Squandered elite education

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:On campus recruiting. It’s a fairly formal process where students drop their resumes and firms fly out teams of people to conduct interviews on campus. (For example, when I was in college, all the banks interviewed over a week or two. So you would see students in class in suits as they had interviews in between classes.)

Top candidates are then flown to the home office for a second round of interviews, typically lasting a day. Successful candidates then get an offer whether it’s for an internship or a Ft job.

In some industries (banking, consulting, law), you have to get the summer internship to get the job. It’s nearly impossible to just interview in your last year as nearly all spots have been filled.

My top school but not ivy did not have this in the 90s. Or if it happened, it wasn't widely publicized. No one wearing suits in class or anything. I don't remember seeing anyone in a suit on my campus in four years.

Then your top school wasn’t top enough for companies to recruit at.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The thread has obviously moved on from OP’s specific situation to a general conversation about what information sharing looked like in the late 90s when it came to the job hunt.

I’m a millennial who will concede that the Internet wasn’t as helpful back in the late 90s. It was immensely helpful to me in the late aughts. But I haven’t seen anyone answer the question of whether or not they noticed tons of kids (juniors in the spring, seniors in the fall) interviewing en masse at all there big employers. Was OCR not a thing in the 90s? Even when I was in school, my top 10 university frequently boasted about how many of its students went to Goldman or JP Morgan, McKinsey or Bain, Harvard Law or Stanford Med. Were they not doing that either in the 90s? Genuinely curious.

Those jobs are all pyramid schemes. For everyone who starts around 10% are there 10 years later...

PP. 100%. And even those that make partner don’t have a guarantee that they’ll have their jobs forever. You build the book or you get cut.

But! Those jobs are great credentials and springboards. I knew several kids who did banking > PE/hedge fund. Or people who did Big Law > in house at a well paying company. That’s why I’m always perplexed when people deride people for taking them because they “only care about money”. Money is a factor no doubt, but those jobs open amazing doors and opportunities. They create a high floor - that’s the real value in doing those jobs for a few years out of school.

Yet another thing UMC student might know, but for someone who had first heard of investment banking AT THE JOB FAIR, probably not on their radar. The only banker I knew gave us a toaster for opening an account.

PP. I was a MC kid of color who learned this freshman/sophomore year attending job fairs and speaking with other students. Again, in the aughts, but the information was there if you were willing to be proactive. (I heard kids in class talking about it and I wasn't even an econ major. That's how pervasive these jobs were at my UG.)

Perhaps it was different in the 90s. I definitely made my fair share of mistakes navigating this UMC world, but this was definitely knowable in the 2000s forward.

+1 that’s what bugs me about the OP and the other people making excuses about not getting enough info and blaming it on not being UMC. The information was there if you were proactive enough to learn. And that’s a good life lesson, opportunities open to those who are hungry and take initiative. I came from a blue collar background, first gen to go to college, and freshman year on campus I was already tuned in to what job opportunities were there just by observing everyone else. I made my fair share of social mistakes but learnt quickly.

[Anonymous]

And for those saying they wanted a comfortable life, not a Gordon gecko life. It wasn’t just investment banking and consulting that came to campus. Blue chip companies like GE or Unilever and other companies with internship programs or rotational programs also came to campus too. You wouldn’t have been Gordon gecko rich starting out with them but it would have been a good start at being comfortable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:On campus recruiting. It’s a fairly formal process where students drop their resumes and firms fly out teams of people to conduct interviews on campus. (For example, when I was in college, all the banks interviewed over a week or two. So you would see students in class in suits as they had interviews in between classes.)

Top candidates are then flown to the home office for a second round of interviews, typically lasting a day. Successful candidates then get an offer whether it’s for an internship or a Ft job.

In some industries (banking, consulting, law), you have to get the summer internship to get the job. It’s nearly impossible to just interview in your last year as nearly all spots have been filled.

My top school but not ivy did not have this in the 90s. Or if it happened, it wasn't widely publicized. No one wearing suits in class or anything. I don't remember seeing anyone in a suit on my campus in four years.

Then your top school wasn’t top enough for companies to recruit at.

Lol you have to wonder how these people can be so willfully obtuse. And then you see them continue repeating the same woe is me saga about how they thought TV was real life.

Like, when watching Gilmore Girls, you did actually think running an inn for someone else would have afforded Lorelei her lifestyle, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The thread has obviously moved on from OP’s specific situation to a general conversation about what information sharing looked like in the late 90s when it came to the job hunt.

I’m a millennial who will concede that the Internet wasn’t as helpful back in the late 90s. It was immensely helpful to me in the late aughts. But I haven’t seen anyone answer the question of whether or not they noticed tons of kids (juniors in the spring, seniors in the fall) interviewing en masse at all there big employers. Was OCR not a thing in the 90s? Even when I was in school, my top 10 university frequently boasted about how many of its students went to Goldman or JP Morgan, McKinsey or Bain, Harvard Law or Stanford Med. Were they not doing that either in the 90s? Genuinely curious.

Those jobs are all pyramid schemes. For everyone who starts around 10% are there 10 years later...

PP. 100%. And even those that make partner don’t have a guarantee that they’ll have their jobs forever. You build the book or you get cut.

But! Those jobs are great credentials and springboards. I knew several kids who did banking > PE/hedge fund. Or people who did Big Law > in house at a well paying company. That’s why I’m always perplexed when people deride people for taking them because they “only care about money”. Money is a factor no doubt, but those jobs open amazing doors and opportunities. They create a high floor - that’s the real value in doing those jobs for a few years out of school.

Yet another thing UMC student might know, but for someone who had first heard of investment banking AT THE JOB FAIR, probably not on their radar. The only banker I knew gave us a toaster for opening an account.

PP. I was a MC kid of color who learned this freshman/sophomore year attending job fairs and speaking with other students. Again, in the aughts, but the information was there if you were willing to be proactive. (I heard kids in class talking about it and I wasn't even an econ major. That's how pervasive these jobs were at my UG.)

Perhaps it was different in the 90s. I definitely made my fair share of mistakes navigating this UMC world, but this was definitely knowable in the 2000s forward.

+1 that’s what bugs me about the OP and the other people making excuses about not getting enough info and blaming it on not being UMC. The information was there if you were proactive enough to learn. And that’s a good life lesson, opportunities open to those who are hungry and take initiative. I came from a blue collar background, first gen to go to college, and freshman year on campus I was already tuned in to what job opportunities were there just by observing everyone else. I made my fair share of social mistakes but learnt quickly.

Pp. Can we start a whole thread on the social mistakes haha? There’s a scene in Hillbilly Elegy where JD Vance panics while at a nice dinner because he doesn’t know how to use a place setting or which wine to pick. I related to that SO HARD. Growing up, you just had a fork and a knife and wine came from a box! I had the internet, so I googled this sort of thing before recruiting dinners but that really brought back memories.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The thread has obviously moved on from OP’s specific situation to a general conversation about what information sharing looked like in the late 90s when it came to the job hunt.

I’m a millennial who will concede that the Internet wasn’t as helpful back in the late 90s. It was immensely helpful to me in the late aughts. But I haven’t seen anyone answer the question of whether or not they noticed tons of kids (juniors in the spring, seniors in the fall) interviewing en masse at all there big employers. Was OCR not a thing in the 90s? Even when I was in school, my top 10 university frequently boasted about how many of its students went to Goldman or JP Morgan, McKinsey or Bain, Harvard Law or Stanford Med. Were they not doing that either in the 90s? Genuinely curious.

Those jobs are all pyramid schemes. For everyone who starts around 10% are there 10 years later...

PP. 100%. And even those that make partner don’t have a guarantee that they’ll have their jobs forever. You build the book or you get cut.

But! Those jobs are great credentials and springboards. I knew several kids who did banking > PE/hedge fund. Or people who did Big Law > in house at a well paying company. That’s why I’m always perplexed when people deride people for taking them because they “only care about money”. Money is a factor no doubt, but those jobs open amazing doors and opportunities. They create a high floor - that’s the real value in doing those jobs for a few years out of school.

Yet another thing UMC student might know, but for someone who had first heard of investment banking AT THE JOB FAIR, probably not on their radar. The only banker I knew gave us a toaster for opening an account.

PP. I was a MC kid of color who learned this freshman/sophomore year attending job fairs and speaking with other students. Again, in the aughts, but the information was there if you were willing to be proactive. (I heard kids in class talking about it and I wasn't even an econ major. That's how pervasive these jobs were at my UG.)

Perhaps it was different in the 90s. I definitely made my fair share of mistakes navigating this UMC world, but this was definitely knowable in the 2000s forward.

+1 that’s what bugs me about the OP and the other people making excuses about not getting enough info and blaming it on not being UMC. The information was there if you were proactive enough to learn. And that’s a good life lesson, opportunities open to those who are hungry and take initiative. I came from a blue collar background, first gen to go to college, and freshman year on campus I was already tuned in to what job opportunities were there just by observing everyone else. I made my fair share of social mistakes but learnt quickly.

I agree. The bootstraps are always there these people didn’t want it enough. I mean growing up I thought having a ton of money made you a waste of a human being because you thought you were better than everyone else and you ended up looking down on others and taking advantage of them. I didn’t think that mentality was doing good in our world. Now I just wish I had decided to on a money making career path so I could make sure I could retire early and who cares about everyone else. It isn’t like I’m really helping anyway. You knew this earlier and are smarter and better than me so I should stop complaining.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The thread has obviously moved on from OP’s specific situation to a general conversation about what information sharing looked like in the late 90s when it came to the job hunt.

I’m a millennial who will concede that the Internet wasn’t as helpful back in the late 90s. It was immensely helpful to me in the late aughts. But I haven’t seen anyone answer the question of whether or not they noticed tons of kids (juniors in the spring, seniors in the fall) interviewing en masse at all there big employers. Was OCR not a thing in the 90s? Even when I was in school, my top 10 university frequently boasted about how many of its students went to Goldman or JP Morgan, McKinsey or Bain, Harvard Law or Stanford Med. Were they not doing that either in the 90s? Genuinely curious.

Those jobs are all pyramid schemes. For everyone who starts around 10% are there 10 years later...

PP. 100%. And even those that make partner don’t have a guarantee that they’ll have their jobs forever. You build the book or you get cut.

But! Those jobs are great credentials and springboards. I knew several kids who did banking > PE/hedge fund. Or people who did Big Law > in house at a well paying company. That’s why I’m always perplexed when people deride people for taking them because they “only care about money”. Money is a factor no doubt, but those jobs open amazing doors and opportunities. They create a high floor - that’s the real value in doing those jobs for a few years out of school.

Yet another thing UMC student might know, but for someone who had first heard of investment banking AT THE JOB FAIR, probably not on their radar. The only banker I knew gave us a toaster for opening an account.

PP. I was a MC kid of color who learned this freshman/sophomore year attending job fairs and speaking with other students. Again, in the aughts, but the information was there if you were willing to be proactive. (I heard kids in class talking about it and I wasn't even an econ major. That's how pervasive these jobs were at my UG.)

Perhaps it was different in the 90s. I definitely made my fair share of mistakes navigating this UMC world, but this was definitely knowable in the 2000s forward.

+1 that’s what bugs me about the OP and the other people making excuses about not getting enough info and blaming it on not being UMC. The information was there if you were proactive enough to learn. And that’s a good life lesson, opportunities open to those who are hungry and take initiative. I came from a blue collar background, first gen to go to college, and freshman year on campus I was already tuned in to what job opportunities were there just by observing everyone else. I made my fair share of social mistakes but learnt quickly.

I agree. The bootstraps are always there these people didn’t want it enough. I mean growing up I thought having a ton of money made you a waste of a human being because you thought you were better than everyone else and you ended up looking down on others and taking advantage of them. I didn’t think that mentality was doing good in our world. Now I just wish I had decided to on a money making career path so I could make sure I could retire early and who cares about everyone else. It isn’t like I’m really helping anyway. You knew this earlier and are smarter and better than me so I should stop complaining.

Nice done, subtle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder if OP attended a school that was not super pre-professional? I was a MC kid who went to a top 10 in the late aughts. Agreed that the internet became a HUGE resource at the turn of the century and I buy that getting this information would have required some - but not exhaustive - effort to obtain via visiting the career center etc in the late 90s. But even if I hadn't had the internet around, I was in clubs and classes where affluent students talked about finance/consulting/the path to professional school. I saw students walking around on campus in suits every winter/spring. It was just really hard to miss.

Maybe OP went to a school where most of the class wasn't that interested in Goldman/McKinsey/Harvard Law? And there was a huge emphasis on more do-gooder work? I could see that being the vibe at Brown or a SLAC.

Also OP, I wouldn't let DCUM convince you that everyone who goes to an elite school earns $500K+. I'm a late 30s HYS grad making $225K in house after several years in Big Law. Hoping to make the leap to $300K+ in a few years when my kids are older. My former classmates making $500K are in big law. Even the in house lawyers aren't really there yet. If I had to guess, I would say most of my class, including public interest, are $100-300k range, again outside of Big Law. My friends who went to more normal schools are probably $50k-150k. So I wouldn't agree that anyone with a college degree, moderate effort, and a pulse makes $200k easy. It's a lot harder than that.

I’m sorry but I make a little more than $200k and I’m in my early thirties. It wasn’t that hard at all.

Would love to hear your journey from LMC roots to a high paying career. What field/job?

$200k is not a "high paying career". It's pretty standard pay for your 30s so long as you have a college degree and aimed for jobs with higher comp vs lower comp. Like, did you do a marketing or museum internship during college? Or did you look for a data analyst summer job for a middle of the road company? the latter jobs weren't any more competitive than the former out of college, though a little less glamorous.

$200,000 puts you in the top 5% of earners in the US. Possibly higher if your comparing yourself with other POC, other women, or even other people in their 30s. Who exactly is this “standard” for, PP?

+1 this is double the median for people with advanced degrees in the DC area.

If you are a family making $250k with two earners (each $125k) you are making twice the area median income, yet on DCUM people make it sound like you are poor. Yes, you can have a fine life on that amount of money. You probably can't afford to live in Bethesda though.

[Anonymous]

Literally not a single person from the NINETIES has said that this information was widely available to them as a non-UMC person on campus.

We have heard from rich people who said in the 90s they knew this info. And we have heard from non-rich people saying that they knew this info in the aughts.

But no one has said that they were non-rich in the 90s and thought this info was readily available.

But lots of non-rich people saying they were not aware of this info in the 90s.

So all the people talking about their aughts experiences are totally not relevant to this original question.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Literally not a single person from the NINETIES has said that this information was widely available to them as a non-UMC person on campus.

We have heard from rich people who said in the 90s they knew this info. And we have heard from non-rich people saying that they knew this info in the aughts.

But no one has said that they were non-rich in the 90s and thought this info was readily available.

But lots of non-rich people saying they were not aware of this info in the 90s.

So all the people talking about their aughts experiences are totally not relevant to this original question.

And non of those people in the 90s have answered why they weren’t aware of on campus recruiting. It’s hard to avoid OCR season even without the internet. . Because it was there and they just didn’t take advantage of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Literally not a single person from the NINETIES has said that this information was widely available to them as a non-UMC person on campus.

We have heard from rich people who said in the 90s they knew this info. And we have heard from non-rich people saying that they knew this info in the aughts.

But no one has said that they were non-rich in the 90s and thought this info was readily available.

But lots of non-rich people saying they were not aware of this info in the 90s.

So all the people talking about their aughts experiences are totally not relevant to this original question.

And non of those people in the 90s have answered why they weren’t aware of on campus recruiting. It’s hard to avoid OCR season even without the internet. . Because it was there and they just didn’t take advantage of it.

PP millennial, and this was precisely my question. I don’t think for a second that poor people can just bookstrap their way out of poverty - it’s far more complicated than that. But as I said earlier, I’m curious how people who were savvy enough to get to the Ivy + missed OCR altogether since it was such a huge event on campus. (I totally buy that the internet wasn’t a real resource in the 90s. It’s a moot point to me.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Literally not a single person from the NINETIES has said that this information was widely available to them as a non-UMC person on campus.

We have heard from rich people who said in the 90s they knew this info. And we have heard from non-rich people saying that they knew this info in the aughts.

But no one has said that they were non-rich in the 90s and thought this info was readily available.

But lots of non-rich people saying they were not aware of this info in the 90s.

So all the people talking about their aughts experiences are totally not relevant to this original question.

And non of those people in the 90s have answered why they weren’t aware of on campus recruiting. It’s hard to avoid OCR season even without the internet. . Because it was there and they just didn’t take advantage of it.

PP millennial, and this was precisely my question. I don’t think for a second that poor people can just bookstrap their way out of poverty - it’s far more complicated than that. But as I said earlier, I’m curious how people who were savvy enough to get to the Ivy + missed OCR altogether since it was such a huge event on campus. (I totally buy that the internet wasn’t a real resource in the 90s. It’s a moot point to me.)

I think this whole debate about availability of information is a bit silly. It's obvious the information is there and available and was in the 90s too. I think many of us simply didn't think or care to think about what level of compensation we needed for the lifestyle we wanted. We assumed if we got an education in something we were passionate about, we'd be fine. I mean I knew about i-banking, I heard about it a ton and among my friends it seemed to be obviously the wrong path because it'd require working 80 hours per week and none of us wanted that, money be darned.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Literally not a single person from the NINETIES has said that this information was widely available to them as a non-UMC person on campus.

We have heard from rich people who said in the 90s they knew this info. And we have heard from non-rich people saying that they knew this info in the aughts.

But no one has said that they were non-rich in the 90s and thought this info was readily available.

But lots of non-rich people saying they were not aware of this info in the 90s.

So all the people talking about their aughts experiences are totally not relevant to this original question.

And non of those people in the 90s have answered why they weren’t aware of on campus recruiting. It’s hard to avoid OCR season even without the internet. . Because it was there and they just didn’t take advantage of it.

PP millennial, and this was precisely my question. I don’t think for a second that poor people can just bookstrap their way out of poverty - it’s far more complicated than that. But as I said earlier, I’m curious how people who were savvy enough to get to the Ivy + missed OCR altogether since it was such a huge event on campus. (I totally buy that the internet wasn’t a real resource in the 90s. It’s a moot point to me.)

I think this whole debate about availability of information is a bit silly. It's obvious the information is there and available and was in the 90s too. I think many of us simply didn't think or care to think about what level of compensation we needed for the lifestyle we wanted. We assumed if we got an education in something we were passionate about, we'd be fine. I mean I knew about i-banking, I heard about it a ton and among my friends it seemed to be obviously the wrong path because it'd require working 80 hours per week and none of us wanted that, money be darned.

Yes but the lack of information due to the internet has been used as the main excuse why the students in the 90s weren’t aware of what was available that could have opened doors for them. Again, excuse after excuse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Literally not a single person from the NINETIES has said that this information was widely available to them as a non-UMC person on campus.

We have heard from rich people who said in the 90s they knew this info. And we have heard from non-rich people saying that they knew this info in the aughts.

But no one has said that they were non-rich in the 90s and thought this info was readily available.

But lots of non-rich people saying they were not aware of this info in the 90s.

So all the people talking about their aughts experiences are totally not relevant to this original question.

NP. DH and I are both from non-wealthy immigrant families, graduated HYPSM in the late 90s, and our first jobs were in BB and MBB, respectively. Neither of us had ever heard of investment banking or management consulting before college, but took full advantage of on-campus recruiting. The career center was our “internet.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Literally not a single person from the NINETIES has said that this information was widely available to them as a non-UMC person on campus.

We have heard from rich people who said in the 90s they knew this info. And we have heard from non-rich people saying that they knew this info in the aughts.

But no one has said that they were non-rich in the 90s and thought this info was readily available.

But lots of non-rich people saying they were not aware of this info in the 90s.

So all the people talking about their aughts experiences are totally not relevant to this original question.

NP. DH and I are both from non-wealthy immigrant families, graduated HYPSM in the late 90s, and our first jobs were in BB and MBB, respectively. Neither of us had ever heard of investment banking or management consulting before college, but took full advantage of on-campus recruiting. The career center was our “internet.”

It’s likely as an immigrant family you grew up an urban metro and were already aware of the cost of a UMC lifestyle, and looked for a career prioritizing income.

Did your career center really discuss salary potential for various careers in concrete numbers? We’re you at Stanford, they are much more business school lite and I think more open about salaries and money in general from my experience