Anonymous wrote:I'm interested in this topic because I will be at WDW a few days after this May 20 change. And I'm wondering what impact there will be so soon after. I'm not sure I understand what's happening. Will it only affect people trying to register for DAS after that date? Presumably other visitors will have already applied using the only rules. Will this lead to a massive increase in demand for Genie+ and will it be harder to purchase the day of and will it be even harder to book any LL? If it's going to be hard to access and use not sure if it's worth it to buy in advance.
That's my question too. Disney is deciding that the system is broken from their perspective, which they can do as long as the parks are ADA-compliant. The current DAS program goes well beyond what is required under the ADA, and people with a wide range of disabilities appreciated that Disney granted them accommodations and have come to expect to be approved for DAS. As a business decision, Disney is scaling back the circumstances under which DAS can be granted, and it will have an impact on those who were outright cheating the system, those who exaggerated their actual conditions, and those who legitimately struggle to access the parks due to a disability. Again, it's a business decision for Disney as long the are not in violation of the ADA. The ADA requires a reasonable accommodation, and regardless of the actual number of DAS holders using LLs, the current system arguably provides a better experience for disabled guests than is available for non-disabled guests, which suggests that the current system may not be reasonable for Disney, whether that is because it creates longer LL lines, standby lines, or hurts their bottom line because fewer people purchase Genie +.
As others have noted, those who are faking conditions or exaggerating to get DAS are the most likely to be heavy users of the LL because they are more likely to spend full days at the parks and be able to cover the most ground. Realistically, many, if not most people who were approved for DAS with actual disabilities that interfere with their ability to stand in long lines aren't the ones who are there from rope drop to close, cris-crossing the park repeatedly to ride as many rides as possible. The hostility exhibited toward those who have used DAS in the past or who plan to in the future seems based on an understanding that everyone asking for DAS is doing it to gain an advantage over non-DAS users without any regard to the challenges their disabilities pose.
But back to your question, from a guest perspective, the anti-DAS people are also assuming that reducing the number of people being granted DAS and reducing the size of their parties will have a positive impact on their experience. The changes should reduce the number of DAS guests in the LLs, with fewer being granted DAS and their party size more limited. However, if Disney's intention or the result of the change is to force more people purchase Genie +, the changes could actually make Genie + an even worse value, with more guests trying to select rides and few popular attractions available at desirable times. I guess part of the answer depends on the extent to which Disney plans for DAS users in LLs by limiting the capacity for Genie + purchasers. IF half the people who formerly used DAS now buy Genie + and another chunk of the population are now in the standby lines (perhaps those who exaggerated conditions and are able to wait in long lines), how is that going to improve the guest experience for everyone else?
There is certainly a lot of imagination at work in this post!
PP who asked about the changes-I recommend that you go to the DISBOARDS and read in the disABILITIES section. The mods there have actual facts about the changes.
I'm only curious about the changes such that they will alter my own plans, as a non DAS user. Should I get Genie+ or not? Will it be overwhelmed making it impossible to use enough to get the value? Will there be any impact to wait times? My trip is a few days after May 20. I was planning to get Genie+ but now I'm not sure.
Anonymous wrote:I'm interested in this topic because I will be at WDW a few days after this May 20 change. And I'm wondering what impact there will be so soon after. I'm not sure I understand what's happening. Will it only affect people trying to register for DAS after that date? Presumably other visitors will have already applied using the only rules. Will this lead to a massive increase in demand for Genie+ and will it be harder to purchase the day of and will it be even harder to book any LL? If it's going to be hard to access and use not sure if it's worth it to buy in advance.
That's my question too. Disney is deciding that the system is broken from their perspective, which they can do as long as the parks are ADA-compliant. The current DAS program goes well beyond what is required under the ADA, and people with a wide range of disabilities appreciated that Disney granted them accommodations and have come to expect to be approved for DAS. As a business decision, Disney is scaling back the circumstances under which DAS can be granted, and it will have an impact on those who were outright cheating the system, those who exaggerated their actual conditions, and those who legitimately struggle to access the parks due to a disability. Again, it's a business decision for Disney as long the are not in violation of the ADA. The ADA requires a reasonable accommodation, and regardless of the actual number of DAS holders using LLs, the current system arguably provides a better experience for disabled guests than is available for non-disabled guests, which suggests that the current system may not be reasonable for Disney, whether that is because it creates longer LL lines, standby lines, or hurts their bottom line because fewer people purchase Genie +.
As others have noted, those who are faking conditions or exaggerating to get DAS are the most likely to be heavy users of the LL because they are more likely to spend full days at the parks and be able to cover the most ground. Realistically, many, if not most people who were approved for DAS with actual disabilities that interfere with their ability to stand in long lines aren't the ones who are there from rope drop to close, cris-crossing the park repeatedly to ride as many rides as possible. The hostility exhibited toward those who have used DAS in the past or who plan to in the future seems based on an understanding that everyone asking for DAS is doing it to gain an advantage over non-DAS users without any regard to the challenges their disabilities pose.
But back to your question, from a guest perspective, the anti-DAS people are also assuming that reducing the number of people being granted DAS and reducing the size of their parties will have a positive impact on their experience. The changes should reduce the number of DAS guests in the LLs, with fewer being granted DAS and their party size more limited. However, if Disney's intention or the result of the change is to force more people purchase Genie +, the changes could actually make Genie + an even worse value, with more guests trying to select rides and few popular attractions available at desirable times. I guess part of the answer depends on the extent to which Disney plans for DAS users in LLs by limiting the capacity for Genie + purchasers. IF half the people who formerly used DAS now buy Genie + and another chunk of the population are now in the standby lines (perhaps those who exaggerated conditions and are able to wait in long lines), how is that going to improve the guest experience for everyone else?
There is certainly a lot of imagination at work in this post!
PP who asked about the changes-I recommend that you go to the DISBOARDS and read in the disABILITIES section. The mods there have actual facts about the changes.
Haha. That thread has 4k posts. I have better things to do.
DP. I've looked at it and I don't see many answers.
Anonymous wrote:I'm interested in this topic because I will be at WDW a few days after this May 20 change. And I'm wondering what impact there will be so soon after. I'm not sure I understand what's happening. Will it only affect people trying to register for DAS after that date? Presumably other visitors will have already applied using the only rules. Will this lead to a massive increase in demand for Genie+ and will it be harder to purchase the day of and will it be even harder to book any LL? If it's going to be hard to access and use not sure if it's worth it to buy in advance.
That's my question too. Disney is deciding that the system is broken from their perspective, which they can do as long as the parks are ADA-compliant. The current DAS program goes well beyond what is required under the ADA, and people with a wide range of disabilities appreciated that Disney granted them accommodations and have come to expect to be approved for DAS. As a business decision, Disney is scaling back the circumstances under which DAS can be granted, and it will have an impact on those who were outright cheating the system, those who exaggerated their actual conditions, and those who legitimately struggle to access the parks due to a disability. Again, it's a business decision for Disney as long the are not in violation of the ADA. The ADA requires a reasonable accommodation, and regardless of the actual number of DAS holders using LLs, the current system arguably provides a better experience for disabled guests than is available for non-disabled guests, which suggests that the current system may not be reasonable for Disney, whether that is because it creates longer LL lines, standby lines, or hurts their bottom line because fewer people purchase Genie +.
As others have noted, those who are faking conditions or exaggerating to get DAS are the most likely to be heavy users of the LL because they are more likely to spend full days at the parks and be able to cover the most ground. Realistically, many, if not most people who were approved for DAS with actual disabilities that interfere with their ability to stand in long lines aren't the ones who are there from rope drop to close, cris-crossing the park repeatedly to ride as many rides as possible. The hostility exhibited toward those who have used DAS in the past or who plan to in the future seems based on an understanding that everyone asking for DAS is doing it to gain an advantage over non-DAS users without any regard to the challenges their disabilities pose.
But back to your question, from a guest perspective, the anti-DAS people are also assuming that reducing the number of people being granted DAS and reducing the size of their parties will have a positive impact on their experience. The changes should reduce the number of DAS guests in the LLs, with fewer being granted DAS and their party size more limited. However, if Disney's intention or the result of the change is to force more people purchase Genie +, the changes could actually make Genie + an even worse value, with more guests trying to select rides and few popular attractions available at desirable times. I guess part of the answer depends on the extent to which Disney plans for DAS users in LLs by limiting the capacity for Genie + purchasers. IF half the people who formerly used DAS now buy Genie + and another chunk of the population are now in the standby lines (perhaps those who exaggerated conditions and are able to wait in long lines), how is that going to improve the guest experience for everyone else?
There is certainly a lot of imagination at work in this post!
PP who asked about the changes-I recommend that you go to the DISBOARDS and read in the disABILITIES section. The mods there have actual facts about the changes.
Haha. That thread has 4k posts. I have better things to do.
Look at this thread-it's second from top, pinned and locked and updated regularly. It's one post. You don't need to wade through the open forum posts.
WDW DAS changes starting May 20, 2024 & Disneyland June 18, 2024
Anonymous wrote:I'm interested in this topic because I will be at WDW a few days after this May 20 change. And I'm wondering what impact there will be so soon after. I'm not sure I understand what's happening. Will it only affect people trying to register for DAS after that date? Presumably other visitors will have already applied using the only rules. Will this lead to a massive increase in demand for Genie+ and will it be harder to purchase the day of and will it be even harder to book any LL? If it's going to be hard to access and use not sure if it's worth it to buy in advance.
That's my question too. Disney is deciding that the system is broken from their perspective, which they can do as long as the parks are ADA-compliant. The current DAS program goes well beyond what is required under the ADA, and people with a wide range of disabilities appreciated that Disney granted them accommodations and have come to expect to be approved for DAS. As a business decision, Disney is scaling back the circumstances under which DAS can be granted, and it will have an impact on those who were outright cheating the system, those who exaggerated their actual conditions, and those who legitimately struggle to access the parks due to a disability. Again, it's a business decision for Disney as long the are not in violation of the ADA. The ADA requires a reasonable accommodation, and regardless of the actual number of DAS holders using LLs, the current system arguably provides a better experience for disabled guests than is available for non-disabled guests, which suggests that the current system may not be reasonable for Disney, whether that is because it creates longer LL lines, standby lines, or hurts their bottom line because fewer people purchase Genie +.
As others have noted, those who are faking conditions or exaggerating to get DAS are the most likely to be heavy users of the LL because they are more likely to spend full days at the parks and be able to cover the most ground. Realistically, many, if not most people who were approved for DAS with actual disabilities that interfere with their ability to stand in long lines aren't the ones who are there from rope drop to close, cris-crossing the park repeatedly to ride as many rides as possible. The hostility exhibited toward those who have used DAS in the past or who plan to in the future seems based on an understanding that everyone asking for DAS is doing it to gain an advantage over non-DAS users without any regard to the challenges their disabilities pose.
But back to your question, from a guest perspective, the anti-DAS people are also assuming that reducing the number of people being granted DAS and reducing the size of their parties will have a positive impact on their experience. The changes should reduce the number of DAS guests in the LLs, with fewer being granted DAS and their party size more limited. However, if Disney's intention or the result of the change is to force more people purchase Genie +, the changes could actually make Genie + an even worse value, with more guests trying to select rides and few popular attractions available at desirable times. I guess part of the answer depends on the extent to which Disney plans for DAS users in LLs by limiting the capacity for Genie + purchasers. IF half the people who formerly used DAS now buy Genie + and another chunk of the population are now in the standby lines (perhaps those who exaggerated conditions and are able to wait in long lines), how is that going to improve the guest experience for everyone else?
There is certainly a lot of imagination at work in this post!
PP who asked about the changes-I recommend that you go to the DISBOARDS and read in the disABILITIES section. The mods there have actual facts about the changes.
I'm only curious about the changes such that they will alter my own plans, as a non DAS user. Should I get Genie+ or not? Will it be overwhelmed making it impossible to use enough to get the value? Will there be any impact to wait times? My trip is a few days after May 20. I was planning to get Genie+ but now I'm not sure.
If you look at the pinned post the PP posted about, it doesn't appear that Genie+ would be impacted. What Disney did say was that Disney Genie (the free one) may be suggested as a way for people who do not qualify for DAS to enjoy more of the magic.
I would continue to plan your trip in the way you were going to, after doing your own planning and research.
Anonymous wrote:People really took advantage of the DAS program. I don’t blame Disney for changing it.
I do. People taking advantage of it is no reason to completely take away DAS from physically disabled people. It’s crazy to me that someone with like cerebral palsy or cancer or MS or whatever can’t use this service anymore because they don’t also have autism.
It doesn't sound like the new policy removes all access to physical disabilities. DAS is just excluding people whose issues can be solved with a pass to leave the line and return or a mobility device (e.g., scooter or wheelchair) so they don't have to stand.
Part of the problem is forcing people to use mobility devices when they don't need them under normal circumstances. I've seen several stories about amputees who are perfectly "mobile" but who have difficulty waiting in long lines, especially in heat, as the day progresses because their prosthesis becomes less comfortable and more painful being denied DAS because they could just get a wheelchair. That seems wrong to me.
NP What?! Someone upthread told me that if my toddler can't wait in 30-60 minute lines I shouldn't go to Disney either.
They can get a scooter. There is nothing “wrong” about that.
Huh. You don't think someone with a genuine physical disability that causes significant pain deserves some accommodation? By the way, ECVs cost $65 per day to rent, but I guess those slacker amputees should just deal.
If they’re walking around a park all day on a prosthesis, there’s no reason they can’t stand in line with the same prosthesis. Or sit on the chair/cane. Or lean on the ropes like the rest of us. If they can’t walk around the park all day and can’t stand in line at all, they get a scooter or a wheelchair.
Quit playing the victim here. There are options. You just don’t like them.
NP. By that logic, people with zero physical disabilities who have autism can also just stand in line for hours.
I don’t think that’s true. If an autistic kid can’t stand in line for an hour they may act out or scream or get physical or cause a disturbance to others waiting in line. It’s a completely different scenario.
This. My kid has to eat in a lunch bunch because he cannot even handle the noise and commotion of the cafeteria at school. If he gets overstimulated/dysregulated he may throw himself on the ground and kick. That doesn’t happen often thankfully, but it does on occasion.
In order for our family to go to Disney, we had to pick a less crowded time, select a few must do rides, and basically have a straight forward itinerary to avoid crossing all over the park and having downtime built in. We bought Genie + in conjunction to using DAS and were able to minimize crowd/line time, take meal breaks while waiting for our return time, and get in and out of the park in a shorter time.
I know people pay a lot of money to go to Disney and I appreciate not having to risk a) my kid losing it 80 minutes into a 90 minute wait and then having to give up on the ride and b) disturbing other guests if my kid flails and is upset.
Why are you taking a kid who can't cope in crowded places to Disney? Goodness. Choose a different vacation.
What’s wrong with you? Disney makes an effort to be inclusive. Kids with disabilities deserve to experience the magic of seeing their favorite characters come to life. My son also needed to eat in a lunch bunch during camp, where he gets dysregulated, but loves Disney world. He was obsessed with Toy Story the first time we went, and the castle. He was mesmerized by the fireworks. And all the entertainment was great for his adhd needs - we just have to know when to take breaks from all the stimulation, which we can do in our small family setting. We modify our vacation to meet his needs, but I can’t imagine having him miss out on Disney altogether. I’ve seen autistic people waiting in lines for cosmic rewind, wearing sensory friendly headphones. This is such a spectacularly out of touch comment.
NP What?! Someone upthread told me that if my toddler can't wait in 30-60 minute lines I shouldn't go to Disney either. Don't all kids deserve the magic of Disney? Their lines are untenable for all.
Yes, if you don’t want to wait in long lines you pay for genie+. The same way you pay for premium economy on an airplane. It’s a different than children with disabilities.
We did pay for genie+... the lightning lanes are still 20-30 min long and then you have to wait in other long lines between your genie + rides.
And if your toddler cannot handle that then they cannot handle Disney.
Not really, you can call that ADHD, autism, or anxiety and boom, get a DAS pass. It's apparently very easy. What you can't do is rent a scooter anymore and have it be a disability that qualifies. You don't need a doctor's note or diagnosis to qualify you just have to register for the process and have a video chat.
Also, this is lying. I would never lie about my child’s condition. I am completely honest with Disney about his conditions and behaviors, and they can tell me if that qualifies or not. Shame on people who lie.
And one more point- I wish my son didn’t have the difficulties that make him eligible for a DAS pass. One accommodation on a five day trip to Disney world does not make up for how much harder he needs to work on a daily basis to function in his everyday life. It does not compensate for the impact it has on our family and other child. I wish people understood this and had empathy for families of children with special needs.
This! People are upset over a child with disabilities getting a perceived “perk” over their family. But I’m willing to bet they wouldn’t trade places if they realized the trade offs this accommodation comes with. Want to drop 5k on a neuropsych, out of pocket therapies, calls from the school, IEP meetings, etc. Like my goodness, let the families of special needs kids have something to help them so they can take their neurodiverse child (and siblings growing up with a special needs family member) on a somewhat normal vacation.
What is next, is the PP going to be upset that amputees get to park closer to the store? That is an unfair advantage while others have to walk farther back in the lot. I mean maybe my feet are hurting too that day, so why should the person with a prosthetic get special treatment. Perhaps they should just stay home and order online groceries instead.
(Obviously this last paragraph is sarcasm).
Umm no one is complaining over people with REAL disabilities getting DAS. There were whole websites that told you how to fake DAS. Lots of blog posts and facebook groups too.
No there was absolutely a poster I was referring to (hopefully only one, but maybe more) saying kids with developmental disabilities shouldn’t be going on Disney vacations and that every kid under 10 could benefit from not waiting in line so why should these kids get a benefit.
As a person who a kid who has SNs and cannot cram in a gazillion rides from sun up to sun down, I’d be fine with a cap or limits on popular rides. I’m just disgusted by certain people saying disabled kids should basically not go at all.
Your reading comprehension is terrible. The statement was that Disney isn't a good vacation choice for a kid who is made upset by noise, crowds and stimulation. DAS doesn't remove those aspects. Disney is still noisy, crowded and over stimulating.
And DAS provides accommodations to help those kid still get to enjoy the magic of a Disney vacation. My son can get dysregulated in certain situations, so we don’t push him to the brink. We make a reasonable ride schedule (he does love the rides). He loves interacting with the characters. We book meal reservations in advance (buffets are great b/c there is no wait and lots of food options for picky eaters). There are multiple pools at many resorts so you can pick a quieter pool to go back and relax at. We also stay on property so we’re close by if we want to take breaks back at your room.
So who are you to say kids like mine can’t have a good vacation at Disney? DAS along with other planning measures on our family’s part allow him to enjoy a family vacation, better in some ways than traveling to places are that less self contained and curated for families.
I am sure there is abuse. I’ll trust Disney’s statistics on it and am fine with a paperwork process since we can easily provide that. But to say DAS doesn’t help with developmental disabilities and that it’s not a good vacation for them is just ignorant of how amazing Disney really is for families including kids with SNs.
You are making a lot of assumptions and drawing conclusions that I never said. Go ahead and keep debating with yourself, because I didn't say those things.
NP here. You actually did say these things, so the pp's conclusions are logical.
Nope. I didn't. The PP is arguing with herself.
They're not. They are disagreeing with an ableist.
Nevermind the post up thread where I shared my own terrible experience at Disney with my daughter who kept melting down and my view that DAS wouldn't have fixed it. I really hate the idea that families are dragging their neurodivergent kid all across Disney to use them for a DAS pass when the whole thing is nothing but stress to the kid. Then parents pat themselves on the back that they avoided a total meltdown but got to ride a ton of rides with DAS. (Not that different than dragging 90 yo grandma around the park.)
My daughter has had fabulous experiences at lower stress parks like Dutch Wonderland where she got to ride tons of rides with no lines, no crowds and no waits. She loved meeting characters at Great Wolf Lodge. Disney is a cluster these days and I really question if going there is even worth it for anyone. It's just so crowded and stressful.
I don't know your kid and if your kid can enjoy Disney with DAS, but I do not think it's an appropriate trip for all kids. It's a stressful place and not at easy vacation at all, and that's even harder for a kid who doesn't do well with crowds, noise, or stimulation. As I experienced with my daughter, her rigidity was also a huge problem when rides closed unexpectedly, we had to wait for buses and then they were packed, or there was a thunderstorm that closed rides and pools. Really, it was awful for her so I don't put a lot into all these rosy stories of neurodiverse kids having a blast.
I'll just add that I'm sceptical that Disney only offers DAS to convince parents of neurodiverse kids that Disney is still an appropriate vacation for their kid (despite crowds and lines and everything else) so those families don't go spend their money elsewhere. It's really just a marketing tool.
Hi ableist! Kids (and adults) with special needs can love all things Disney, also! It's not just for NT people.
Please let me know where I said something to the contrary. Oh wait. I didn't. Stop putting words in my mouth.
It's the words YOU posted. YOU.
If it was my words, you'd quote them. But I never did, so you can't. All caps doesn't help your case.
Anonymous wrote:People really took advantage of the DAS program. I don’t blame Disney for changing it.
I do. People taking advantage of it is no reason to completely take away DAS from physically disabled people. It’s crazy to me that someone with like cerebral palsy or cancer or MS or whatever can’t use this service anymore because they don’t also have autism.
It doesn't sound like the new policy removes all access to physical disabilities. DAS is just excluding people whose issues can be solved with a pass to leave the line and return or a mobility device (e.g., scooter or wheelchair) so they don't have to stand.
Part of the problem is forcing people to use mobility devices when they don't need them under normal circumstances. I've seen several stories about amputees who are perfectly "mobile" but who have difficulty waiting in long lines, especially in heat, as the day progresses because their prosthesis becomes less comfortable and more painful being denied DAS because they could just get a wheelchair. That seems wrong to me.
NP What?! Someone upthread told me that if my toddler can't wait in 30-60 minute lines I shouldn't go to Disney either.
They can get a scooter. There is nothing “wrong” about that.
Huh. You don't think someone with a genuine physical disability that causes significant pain deserves some accommodation? By the way, ECVs cost $65 per day to rent, but I guess those slacker amputees should just deal.
If they’re walking around a park all day on a prosthesis, there’s no reason they can’t stand in line with the same prosthesis. Or sit on the chair/cane. Or lean on the ropes like the rest of us. If they can’t walk around the park all day and can’t stand in line at all, they get a scooter or a wheelchair.
Quit playing the victim here. There are options. You just don’t like them.
NP. By that logic, people with zero physical disabilities who have autism can also just stand in line for hours.
I don’t think that’s true. If an autistic kid can’t stand in line for an hour they may act out or scream or get physical or cause a disturbance to others waiting in line. It’s a completely different scenario.
This. My kid has to eat in a lunch bunch because he cannot even handle the noise and commotion of the cafeteria at school. If he gets overstimulated/dysregulated he may throw himself on the ground and kick. That doesn’t happen often thankfully, but it does on occasion.
In order for our family to go to Disney, we had to pick a less crowded time, select a few must do rides, and basically have a straight forward itinerary to avoid crossing all over the park and having downtime built in. We bought Genie + in conjunction to using DAS and were able to minimize crowd/line time, take meal breaks while waiting for our return time, and get in and out of the park in a shorter time.
I know people pay a lot of money to go to Disney and I appreciate not having to risk a) my kid losing it 80 minutes into a 90 minute wait and then having to give up on the ride and b) disturbing other guests if my kid flails and is upset.
Why are you taking a kid who can't cope in crowded places to Disney? Goodness. Choose a different vacation.
What’s wrong with you? Disney makes an effort to be inclusive. Kids with disabilities deserve to experience the magic of seeing their favorite characters come to life. My son also needed to eat in a lunch bunch during camp, where he gets dysregulated, but loves Disney world. He was obsessed with Toy Story the first time we went, and the castle. He was mesmerized by the fireworks. And all the entertainment was great for his adhd needs - we just have to know when to take breaks from all the stimulation, which we can do in our small family setting. We modify our vacation to meet his needs, but I can’t imagine having him miss out on Disney altogether. I’ve seen autistic people waiting in lines for cosmic rewind, wearing sensory friendly headphones. This is such a spectacularly out of touch comment.
NP What?! Someone upthread told me that if my toddler can't wait in 30-60 minute lines I shouldn't go to Disney either. Don't all kids deserve the magic of Disney? Their lines are untenable for all.
Yes, if you don’t want to wait in long lines you pay for genie+. The same way you pay for premium economy on an airplane. It’s a different than children with disabilities.
We did pay for genie+... the lightning lanes are still 20-30 min long and then you have to wait in other long lines between your genie + rides.
And if your toddler cannot handle that then they cannot handle Disney.
Not really, you can call that ADHD, autism, or anxiety and boom, get a DAS pass. It's apparently very easy. What you can't do is rent a scooter anymore and have it be a disability that qualifies. You don't need a doctor's note or diagnosis to qualify you just have to register for the process and have a video chat.
Also, this is lying. I would never lie about my child’s condition. I am completely honest with Disney about his conditions and behaviors, and they can tell me if that qualifies or not. Shame on people who lie.
And one more point- I wish my son didn’t have the difficulties that make him eligible for a DAS pass. One accommodation on a five day trip to Disney world does not make up for how much harder he needs to work on a daily basis to function in his everyday life. It does not compensate for the impact it has on our family and other child. I wish people understood this and had empathy for families of children with special needs.
This! People are upset over a child with disabilities getting a perceived “perk” over their family. But I’m willing to bet they wouldn’t trade places if they realized the trade offs this accommodation comes with. Want to drop 5k on a neuropsych, out of pocket therapies, calls from the school, IEP meetings, etc. Like my goodness, let the families of special needs kids have something to help them so they can take their neurodiverse child (and siblings growing up with a special needs family member) on a somewhat normal vacation.
What is next, is the PP going to be upset that amputees get to park closer to the store? That is an unfair advantage while others have to walk farther back in the lot. I mean maybe my feet are hurting too that day, so why should the person with a prosthetic get special treatment. Perhaps they should just stay home and order online groceries instead.
(Obviously this last paragraph is sarcasm).
Umm no one is complaining over people with REAL disabilities getting DAS. There were whole websites that told you how to fake DAS. Lots of blog posts and facebook groups too.
No there was absolutely a poster I was referring to (hopefully only one, but maybe more) saying kids with developmental disabilities shouldn’t be going on Disney vacations and that every kid under 10 could benefit from not waiting in line so why should these kids get a benefit.
As a person who a kid who has SNs and cannot cram in a gazillion rides from sun up to sun down, I’d be fine with a cap or limits on popular rides. I’m just disgusted by certain people saying disabled kids should basically not go at all.
Your reading comprehension is terrible. The statement was that Disney isn't a good vacation choice for a kid who is made upset by noise, crowds and stimulation. DAS doesn't remove those aspects. Disney is still noisy, crowded and over stimulating.
And DAS provides accommodations to help those kid still get to enjoy the magic of a Disney vacation. My son can get dysregulated in certain situations, so we don’t push him to the brink. We make a reasonable ride schedule (he does love the rides). He loves interacting with the characters. We book meal reservations in advance (buffets are great b/c there is no wait and lots of food options for picky eaters). There are multiple pools at many resorts so you can pick a quieter pool to go back and relax at. We also stay on property so we’re close by if we want to take breaks back at your room.
So who are you to say kids like mine can’t have a good vacation at Disney? DAS along with other planning measures on our family’s part allow him to enjoy a family vacation, better in some ways than traveling to places are that less self contained and curated for families.
I am sure there is abuse. I’ll trust Disney’s statistics on it and am fine with a paperwork process since we can easily provide that. But to say DAS doesn’t help with developmental disabilities and that it’s not a good vacation for them is just ignorant of how amazing Disney really is for families including kids with SNs.
You are making a lot of assumptions and drawing conclusions that I never said. Go ahead and keep debating with yourself, because I didn't say those things.
NP here. You actually did say these things, so the pp's conclusions are logical.
Nope. I didn't. The PP is arguing with herself.
They're not. They are disagreeing with an ableist.
Nevermind the post up thread where I shared my own terrible experience at Disney with my daughter who kept melting down and my view that DAS wouldn't have fixed it. I really hate the idea that families are dragging their neurodivergent kid all across Disney to use them for a DAS pass when the whole thing is nothing but stress to the kid. Then parents pat themselves on the back that they avoided a total meltdown but got to ride a ton of rides with DAS. (Not that different than dragging 90 yo grandma around the park.)
My daughter has had fabulous experiences at lower stress parks like Dutch Wonderland where she got to ride tons of rides with no lines, no crowds and no waits. She loved meeting characters at Great Wolf Lodge. Disney is a cluster these days and I really question if going there is even worth it for anyone. It's just so crowded and stressful.
I don't know your kid and if your kid can enjoy Disney with DAS, but I do not think it's an appropriate trip for all kids. It's a stressful place and not at easy vacation at all, and that's even harder for a kid who doesn't do well with crowds, noise, or stimulation. As I experienced with my daughter, her rigidity was also a huge problem when rides closed unexpectedly, we had to wait for buses and then they were packed, or there was a thunderstorm that closed rides and pools. Really, it was awful for her so I don't put a lot into all these rosy stories of neurodiverse kids having a blast.
.
Hi ableist! Kids (and adults) with special needs can love all things Disney, also! It's not just for NT people.
Please let me know where I said something to the contrary. Oh wait. I didn't. Stop putting words in my mouth.
It's the words YOU posted. YOU.
If it was my words, you'd quote them. But I never did, so you can't. All caps doesn't help your case.
There is no 'case'. YOU have been posting ableist, imagined rants throughout this thread. At least, I hope it is just one person doing it. If it's more than one, that's even more pathetic. But I'll quote a few.
I'll just add that I'm sceptical that Disney only offers DAS to convince parents of neurodiverse kids that Disney is still an appropriate vacation for their kid (despite crowds and lines and everything else) so those families don't go spend their money elsewhere. It's really just a marketing tool
Really, it was awful for her so I don't put a lot into all these rosy stories of neurodiverse kids having a blast.
Why are you taking a kid who can't cope in crowded places to Disney? Goodness. Choose a different vacation.
If they’re walking around a park all day on a prosthesis, there’s no reason they can’t stand in line with the same prosthesis.
Anonymous wrote:I'm interested in this topic because I will be at WDW a few days after this May 20 change. And I'm wondering what impact there will be so soon after. I'm not sure I understand what's happening. Will it only affect people trying to register for DAS after that date? Presumably other visitors will have already applied using the only rules. Will this lead to a massive increase in demand for Genie+ and will it be harder to purchase the day of and will it be even harder to book any LL? If it's going to be hard to access and use not sure if it's worth it to buy in advance.
That's my question too. Disney is deciding that the system is broken from their perspective, which they can do as long as the parks are ADA-compliant. The current DAS program goes well beyond what is required under the ADA, and people with a wide range of disabilities appreciated that Disney granted them accommodations and have come to expect to be approved for DAS. As a business decision, Disney is scaling back the circumstances under which DAS can be granted, and it will have an impact on those who were outright cheating the system, those who exaggerated their actual conditions, and those who legitimately struggle to access the parks due to a disability. Again, it's a business decision for Disney as long the are not in violation of the ADA. The ADA requires a reasonable accommodation, and regardless of the actual number of DAS holders using LLs, the current system arguably provides a better experience for disabled guests than is available for non-disabled guests, which suggests that the current system may not be reasonable for Disney, whether that is because it creates longer LL lines, standby lines, or hurts their bottom line because fewer people purchase Genie +.
As others have noted, those who are faking conditions or exaggerating to get DAS are the most likely to be heavy users of the LL because they are more likely to spend full days at the parks and be able to cover the most ground. Realistically, many, if not most people who were approved for DAS with actual disabilities that interfere with their ability to stand in long lines aren't the ones who are there from rope drop to close, cris-crossing the park repeatedly to ride as many rides as possible. The hostility exhibited toward those who have used DAS in the past or who plan to in the future seems based on an understanding that everyone asking for DAS is doing it to gain an advantage over non-DAS users without any regard to the challenges their disabilities pose.
But back to your question, from a guest perspective, the anti-DAS people are also assuming that reducing the number of people being granted DAS and reducing the size of their parties will have a positive impact on their experience. The changes should reduce the number of DAS guests in the LLs, with fewer being granted DAS and their party size more limited. However, if Disney's intention or the result of the change is to force more people purchase Genie +, the changes could actually make Genie + an even worse value, with more guests trying to select rides and few popular attractions available at desirable times. I guess part of the answer depends on the extent to which Disney plans for DAS users in LLs by limiting the capacity for Genie + purchasers. IF half the people who formerly used DAS now buy Genie + and another chunk of the population are now in the standby lines (perhaps those who exaggerated conditions and are able to wait in long lines), how is that going to improve the guest experience for everyone else?
There is certainly a lot of imagination at work in this post!
PP who asked about the changes-I recommend that you go to the DISBOARDS and read in the disABILITIES section. The mods there have actual facts about the changes.
I'm only curious about the changes such that they will alter my own plans, as a non DAS user. Should I get Genie+ or not? Will it be overwhelmed making it impossible to use enough to get the value? Will there be any impact to wait times? My trip is a few days after May 20. I was planning to get Genie+ but now I'm not sure.
If you look at the pinned post the PP posted about, it doesn't appear that Genie+ would be impacted. What Disney did say was that Disney Genie (the free one) may be suggested as a way for people who do not qualify for DAS to enjoy more of the magic.
I would continue to plan your trip in the way you were going to, after doing your own planning and research.
I'm not the PP, but how does that answer her question? If anything, that information from the DIS moderators validates the concern that parties that previously used DAS will purchase Genie +, making Genie + attractions less available (and the cost a worse value). If there is no intention or expectation that fewer DAS accommodations for completely undefined "individual circumstances," why is this information about the Tip Board and Genie + included?
Anonymous wrote:I'm interested in this topic because I will be at WDW a few days after this May 20 change. And I'm wondering what impact there will be so soon after. I'm not sure I understand what's happening. Will it only affect people trying to register for DAS after that date? Presumably other visitors will have already applied using the only rules. Will this lead to a massive increase in demand for Genie+ and will it be harder to purchase the day of and will it be even harder to book any LL? If it's going to be hard to access and use not sure if it's worth it to buy in advance.
That's my question too. Disney is deciding that the system is broken from their perspective, which they can do as long as the parks are ADA-compliant. The current DAS program goes well beyond what is required under the ADA, and people with a wide range of disabilities appreciated that Disney granted them accommodations and have come to expect to be approved for DAS. As a business decision, Disney is scaling back the circumstances under which DAS can be granted, and it will have an impact on those who were outright cheating the system, those who exaggerated their actual conditions, and those who legitimately struggle to access the parks due to a disability. Again, it's a business decision for Disney as long the are not in violation of the ADA. The ADA requires a reasonable accommodation, and regardless of the actual number of DAS holders using LLs, the current system arguably provides a better experience for disabled guests than is available for non-disabled guests, which suggests that the current system may not be reasonable for Disney, whether that is because it creates longer LL lines, standby lines, or hurts their bottom line because fewer people purchase Genie +.
As others have noted, those who are faking conditions or exaggerating to get DAS are the most likely to be heavy users of the LL because they are more likely to spend full days at the parks and be able to cover the most ground. Realistically, many, if not most people who were approved for DAS with actual disabilities that interfere with their ability to stand in long lines aren't the ones who are there from rope drop to close, cris-crossing the park repeatedly to ride as many rides as possible. The hostility exhibited toward those who have used DAS in the past or who plan to in the future seems based on an understanding that everyone asking for DAS is doing it to gain an advantage over non-DAS users without any regard to the challenges their disabilities pose.
But back to your question, from a guest perspective, the anti-DAS people are also assuming that reducing the number of people being granted DAS and reducing the size of their parties will have a positive impact on their experience. The changes should reduce the number of DAS guests in the LLs, with fewer being granted DAS and their party size more limited. However, if Disney's intention or the result of the change is to force more people purchase Genie +, the changes could actually make Genie + an even worse value, with more guests trying to select rides and few popular attractions available at desirable times. I guess part of the answer depends on the extent to which Disney plans for DAS users in LLs by limiting the capacity for Genie + purchasers. IF half the people who formerly used DAS now buy Genie + and another chunk of the population are now in the standby lines (perhaps those who exaggerated conditions and are able to wait in long lines), how is that going to improve the guest experience for everyone else?
There is certainly a lot of imagination at work in this post!
PP who asked about the changes-I recommend that you go to the DISBOARDS and read in the disABILITIES section. The mods there have actual facts about the changes.
I'm only curious about the changes such that they will alter my own plans, as a non DAS user. Should I get Genie+ or not? Will it be overwhelmed making it impossible to use enough to get the value? Will there be any impact to wait times? My trip is a few days after May 20. I was planning to get Genie+ but now I'm not sure.
If you look at the pinned post the PP posted about, it doesn't appear that Genie+ would be impacted. What Disney did say was that Disney Genie (the free one) may be suggested as a way for people who do not qualify for DAS to enjoy more of the magic.
I would continue to plan your trip in the way you were going to, after doing your own planning and research.
I'm not the PP, but how does that answer her question? If anything, that information from the DIS moderators validates the concern that parties that previously used DAS will purchase Genie +, making Genie + attractions less available (and the cost a worse value). If there is no intention or expectation that fewer DAS accommodations for completely undefined "individual circumstances," why is this information about the Tip Board and Genie + included?
Exactly. There is a finite number of Genie+ passes and the LL sell out quickly. So, it seems obvious that making a change like this might have consequences elsewhere. Will Genie+ sell out quicker, or worse become ever more expensive as demand surges with limited usefulness? It's not a fixed price it changes day to day as I understand it. I haven't seen much discussion around this and likely because nobody knows.
Anonymous wrote:People really took advantage of the DAS program. I don’t blame Disney for changing it.
I do. People taking advantage of it is no reason to completely take away DAS from physically disabled people. It’s crazy to me that someone with like cerebral palsy or cancer or MS or whatever can’t use this service anymore because they don’t also have autism.
It doesn't sound like the new policy removes all access to physical disabilities. DAS is just excluding people whose issues can be solved with a pass to leave the line and return or a mobility device (e.g., scooter or wheelchair) so they don't have to stand.
Part of the problem is forcing people to use mobility devices when they don't need them under normal circumstances. I've seen several stories about amputees who are perfectly "mobile" but who have difficulty waiting in long lines, especially in heat, as the day progresses because their prosthesis becomes less comfortable and more painful being denied DAS because they could just get a wheelchair. That seems wrong to me.
NP What?! Someone upthread told me that if my toddler can't wait in 30-60 minute lines I shouldn't go to Disney either.
They can get a scooter. There is nothing “wrong” about that.
Huh. You don't think someone with a genuine physical disability that causes significant pain deserves some accommodation? By the way, ECVs cost $65 per day to rent, but I guess those slacker amputees should just deal.
If they’re walking around a park all day on a prosthesis, there’s no reason they can’t stand in line with the same prosthesis. Or sit on the chair/cane. Or lean on the ropes like the rest of us. If they can’t walk around the park all day and can’t stand in line at all, they get a scooter or a wheelchair.
Quit playing the victim here. There are options. You just don’t like them.
NP. By that logic, people with zero physical disabilities who have autism can also just stand in line for hours.
I don’t think that’s true. If an autistic kid can’t stand in line for an hour they may act out or scream or get physical or cause a disturbance to others waiting in line. It’s a completely different scenario.
This. My kid has to eat in a lunch bunch because he cannot even handle the noise and commotion of the cafeteria at school. If he gets overstimulated/dysregulated he may throw himself on the ground and kick. That doesn’t happen often thankfully, but it does on occasion.
In order for our family to go to Disney, we had to pick a less crowded time, select a few must do rides, and basically have a straight forward itinerary to avoid crossing all over the park and having downtime built in. We bought Genie + in conjunction to using DAS and were able to minimize crowd/line time, take meal breaks while waiting for our return time, and get in and out of the park in a shorter time.
I know people pay a lot of money to go to Disney and I appreciate not having to risk a) my kid losing it 80 minutes into a 90 minute wait and then having to give up on the ride and b) disturbing other guests if my kid flails and is upset.
Why are you taking a kid who can't cope in crowded places to Disney? Goodness. Choose a different vacation.
What’s wrong with you? Disney makes an effort to be inclusive. Kids with disabilities deserve to experience the magic of seeing their favorite characters come to life. My son also needed to eat in a lunch bunch during camp, where he gets dysregulated, but loves Disney world. He was obsessed with Toy Story the first time we went, and the castle. He was mesmerized by the fireworks. And all the entertainment was great for his adhd needs - we just have to know when to take breaks from all the stimulation, which we can do in our small family setting. We modify our vacation to meet his needs, but I can’t imagine having him miss out on Disney altogether. I’ve seen autistic people waiting in lines for cosmic rewind, wearing sensory friendly headphones. This is such a spectacularly out of touch comment.
NP What?! Someone upthread told me that if my toddler can't wait in 30-60 minute lines I shouldn't go to Disney either. Don't all kids deserve the magic of Disney? Their lines are untenable for all.
Yes, if you don’t want to wait in long lines you pay for genie+. The same way you pay for premium economy on an airplane. It’s a different than children with disabilities.
We did pay for genie+... the lightning lanes are still 20-30 min long and then you have to wait in other long lines between your genie + rides.
And if your toddler cannot handle that then they cannot handle Disney.
Not really, you can call that ADHD, autism, or anxiety and boom, get a DAS pass. It's apparently very easy. What you can't do is rent a scooter anymore and have it be a disability that qualifies. You don't need a doctor's note or diagnosis to qualify you just have to register for the process and have a video chat.
Also, this is lying. I would never lie about my child’s condition. I am completely honest with Disney about his conditions and behaviors, and they can tell me if that qualifies or not. Shame on people who lie.
And one more point- I wish my son didn’t have the difficulties that make him eligible for a DAS pass. One accommodation on a five day trip to Disney world does not make up for how much harder he needs to work on a daily basis to function in his everyday life. It does not compensate for the impact it has on our family and other child. I wish people understood this and had empathy for families of children with special needs.
This! People are upset over a child with disabilities getting a perceived “perk” over their family. But I’m willing to bet they wouldn’t trade places if they realized the trade offs this accommodation comes with. Want to drop 5k on a neuropsych, out of pocket therapies, calls from the school, IEP meetings, etc. Like my goodness, let the families of special needs kids have something to help them so they can take their neurodiverse child (and siblings growing up with a special needs family member) on a somewhat normal vacation.
What is next, is the PP going to be upset that amputees get to park closer to the store? That is an unfair advantage while others have to walk farther back in the lot. I mean maybe my feet are hurting too that day, so why should the person with a prosthetic get special treatment. Perhaps they should just stay home and order online groceries instead.
(Obviously this last paragraph is sarcasm).
Umm no one is complaining over people with REAL disabilities getting DAS. There were whole websites that told you how to fake DAS. Lots of blog posts and facebook groups too.
No there was absolutely a poster I was referring to (hopefully only one, but maybe more) saying kids with developmental disabilities shouldn’t be going on Disney vacations and that every kid under 10 could benefit from not waiting in line so why should these kids get a benefit.
As a person who a kid who has SNs and cannot cram in a gazillion rides from sun up to sun down, I’d be fine with a cap or limits on popular rides. I’m just disgusted by certain people saying disabled kids should basically not go at all.
Your reading comprehension is terrible. The statement was that Disney isn't a good vacation choice for a kid who is made upset by noise, crowds and stimulation. DAS doesn't remove those aspects. Disney is still noisy, crowded and over stimulating.
And DAS provides accommodations to help those kid still get to enjoy the magic of a Disney vacation. My son can get dysregulated in certain situations, so we don’t push him to the brink. We make a reasonable ride schedule (he does love the rides). He loves interacting with the characters. We book meal reservations in advance (buffets are great b/c there is no wait and lots of food options for picky eaters). There are multiple pools at many resorts so you can pick a quieter pool to go back and relax at. We also stay on property so we’re close by if we want to take breaks back at your room.
So who are you to say kids like mine can’t have a good vacation at Disney? DAS along with other planning measures on our family’s part allow him to enjoy a family vacation, better in some ways than traveling to places are that less self contained and curated for families.
I am sure there is abuse. I’ll trust Disney’s statistics on it and am fine with a paperwork process since we can easily provide that. But to say DAS doesn’t help with developmental disabilities and that it’s not a good vacation for them is just ignorant of how amazing Disney really is for families including kids with SNs.
You are making a lot of assumptions and drawing conclusions that I never said. Go ahead and keep debating with yourself, because I didn't say those things.
NP here. You actually did say these things, so the pp's conclusions are logical.
Nope. I didn't. The PP is arguing with herself.
They're not. They are disagreeing with an ableist.
Nevermind the post up thread where I shared my own terrible experience at Disney with my daughter who kept melting down and my view that DAS wouldn't have fixed it. I really hate the idea that families are dragging their neurodivergent kid all across Disney to use them for a DAS pass when the whole thing is nothing but stress to the kid. Then parents pat themselves on the back that they avoided a total meltdown but got to ride a ton of rides with DAS. (Not that different than dragging 90 yo grandma around the park.)
My daughter has had fabulous experiences at lower stress parks like Dutch Wonderland where she got to ride tons of rides with no lines, no crowds and no waits. She loved meeting characters at Great Wolf Lodge. Disney is a cluster these days and I really question if going there is even worth it for anyone. It's just so crowded and stressful.
I don't know your kid and if your kid can enjoy Disney with DAS, but I do not think it's an appropriate trip for all kids. It's a stressful place and not at easy vacation at all, and that's even harder for a kid who doesn't do well with crowds, noise, or stimulation. As I experienced with my daughter, her rigidity was also a huge problem when rides closed unexpectedly, we had to wait for buses and then they were packed, or there was a thunderstorm that closed rides and pools. Really, it was awful for her so I don't put a lot into all these rosy stories of neurodiverse kids having a blast.
.
Hi ableist! Kids (and adults) with special needs can love all things Disney, also! It's not just for NT people.
Please let me know where I said something to the contrary. Oh wait. I didn't. Stop putting words in my mouth.
It's the words YOU posted. YOU.
If it was my words, you'd quote them. But I never did, so you can't. All caps doesn't help your case.
There is no 'case'. YOU have been posting ableist, imagined rants throughout this thread. At least, I hope it is just one person doing it. If it's more than one, that's even more pathetic. But I'll quote a few.
I'll just add that I'm sceptical that Disney only offers DAS to convince parents of neurodiverse kids that Disney is still an appropriate vacation for their kid (despite crowds and lines and everything else) so those families don't go spend their money elsewhere. It's really just a marketing tool
Really, it was awful for her so I don't put a lot into all these rosy stories of neurodiverse kids having a blast.
Why are you taking a kid who can't cope in crowded places to Disney? Goodness. Choose a different vacation.
If they’re walking around a park all day on a prosthesis, there’s no reason they can’t stand in line with the same prosthesis.
The prothesis one wasn't me.
I stand by my statement that Disney isn't a good choice of vacations for all neurodiverse kids, whether or not DAS is available. It's insanely crowded and not a good choice for kids who melt down in crowds. It requires an amount of flexibility that may rigid kids don't have. It entails a level of stimulation that many kids can't handle. I also said, which you chose not to quote, that I don't know your kid or whether they actually enjoy Disney. But Disney made my kid absolutely miserable and I stand by that. Not all kids should vacation at Disney.
I never said that "special needs kids can't enjoy Disney", which is what you accused me of saying. I said it's not an appropriate choice for some kids and gave a list of reasons why.
Anonymous wrote:People really took advantage of the DAS program. I don’t blame Disney for changing it.
I do. People taking advantage of it is no reason to completely take away DAS from physically disabled people. It’s crazy to me that someone with like cerebral palsy or cancer or MS or whatever can’t use this service anymore because they don’t also have autism.
It doesn't sound like the new policy removes all access to physical disabilities. DAS is just excluding people whose issues can be solved with a pass to leave the line and return or a mobility device (e.g., scooter or wheelchair) so they don't have to stand.
Part of the problem is forcing people to use mobility devices when they don't need them under normal circumstances. I've seen several stories about amputees who are perfectly "mobile" but who have difficulty waiting in long lines, especially in heat, as the day progresses because their prosthesis becomes less comfortable and more painful being denied DAS because they could just get a wheelchair. That seems wrong to me.
NP What?! Someone upthread told me that if my toddler can't wait in 30-60 minute lines I shouldn't go to Disney either.
They can get a scooter. There is nothing “wrong” about that.
Huh. You don't think someone with a genuine physical disability that causes significant pain deserves some accommodation? By the way, ECVs cost $65 per day to rent, but I guess those slacker amputees should just deal.
If they’re walking around a park all day on a prosthesis, there’s no reason they can’t stand in line with the same prosthesis. Or sit on the chair/cane. Or lean on the ropes like the rest of us. If they can’t walk around the park all day and can’t stand in line at all, they get a scooter or a wheelchair.
Quit playing the victim here. There are options. You just don’t like them.
NP. By that logic, people with zero physical disabilities who have autism can also just stand in line for hours.
I don’t think that’s true. If an autistic kid can’t stand in line for an hour they may act out or scream or get physical or cause a disturbance to others waiting in line. It’s a completely different scenario.
This. My kid has to eat in a lunch bunch because he cannot even handle the noise and commotion of the cafeteria at school. If he gets overstimulated/dysregulated he may throw himself on the ground and kick. That doesn’t happen often thankfully, but it does on occasion.
In order for our family to go to Disney, we had to pick a less crowded time, select a few must do rides, and basically have a straight forward itinerary to avoid crossing all over the park and having downtime built in. We bought Genie + in conjunction to using DAS and were able to minimize crowd/line time, take meal breaks while waiting for our return time, and get in and out of the park in a shorter time.
I know people pay a lot of money to go to Disney and I appreciate not having to risk a) my kid losing it 80 minutes into a 90 minute wait and then having to give up on the ride and b) disturbing other guests if my kid flails and is upset.
Why are you taking a kid who can't cope in crowded places to Disney? Goodness. Choose a different vacation.
What’s wrong with you? Disney makes an effort to be inclusive. Kids with disabilities deserve to experience the magic of seeing their favorite characters come to life. My son also needed to eat in a lunch bunch during camp, where he gets dysregulated, but loves Disney world. He was obsessed with Toy Story the first time we went, and the castle. He was mesmerized by the fireworks. And all the entertainment was great for his adhd needs - we just have to know when to take breaks from all the stimulation, which we can do in our small family setting. We modify our vacation to meet his needs, but I can’t imagine having him miss out on Disney altogether. I’ve seen autistic people waiting in lines for cosmic rewind, wearing sensory friendly headphones. This is such a spectacularly out of touch comment.
NP What?! Someone upthread told me that if my toddler can't wait in 30-60 minute lines I shouldn't go to Disney either. Don't all kids deserve the magic of Disney? Their lines are untenable for all.
Yes, if you don’t want to wait in long lines you pay for genie+. The same way you pay for premium economy on an airplane. It’s a different than children with disabilities.
We did pay for genie+... the lightning lanes are still 20-30 min long and then you have to wait in other long lines between your genie + rides.
And if your toddler cannot handle that then they cannot handle Disney.
Not really, you can call that ADHD, autism, or anxiety and boom, get a DAS pass. It's apparently very easy. What you can't do is rent a scooter anymore and have it be a disability that qualifies. You don't need a doctor's note or diagnosis to qualify you just have to register for the process and have a video chat.
Also, this is lying. I would never lie about my child’s condition. I am completely honest with Disney about his conditions and behaviors, and they can tell me if that qualifies or not. Shame on people who lie.
And one more point- I wish my son didn’t have the difficulties that make him eligible for a DAS pass. One accommodation on a five day trip to Disney world does not make up for how much harder he needs to work on a daily basis to function in his everyday life. It does not compensate for the impact it has on our family and other child. I wish people understood this and had empathy for families of children with special needs.
This! People are upset over a child with disabilities getting a perceived “perk” over their family. But I’m willing to bet they wouldn’t trade places if they realized the trade offs this accommodation comes with. Want to drop 5k on a neuropsych, out of pocket therapies, calls from the school, IEP meetings, etc. Like my goodness, let the families of special needs kids have something to help them so they can take their neurodiverse child (and siblings growing up with a special needs family member) on a somewhat normal vacation.
What is next, is the PP going to be upset that amputees get to park closer to the store? That is an unfair advantage while others have to walk farther back in the lot. I mean maybe my feet are hurting too that day, so why should the person with a prosthetic get special treatment. Perhaps they should just stay home and order online groceries instead.
(Obviously this last paragraph is sarcasm).
Umm no one is complaining over people with REAL disabilities getting DAS. There were whole websites that told you how to fake DAS. Lots of blog posts and facebook groups too.
No there was absolutely a poster I was referring to (hopefully only one, but maybe more) saying kids with developmental disabilities shouldn’t be going on Disney vacations and that every kid under 10 could benefit from not waiting in line so why should these kids get a benefit.
As a person who a kid who has SNs and cannot cram in a gazillion rides from sun up to sun down, I’d be fine with a cap or limits on popular rides. I’m just disgusted by certain people saying disabled kids should basically not go at all.
Your reading comprehension is terrible. The statement was that Disney isn't a good vacation choice for a kid who is made upset by noise, crowds and stimulation. DAS doesn't remove those aspects. Disney is still noisy, crowded and over stimulating.
And DAS provides accommodations to help those kid still get to enjoy the magic of a Disney vacation. My son can get dysregulated in certain situations, so we don’t push him to the brink. We make a reasonable ride schedule (he does love the rides). He loves interacting with the characters. We book meal reservations in advance (buffets are great b/c there is no wait and lots of food options for picky eaters). There are multiple pools at many resorts so you can pick a quieter pool to go back and relax at. We also stay on property so we’re close by if we want to take breaks back at your room.
So who are you to say kids like mine can’t have a good vacation at Disney? DAS along with other planning measures on our family’s part allow him to enjoy a family vacation, better in some ways than traveling to places are that less self contained and curated for families.
I am sure there is abuse. I’ll trust Disney’s statistics on it and am fine with a paperwork process since we can easily provide that. But to say DAS doesn’t help with developmental disabilities and that it’s not a good vacation for them is just ignorant of how amazing Disney really is for families including kids with SNs.
You are making a lot of assumptions and drawing conclusions that I never said. Go ahead and keep debating with yourself, because I didn't say those things.
NP here. You actually did say these things, so the pp's conclusions are logical.
Nope. I didn't. The PP is arguing with herself.
They're not. They are disagreeing with an ableist.
Nevermind the post up thread where I shared my own terrible experience at Disney with my daughter who kept melting down and my view that DAS wouldn't have fixed it. I really hate the idea that families are dragging their neurodivergent kid all across Disney to use them for a DAS pass when the whole thing is nothing but stress to the kid. Then parents pat themselves on the back that they avoided a total meltdown but got to ride a ton of rides with DAS. (Not that different than dragging 90 yo grandma around the park.)
My daughter has had fabulous experiences at lower stress parks like Dutch Wonderland where she got to ride tons of rides with no lines, no crowds and no waits. She loved meeting characters at Great Wolf Lodge. Disney is a cluster these days and I really question if going there is even worth it for anyone. It's just so crowded and stressful.
I don't know your kid and if your kid can enjoy Disney with DAS, but I do not think it's an appropriate trip for all kids. It's a stressful place and not at easy vacation at all, and that's even harder for a kid who doesn't do well with crowds, noise, or stimulation. As I experienced with my daughter, her rigidity was also a huge problem when rides closed unexpectedly, we had to wait for buses and then they were packed, or there was a thunderstorm that closed rides and pools. Really, it was awful for her so I don't put a lot into all these rosy stories of neurodiverse kids having a blast.
We waited until my HFA kid was 11 - would have been really hard any earlier!
Anonymous wrote:I'm interested in this topic because I will be at WDW a few days after this May 20 change. And I'm wondering what impact there will be so soon after. I'm not sure I understand what's happening. Will it only affect people trying to register for DAS after that date? Presumably other visitors will have already applied using the only rules. Will this lead to a massive increase in demand for Genie+ and will it be harder to purchase the day of and will it be even harder to book any LL? If it's going to be hard to access and use not sure if it's worth it to buy in advance.
That's my question too. Disney is deciding that the system is broken from their perspective, which they can do as long as the parks are ADA-compliant. The current DAS program goes well beyond what is required under the ADA, and people with a wide range of disabilities appreciated that Disney granted them accommodations and have come to expect to be approved for DAS. As a business decision, Disney is scaling back the circumstances under which DAS can be granted, and it will have an impact on those who were outright cheating the system, those who exaggerated their actual conditions, and those who legitimately struggle to access the parks due to a disability. Again, it's a business decision for Disney as long the are not in violation of the ADA. The ADA requires a reasonable accommodation, and regardless of the actual number of DAS holders using LLs, the current system arguably provides a better experience for disabled guests than is available for non-disabled guests, which suggests that the current system may not be reasonable for Disney, whether that is because it creates longer LL lines, standby lines, or hurts their bottom line because fewer people purchase Genie +.
As others have noted, those who are faking conditions or exaggerating to get DAS are the most likely to be heavy users of the LL because they are more likely to spend full days at the parks and be able to cover the most ground. Realistically, many, if not most people who were approved for DAS with actual disabilities that interfere with their ability to stand in long lines aren't the ones who are there from rope drop to close, cris-crossing the park repeatedly to ride as many rides as possible. The hostility exhibited toward those who have used DAS in the past or who plan to in the future seems based on an understanding that everyone asking for DAS is doing it to gain an advantage over non-DAS users without any regard to the challenges their disabilities pose.
But back to your question, from a guest perspective, the anti-DAS people are also assuming that reducing the number of people being granted DAS and reducing the size of their parties will have a positive impact on their experience. The changes should reduce the number of DAS guests in the LLs, with fewer being granted DAS and their party size more limited. However, if Disney's intention or the result of the change is to force more people purchase Genie +, the changes could actually make Genie + an even worse value, with more guests trying to select rides and few popular attractions available at desirable times. I guess part of the answer depends on the extent to which Disney plans for DAS users in LLs by limiting the capacity for Genie + purchasers. IF half the people who formerly used DAS now buy Genie + and another chunk of the population are now in the standby lines (perhaps those who exaggerated conditions and are able to wait in long lines), how is that going to improve the guest experience for everyone else?
There is certainly a lot of imagination at work in this post!
PP who asked about the changes-I recommend that you go to the DISBOARDS and read in the disABILITIES section. The mods there have actual facts about the changes.
I'm only curious about the changes such that they will alter my own plans, as a non DAS user. Should I get Genie+ or not? Will it be overwhelmed making it impossible to use enough to get the value? Will there be any impact to wait times? My trip is a few days after May 20. I was planning to get Genie+ but now I'm not sure.
If you look at the pinned post the PP posted about, it doesn't appear that Genie+ would be impacted. What Disney did say was that Disney Genie (the free one) may be suggested as a way for people who do not qualify for DAS to enjoy more of the magic.
I would continue to plan your trip in the way you were going to, after doing your own planning and research.
I'm not the PP, but how does that answer her question? If anything, that information from the DIS moderators validates the concern that parties that previously used DAS will purchase Genie +, making Genie + attractions less available (and the cost a worse value). If there is no intention or expectation that fewer DAS accommodations for completely undefined "individual circumstances," why is this information about the Tip Board and Genie + included?
The information was about Disney Genie. Genie + is the paid one. Disney says that they will tell people who apply for but are not qualified for Das will be informed how 'Disney Genie' can help them enjoy more of the magic. So presumably, at least some people who no longer get a das might use 'Disney Genie'. No one knows how many may or may not proceed to buy Genie+.
The best thing pp can do is read the pinned post for themselves and decide what they want to do. If 'I' was going and already planning to buy Genie+, I would. But in reality, I never buy it, but that's just my choice.
Anonymous wrote:People really took advantage of the DAS program. I don’t blame Disney for changing it.
I do. People taking advantage of it is no reason to completely take away DAS from physically disabled people. It’s crazy to me that someone with like cerebral palsy or cancer or MS or whatever can’t use this service anymore because they don’t also have autism.
It doesn't sound like the new policy removes all access to physical disabilities. DAS is just excluding people whose issues can be solved with a pass to leave the line and return or a mobility device (e.g., scooter or wheelchair) so they don't have to stand.
Part of the problem is forcing people to use mobility devices when they don't need them under normal circumstances. I've seen several stories about amputees who are perfectly "mobile" but who have difficulty waiting in long lines, especially in heat, as the day progresses because their prosthesis becomes less comfortable and more painful being denied DAS because they could just get a wheelchair. That seems wrong to me.
NP What?! Someone upthread told me that if my toddler can't wait in 30-60 minute lines I shouldn't go to Disney either.
They can get a scooter. There is nothing “wrong” about that.
Huh. You don't think someone with a genuine physical disability that causes significant pain deserves some accommodation? By the way, ECVs cost $65 per day to rent, but I guess those slacker amputees should just deal.
If they’re walking around a park all day on a prosthesis, there’s no reason they can’t stand in line with the same prosthesis. Or sit on the chair/cane. Or lean on the ropes like the rest of us. If they can’t walk around the park all day and can’t stand in line at all, they get a scooter or a wheelchair.
Quit playing the victim here. There are options. You just don’t like them.
NP. By that logic, people with zero physical disabilities who have autism can also just stand in line for hours.
I don’t think that’s true. If an autistic kid can’t stand in line for an hour they may act out or scream or get physical or cause a disturbance to others waiting in line. It’s a completely different scenario.
This. My kid has to eat in a lunch bunch because he cannot even handle the noise and commotion of the cafeteria at school. If he gets overstimulated/dysregulated he may throw himself on the ground and kick. That doesn’t happen often thankfully, but it does on occasion.
In order for our family to go to Disney, we had to pick a less crowded time, select a few must do rides, and basically have a straight forward itinerary to avoid crossing all over the park and having downtime built in. We bought Genie + in conjunction to using DAS and were able to minimize crowd/line time, take meal breaks while waiting for our return time, and get in and out of the park in a shorter time.
I know people pay a lot of money to go to Disney and I appreciate not having to risk a) my kid losing it 80 minutes into a 90 minute wait and then having to give up on the ride and b) disturbing other guests if my kid flails and is upset.
Why are you taking a kid who can't cope in crowded places to Disney? Goodness. Choose a different vacation.
What’s wrong with you? Disney makes an effort to be inclusive. Kids with disabilities deserve to experience the magic of seeing their favorite characters come to life. My son also needed to eat in a lunch bunch during camp, where he gets dysregulated, but loves Disney world. He was obsessed with Toy Story the first time we went, and the castle. He was mesmerized by the fireworks. And all the entertainment was great for his adhd needs - we just have to know when to take breaks from all the stimulation, which we can do in our small family setting. We modify our vacation to meet his needs, but I can’t imagine having him miss out on Disney altogether. I’ve seen autistic people waiting in lines for cosmic rewind, wearing sensory friendly headphones. This is such a spectacularly out of touch comment.
NP What?! Someone upthread told me that if my toddler can't wait in 30-60 minute lines I shouldn't go to Disney either. Don't all kids deserve the magic of Disney? Their lines are untenable for all.
Yes, if you don’t want to wait in long lines you pay for genie+. The same way you pay for premium economy on an airplane. It’s a different than children with disabilities.
We did pay for genie+... the lightning lanes are still 20-30 min long and then you have to wait in other long lines between your genie + rides.
And if your toddler cannot handle that then they cannot handle Disney.
Not really, you can call that ADHD, autism, or anxiety and boom, get a DAS pass. It's apparently very easy. What you can't do is rent a scooter anymore and have it be a disability that qualifies. You don't need a doctor's note or diagnosis to qualify you just have to register for the process and have a video chat.
Also, this is lying. I would never lie about my child’s condition. I am completely honest with Disney about his conditions and behaviors, and they can tell me if that qualifies or not. Shame on people who lie.
And one more point- I wish my son didn’t have the difficulties that make him eligible for a DAS pass. One accommodation on a five day trip to Disney world does not make up for how much harder he needs to work on a daily basis to function in his everyday life. It does not compensate for the impact it has on our family and other child. I wish people understood this and had empathy for families of children with special needs.
This! People are upset over a child with disabilities getting a perceived “perk” over their family. But I’m willing to bet they wouldn’t trade places if they realized the trade offs this accommodation comes with. Want to drop 5k on a neuropsych, out of pocket therapies, calls from the school, IEP meetings, etc. Like my goodness, let the families of special needs kids have something to help them so they can take their neurodiverse child (and siblings growing up with a special needs family member) on a somewhat normal vacation.
What is next, is the PP going to be upset that amputees get to park closer to the store? That is an unfair advantage while others have to walk farther back in the lot. I mean maybe my feet are hurting too that day, so why should the person with a prosthetic get special treatment. Perhaps they should just stay home and order online groceries instead.
(Obviously this last paragraph is sarcasm).
Umm no one is complaining over people with REAL disabilities getting DAS. There were whole websites that told you how to fake DAS. Lots of blog posts and facebook groups too.
No there was absolutely a poster I was referring to (hopefully only one, but maybe more) saying kids with developmental disabilities shouldn’t be going on Disney vacations and that every kid under 10 could benefit from not waiting in line so why should these kids get a benefit.
As a person who a kid who has SNs and cannot cram in a gazillion rides from sun up to sun down, I’d be fine with a cap or limits on popular rides. I’m just disgusted by certain people saying disabled kids should basically not go at all.
Your reading comprehension is terrible. The statement was that Disney isn't a good vacation choice for a kid who is made upset by noise, crowds and stimulation. DAS doesn't remove those aspects. Disney is still noisy, crowded and over stimulating.
And DAS provides accommodations to help those kid still get to enjoy the magic of a Disney vacation. My son can get dysregulated in certain situations, so we don’t push him to the brink. We make a reasonable ride schedule (he does love the rides). He loves interacting with the characters. We book meal reservations in advance (buffets are great b/c there is no wait and lots of food options for picky eaters). There are multiple pools at many resorts so you can pick a quieter pool to go back and relax at. We also stay on property so we’re close by if we want to take breaks back at your room.
So who are you to say kids like mine can’t have a good vacation at Disney? DAS along with other planning measures on our family’s part allow him to enjoy a family vacation, better in some ways than traveling to places are that less self contained and curated for families.
I am sure there is abuse. I’ll trust Disney’s statistics on it and am fine with a paperwork process since we can easily provide that. But to say DAS doesn’t help with developmental disabilities and that it’s not a good vacation for them is just ignorant of how amazing Disney really is for families including kids with SNs.
You are making a lot of assumptions and drawing conclusions that I never said. Go ahead and keep debating with yourself, because I didn't say those things.
NP here. You actually did say these things, so the pp's conclusions are logical.
Nope. I didn't. The PP is arguing with herself.
They're not. They are disagreeing with an ableist.
Nevermind the post up thread where I shared my own terrible experience at Disney with my daughter who kept melting down and my view that DAS wouldn't have fixed it. I really hate the idea that families are dragging their neurodivergent kid all across Disney to use them for a DAS pass when the whole thing is nothing but stress to the kid. Then parents pat themselves on the back that they avoided a total meltdown but got to ride a ton of rides with DAS. (Not that different than dragging 90 yo grandma around the park.)
My daughter has had fabulous experiences at lower stress parks like Dutch Wonderland where she got to ride tons of rides with no lines, no crowds and no waits. She loved meeting characters at Great Wolf Lodge. Disney is a cluster these days and I really question if going there is even worth it for anyone. It's just so crowded and stressful.
I don't know your kid and if your kid can enjoy Disney with DAS, but I do not think it's an appropriate trip for all kids. It's a stressful place and not at easy vacation at all, and that's even harder for a kid who doesn't do well with crowds, noise, or stimulation. As I experienced with my daughter, her rigidity was also a huge problem when rides closed unexpectedly, we had to wait for buses and then they were packed, or there was a thunderstorm that closed rides and pools. Really, it was awful for her so I don't put a lot into all these rosy stories of neurodiverse kids having a blast.
.
Hi ableist! Kids (and adults) with special needs can love all things Disney, also! It's not just for NT people.
Please let me know where I said something to the contrary. Oh wait. I didn't. Stop putting words in my mouth.
It's the words YOU posted. YOU.
If it was my words, you'd quote them. But I never did, so you can't. All caps doesn't help your case.
There is no 'case'. YOU have been posting ableist, imagined rants throughout this thread. At least, I hope it is just one person doing it. If it's more than one, that's even more pathetic. But I'll quote a few.
I'll just add that I'm sceptical that Disney only offers DAS to convince parents of neurodiverse kids that Disney is still an appropriate vacation for their kid (despite crowds and lines and everything else) so those families don't go spend their money elsewhere. It's really just a marketing tool
Really, it was awful for her so I don't put a lot into all these rosy stories of neurodiverse kids having a blast.
Why are you taking a kid who can't cope in crowded places to Disney? Goodness. Choose a different vacation.
If they’re walking around a park all day on a prosthesis, there’s no reason they can’t stand in line with the same prosthesis.
The prothesis one wasn't me.
I stand by my statement that Disney isn't a good choice of vacations for all neurodiverse kids, whether or not DAS is available. It's insanely crowded and not a good choice for kids who melt down in crowds. It requires an amount of flexibility that may rigid kids don't have. It entails a level of stimulation that many kids can't handle. I also said, which you chose not to quote, that I don't know your kid or whether they actually enjoy Disney. But Disney made my kid absolutely miserable and I stand by that. Not all kids should vacation at Disney.
I never said that "special needs kids can't enjoy Disney", which is what you accused me of saying. I said it's not an appropriate choice for some kids and gave a list of reasons why.
Anonymous wrote:I'm interested in this topic because I will be at WDW a few days after this May 20 change. And I'm wondering what impact there will be so soon after. I'm not sure I understand what's happening. Will it only affect people trying to register for DAS after that date? Presumably other visitors will have already applied using the only rules. Will this lead to a massive increase in demand for Genie+ and will it be harder to purchase the day of and will it be even harder to book any LL? If it's going to be hard to access and use not sure if it's worth it to buy in advance.
That's my question too. Disney is deciding that the system is broken from their perspective, which they can do as long as the parks are ADA-compliant. The current DAS program goes well beyond what is required under the ADA, and people with a wide range of disabilities appreciated that Disney granted them accommodations and have come to expect to be approved for DAS. As a business decision, Disney is scaling back the circumstances under which DAS can be granted, and it will have an impact on those who were outright cheating the system, those who exaggerated their actual conditions, and those who legitimately struggle to access the parks due to a disability. Again, it's a business decision for Disney as long the are not in violation of the ADA. The ADA requires a reasonable accommodation, and regardless of the actual number of DAS holders using LLs, the current system arguably provides a better experience for disabled guests than is available for non-disabled guests, which suggests that the current system may not be reasonable for Disney, whether that is because it creates longer LL lines, standby lines, or hurts their bottom line because fewer people purchase Genie +.
As others have noted, those who are faking conditions or exaggerating to get DAS are the most likely to be heavy users of the LL because they are more likely to spend full days at the parks and be able to cover the most ground. Realistically, many, if not most people who were approved for DAS with actual disabilities that interfere with their ability to stand in long lines aren't the ones who are there from rope drop to close, cris-crossing the park repeatedly to ride as many rides as possible. The hostility exhibited toward those who have used DAS in the past or who plan to in the future seems based on an understanding that everyone asking for DAS is doing it to gain an advantage over non-DAS users without any regard to the challenges their disabilities pose.
But back to your question, from a guest perspective, the anti-DAS people are also assuming that reducing the number of people being granted DAS and reducing the size of their parties will have a positive impact on their experience. The changes should reduce the number of DAS guests in the LLs, with fewer being granted DAS and their party size more limited. However, if Disney's intention or the result of the change is to force more people purchase Genie +, the changes could actually make Genie + an even worse value, with more guests trying to select rides and few popular attractions available at desirable times. I guess part of the answer depends on the extent to which Disney plans for DAS users in LLs by limiting the capacity for Genie + purchasers. IF half the people who formerly used DAS now buy Genie + and another chunk of the population are now in the standby lines (perhaps those who exaggerated conditions and are able to wait in long lines), how is that going to improve the guest experience for everyone else?
There is certainly a lot of imagination at work in this post!
PP who asked about the changes-I recommend that you go to the DISBOARDS and read in the disABILITIES section. The mods there have actual facts about the changes.
I'm only curious about the changes such that they will alter my own plans, as a non DAS user. Should I get Genie+ or not? Will it be overwhelmed making it impossible to use enough to get the value? Will there be any impact to wait times? My trip is a few days after May 20. I was planning to get Genie+ but now I'm not sure.
If you look at the pinned post the PP posted about, it doesn't appear that Genie+ would be impacted. What Disney did say was that Disney Genie (the free one) may be suggested as a way for people who do not qualify for DAS to enjoy more of the magic.
I would continue to plan your trip in the way you were going to, after doing your own planning and research.
I'm not the PP, but how does that answer her question? If anything, that information from the DIS moderators validates the concern that parties that previously used DAS will purchase Genie +, making Genie + attractions less available (and the cost a worse value). If there is no intention or expectation that fewer DAS accommodations for completely undefined "individual circumstances," why is this information about the Tip Board and Genie + included?
The information was about Disney Genie. Genie + is the paid one. Disney says that they will tell people who apply for but are not qualified for Das will be informed how 'Disney Genie' can help them enjoy more of the magic. So presumably, at least some people who no longer get a das might use 'Disney Genie'. No one knows how many may or may not proceed to buy Genie+.
The best thing pp can do is read the pinned post for themselves and decide what they want to do. If 'I' was going and already planning to buy Genie+, I would. But in reality, I never buy it, but that's just my choice.
Disney Genie is stupid, there's no point in talking about it. I have been do DL and know how to use Genie+, but never to WDW and am going there soon. It's a whole different beast there from what I understand.
Anonymous wrote:People really took advantage of the DAS program. I don’t blame Disney for changing it.
I do. People taking advantage of it is no reason to completely take away DAS from physically disabled people. It’s crazy to me that someone with like cerebral palsy or cancer or MS or whatever can’t use this service anymore because they don’t also have autism.
It doesn't sound like the new policy removes all access to physical disabilities. DAS is just excluding people whose issues can be solved with a pass to leave the line and return or a mobility device (e.g., scooter or wheelchair) so they don't have to stand.
Part of the problem is forcing people to use mobility devices when they don't need them under normal circumstances. I've seen several stories about amputees who are perfectly "mobile" but who have difficulty waiting in long lines, especially in heat, as the day progresses because their prosthesis becomes less comfortable and more painful being denied DAS because they could just get a wheelchair. That seems wrong to me.
NP What?! Someone upthread told me that if my toddler can't wait in 30-60 minute lines I shouldn't go to Disney either.
They can get a scooter. There is nothing “wrong” about that.
Huh. You don't think someone with a genuine physical disability that causes significant pain deserves some accommodation? By the way, ECVs cost $65 per day to rent, but I guess those slacker amputees should just deal.
If they’re walking around a park all day on a prosthesis, there’s no reason they can’t stand in line with the same prosthesis. Or sit on the chair/cane. Or lean on the ropes like the rest of us. If they can’t walk around the park all day and can’t stand in line at all, they get a scooter or a wheelchair.
Quit playing the victim here. There are options. You just don’t like them.
NP. By that logic, people with zero physical disabilities who have autism can also just stand in line for hours.
I don’t think that’s true. If an autistic kid can’t stand in line for an hour they may act out or scream or get physical or cause a disturbance to others waiting in line. It’s a completely different scenario.
This. My kid has to eat in a lunch bunch because he cannot even handle the noise and commotion of the cafeteria at school. If he gets overstimulated/dysregulated he may throw himself on the ground and kick. That doesn’t happen often thankfully, but it does on occasion.
In order for our family to go to Disney, we had to pick a less crowded time, select a few must do rides, and basically have a straight forward itinerary to avoid crossing all over the park and having downtime built in. We bought Genie + in conjunction to using DAS and were able to minimize crowd/line time, take meal breaks while waiting for our return time, and get in and out of the park in a shorter time.
I know people pay a lot of money to go to Disney and I appreciate not having to risk a) my kid losing it 80 minutes into a 90 minute wait and then having to give up on the ride and b) disturbing other guests if my kid flails and is upset.
Why are you taking a kid who can't cope in crowded places to Disney? Goodness. Choose a different vacation.
What’s wrong with you? Disney makes an effort to be inclusive. Kids with disabilities deserve to experience the magic of seeing their favorite characters come to life. My son also needed to eat in a lunch bunch during camp, where he gets dysregulated, but loves Disney world. He was obsessed with Toy Story the first time we went, and the castle. He was mesmerized by the fireworks. And all the entertainment was great for his adhd needs - we just have to know when to take breaks from all the stimulation, which we can do in our small family setting. We modify our vacation to meet his needs, but I can’t imagine having him miss out on Disney altogether. I’ve seen autistic people waiting in lines for cosmic rewind, wearing sensory friendly headphones. This is such a spectacularly out of touch comment.
NP What?! Someone upthread told me that if my toddler can't wait in 30-60 minute lines I shouldn't go to Disney either. Don't all kids deserve the magic of Disney? Their lines are untenable for all.
Yes, if you don’t want to wait in long lines you pay for genie+. The same way you pay for premium economy on an airplane. It’s a different than children with disabilities.
We did pay for genie+... the lightning lanes are still 20-30 min long and then you have to wait in other long lines between your genie + rides.
And if your toddler cannot handle that then they cannot handle Disney.
Not really, you can call that ADHD, autism, or anxiety and boom, get a DAS pass. It's apparently very easy. What you can't do is rent a scooter anymore and have it be a disability that qualifies. You don't need a doctor's note or diagnosis to qualify you just have to register for the process and have a video chat.
Also, this is lying. I would never lie about my child’s condition. I am completely honest with Disney about his conditions and behaviors, and they can tell me if that qualifies or not. Shame on people who lie.
And one more point- I wish my son didn’t have the difficulties that make him eligible for a DAS pass. One accommodation on a five day trip to Disney world does not make up for how much harder he needs to work on a daily basis to function in his everyday life. It does not compensate for the impact it has on our family and other child. I wish people understood this and had empathy for families of children with special needs.
This! People are upset over a child with disabilities getting a perceived “perk” over their family. But I’m willing to bet they wouldn’t trade places if they realized the trade offs this accommodation comes with. Want to drop 5k on a neuropsych, out of pocket therapies, calls from the school, IEP meetings, etc. Like my goodness, let the families of special needs kids have something to help them so they can take their neurodiverse child (and siblings growing up with a special needs family member) on a somewhat normal vacation.
What is next, is the PP going to be upset that amputees get to park closer to the store? That is an unfair advantage while others have to walk farther back in the lot. I mean maybe my feet are hurting too that day, so why should the person with a prosthetic get special treatment. Perhaps they should just stay home and order online groceries instead.
(Obviously this last paragraph is sarcasm).
Umm no one is complaining over people with REAL disabilities getting DAS. There were whole websites that told you how to fake DAS. Lots of blog posts and facebook groups too.
No there was absolutely a poster I was referring to (hopefully only one, but maybe more) saying kids with developmental disabilities shouldn’t be going on Disney vacations and that every kid under 10 could benefit from not waiting in line so why should these kids get a benefit.
As a person who a kid who has SNs and cannot cram in a gazillion rides from sun up to sun down, I’d be fine with a cap or limits on popular rides. I’m just disgusted by certain people saying disabled kids should basically not go at all.
Your reading comprehension is terrible. The statement was that Disney isn't a good vacation choice for a kid who is made upset by noise, crowds and stimulation. DAS doesn't remove those aspects. Disney is still noisy, crowded and over stimulating.
And DAS provides accommodations to help those kid still get to enjoy the magic of a Disney vacation. My son can get dysregulated in certain situations, so we don’t push him to the brink. We make a reasonable ride schedule (he does love the rides). He loves interacting with the characters. We book meal reservations in advance (buffets are great b/c there is no wait and lots of food options for picky eaters). There are multiple pools at many resorts so you can pick a quieter pool to go back and relax at. We also stay on property so we’re close by if we want to take breaks back at your room.
So who are you to say kids like mine can’t have a good vacation at Disney? DAS along with other planning measures on our family’s part allow him to enjoy a family vacation, better in some ways than traveling to places are that less self contained and curated for families.
I am sure there is abuse. I’ll trust Disney’s statistics on it and am fine with a paperwork process since we can easily provide that. But to say DAS doesn’t help with developmental disabilities and that it’s not a good vacation for them is just ignorant of how amazing Disney really is for families including kids with SNs.
You are making a lot of assumptions and drawing conclusions that I never said. Go ahead and keep debating with yourself, because I didn't say those things.
NP here. You actually did say these things, so the pp's conclusions are logical.
Nope. I didn't. The PP is arguing with herself.
They're not. They are disagreeing with an ableist.
Nevermind the post up thread where I shared my own terrible experience at Disney with my daughter who kept melting down and my view that DAS wouldn't have fixed it. I really hate the idea that families are dragging their neurodivergent kid all across Disney to use them for a DAS pass when the whole thing is nothing but stress to the kid. Then parents pat themselves on the back that they avoided a total meltdown but got to ride a ton of rides with DAS. (Not that different than dragging 90 yo grandma around the park.)
My daughter has had fabulous experiences at lower stress parks like Dutch Wonderland where she got to ride tons of rides with no lines, no crowds and no waits. She loved meeting characters at Great Wolf Lodge. Disney is a cluster these days and I really question if going there is even worth it for anyone. It's just so crowded and stressful.
I don't know your kid and if your kid can enjoy Disney with DAS, but I do not think it's an appropriate trip for all kids. It's a stressful place and not at easy vacation at all, and that's even harder for a kid who doesn't do well with crowds, noise, or stimulation. As I experienced with my daughter, her rigidity was also a huge problem when rides closed unexpectedly, we had to wait for buses and then they were packed, or there was a thunderstorm that closed rides and pools. Really, it was awful for her so I don't put a lot into all these rosy stories of neurodiverse kids having a blast.
.
Hi ableist! Kids (and adults) with special needs can love all things Disney, also! It's not just for NT people.
Please let me know where I said something to the contrary. Oh wait. I didn't. Stop putting words in my mouth.
It's the words YOU posted. YOU.
If it was my words, you'd quote them. But I never did, so you can't. All caps doesn't help your case.
There is no 'case'. YOU have been posting ableist, imagined rants throughout this thread. At least, I hope it is just one person doing it. If it's more than one, that's even more pathetic. But I'll quote a few.
I'll just add that I'm sceptical that Disney only offers DAS to convince parents of neurodiverse kids that Disney is still an appropriate vacation for their kid (despite crowds and lines and everything else) so those families don't go spend their money elsewhere. It's really just a marketing tool
Really, it was awful for her so I don't put a lot into all these rosy stories of neurodiverse kids having a blast.
Why are you taking a kid who can't cope in crowded places to Disney? Goodness. Choose a different vacation.
If they’re walking around a park all day on a prosthesis, there’s no reason they can’t stand in line with the same prosthesis.
The prothesis one wasn't me.
I stand by my statement that Disney isn't a good choice of vacations for all neurodiverse kids, whether or not DAS is available. It's insanely crowded and not a good choice for kids who melt down in crowds. It requires an amount of flexibility that may rigid kids don't have. It entails a level of stimulation that many kids can't handle. I also said, which you chose not to quote, that I don't know your kid or whether they actually enjoy Disney. But Disney made my kid absolutely miserable and I stand by that. Not all kids should vacation at Disney.
I never said that "special needs kids can't enjoy Disney", which is what you accused me of saying. I said it's not an appropriate choice for some kids and gave a list of reasons why.
And you just demonstrated your ableism!
Ok, so you have every right to take your kid on vacations that make them miserable. That's your right. Have a great time.
Disney isn't going to make their parks less stimulating, reduce crowds, reduce noice, or prevent situations like ride closures that require flexibility. It's not possible. I choose to take my family on vacations where we all can have a fabulous time, not just those who aren't neurodiverse.
Anonymous wrote:People really took advantage of the DAS program. I don’t blame Disney for changing it.
I do. People taking advantage of it is no reason to completely take away DAS from physically disabled people. It’s crazy to me that someone with like cerebral palsy or cancer or MS or whatever can’t use this service anymore because they don’t also have autism.
It doesn't sound like the new policy removes all access to physical disabilities. DAS is just excluding people whose issues can be solved with a pass to leave the line and return or a mobility device (e.g., scooter or wheelchair) so they don't have to stand.
Part of the problem is forcing people to use mobility devices when they don't need them under normal circumstances. I've seen several stories about amputees who are perfectly "mobile" but who have difficulty waiting in long lines, especially in heat, as the day progresses because their prosthesis becomes less comfortable and more painful being denied DAS because they could just get a wheelchair. That seems wrong to me.
NP What?! Someone upthread told me that if my toddler can't wait in 30-60 minute lines I shouldn't go to Disney either.
They can get a scooter. There is nothing “wrong” about that.
Huh. You don't think someone with a genuine physical disability that causes significant pain deserves some accommodation? By the way, ECVs cost $65 per day to rent, but I guess those slacker amputees should just deal.
If they’re walking around a park all day on a prosthesis, there’s no reason they can’t stand in line with the same prosthesis. Or sit on the chair/cane. Or lean on the ropes like the rest of us. If they can’t walk around the park all day and can’t stand in line at all, they get a scooter or a wheelchair.
Quit playing the victim here. There are options. You just don’t like them.
NP. By that logic, people with zero physical disabilities who have autism can also just stand in line for hours.
I don’t think that’s true. If an autistic kid can’t stand in line for an hour they may act out or scream or get physical or cause a disturbance to others waiting in line. It’s a completely different scenario.
This. My kid has to eat in a lunch bunch because he cannot even handle the noise and commotion of the cafeteria at school. If he gets overstimulated/dysregulated he may throw himself on the ground and kick. That doesn’t happen often thankfully, but it does on occasion.
In order for our family to go to Disney, we had to pick a less crowded time, select a few must do rides, and basically have a straight forward itinerary to avoid crossing all over the park and having downtime built in. We bought Genie + in conjunction to using DAS and were able to minimize crowd/line time, take meal breaks while waiting for our return time, and get in and out of the park in a shorter time.
I know people pay a lot of money to go to Disney and I appreciate not having to risk a) my kid losing it 80 minutes into a 90 minute wait and then having to give up on the ride and b) disturbing other guests if my kid flails and is upset.
Why are you taking a kid who can't cope in crowded places to Disney? Goodness. Choose a different vacation.
What’s wrong with you? Disney makes an effort to be inclusive. Kids with disabilities deserve to experience the magic of seeing their favorite characters come to life. My son also needed to eat in a lunch bunch during camp, where he gets dysregulated, but loves Disney world. He was obsessed with Toy Story the first time we went, and the castle. He was mesmerized by the fireworks. And all the entertainment was great for his adhd needs - we just have to know when to take breaks from all the stimulation, which we can do in our small family setting. We modify our vacation to meet his needs, but I can’t imagine having him miss out on Disney altogether. I’ve seen autistic people waiting in lines for cosmic rewind, wearing sensory friendly headphones. This is such a spectacularly out of touch comment.
NP What?! Someone upthread told me that if my toddler can't wait in 30-60 minute lines I shouldn't go to Disney either. Don't all kids deserve the magic of Disney? Their lines are untenable for all.
Yes, if you don’t want to wait in long lines you pay for genie+. The same way you pay for premium economy on an airplane. It’s a different than children with disabilities.
We did pay for genie+... the lightning lanes are still 20-30 min long and then you have to wait in other long lines between your genie + rides.
And if your toddler cannot handle that then they cannot handle Disney.
Not really, you can call that ADHD, autism, or anxiety and boom, get a DAS pass. It's apparently very easy. What you can't do is rent a scooter anymore and have it be a disability that qualifies. You don't need a doctor's note or diagnosis to qualify you just have to register for the process and have a video chat.
Also, this is lying. I would never lie about my child’s condition. I am completely honest with Disney about his conditions and behaviors, and they can tell me if that qualifies or not. Shame on people who lie.
And one more point- I wish my son didn’t have the difficulties that make him eligible for a DAS pass. One accommodation on a five day trip to Disney world does not make up for how much harder he needs to work on a daily basis to function in his everyday life. It does not compensate for the impact it has on our family and other child. I wish people understood this and had empathy for families of children with special needs.
This! People are upset over a child with disabilities getting a perceived “perk” over their family. But I’m willing to bet they wouldn’t trade places if they realized the trade offs this accommodation comes with. Want to drop 5k on a neuropsych, out of pocket therapies, calls from the school, IEP meetings, etc. Like my goodness, let the families of special needs kids have something to help them so they can take their neurodiverse child (and siblings growing up with a special needs family member) on a somewhat normal vacation.
What is next, is the PP going to be upset that amputees get to park closer to the store? That is an unfair advantage while others have to walk farther back in the lot. I mean maybe my feet are hurting too that day, so why should the person with a prosthetic get special treatment. Perhaps they should just stay home and order online groceries instead.
(Obviously this last paragraph is sarcasm).
Umm no one is complaining over people with REAL disabilities getting DAS. There were whole websites that told you how to fake DAS. Lots of blog posts and facebook groups too.
No there was absolutely a poster I was referring to (hopefully only one, but maybe more) saying kids with developmental disabilities shouldn’t be going on Disney vacations and that every kid under 10 could benefit from not waiting in line so why should these kids get a benefit.
As a person who a kid who has SNs and cannot cram in a gazillion rides from sun up to sun down, I’d be fine with a cap or limits on popular rides. I’m just disgusted by certain people saying disabled kids should basically not go at all.
Your reading comprehension is terrible. The statement was that Disney isn't a good vacation choice for a kid who is made upset by noise, crowds and stimulation. DAS doesn't remove those aspects. Disney is still noisy, crowded and over stimulating.
And DAS provides accommodations to help those kid still get to enjoy the magic of a Disney vacation. My son can get dysregulated in certain situations, so we don’t push him to the brink. We make a reasonable ride schedule (he does love the rides). He loves interacting with the characters. We book meal reservations in advance (buffets are great b/c there is no wait and lots of food options for picky eaters). There are multiple pools at many resorts so you can pick a quieter pool to go back and relax at. We also stay on property so we’re close by if we want to take breaks back at your room.
So who are you to say kids like mine can’t have a good vacation at Disney? DAS along with other planning measures on our family’s part allow him to enjoy a family vacation, better in some ways than traveling to places are that less self contained and curated for families.
I am sure there is abuse. I’ll trust Disney’s statistics on it and am fine with a paperwork process since we can easily provide that. But to say DAS doesn’t help with developmental disabilities and that it’s not a good vacation for them is just ignorant of how amazing Disney really is for families including kids with SNs.
You are making a lot of assumptions and drawing conclusions that I never said. Go ahead and keep debating with yourself, because I didn't say those things.
NP here. You actually did say these things, so the pp's conclusions are logical.
Nope. I didn't. The PP is arguing with herself.
They're not. They are disagreeing with an ableist.
Nevermind the post up thread where I shared my own terrible experience at Disney with my daughter who kept melting down and my view that DAS wouldn't have fixed it. I really hate the idea that families are dragging their neurodivergent kid all across Disney to use them for a DAS pass when the whole thing is nothing but stress to the kid. Then parents pat themselves on the back that they avoided a total meltdown but got to ride a ton of rides with DAS. (Not that different than dragging 90 yo grandma around the park.)
My daughter has had fabulous experiences at lower stress parks like Dutch Wonderland where she got to ride tons of rides with no lines, no crowds and no waits. She loved meeting characters at Great Wolf Lodge. Disney is a cluster these days and I really question if going there is even worth it for anyone. It's just so crowded and stressful.
I don't know your kid and if your kid can enjoy Disney with DAS, but I do not think it's an appropriate trip for all kids. It's a stressful place and not at easy vacation at all, and that's even harder for a kid who doesn't do well with crowds, noise, or stimulation. As I experienced with my daughter, her rigidity was also a huge problem when rides closed unexpectedly, we had to wait for buses and then they were packed, or there was a thunderstorm that closed rides and pools. Really, it was awful for her so I don't put a lot into all these rosy stories of neurodiverse kids having a blast.
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Hi ableist! Kids (and adults) with special needs can love all things Disney, also! It's not just for NT people.
Please let me know where I said something to the contrary. Oh wait. I didn't. Stop putting words in my mouth.
It's the words YOU posted. YOU.
If it was my words, you'd quote them. But I never did, so you can't. All caps doesn't help your case.
There is no 'case'. YOU have been posting ableist, imagined rants throughout this thread. At least, I hope it is just one person doing it. If it's more than one, that's even more pathetic. But I'll quote a few.
I'll just add that I'm sceptical that Disney only offers DAS to convince parents of neurodiverse kids that Disney is still an appropriate vacation for their kid (despite crowds and lines and everything else) so those families don't go spend their money elsewhere. It's really just a marketing tool
Really, it was awful for her so I don't put a lot into all these rosy stories of neurodiverse kids having a blast.
Why are you taking a kid who can't cope in crowded places to Disney? Goodness. Choose a different vacation.
If they’re walking around a park all day on a prosthesis, there’s no reason they can’t stand in line with the same prosthesis.
The prothesis one wasn't me.
I stand by my statement that Disney isn't a good choice of vacations for all neurodiverse kids, whether or not DAS is available. It's insanely crowded and not a good choice for kids who melt down in crowds. It requires an amount of flexibility that may rigid kids don't have. It entails a level of stimulation that many kids can't handle. I also said, which you chose not to quote, that I don't know your kid or whether they actually enjoy Disney. But Disney made my kid absolutely miserable and I stand by that. Not all kids should vacation at Disney.
I never said that "special needs kids can't enjoy Disney", which is what you accused me of saying. I said it's not an appropriate choice for some kids and gave a list of reasons why.
And you just demonstrated your ableism!
Ok, so you have every right to take your kid on vacations that make them miserable. That's your right. Have a great time.
Disney isn't going to make their parks less stimulating, reduce crowds, reduce noice, or prevent situations like ride closures that require flexibility. It's not possible. I choose to take my family on vacations where we all can have a fabulous time, not just those who aren't neurodiverse.
I'm a DP who doesn't have a child with a developmental disability, so I have no personal stake in this debate. You aren't considering the fact that families often include neurotypical siblings who are able to enjoy Disney without a struggle and whose lives constantly be impacted by managing their siblings' disability (if it is serious enough). Is it really so horrible to give a family that manages a child's disability the opportunity to make it more likely the then entire family can have a good vacation?
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