Anyone following the viral Harvard University *Extension School* controversy?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:We know he took the back door. He knows it. Harvard Lite.

Pathetic.

Harvard is selling out, that's what's pathetic. Cheapening their own brand.

Naw. It’s the representation on his part. He knows he didn’t do the real Harvard. He did Harvard Lite. That’s fine. Nothing wrong with that. Just don’t represent it like you did the full Harvard.

Look if you know people like this you can figure out with a few questions what kind of program they actually did. Then you know what they know.

???

What's not understood? If you know people who say they went to Harvard and you ask what they studied, you will find out what program. If you think a degree from the extension school is "Harvard Lite" then you can sneer at them that it wasn't "the full Harvard." It's not a secret. I know people who have done these courses and they don't try to pretend it's anything else but they do say then went to Harvard (even if it was all online).

I can't imagine saying "I went to Harvard" if my degree was from the extension school. Look, the real sure way to know that someone went to Harvard is if they tell you they went to school in Boston.

Maybe I just hold myself to higher standards.

The people I know with these degrees have many degrees from lots of schools. They just decide to further learning in an area of interest, but they already have what you would consider full degrees from prestigious universities. They have law degrees, MBAs, etc but they wanted another notch in their belt, it's not really a big deal since it's not the only degree they have.

For folks going on and on about merit, this seems to be a fairly weak answer and an ambiguous standard.

Who do you think gets these degrees? It's usually older people who already have at least one degree or more already. Such as Rufo. Where would the con be? Arguably these degrees don't really offer much benefit to the students. Can you really change careers after a short course?

so all good with misrepresenting here, but not when other folks (allegedly) do it? Is that the standard?

What has been misrepresented? He has a degree from Harvard. You may just not be very impressed with it.

He has a graduate degree from the Extension School. When someone receives a graduate degree from Harvard, it is from a specific school @ Harvard, not from generic Harvard University.

It's still part of the university, even if you wish it wasn't.

Right. It is Harvard Extension School. I read a lot of CVs. Folks don't list "Master's Degree, Harvard University," they list the degree, the school issuing it, then Harvard University. IYKYK.

Or maybe that's the reason why some of these folks are at the extension school - they can't follow directions.

Ok, show us where Rufo's resume had this listed.

NP. Given the type of work he does, I don't know exactly what kind of "resume" he has (I'm just a regular guy with a normal job, I've never been a "Senior Fellow"), but he definitely lists it simply as "Harvard University" on his bios for the various groups he works with and where he's published:

https://manhattan.institute/person/christopher-f-rufo
https://christopherrufo.com/about
https://www.city-journal.org/person/christopher-f-rufo
https://www.ncf.edu/about/leadership/board-of-trustees/

If you Google "Harvard ALM," the first page of hits takes you to the extension school except for one Reddit r/harvardextension thread. And for a forum called "InstantCertDegreeForum." If the merits of your grad degree are being debated in a forum called "InstantCertDegree," you've lost.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Harvard is the absolute grift - they monetize the name to shake down all comers in the Extension school, while they keep the size of the "regular" student body far below what their endowment could afford, ensuring that demand will always far outstrip supply and that crazy parents will sell their kidney to get Larla into "real" Harvard. And they get tax breaks as an educational institution even though Harvard's primary raison d'etre is building its endowment.

Meh, every school has their version of the "extension" school. Sometimes it's called continuing ed, at Columbia it's called general studies. All schools are looking to monetize but are also sensitive about diluting their brand.

Eh. Harvard has the prestige to attract students to its extension school no matter what. The bottom tier Ivies have to ratchet of their "general studies" programs if they want to attract students.

That's why Columbia School of General Studies students sit in the same classes as other undergrads and get the same diploma as other undergrads.

Yes this is correct

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Sounds as though Harvard University is the one running the grift here, if one buys your assumption (which is probably incorrect) that their online programs are not legitimate.

+1000

DYK how many places run these programs? Columbia has one in general studies, believe same @ Penn. So many schools have them. Heck, does USDA still run an extension school? That said, they are extension programs.

Harvard’s extension school is over 100 years old and was created for the working people in Boston who couldn’t go to college during the day. They are all taught by Harvard professors

plenty of universities have these programs. Yale has a physicians assistant Program at night separate from the school working with themYale Medical school. Online classes and on-site requirements.

Columbia has night school classes in certain degrees where students go at their own pace. Stanford,Penn, Duke, Brown, Northwestern and many many more.

What is wrong with catering to non-traditional students who might want a change in career or to get a better job but can’t spend all day at school with 18 year olds.

Universities are in the business of education. It’s exactly what they’re doing.

There are no scholarships... It's a cash grab

Nearly all colleges offer this kind of education.

For which colleges that offer it is it a "cash grab", and for which is it a reasonable offer?

Please answer. But I know you won't.

What kind of gotcha is this?

No scholarships+ high cost is cash grab.

Make the degree free or cheap. This isn't complicated. Otherwise it's a cash grab.

Answer the damned question. Nearly all colleges offer this. For which ones is it a cash grab? All of them?

For the record HES offers financial aid and its tuition is half Harvard’s.

All of them and the point is, it's not making it accessible to more people.

Yes, a lot of online degrees are cash grabs, not only Harvard. Harvard should be running a better program.

Your post makes no sense. Are you an eliteist who thinks schools should not offer classes to the general public?

Did you see the post explaining HES is over 100 years old?

Did you see the post stating they give financial aid and the tuition is half to begin with?

This is an odd bee to have stuck in your bonnet.

You should look at the history of the school. The will of the person who founded it said that no course should cost more than 2 bushels of wheat. That would be around 20 dollars in today's money. (Look up the price of two bushels of wheat. Suppose you adjusted to a crazy extent, you're still not getting past 200 Dollars)

For most of the history of HES, there was a sliding scare for low income so that everyone could take classes.

At 40k and no sliding scale or scholarships (and yes, I'm sure there's financial aid, but it's not transparent at all), it's out of reach for most people.

Bushels of wheat?

That’s your argument?

You’re not serious.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Extension schools are vastly different from the regular university. Their original purpose is charity, but today have morphed into cash cows funding the real university though still disguised as charity in the name of equality, access etc.

They are distinct enough from the real university that a clarification is warranted. Neglecting to do so is grifting behavior.

Exactly my point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Sounds as though Harvard University is the one running the grift here, if one buys your assumption (which is probably incorrect) that their online programs are not legitimate.

+1000

DYK how many places run these programs? Columbia has one in general studies, believe same @ Penn. So many schools have them. Heck, does USDA still run an extension school? That said, they are extension programs.

Harvard’s extension school is over 100 years old and was created for the working people in Boston who couldn’t go to college during the day. They are all taught by Harvard professors

plenty of universities have these programs. Yale has a physicians assistant Program at night separate from the school working with themYale Medical school. Online classes and on-site requirements.

Columbia has night school classes in certain degrees where students go at their own pace. Stanford,Penn, Duke, Brown, Northwestern and many many more.

What is wrong with catering to non-traditional students who might want a change in career or to get a better job but can’t spend all day at school with 18 year olds.

Universities are in the business of education. It’s exactly what they’re doing.

There are no scholarships... It's a cash grab

Nearly all colleges offer this kind of education.

For which colleges that offer it is it a "cash grab", and for which is it a reasonable offer?

Please answer. But I know you won't.

What kind of gotcha is this?

No scholarships+ high cost is cash grab.

Make the degree free or cheap. This isn't complicated. Otherwise it's a cash grab.

Answer the damned question. Nearly all colleges offer this. For which ones is it a cash grab? All of them?

For the record HES offers financial aid and its tuition is half Harvard’s.

All of them and the point is, it's not making it accessible to more people.

Yes, a lot of online degrees are cash grabs, not only Harvard. Harvard should be running a better program.

Your post makes no sense. Are you an eliteist who thinks schools should not offer classes to the general public?

Did you see the post explaining HES is over 100 years old?

Did you see the post stating they give financial aid and the tuition is half to begin with?

This is an odd bee to have stuck in your bonnet.

You should look at the history of the school. The will of the person who founded it said that no course should cost more than 2 bushels of wheat. That would be around 20 dollars in today's money. (Look up the price of two bushels of wheat. Suppose you adjusted to a crazy extent, you're still not getting past 200 Dollars)

For most of the history of HES, there was a sliding scare for low income so that everyone could take classes.

At 40k and no sliding scale or scholarships (and yes, I'm sure there's financial aid, but it's not transparent at all), it's out of reach for most people.

Bushels of wheat?

That’s your argument?

You’re not serious.

The point is, as PP said, it's a cash grab now. In the past, it was a charity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds as though Harvard University is the one running the grift here, if one buys your assumption (which is probably incorrect) that their online programs are not legitimate.

+1000

DYK how many places run these programs? Columbia has one in general studies, believe same @ Penn. So many schools have them. Heck, does USDA still run an extension school? That said, they are extension programs.

Harvard’s extension school is over 100 years old and was created for the working people in Boston who couldn’t go to college during the day. They are all taught by Harvard professors

plenty of universities have these programs. Yale has a physicians assistant Program at night separate from the school working with themYale Medical school. Online classes and on-site requirements.

Columbia has night school classes in certain degrees where students go at their own pace. Stanford,Penn, Duke, Brown, Northwestern and many many more.

What is wrong with catering to non-traditional students who might want a change in career or to get a better job but can’t spend all day at school with 18 year olds.

Universities are in the business of education. It’s exactly what they’re doing.

There are no scholarships... It's a cash grab

Nearly all colleges offer this kind of education.

For which colleges that offer it is it a "cash grab", and for which is it a reasonable offer?

Please answer. But I know you won't.

What kind of gotcha is this?

No scholarships+ high cost is cash grab.

Make the degree free or cheap. This isn't complicated. Otherwise it's a cash grab.

Answer the damned question. Nearly all colleges offer this. For which ones is it a cash grab? All of them?

For the record HES offers financial aid and its tuition is half Harvard’s.

All of them and the point is, it's not making it accessible to more people.

Yes, a lot of online degrees are cash grabs, not only Harvard. Harvard should be running a better program.

The extension school is not an online degree program--it's a longstanding continuing/community education program. The actual grad schools at Harvard have their own reputable and strong on-line programs. The extension school is not part of that.

HES website says his masters was all online, except for one 2 week course.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:We know he took the back door. He knows it. Harvard Lite.

Pathetic.

Harvard is selling out, that's what's pathetic. Cheapening their own brand.

Naw. It’s the representation on his part. He knows he didn’t do the real Harvard. He did Harvard Lite. That’s fine. Nothing wrong with that. Just don’t represent it like you did the full Harvard.

Look if you know people like this you can figure out with a few questions what kind of program they actually did. Then you know what they know.

???

What's not understood? If you know people who say they went to Harvard and you ask what they studied, you will find out what program. If you think a degree from the extension school is "Harvard Lite" then you can sneer at them that it wasn't "the full Harvard." It's not a secret. I know people who have done these courses and they don't try to pretend it's anything else but they do say then went to Harvard (even if it was all online).

I can't imagine saying "I went to Harvard" if my degree was from the extension school. Look, the real sure way to know that someone went to Harvard is if they tell you they went to school in Boston.

Maybe I just hold myself to higher standards.

The people I know with these degrees have many degrees from lots of schools. They just decide to further learning in an area of interest, but they already have what you would consider full degrees from prestigious universities. They have law degrees, MBAs, etc but they wanted another notch in their belt, it's not really a big deal since it's not the only degree they have.

For folks going on and on about merit, this seems to be a fairly weak answer and an ambiguous standard.

Who do you think gets these degrees? It's usually older people who already have at least one degree or more already. Such as Rufo. Where would the con be? Arguably these degrees don't really offer much benefit to the students. Can you really change careers after a short course?

so all good with misrepresenting here, but not when other folks (allegedly) do it? Is that the standard?

What has been misrepresented? He has a degree from Harvard. You may just not be very impressed with it.

He has a graduate degree from the Extension School. When someone receives a graduate degree from Harvard, it is from a specific school @ Harvard, not from generic Harvard University.

It's still part of the university, even if you wish it wasn't.

Right. It is Harvard Extension School. I read a lot of CVs. Folks don't list "Master's Degree, Harvard University," they list the degree, the school issuing it, then Harvard University. IYKYK.

Or maybe that's the reason why some of these folks are at the extension school - they can't follow directions.

Ok, show us where Rufo's resume had this listed.

NP. Given the type of work he does, I don't know exactly what kind of "resume" he has (I'm just a regular guy with a normal job, I've never been a "Senior Fellow"), but he definitely lists it simply as "Harvard University" on his bios for the various groups he works with and where he's published:

https://manhattan.institute/person/christopher-f-rufo
https://christopherrufo.com/about
https://www.city-journal.org/person/christopher-f-rufo
https://www.ncf.edu/about/leadership/board-of-trustees/

So not resumes just informal bios. And people really care about this?

He's a public figure. "Informal" bios are how he's introduced to the public not resumes. Personally, I think people should represent themselves honestly, so yeah I do care.

Yes, and it is 100% honest to say a masters from Harvard. That’s what it is. No where has he ever said he attended Harvard University, Kennedy School of Government and earned a Masters Degree in public polcy.

He said, in his INFORMAL bios that he attended and earned a masters from Harvard. The HES is one of the 12 schools that make up Harvard, you are a Harvard alumni if you graduate from it.

He could have been more specific. Oh well. Still completely different than plagiarism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds as though Harvard University is the one running the grift here, if one buys your assumption (which is probably incorrect) that their online programs are not legitimate.

+1000

DYK how many places run these programs? Columbia has one in general studies, believe same @ Penn. So many schools have them. Heck, does USDA still run an extension school? That said, they are extension programs.

Harvard’s extension school is over 100 years old and was created for the working people in Boston who couldn’t go to college during the day. They are all taught by Harvard professors

plenty of universities have these programs. Yale has a physicians assistant Program at night separate from the school working with themYale Medical school. Online classes and on-site requirements.

Columbia has night school classes in certain degrees where students go at their own pace. Stanford,Penn, Duke, Brown, Northwestern and many many more.

What is wrong with catering to non-traditional students who might want a change in career or to get a better job but can’t spend all day at school with 18 year olds.

Universities are in the business of education. It’s exactly what they’re doing.

There are no scholarships... It's a cash grab

Nearly all colleges offer this kind of education.

For which colleges that offer it is it a "cash grab", and for which is it a reasonable offer?

Please answer. But I know you won't.

What kind of gotcha is this?

No scholarships+ high cost is cash grab.

Make the degree free or cheap. This isn't complicated. Otherwise it's a cash grab.

Answer the damned question. Nearly all colleges offer this. For which ones is it a cash grab? All of them?

For the record HES offers financial aid and its tuition is half Harvard’s.

All of them and the point is, it's not making it accessible to more people.

Yes, a lot of online degrees are cash grabs, not only Harvard. Harvard should be running a better program.

The extension school is not an online degree program--it's a longstanding continuing/community education program. The actual grad schools at Harvard have their own reputable and strong on-line programs. The extension school is not part of that.

HES website says his masters was all online, except for one 2 week course.

At this point, this person either has *insert politician they don’t like* (in this case Conservative Christopher Rufo) or is some sort of Harvard shill trying to stem the bleeding on the Universities reputation on the UMC/UC midatlantic families that make up a lot of it’s admissions, and who are not FA eligible.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We know he took the back door. He knows it. Harvard Lite.

Pathetic.

Harvard is selling out, that's what's pathetic. Cheapening their own brand.

Naw. It’s the representation on his part. He knows he didn’t do the real Harvard. He did Harvard Lite. That’s fine. Nothing wrong with that. Just don’t represent it like you did the full Harvard.

Look if you know people like this you can figure out with a few questions what kind of program they actually did. Then you know what they know.

???

What's not understood? If you know people who say they went to Harvard and you ask what they studied, you will find out what program. If you think a degree from the extension school is "Harvard Lite" then you can sneer at them that it wasn't "the full Harvard." It's not a secret. I know people who have done these courses and they don't try to pretend it's anything else but they do say then went to Harvard (even if it was all online).

I can't imagine saying "I went to Harvard" if my degree was from the extension school. Look, the real sure way to know that someone went to Harvard is if they tell you they went to school in Boston.

Maybe I just hold myself to higher standards.

The people I know with these degrees have many degrees from lots of schools. They just decide to further learning in an area of interest, but they already have what you would consider full degrees from prestigious universities. They have law degrees, MBAs, etc but they wanted another notch in their belt, it's not really a big deal since it's not the only degree they have.

For folks going on and on about merit, this seems to be a fairly weak answer and an ambiguous standard.

Who do you think gets these degrees? It's usually older people who already have at least one degree or more already. Such as Rufo. Where would the con be? Arguably these degrees don't really offer much benefit to the students. Can you really change careers after a short course?

so all good with misrepresenting here, but not when other folks (allegedly) do it? Is that the standard?

What has been misrepresented? He has a degree from Harvard. You may just not be very impressed with it.

He has a graduate degree from the Extension School. When someone receives a graduate degree from Harvard, it is from a specific school @ Harvard, not from generic Harvard University.

It's still part of the university, even if you wish it wasn't.

Right. It is Harvard Extension School. I read a lot of CVs. Folks don't list "Master's Degree, Harvard University," they list the degree, the school issuing it, then Harvard University. IYKYK.

Or maybe that's the reason why some of these folks are at the extension school - they can't follow directions.

Ok, show us where Rufo's resume had this listed.

NP. Given the type of work he does, I don't know exactly what kind of "resume" he has (I'm just a regular guy with a normal job, I've never been a "Senior Fellow"), but he definitely lists it simply as "Harvard University" on his bios for the various groups he works with and where he's published:

https://manhattan.institute/person/christopher-f-rufo
https://christopherrufo.com/about
https://www.city-journal.org/person/christopher-f-rufo
https://www.ncf.edu/about/leadership/board-of-trustees/

So not resumes just informal bios. And people really care about this?

He's a public figure. "Informal" bios are how he's introduced to the public not resumes. Personally, I think people should represent themselves honestly, so yeah I do care.

Yes, and it is 100% honest to say a masters from Harvard. That’s what it is. No where has he ever said he attended Harvard University, Kennedy School of Government and earned a Masters Degree in public polcy.

He said, in his INFORMAL bios that he attended and earned a masters from Harvard. The HES is one of the 12 schools that make up Harvard, you are a Harvard alumni if you graduate from it.

He could have been more specific. Oh well. Still completely different than plagiarism.

Personally, I don't have different rules for honesty in formal and informal settings, but perhaps you do.

[Anonymous]

Harvard has always been a pretty weak school, at least for undergraduate. Friends with kids there have complained of that in the same way that my friends did years ago, I think a lot of this weakness and arrogance is now exposed. The school needs to refocus on its primary mission.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We know he took the back door. He knows it. Harvard Lite.

Pathetic.

Harvard is selling out, that's what's pathetic. Cheapening their own brand.

Naw. It’s the representation on his part. He knows he didn’t do the real Harvard. He did Harvard Lite. That’s fine. Nothing wrong with that. Just don’t represent it like you did the full Harvard.

Look if you know people like this you can figure out with a few questions what kind of program they actually did. Then you know what they know.

???

What's not understood? If you know people who say they went to Harvard and you ask what they studied, you will find out what program. If you think a degree from the extension school is "Harvard Lite" then you can sneer at them that it wasn't "the full Harvard." It's not a secret. I know people who have done these courses and they don't try to pretend it's anything else but they do say then went to Harvard (even if it was all online).

I can't imagine saying "I went to Harvard" if my degree was from the extension school. Look, the real sure way to know that someone went to Harvard is if they tell you they went to school in Boston.

Maybe I just hold myself to higher standards.

The people I know with these degrees have many degrees from lots of schools. They just decide to further learning in an area of interest, but they already have what you would consider full degrees from prestigious universities. They have law degrees, MBAs, etc but they wanted another notch in their belt, it's not really a big deal since it's not the only degree they have.

For folks going on and on about merit, this seems to be a fairly weak answer and an ambiguous standard.

Who do you think gets these degrees? It's usually older people who already have at least one degree or more already. Such as Rufo. Where would the con be? Arguably these degrees don't really offer much benefit to the students. Can you really change careers after a short course?

so all good with misrepresenting here, but not when other folks (allegedly) do it? Is that the standard?

What has been misrepresented? He has a degree from Harvard. You may just not be very impressed with it.

He has a graduate degree from the Extension School. When someone receives a graduate degree from Harvard, it is from a specific school @ Harvard, not from generic Harvard University.

It's still part of the university, even if you wish it wasn't.

Right. It is Harvard Extension School. I read a lot of CVs. Folks don't list "Master's Degree, Harvard University," they list the degree, the school issuing it, then Harvard University. IYKYK.

Or maybe that's the reason why some of these folks are at the extension school - they can't follow directions.

Ok, show us where Rufo's resume had this listed.

NP. Given the type of work he does, I don't know exactly what kind of "resume" he has (I'm just a regular guy with a normal job, I've never been a "Senior Fellow"), but he definitely lists it simply as "Harvard University" on his bios for the various groups he works with and where he's published:

https://manhattan.institute/person/christopher-f-rufo
https://christopherrufo.com/about
https://www.city-journal.org/person/christopher-f-rufo
https://www.ncf.edu/about/leadership/board-of-trustees/

So not resumes just informal bios. And people really care about this?

He's a public figure. "Informal" bios are how he's introduced to the public not resumes. Personally, I think people should represent themselves honestly, so yeah I do care.

Especially when the person has put in a lot of effort to pointing out others' honesty or lack thereof.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds as though Harvard University is the one running the grift here, if one buys your assumption (which is probably incorrect) that their online programs are not legitimate.

+1000

DYK how many places run these programs? Columbia has one in general studies, believe same @ Penn. So many schools have them. Heck, does USDA still run an extension school? That said, they are extension programs.

Harvard’s extension school is over 100 years old and was created for the working people in Boston who couldn’t go to college during the day. They are all taught by Harvard professors

plenty of universities have these programs. Yale has a physicians assistant Program at night separate from the school working with themYale Medical school. Online classes and on-site requirements.

Columbia has night school classes in certain degrees where students go at their own pace. Stanford,Penn, Duke, Brown, Northwestern and many many more.

What is wrong with catering to non-traditional students who might want a change in career or to get a better job but can’t spend all day at school with 18 year olds.

Universities are in the business of education. It’s exactly what they’re doing.

There are no scholarships... It's a cash grab

Nearly all colleges offer this kind of education.

For which colleges that offer it is it a "cash grab", and for which is it a reasonable offer?

Please answer. But I know you won't.

What kind of gotcha is this?

No scholarships+ high cost is cash grab.

Make the degree free or cheap. This isn't complicated. Otherwise it's a cash grab.

Answer the damned question. Nearly all colleges offer this. For which ones is it a cash grab? All of them?

For the record HES offers financial aid and its tuition is half Harvard’s.

All of them and the point is, it's not making it accessible to more people.

Yes, a lot of online degrees are cash grabs, not only Harvard. Harvard should be running a better program.

The extension school is not an online degree program--it's a longstanding continuing/community education program. The actual grad schools at Harvard have their own reputable and strong on-line programs. The extension school is not part of that.

HES website says his masters was all online, except for one 2 week course.

Aren't you guys supposed to be all about equity? Most people can't drop their lives for a on-campus masters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We know he took the back door. He knows it. Harvard Lite.

Pathetic.

Harvard is selling out, that's what's pathetic. Cheapening their own brand.

Naw. It’s the representation on his part. He knows he didn’t do the real Harvard. He did Harvard Lite. That’s fine. Nothing wrong with that. Just don’t represent it like you did the full Harvard.

Look if you know people like this you can figure out with a few questions what kind of program they actually did. Then you know what they know.

???

What's not understood? If you know people who say they went to Harvard and you ask what they studied, you will find out what program. If you think a degree from the extension school is "Harvard Lite" then you can sneer at them that it wasn't "the full Harvard." It's not a secret. I know people who have done these courses and they don't try to pretend it's anything else but they do say then went to Harvard (even if it was all online).

I can't imagine saying "I went to Harvard" if my degree was from the extension school. Look, the real sure way to know that someone went to Harvard is if they tell you they went to school in Boston.

Maybe I just hold myself to higher standards.

The people I know with these degrees have many degrees from lots of schools. They just decide to further learning in an area of interest, but they already have what you would consider full degrees from prestigious universities. They have law degrees, MBAs, etc but they wanted another notch in their belt, it's not really a big deal since it's not the only degree they have.

For folks going on and on about merit, this seems to be a fairly weak answer and an ambiguous standard.

Who do you think gets these degrees? It's usually older people who already have at least one degree or more already. Such as Rufo. Where would the con be? Arguably these degrees don't really offer much benefit to the students. Can you really change careers after a short course?

so all good with misrepresenting here, but not when other folks (allegedly) do it? Is that the standard?

What has been misrepresented? He has a degree from Harvard. You may just not be very impressed with it.

He has a graduate degree from the Extension School. When someone receives a graduate degree from Harvard, it is from a specific school @ Harvard, not from generic Harvard University.

It's still part of the university, even if you wish it wasn't.

Right. It is Harvard Extension School. I read a lot of CVs. Folks don't list "Master's Degree, Harvard University," they list the degree, the school issuing it, then Harvard University. IYKYK.

Or maybe that's the reason why some of these folks are at the extension school - they can't follow directions.

Ok, show us where Rufo's resume had this listed.

NP. Given the type of work he does, I don't know exactly what kind of "resume" he has (I'm just a regular guy with a normal job, I've never been a "Senior Fellow"), but he definitely lists it simply as "Harvard University" on his bios for the various groups he works with and where he's published:

https://manhattan.institute/person/christopher-f-rufo
https://christopherrufo.com/about
https://www.city-journal.org/person/christopher-f-rufo
https://www.ncf.edu/about/leadership/board-of-trustees/

If you Google "Harvard ALM," the first page of hits takes you to the extension school except for one Reddit r/harvardextension thread. And for a forum called "InstantCertDegreeForum." If the merits of your grad degree are being debated in a forum called "InstantCertDegree," you've lost.

Being a "Senior Fellow" at Harvard is a huge deal - Harvard grad

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Sounds as though Harvard University is the one running the grift here, if one buys your assumption (which is probably incorrect) that their online programs are not legitimate.

+1000

DYK how many places run these programs? Columbia has one in general studies, believe same @ Penn. So many schools have them. Heck, does USDA still run an extension school? That said, they are extension programs.

Harvard’s extension school is over 100 years old and was created for the working people in Boston who couldn’t go to college during the day. They are all taught by Harvard professors

plenty of universities have these programs. Yale has a physicians assistant Program at night separate from the school working with themYale Medical school. Online classes and on-site requirements.

Columbia has night school classes in certain degrees where students go at their own pace. Stanford,Penn, Duke, Brown, Northwestern and many many more.

What is wrong with catering to non-traditional students who might want a change in career or to get a better job but can’t spend all day at school with 18 year olds.

Universities are in the business of education. It’s exactly what they’re doing.

There are no scholarships... It's a cash grab

Nearly all colleges offer this kind of education.

For which colleges that offer it is it a "cash grab", and for which is it a reasonable offer?

Please answer. But I know you won't.

What kind of gotcha is this?

No scholarships+ high cost is cash grab.

Make the degree free or cheap. This isn't complicated. Otherwise it's a cash grab.

Answer the damned question. Nearly all colleges offer this. For which ones is it a cash grab? All of them?

For the record HES offers financial aid and its tuition is half Harvard’s.

All of them and the point is, it's not making it accessible to more people.

Yes, a lot of online degrees are cash grabs, not only Harvard. Harvard should be running a better program.

The extension school is not an online degree program--it's a longstanding continuing/community education program. The actual grad schools at Harvard have their own reputable and strong on-line programs. The extension school is not part of that.

HES website says his masters was all online, except for one 2 week course.

What I was meaning is that the extension school is not an on-line degree program, it is a school that offers a range of degrees--including on-line ones. The professional schools at Harvard DO offer some on-line degrees (e.g. there are some specific on-line MBA programs) that are selective/rigorous and wouldn't be thought of as much as Harvard-lite.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Harvard has always been a pretty weak school, at least for undergraduate. Friends with kids there have complained of that in the same way that my friends did years ago, I think a lot of this weakness and arrogance is now exposed. The school needs to refocus on its primary mission.

I think it is focused on its primary mission, which is definitely not undergrad education. (my friend whose kid is there now has similar complaints)