APS boundary process this fall?

Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Just kill Montessori once and for all


+1


Get over yourselves haters. Really. We’re not closing Montessori, ATS, HB Woodlawn, Career Center or probably any other choice program. Too much demand and they are too useful to the overall system. Oh, and they represent great things for kids who go there. Can they move around? Sure. Do they get everything they want? No. But APS would do better to shut down a couple of neighborhood schools before shutting down these choice schools. P.S. - at best you are like 25% of the voting population, according to the past several bond approvals, so keep in mind we know you are a protest vote. Believe it or not, I think that’s great to vote your voice. But. It’s. A. Minority.
Anonymous
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Anonymous wrote:Didn’t immersion serve a dedicated Hispanic ESL population when it was a neighborhood school, Key ES at its original Courthouse location? It moved and became an option program because upper middle class families wanted more room for their kids in the program.

I doubt all immersion families truly value the original purpose of immersion, to help ESL students. It’s become a prized option program.

Uh no, the Key community didn't want to move. APS wanted to put a neighborhood elementary school at the Key location and forced the move. Key still follows the 50/50 model that it did before the move. That hasn't changed at all.


And did it die like you cried when they moved Key to the former ATS site? No. MS can also move without destroying the program. It’s not serving the largest populations of ESL kids now at any level from K-12, who are in the South Arlington neighborhood schools, schools which you want to further segregate and impoverish for your own selfish convenience.


No, but the move forced us to go from 6 K classes to 4 due to reduced building size. So APS shrunk the immersion program with the move. That is a big part of why we fought the move.


But they objections were that the Hispanic families (in particular ESL) wouldn’t follow the program and would just stay at the neighborhood school. If that hasn’t actually happened, then you can’t really cry foul about moving the location of the MS program. Yes, it’s less convenient for the kids who come up from Claremont and make up the current majority of the MS program, but it might mean attracting more Key students who currently don’t want the long commute to Gunston to stay in immersion. It may change who opts to stay in the program long term, but if it’s still attracting kids from both English and Spanish speaking families, I don’t think it matters whether they come from the Claremont or Key community. And if the program itself isn’t harmed by a move, and I argue that it would not be harmed just like Key was not harmed, it is the simplest and least disruptive way to address the imbalance of population at the MS level.


For those who are advocating moving the middle school immersion program, I want to make sure you known there’s also a high school immersion program. That program is located at Wakefield. Are you all also proposing to move that program, or are you saying immersion kids should just go Key or Claremont/Williamsburg/Wakefield? It isn’t simple and it is disruptive to move the middle school program 20 minutes away, especially without a coherent plan for the high school program.




Wakefield is also very overcrowded, so perhaps that should be on the table during boundary discussions! It’s almost an entirely self-contained program. Kids in Immersion only take PE in 9/10 and their one elective and have lunch with non-immersion students. I’m not sure it would matter if they are at Wakefield or Yorktown since they’re an entity unto themselves and pretty much have their own friend groups, the kids they were friends with in the ES and MS Immersion programs. There just isn’t a ton of mixing about. Do you have a kid this age yet? Just wait and see.


How many immersion students continue with the program through high school? Is it the majority? Does it entail a transfer, or is it guaranteed admission to Wakefield?


It was only 25 students to Senior level. None of this is even worth the discussion.

The immersion program could be closed tomorrow. The Hispanic families don’t care, they have to be lured in, and simply pick the closest school in most cases. The other families are only avoiding some other school until it is not necessary anymore, even if they rationalize otherwise. This explains the drop to 25 seniors.


Where did you come up with 25 seniors? Pretty sure that’s wrong.

And I’m so, so tired of the narrative that parents choose immersion to avoid S Arlington schools. Key is choked full of kids zoned for Taylor, Glebe, ASFS, Innovation, etc. I know plenty of families zoned for Hamm & Yorktown who send their kids to Gunston & Wakefield.


DP here - the most recent transfer report shows the number coming into Gunston and Wakefield for DLI (Dual Language Immersion) per grade. It's not the total program size, just the number coming in from other schools

6th - 87
7th - 97
8th - 63
9th - 38
10th - 32
11th - 14
12th - 18

So that's probably mostly Key students, as a lot of Claremont students are already zoned for Gunston/Wakefield, and those students are the most likely to stay with the program as it's at their home schools.

By 11th and 12th, students are very focused on AP or IB for college admissions, and many immersion students will already have taken their Spanish APs in 9th or 10th. It's not that surprising that the program winds down a bit at that point. Immersion students are already fluent at that point and can use their Spanish skills outside of the classroom or in dual credit courses. I'm not sure I understand the criticism.


Yeah, there aren’t really any immersion classes left to take by 12th grade. You’re mostly taking APs. And as noted, kids zoned for Claremont are also zoned for Gunston/Wakefield.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Just kill Montessori once and for all


+1


Get over yourselves haters. Really. We’re not closing Montessori, ATS, HB Woodlawn, Career Center or probably any other choice program. Too much demand and they are too useful to the overall system. Oh, and they represent great things for kids who go there. Can they move around? Sure. Do they get everything they want? No. But APS would do better to shut down a couple of neighborhood schools before shutting down these choice schools. P.S. - at best you are like 25% of the voting population, according to the past several bond approvals, so keep in mind we know you are a protest vote. Believe it or not, I think that’s great to vote your voice. But. It’s. A. Minority.


Which neighborhood schools?
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Sorry the handful of tuckahoe planning units and the one Nottingham one aren’t going to be enough. Time to get some more people currently in zone to Williamsburg to start using public again.



Hahaha. That’s not happening. We see major public school flight and that’s trending one direction.


I think once people experience private school, they are never sending their kids back to any Arlington school. Doesn't matter how "fancy" the zip code. The only people who might come back are the ones who really have to stretch for tuition. They need to bus the Rosslyn PUs to Williamsburg. Don't those kids already go to Yorktown anyway?
Anonymous
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Anonymous wrote:Didn’t immersion serve a dedicated Hispanic ESL population when it was a neighborhood school, Key ES at its original Courthouse location? It moved and became an option program because upper middle class families wanted more room for their kids in the program.

I doubt all immersion families truly value the original purpose of immersion, to help ESL students. It’s become a prized option program.

Uh no, the Key community didn't want to move. APS wanted to put a neighborhood elementary school at the Key location and forced the move. Key still follows the 50/50 model that it did before the move. That hasn't changed at all.


And did it die like you cried when they moved Key to the former ATS site? No. MS can also move without destroying the program. It’s not serving the largest populations of ESL kids now at any level from K-12, who are in the South Arlington neighborhood schools, schools which you want to further segregate and impoverish for your own selfish convenience.


No, but the move forced us to go from 6 K classes to 4 due to reduced building size. So APS shrunk the immersion program with the move. That is a big part of why we fought the move.


But they objections were that the Hispanic families (in particular ESL) wouldn’t follow the program and would just stay at the neighborhood school. If that hasn’t actually happened, then you can’t really cry foul about moving the location of the MS program. Yes, it’s less convenient for the kids who come up from Claremont and make up the current majority of the MS program, but it might mean attracting more Key students who currently don’t want the long commute to Gunston to stay in immersion. It may change who opts to stay in the program long term, but if it’s still attracting kids from both English and Spanish speaking families, I don’t think it matters whether they come from the Claremont or Key community. And if the program itself isn’t harmed by a move, and I argue that it would not be harmed just like Key was not harmed, it is the simplest and least disruptive way to address the imbalance of population at the MS level.


For those who are advocating moving the middle school immersion program, I want to make sure you known there’s also a high school immersion program. That program is located at Wakefield. Are you all also proposing to move that program, or are you saying immersion kids should just go Key or Claremont/Williamsburg/Wakefield? It isn’t simple and it is disruptive to move the middle school program 20 minutes away, especially without a coherent plan for the high school program.




Wakefield is also very overcrowded, so perhaps that should be on the table during boundary discussions! It’s almost an entirely self-contained program. Kids in Immersion only take PE in 9/10 and their one elective and have lunch with non-immersion students. I’m not sure it would matter if they are at Wakefield or Yorktown since they’re an entity unto themselves and pretty much have their own friend groups, the kids they were friends with in the ES and MS Immersion programs. There just isn’t a ton of mixing about. Do you have a kid this age yet? Just wait and see.


How many immersion students continue with the program through high school? Is it the majority? Does it entail a transfer, or is it guaranteed admission to Wakefield?


It was only 25 students to Senior level. None of this is even worth the discussion.

The immersion program could be closed tomorrow. The Hispanic families don’t care, they have to be lured in, and simply pick the closest school in most cases. The other families are only avoiding some other school until it is not necessary anymore, even if they rationalize otherwise. This explains the drop to 25 seniors.


Where did you come up with 25 seniors? Pretty sure that’s wrong.

And I’m so, so tired of the narrative that parents choose immersion to avoid S Arlington schools. Key is choked full of kids zoned for Taylor, Glebe, ASFS, Innovation, etc. I know plenty of families zoned for Hamm & Yorktown who send their kids to Gunston & Wakefield.


Of course Key is full of North Arlington kids. That's who zoned for that school. https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/sites/57/2024/08/ES_Boundaries_SY24_25_V2.pdf


Yes, of course. Point is that it doesn’t fit with PP’s narrative that no one actually wants their kids to be bilingual, they’re just avoiding “bad” schools.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Move MS immersion to WMS and HS to Yorktown.


That would kill the program - and we can leave aside the question of the program’s value - so it’s not a solution. (If the program dies a couple years after a move like this, then we’ll just be in the same place we’re in now in two years.)

Moving and expanding HB is a much better long-term solution; so many people want those seats that they will go wherever the program is. The program will thrive wherever it is.


Well the move won't happen for at least 2 years most likely, and given that you are talking 4 years out -- and the county is projecting a drop in enrollment by that time.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
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Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Didn’t immersion serve a dedicated Hispanic ESL population when it was a neighborhood school, Key ES at its original Courthouse location? It moved and became an option program because upper middle class families wanted more room for their kids in the program.

I doubt all immersion families truly value the original purpose of immersion, to help ESL students. It’s become a prized option program.

Uh no, the Key community didn't want to move. APS wanted to put a neighborhood elementary school at the Key location and forced the move. Key still follows the 50/50 model that it did before the move. That hasn't changed at all.


And did it die like you cried when they moved Key to the former ATS site? No. MS can also move without destroying the program. It’s not serving the largest populations of ESL kids now at any level from K-12, who are in the South Arlington neighborhood schools, schools which you want to further segregate and impoverish for your own selfish convenience.


No, but the move forced us to go from 6 K classes to 4 due to reduced building size. So APS shrunk the immersion program with the move. That is a big part of why we fought the move.


But they objections were that the Hispanic families (in particular ESL) wouldn’t follow the program and would just stay at the neighborhood school. If that hasn’t actually happened, then you can’t really cry foul about moving the location of the MS program. Yes, it’s less convenient for the kids who come up from Claremont and make up the current majority of the MS program, but it might mean attracting more Key students who currently don’t want the long commute to Gunston to stay in immersion. It may change who opts to stay in the program long term, but if it’s still attracting kids from both English and Spanish speaking families, I don’t think it matters whether they come from the Claremont or Key community. And if the program itself isn’t harmed by a move, and I argue that it would not be harmed just like Key was not harmed, it is the simplest and least disruptive way to address the imbalance of population at the MS level.


For those who are advocating moving the middle school immersion program, I want to make sure you known there’s also a high school immersion program. That program is located at Wakefield. Are you all also proposing to move that program, or are you saying immersion kids should just go Key or Claremont/Williamsburg/Wakefield? It isn’t simple and it is disruptive to move the middle school program 20 minutes away, especially without a coherent plan for the high school program.




Wakefield is also very overcrowded, so perhaps that should be on the table during boundary discussions! It’s almost an entirely self-contained program. Kids in Immersion only take PE in 9/10 and their one elective and have lunch with non-immersion students. I’m not sure it would matter if they are at Wakefield or Yorktown since they’re an entity unto themselves and pretty much have their own friend groups, the kids they were friends with in the ES and MS Immersion programs. There just isn’t a ton of mixing about. Do you have a kid this age yet? Just wait and see.


How many immersion students continue with the program through high school? Is it the majority? Does it entail a transfer, or is it guaranteed admission to Wakefield?


It was only 25 students to Senior level. None of this is even worth the discussion.

The immersion program could be closed tomorrow. The Hispanic families don’t care, they have to be lured in, and simply pick the closest school in most cases. The other families are only avoiding some other school until it is not necessary anymore, even if they rationalize otherwise. This explains the drop to 25 seniors.


Where did you come up with 25 seniors? Pretty sure that’s wrong.

And I’m so, so tired of the narrative that parents choose immersion to avoid S Arlington schools. Key is choked full of kids zoned for Taylor, Glebe, ASFS, Innovation, etc. I know plenty of families zoned for Hamm & Yorktown who send their kids to Gunston & Wakefield.


Of course Key is full of North Arlington kids. That's who zoned for that school. https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/sites/57/2024/08/ES_Boundaries_SY24_25_V2.pdf


Yes, of course. Point is that it doesn’t fit with PP’s narrative that no one actually wants their kids to be bilingual, they’re just avoiding “bad” schools.


It also doesn't fit the narrative that moving the programs north will kill the program .
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Move MS immersion to WMS and HS to Yorktown.


That would kill the program - and we can leave aside the question of the program’s value - so it’s not a solution. (If the program dies a couple years after a move like this, then we’ll just be in the same place we’re in now in two years.)

Moving and expanding HB is a much better long-term solution; so many people want those seats that they will go wherever the program is. The program will thrive wherever it is.


They will never move HB, though I wish they would just move it and offer it to more students. What could go in the HB building? I can't remember where I read this (CIP report appendix?) but the housing development that will create the most seats in the next 5ish years is that Marbella affordable housing development in Rosslyn. Would they potentially make a neighborhood school there?


This is insane. HB was already forced to move to the Rosslyn site against its wishes. That was because no one else wanted that site. And now you're eyeing it? Not gonna happen. hands off.

You would hate it anyways.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Move MS immersion to WMS and HS to Yorktown.


That would kill the program - and we can leave aside the question of the program’s value - so it’s not a solution. (If the program dies a couple years after a move like this, then we’ll just be in the same place we’re in now in two years.)

Moving and expanding HB is a much better long-term solution; so many people want those seats that they will go wherever the program is. The program will thrive wherever it is.


They will never move HB, though I wish they would just move it and offer it to more students. What could go in the HB building? I can't remember where I read this (CIP report appendix?) but the housing development that will create the most seats in the next 5ish years is that Marbella affordable housing development in Rosslyn. Would they potentially make a neighborhood school there?


This is insane. HB was already forced to move to the Rosslyn site against its wishes. That was because no one else wanted that site. And now you're eyeing it? Not gonna happen. hands off.

You would hate it anyways.


You sound nuts.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
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Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Didn’t immersion serve a dedicated Hispanic ESL population when it was a neighborhood school, Key ES at its original Courthouse location? It moved and became an option program because upper middle class families wanted more room for their kids in the program.

I doubt all immersion families truly value the original purpose of immersion, to help ESL students. It’s become a prized option program.

Uh no, the Key community didn't want to move. APS wanted to put a neighborhood elementary school at the Key location and forced the move. Key still follows the 50/50 model that it did before the move. That hasn't changed at all.


And did it die like you cried when they moved Key to the former ATS site? No. MS can also move without destroying the program. It’s not serving the largest populations of ESL kids now at any level from K-12, who are in the South Arlington neighborhood schools, schools which you want to further segregate and impoverish for your own selfish convenience.


No, but the move forced us to go from 6 K classes to 4 due to reduced building size. So APS shrunk the immersion program with the move. That is a big part of why we fought the move.


But they objections were that the Hispanic families (in particular ESL) wouldn’t follow the program and would just stay at the neighborhood school. If that hasn’t actually happened, then you can’t really cry foul about moving the location of the MS program. Yes, it’s less convenient for the kids who come up from Claremont and make up the current majority of the MS program, but it might mean attracting more Key students who currently don’t want the long commute to Gunston to stay in immersion. It may change who opts to stay in the program long term, but if it’s still attracting kids from both English and Spanish speaking families, I don’t think it matters whether they come from the Claremont or Key community. And if the program itself isn’t harmed by a move, and I argue that it would not be harmed just like Key was not harmed, it is the simplest and least disruptive way to address the imbalance of population at the MS level.


For those who are advocating moving the middle school immersion program, I want to make sure you known there’s also a high school immersion program. That program is located at Wakefield. Are you all also proposing to move that program, or are you saying immersion kids should just go Key or Claremont/Williamsburg/Wakefield? It isn’t simple and it is disruptive to move the middle school program 20 minutes away, especially without a coherent plan for the high school program.




Wakefield is also very overcrowded, so perhaps that should be on the table during boundary discussions! It’s almost an entirely self-contained program. Kids in Immersion only take PE in 9/10 and their one elective and have lunch with non-immersion students. I’m not sure it would matter if they are at Wakefield or Yorktown since they’re an entity unto themselves and pretty much have their own friend groups, the kids they were friends with in the ES and MS Immersion programs. There just isn’t a ton of mixing about. Do you have a kid this age yet? Just wait and see.


How many immersion students continue with the program through high school? Is it the majority? Does it entail a transfer, or is it guaranteed admission to Wakefield?


It was only 25 students to Senior level. None of this is even worth the discussion.

The immersion program could be closed tomorrow. The Hispanic families don’t care, they have to be lured in, and simply pick the closest school in most cases. The other families are only avoiding some other school until it is not necessary anymore, even if they rationalize otherwise. This explains the drop to 25 seniors.


Where did you come up with 25 seniors? Pretty sure that’s wrong.

And I’m so, so tired of the narrative that parents choose immersion to avoid S Arlington schools. Key is choked full of kids zoned for Taylor, Glebe, ASFS, Innovation, etc. I know plenty of families zoned for Hamm & Yorktown who send their kids to Gunston & Wakefield.


Of course Key is full of North Arlington kids. That's who zoned for that school. https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/sites/57/2024/08/ES_Boundaries_SY24_25_V2.pdf


Yes, of course. Point is that it doesn’t fit with PP’s narrative that no one actually wants their kids to be bilingual, they’re just avoiding “bad” schools.


It also doesn't fit the narrative that moving the programs north will kill the program .
Moving north to central-ish Arlington is fine, especially if near neighborhoods with Hispanic populations. Key is roughly in the middle of the county. Williamsburg isn't in the middle and isn't at all near any Spanish-speaking communities.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
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Anonymous wrote:
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Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Didn’t immersion serve a dedicated Hispanic ESL population when it was a neighborhood school, Key ES at its original Courthouse location? It moved and became an option program because upper middle class families wanted more room for their kids in the program.

I doubt all immersion families truly value the original purpose of immersion, to help ESL students. It’s become a prized option program.

Uh no, the Key community didn't want to move. APS wanted to put a neighborhood elementary school at the Key location and forced the move. Key still follows the 50/50 model that it did before the move. That hasn't changed at all.


And did it die like you cried when they moved Key to the former ATS site? No. MS can also move without destroying the program. It’s not serving the largest populations of ESL kids now at any level from K-12, who are in the South Arlington neighborhood schools, schools which you want to further segregate and impoverish for your own selfish convenience.


No, but the move forced us to go from 6 K classes to 4 due to reduced building size. So APS shrunk the immersion program with the move. That is a big part of why we fought the move.


But they objections were that the Hispanic families (in particular ESL) wouldn’t follow the program and would just stay at the neighborhood school. If that hasn’t actually happened, then you can’t really cry foul about moving the location of the MS program. Yes, it’s less convenient for the kids who come up from Claremont and make up the current majority of the MS program, but it might mean attracting more Key students who currently don’t want the long commute to Gunston to stay in immersion. It may change who opts to stay in the program long term, but if it’s still attracting kids from both English and Spanish speaking families, I don’t think it matters whether they come from the Claremont or Key community. And if the program itself isn’t harmed by a move, and I argue that it would not be harmed just like Key was not harmed, it is the simplest and least disruptive way to address the imbalance of population at the MS level.


For those who are advocating moving the middle school immersion program, I want to make sure you known there’s also a high school immersion program. That program is located at Wakefield. Are you all also proposing to move that program, or are you saying immersion kids should just go Key or Claremont/Williamsburg/Wakefield? It isn’t simple and it is disruptive to move the middle school program 20 minutes away, especially without a coherent plan for the high school program.




Wakefield is also very overcrowded, so perhaps that should be on the table during boundary discussions! It’s almost an entirely self-contained program. Kids in Immersion only take PE in 9/10 and their one elective and have lunch with non-immersion students. I’m not sure it would matter if they are at Wakefield or Yorktown since they’re an entity unto themselves and pretty much have their own friend groups, the kids they were friends with in the ES and MS Immersion programs. There just isn’t a ton of mixing about. Do you have a kid this age yet? Just wait and see.


How many immersion students continue with the program through high school? Is it the majority? Does it entail a transfer, or is it guaranteed admission to Wakefield?


It was only 25 students to Senior level. None of this is even worth the discussion.

The immersion program could be closed tomorrow. The Hispanic families don’t care, they have to be lured in, and simply pick the closest school in most cases. The other families are only avoiding some other school until it is not necessary anymore, even if they rationalize otherwise. This explains the drop to 25 seniors.


Where did you come up with 25 seniors? Pretty sure that’s wrong.

And I’m so, so tired of the narrative that parents choose immersion to avoid S Arlington schools. Key is choked full of kids zoned for Taylor, Glebe, ASFS, Innovation, etc. I know plenty of families zoned for Hamm & Yorktown who send their kids to Gunston & Wakefield.


Of course Key is full of North Arlington kids. That's who zoned for that school. https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/sites/57/2024/08/ES_Boundaries_SY24_25_V2.pdf


Yes, of course. Point is that it doesn’t fit with PP’s narrative that no one actually wants their kids to be bilingual, they’re just avoiding “bad” schools.


It also doesn't fit the narrative that moving the programs north will kill the program .
Moving north to central-ish Arlington is fine, especially if near neighborhoods with Hispanic populations. Key is roughly in the middle of the county. Williamsburg isn't in the middle and isn't at all near any Spanish-speaking communities.


Immersion to and is the best use of resources. I assume people aren’t just taking immersion because it’s convenient. Many are bussed one way or another so no additional buses will be needed
Anonymous
Immersion to Wms.
Anonymous
Immersion has to leave Gunston eventually. Oakridge expected to have most growth and it all feeds to Gunston.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:The county should fund it. Seriously NA will survive 2 CAF buildings eye roll 🙄


I think you are confused on multiple fronts. The county can try and help APAH with grants and loans, but it cannot outright give them the money. Even if Arlington had that kind of money, which it doesn't.

Furthermore, these buildings are nowhere near the parts of North Arlington that are the "coveted" for their schools (ie 22207).

Yes the first tower is HUGE and looks very nice. But it is south of Rt 50.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The county should fund it. Seriously NA will survive 2 CAF buildings eye roll 🙄


I think you are confused on multiple fronts. The county can try and help APAH with grants and loans, but it cannot outright give them the money. Even if Arlington had that kind of money, which it doesn't.

Furthermore, these buildings are nowhere near the parts of North Arlington that are the "coveted" for their schools (ie 22207).

Yes the first tower is HUGE and looks very nice. But it is south of Rt 50.


Sorry, what do you think a grant is?
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