Possible to bounce back from a PIP?

[Anonymous]

My younger sister recently received a PIP at work. She told me what the PIP says, and it seems pretty standard; it outlines a series of steps she must take with a timeline for improvement. I think she needs to get her resume together and start looking for another job asap, but she is determined to meet the PIP's goals and make a turnaround. Can people ever come back from PIPs in the eyes of management - not only keeping their jobs, but progressing to the next level? She currently works as a staff level in an accounting/consulting firm where most people have the goal of at least making mid-manager.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My younger sister recently received a PIP at work. She told me what the PIP says, and it seems pretty standard; it outlines a series of steps she must take with a timeline for improvement. I think she needs to get her resume together and start looking for another job asap, but she is determined to meet the PIP's goals and make a turnaround. Can people ever come back from PIPs in the eyes of management - not only keeping their jobs, but progressing to the next level? She currently works as a staff level in an accounting/consulting firm where most people have the goal of at least making mid-manager.

At my firm a PIP is not a kiss of death, but I'd venture the success rate of getting off it is perhaps 20%. It depends so much on the manager and who is pushing for it. Firms differ but my advice is:

Have her set up weekly check-ins for progress
Look for a mentor who is not her manager
Find a peer who is willing to mentor unoficially / provide real time feedback after meetings
Get the plan "in writing"
At our firm, working longer hours is a detriment - instead of kudos it's interpreted as taking longer to do the same amount of work

[Anonymous]

Forgot something....I would also add that when someone at our firm ends up on a PIP and they come to me for help, I always make the blunt point that - 1. Your odds of success are low, 2. Even if successful it would be exceptionally rare that someone goes from a PIP to "fast track" - at best they skate by another year or two, get frustrated and leave anyway. My usual advice is thus to try to get of the PIP because that's a good idea as a risk mgmt strategy but to absolutely begin looking outside. It's not only a good risk strategy but also a good idea because finding a job when you have a job is easier - and a lot easier than explaining you were let go for performance issues.

Sorry for long ramble, am a little drunk.

[Anonymous]

In the federal government, it's relatively easy to meet the goals of a PIP, in my opinion. A person on a PIP only has to come up to "Minimally Successful." You do not have to get to Outstanding or Excellent or even Fully Successful. But you do have to satisfy the PIP or you will be removed. So she needs to show that she has met each and every goal.

[Anonymous]

It's not one or the other. She should polish her resume and start looking elsewhere, AND work to meet the goals of the pip

[Anonymous]

In my Fed office, it's the first step in getting rid of slackers, warm bodies, and retirees in place.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In the federal government, it's relatively easy to meet the goals of a PIP, in my opinion. A person on a PIP only has to come up to "Minimally Successful." You do not have to get to Outstanding or Excellent or even Fully Successful. But you do have to satisfy the PIP or you will be removed. So she needs to show that she has met each and every goal.

In my Fed office, you have to be "Successful". "Minimally Successful" gets your PIP extended or the "fast" track to termination/resignation in lieu of termination. Especially in the current environment.

[Anonymous]

I work for a corporation. Our ex-coworker was put on PIP, did all he could to improve his performance and was told that he is making a good progress. However, a couple months later he was let go.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In the federal government, it's relatively easy to meet the goals of a PIP, in my opinion. A person on a PIP only has to come up to "Minimally Successful." You do not have to get to Outstanding or Excellent or even Fully Successful. But you do have to satisfy the PIP or you will be removed. So she needs to show that she has met each and every goal.

In my Fed office, you have to be "Successful". "Minimally Successful" gets your PIP extended or the "fast" track to termination/resignation in lieu of termination. Especially in the current environment.

That's actually illegal.

[Anonymous]

It's done legally, but that's what it is.

Prior to budget cuts, people had the opportunity to look for other positions internally that were a better fit.

[Anonymous]

I have no idea hat e actual success rate is at my company, but I did it. Granted, I think a good bit of that was due to HR recognizing that I had a vindictive, irrational manager with a personality issue more than a performance issue with me. He absolutely wanted me to quit rather than fight it, but I'd be damned if I gave him the pleasure. I (easily) exceeded every single term of the plan, passed with flying colors by HR and grudging acceptance by my manager. Went on to work there another 8 months before transferring, though I'd have left sooner if something had come up. I still wish I'd fought the actual plan to begin with, or at least written a formal response for my file, but it wa enough that I succeeded so strongly. My new position was step up in a completely different division if the org, and they asked about the PIP in the final interview, but I was able o offer a satisfactory explanation without bashing my former boss.

So, my advice would be to a) write a detail formal response for her file if she feels the PIP is genuinely not warranted, b) follow the plan to the letter, exceeding where possible, and c) still polish the resume/look for an exit. Note that if its an internal transfer like mine, FAR better to finish the PIP successfully before applying, as transfer positions will likely gain access to your employment file at some point in the hiring process (in my case, it was when they told HR they wanted me and made a last review of my file before an offer).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I work for a corporation. Our ex-coworker was put on PIP, did all he could to improve his performance and was told that he is making a good progress. However, a couple months later he was let go.

This happened to me in the non-profit world recently. I'm thinking they knew reductions were in the future, so why not start in this "justified" way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have no idea hat e actual success rate is at my company, but I did it. Granted, I think a good bit of that was due to HR recognizing that I had a vindictive, irrational manager with a personality issue more than a performance issue with me. He absolutely wanted me to quit rather than fight it, but I'd be damned if I gave him the pleasure. I (easily) exceeded every single term of the plan, passed with flying colors by HR and grudging acceptance by my manager. Went on to work there another 8 months before transferring, though I'd have left sooner if something had come up. I still wish I'd fought the actual plan to begin with, or at least written a formal response for my file, but it wa enough that I succeeded so strongly. My new position was step up in a completely different division if the org, and they asked about the PIP in the final interview, but I was able o offer a satisfactory explanation without bashing my former boss.

So, my advice would be to a) write a detail formal response for her file if she feels the PIP is genuinely not warranted, b) follow the plan to the letter, exceeding where possible, and c) still polish the resume/look for an exit. Note that if its an internal transfer like mine, FAR better to finish the PIP successfully before applying, as transfer positions will likely gain access to your employment file at some point in the hiring process (in my case, it was when they told HR they wanted me and made a last review of my file before an offer).

Can you share what you said to explain your PIP status without bashing your ex-boss?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have no idea hat e actual success rate is at my company, but I did it. Granted, I think a good bit of that was due to HR recognizing that I had a vindictive, irrational manager with a personality issue more than a performance issue with me. He absolutely wanted me to quit rather than fight it, but I'd be damned if I gave him the pleasure. I (easily) exceeded every single term of the plan, passed with flying colors by HR and grudging acceptance by my manager. Went on to work there another 8 months before transferring, though I'd have left sooner if something had come up. I still wish I'd fought the actual plan to begin with, or at least written a formal response for my file, but it wa enough that I succeeded so strongly. My new position was step up in a completely different division if the org, and they asked about the PIP in the final interview, but I was able o offer a satisfactory explanation without bashing my former boss.

So, my advice would be to a) write a detail formal response for her file if she feels the PIP is genuinely not warranted, b) follow the plan to the letter, exceeding where possible, and c) still polish the resume/look for an exit. Note that if its an internal transfer like mine, FAR better to finish the PIP successfully before applying, as transfer positions will likely gain access to your employment file at some point in the hiring process (in my case, it was when they told HR they wanted me and made a last review of my file before an offer).

Can you share what you said to explain your PIP status without bashing your ex-boss?

Np but I'd go with a general statement to the effect of the role being an improper fit with your skills, citing one or two simple examples, and move on. "My background is primarily in analytic finance, not operational design. They were really in need of someone with a six sigma type background; not someone with strong finance and general mgnt skills."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have no idea hat e actual success rate is at my company, but I did it. Granted, I think a good bit of that was due to HR recognizing that I had a vindictive, irrational manager with a personality issue more than a performance issue with me. He absolutely wanted me to quit rather than fight it, but I'd be damned if I gave him the pleasure. I (easily) exceeded every single term of the plan, passed with flying colors by HR and grudging acceptance by my manager. Went on to work there another 8 months before transferring, though I'd have left sooner if something had come up. I still wish I'd fought the actual plan to begin with, or at least written a formal response for my file, but it wa enough that I succeeded so strongly. My new position was step up in a completely different division if the org, and they asked about the PIP in the final interview, but I was able o offer a satisfactory explanation without bashing my former boss.

So, my advice would be to a) write a detail formal response for her file if she feels the PIP is genuinely not warranted, b) follow the plan to the letter, exceeding where possible, and c) still polish the resume/look for an exit. Note that if its an internal transfer like mine, FAR better to finish the PIP successfully before applying, as transfer positions will likely gain access to your employment file at some point in the hiring process (in my case, it was when they told HR they wanted me and made a last review of my file before an offer).

Can you share what you said to explain your PIP status without bashing your ex-boss?

It was several years ago so I don't remember exactly, but I think it was something like honestly accepting responsibility for a small drop in my productivity/concentration combined with some personality differences with my manager, and that I thought the PIP was exaggerated/unnecessary but stressed that, as clearly noted in myHR records, I exceeded all the terms of the agreement and went on to get a great report in my next review by that same manager.