To dog owners (again): I don't want your dog to touch me.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Honestly this is something YOU have to get over. You are clearly not well mentally and while I feel sorry for your history, you do live in a society where people have pets and children, etc and there will be interactions with them. Most mentally healthy people find these interactions pleasant and fulfilling even, but clearly you do not. That is not typical and the world should not be required to adjust to your extreme hypersensitivity. Try meds, therapy or consider in patient treatment. I wish you well

I managed to own a dog for 15 years, living in an apartment in urban areas, without him touching a single person on our walk who didn't specifically ask to pet him. Most people do not find a strange dog they don't know touching them without a clear affirmative consent "pleasant and fulfilling". They find it invasive. The fact that you think that's "extreme hypersensitivity" is bizarre.

There is middle ground here. I am a dog owner. I absolutely hate off-leash dogs, and I never intentionally bring my dog to someone without them expressly inviting it. But also if you're walking on a city sidewalk, my dog might turn around to sniff you and might even boop you with his snout because there just isn't a lot of room to pass and my dog isn't perfect. The interaction won't be long because I keep his leash very short when we pass someone, but I can't guarantee perfect.

Shorten your leash or don't have a dog if you cannot walk them without it touching other people or invading their space

I grab dog’s leash so he’s right up against me. The sidewalk is like 6 feet wide or less. Two people plus a dog means we’re all coming in close proximity.

So when you’re coming into close proximity with someone who is indicating they want to avoid your dog, stop, put yourself between your dog and the other person and make your dog is secure. If shortening the leash can’t assure your control, then hold the collar, use both hands, sit on the ground with the dog in your lap while you hug it, pick it up altogether, step off the sidewalk so the other person can pass, hire a dog walker who can control the dog, take it some place where there’s no chance of it being too close to others who don’t welcome interaction, or leave the dog home altogether. The fact is that every single human has the right to use the sidewalk without being accosted by a dog. Dogs are extended the privilege of sidewalk access only when the owner’s control insures they don’t inconvenience other people.

This cannot be a serious post. You would rather I sit on the sidewalk and hug my well behaved properly leashed dog than literally step to the side, as I will do, as we pass?

The dog hating insanity has gone off the deep end.

DP here: If your dog is so well behaved then you can see someone who is approaching and move him to the other side. Or stop and put them in a sit. Or have them on a head collar so you can keep them looking at you.

If none of those work then your dog doesn’t belong on crowded sidewalks, so your options would include driving to a less crowded place or physically restraining your dog, or getting a dog trainer.

No. I have no obligation to do that. Keeping
My dog on a short leash is plenty. Both my dog and I are allowed to be there. If you hate dogs that much, then YOU move. We’re not talking about a restaurant or grocery store where dogs are prohibited. These are dog-friendly sidewalks and walking trails.

Who made them dog friendly? You don’t get to just proclaim that.

Your dog will never have as many rights as the person walking, you lunatic.

The “dogs permitted on a six-foot leash” sign, the county ordinances, the laws? Are you insane?

These are laws that allow dogs, it doesn't make the place dog-friendly. The laws are saying "you MAY bring your dog here, but only if the dog doesn't bother people."

It's like how there are lots of place kids are allowed but are not "kid-friendly" places. Restaurants and airplanes, for instance. You can bring kids there, but if your kid is running around, bothering other people, screaming, etc, then you will be asked to leave or you might be banned from the airline or. held accountable for your kids' behavior in other ways. A "kid-friendly" place is a playground, a school, a kid's birthday party, a family restaurant, Chuck-e-Cheese, etc. Places where kids can run amok and no one cares.

Honey, these places are literally listed on the county website as “dog-friendly” places.

Yes, parks where dogs are free to run around and are encouraged to congregate.

There is no such thing as a "dog friendly sidewalk." Dogs must be controlled on sidewalks. Always.

HONEY.

Are sidewalks human friendly? Humans still have to behave on sidewalks. You’re absolutely insufferable. Leashed dogs are allowed to be on sidewalks. And they’re allowed to exhibit normal, safe behavior on sidewalks.

I don't know if anyone has explained this to you yet, but dogs and humans are different.

Both are allowed on sidewalks only under certain parameters.

Nope.

Humans are entitled to sidewalks. If a sidewalk doesn't accommodate a human because they are in a wheelchair, for instance, that human can sue the city and force them to change the sidewalk to ensure the human has access to it.

Dogs are merely permitted on sidewalks if their owners follow specific rules that are designed to ensure the presence of the dog doesn't inhibit the ability of other humans to use it. If a dog can't use a sidewalk (say it's a dachshund and the sidewalk has obstacles that would make it impossible for such a short animal to use it) it doesn't matter -- that dog owner just has to figure out something else.

Again, humans and dogs are different.

Nope! Humans have to comport themselves with care and control on sidewalks. They can’t jump on people or grab people. They can’t engage in illegal conduct. They typically aren’t allowed to ride bikes on the sidewalk. They are allowed on sidewalks only so long as they’re behaving lawfully and reasonably.

We don't currently have a scourge of people jumping on or grabbing other people on sidewalks because, and say it with me this time: humans and dogs are different.

lol have you ever gone into DC

lol I live in DC and in the part where people do all kinds of obnoxious and even criminal things and yet even here, I never have people running up to me, sticking their faces in my crotch, or licking me.

Because humans and dogs are different.

People literally sleep on sidewalks and absolutely intentionally touch strangers

A person sleeping on a sidewalk doesn't actually harm me. I don't love it but as long as they aren't obstructing the sidewalk, it doesn't impact me.

I've lived in DC for 25 years and have never been intentionally touched by a stranger.

If a person walked up to me and licked me or stuck their face in my crotch, I would call the cops and press charges and they would be arrested. Why should a dog be allowed to do something that would be a criminal act by a human?

Because, as you keep noting, dogs and humans are different.

All jokes aside, dogs don’t have “intent,” and evidently you have been unintentionally touched by humans on the sidewalk. And aren’t you the one who said it is NEVER OKAY for a dog to brush up against a human?

The fact that dogs don't have intent and don't understand that not everyone is okay being near them is explicitly why dogs are required to be leashed and humans are not.

The point of the leash is for you to force your dog to do things that humans are expected to do without a leash, like not sniff and lick everyone walking past. If you just leash your dog but continue to let them do these things that would get a human arrested, then you aren't actually complying with the leash law, which is why leash laws almost always including phrasing like "controlled by a leash" of a certain length. The law doesn't just require your dog to have a leash, they require the owner to be actively using the leash to keep their dog away from other people.

Because human beings are capable of intent and can understand stuff like assault laws or even just social norms, we don't leash them. But if a human violates these rules they can be arrested and/or publicly shunned and shamed, whereas a dog cannot be because a dog isn't a person.

The problems is that many dog owners think leashes are for decoration and that dogs should be permitted to bother anyone they want as long as they aren't biting or attacking, and that's explicitly not what the law says. The law says you need to control your dog via a leash (which means pulling it away from anyone they approach unless that person has explicitly given permission to be approached).

Thus how a dog owner comes to believe a sidewalk is a "dog friendly" space simply because their dog isn't banned from being there, and the dog should be permitted to wander and approach people at will. It's a fundamental misunderstanding of the law and why it exists.

Once again being pedantic and moving the goal posts. Nobody said it’s okay for an owner to let a dog jump on or lick a stranger. But you said it’s not okay for a dog to brush up against a person accidentally. That’s not true and it’s a gross and unreasonable overreaction to a normal part of life that comes with being in public spaces that are dog-friendly (yes, there is no difference between being “dog-allowed” and “dog-friendly” because it’s still not okay for a dog to jump on or lick someone in the overwhelming majority of dog-friendly spaces).

If your point is that owners need to use the leash the stop their dogs from jumping up on strangers, then we’re in heated agreement. If your point is that people with dogs need to jump off the sidewalk and give a three-foot berth to anyone passing them because they might take extreme offense to the dog’s fur rubbing up against them, then you’re absolutely insane.

I never said that. The number of circumstances where a dog owner couldn't prevent their dog from brushing against people incidentally without decent training and leash control is so infinitesimal that I dont' even think it's worth addressing.

The vast majority of the time, if your dog is bumping into other people, it's because you aren't sufficiently controlling them in a public space.

You’re not the person who said: “Dogs are one hundred percent not allowed to brush up against anyone you idiot.”?

I’m going to start touching dog owners when they allow their dog to touch me without my consent. A little pet on the head is fine right?

It’s a common occurrence to brush up against people accidentally at restaurants, bars, airports, public transit, concerts, and *gasp* sidewalks. So yeah, that’d be fine.

When you idiots try to compare dog to people you sound unhinged. You know that right?

No one is walking me on a leash you moron.

Accidental, incidental touching in a crowded place is not offensive by a reasonable person standard. The law is not going to recognize your deep offense. Acknowledge your belief is idiosyncratic and the world doesn’t revolve around you.

Your dog is not supposed to be in crowded places where you are not able to keep them from touching other people. Keep your dog away from people you insufferable moron. Your entitlement is off the charts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP is definitely the type of person who leaves their grocery next to their car because “it’s the workers’ job to put it away”

This is the kind of hatred directed at people who don't care for dogs have mentioned herein.

Americans care more for pets than children, which is sad.

"Americans now donate more than $2 billion every year to charities that protect animal welfare. Yet we donate less than a quarter as much to charities that prevent child abuse and help abused children reclaim their lives."

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/animals-get-more-support_b_8837276

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP is definitely the type of person who leaves their grocery next to their car because “it’s the workers’ job to put it away”

This is the kind of hatred directed at people who don't care for dogs have mentioned herein.

Americans care more for pets than children, which is sad.

"Americans now donate more than $2 billion every year to charities that protect animal welfare. Yet we donate less than a quarter as much to charities that prevent child abuse and help abused children reclaim their lives."

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/animals-get-more-support_b_8837276

Agree. The number of people who put their dogs above other humans is very concerning.

[Anonymous]

There is NO conduct that these dog nutters are willing to condemn. They have an excuse for everything.
I was with my sister and our kids having a beach picnic when a dog came bounding up out of absolute nowhere and ate my son’s sandwich in one gulp. I was seething and informed the owners that dogs were supposed to be leashed and I got the same line “I can see you’re not a dog person.” I’m supposed to be as cut down by that as I would be by being called a racist. There is nothing that these awful owners will apologize for.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP is definitely the type of person who leaves their grocery next to their car because “it’s the workers’ job to put it away”

This is the kind of hatred directed at people who don't care for dogs have mentioned herein.

Americans care more for pets than children, which is sad.

"Americans now donate more than $2 billion every year to charities that protect animal welfare. Yet we donate less than a quarter as much to charities that prevent child abuse and help abused children reclaim their lives."

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/animals-get-more-support_b_8837276

I think the original quote is going a bit over your head.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Honestly this is something YOU have to get over. You are clearly not well mentally and while I feel sorry for your history, you do live in a society where people have pets and children, etc and there will be interactions with them. Most mentally healthy people find these interactions pleasant and fulfilling even, but clearly you do not. That is not typical and the world should not be required to adjust to your extreme hypersensitivity. Try meds, therapy or consider in patient treatment. I wish you well

I managed to own a dog for 15 years, living in an apartment in urban areas, without him touching a single person on our walk who didn't specifically ask to pet him. Most people do not find a strange dog they don't know touching them without a clear affirmative consent "pleasant and fulfilling". They find it invasive. The fact that you think that's "extreme hypersensitivity" is bizarre.

There is middle ground here. I am a dog owner. I absolutely hate off-leash dogs, and I never intentionally bring my dog to someone without them expressly inviting it. But also if you're walking on a city sidewalk, my dog might turn around to sniff you and might even boop you with his snout because there just isn't a lot of room to pass and my dog isn't perfect. The interaction won't be long because I keep his leash very short when we pass someone, but I can't guarantee perfect.

Shorten your leash or don't have a dog if you cannot walk them without it touching other people or invading their space

I grab dog’s leash so he’s right up against me. The sidewalk is like 6 feet wide or less. Two people plus a dog means we’re all coming in close proximity.

So when you’re coming into close proximity with someone who is indicating they want to avoid your dog, stop, put yourself between your dog and the other person and make your dog is secure. If shortening the leash can’t assure your control, then hold the collar, use both hands, sit on the ground with the dog in your lap while you hug it, pick it up altogether, step off the sidewalk so the other person can pass, hire a dog walker who can control the dog, take it some place where there’s no chance of it being too close to others who don’t welcome interaction, or leave the dog home altogether. The fact is that every single human has the right to use the sidewalk without being accosted by a dog. Dogs are extended the privilege of sidewalk access only when the owner’s control insures they don’t inconvenience other people.

This cannot be a serious post. You would rather I sit on the sidewalk and hug my well behaved properly leashed dog than literally step to the side, as I will do, as we pass?

The dog hating insanity has gone off the deep end.

DP here: If your dog is so well behaved then you can see someone who is approaching and move him to the other side. Or stop and put them in a sit. Or have them on a head collar so you can keep them looking at you.

If none of those work then your dog doesn’t belong on crowded sidewalks, so your options would include driving to a less crowded place or physically restraining your dog, or getting a dog trainer.

No. I have no obligation to do that. Keeping
My dog on a short leash is plenty. Both my dog and I are allowed to be there. If you hate dogs that much, then YOU move. We’re not talking about a restaurant or grocery store where dogs are prohibited. These are dog-friendly sidewalks and walking trails.

Who made them dog friendly? You don’t get to just proclaim that.

Your dog will never have as many rights as the person walking, you lunatic.

The “dogs permitted on a six-foot leash” sign, the county ordinances, the laws? Are you insane?

These are laws that allow dogs, it doesn't make the place dog-friendly. The laws are saying "you MAY bring your dog here, but only if the dog doesn't bother people."

It's like how there are lots of place kids are allowed but are not "kid-friendly" places. Restaurants and airplanes, for instance. You can bring kids there, but if your kid is running around, bothering other people, screaming, etc, then you will be asked to leave or you might be banned from the airline or. held accountable for your kids' behavior in other ways. A "kid-friendly" place is a playground, a school, a kid's birthday party, a family restaurant, Chuck-e-Cheese, etc. Places where kids can run amok and no one cares.

Honey, these places are literally listed on the county website as “dog-friendly” places.

Yes, parks where dogs are free to run around and are encouraged to congregate.

There is no such thing as a "dog friendly sidewalk." Dogs must be controlled on sidewalks. Always.

HONEY.

Are sidewalks human friendly? Humans still have to behave on sidewalks. You’re absolutely insufferable. Leashed dogs are allowed to be on sidewalks. And they’re allowed to exhibit normal, safe behavior on sidewalks.

I don't know if anyone has explained this to you yet, but dogs and humans are different.

Both are allowed on sidewalks only under certain parameters.

Nope.

Humans are entitled to sidewalks. If a sidewalk doesn't accommodate a human because they are in a wheelchair, for instance, that human can sue the city and force them to change the sidewalk to ensure the human has access to it.

Dogs are merely permitted on sidewalks if their owners follow specific rules that are designed to ensure the presence of the dog doesn't inhibit the ability of other humans to use it. If a dog can't use a sidewalk (say it's a dachshund and the sidewalk has obstacles that would make it impossible for such a short animal to use it) it doesn't matter -- that dog owner just has to figure out something else.

Again, humans and dogs are different.

Nope! Humans have to comport themselves with care and control on sidewalks. They can’t jump on people or grab people. They can’t engage in illegal conduct. They typically aren’t allowed to ride bikes on the sidewalk. They are allowed on sidewalks only so long as they’re behaving lawfully and reasonably.

We don't currently have a scourge of people jumping on or grabbing other people on sidewalks because, and say it with me this time: humans and dogs are different.

lol have you ever gone into DC

lol I live in DC and in the part where people do all kinds of obnoxious and even criminal things and yet even here, I never have people running up to me, sticking their faces in my crotch, or licking me.

Because humans and dogs are different.

People literally sleep on sidewalks and absolutely intentionally touch strangers

A person sleeping on a sidewalk doesn't actually harm me. I don't love it but as long as they aren't obstructing the sidewalk, it doesn't impact me.

I've lived in DC for 25 years and have never been intentionally touched by a stranger.

If a person walked up to me and licked me or stuck their face in my crotch, I would call the cops and press charges and they would be arrested. Why should a dog be allowed to do something that would be a criminal act by a human?

Because, as you keep noting, dogs and humans are different.

All jokes aside, dogs don’t have “intent,” and evidently you have been unintentionally touched by humans on the sidewalk. And aren’t you the one who said it is NEVER OKAY for a dog to brush up against a human?

The fact that dogs don't have intent and don't understand that not everyone is okay being near them is explicitly why dogs are required to be leashed and humans are not.

The point of the leash is for you to force your dog to do things that humans are expected to do without a leash, like not sniff and lick everyone walking past. If you just leash your dog but continue to let them do these things that would get a human arrested, then you aren't actually complying with the leash law, which is why leash laws almost always including phrasing like "controlled by a leash" of a certain length. The law doesn't just require your dog to have a leash, they require the owner to be actively using the leash to keep their dog away from other people.

Because human beings are capable of intent and can understand stuff like assault laws or even just social norms, we don't leash them. But if a human violates these rules they can be arrested and/or publicly shunned and shamed, whereas a dog cannot be because a dog isn't a person.

The problems is that many dog owners think leashes are for decoration and that dogs should be permitted to bother anyone they want as long as they aren't biting or attacking, and that's explicitly not what the law says. The law says you need to control your dog via a leash (which means pulling it away from anyone they approach unless that person has explicitly given permission to be approached).

Thus how a dog owner comes to believe a sidewalk is a "dog friendly" space simply because their dog isn't banned from being there, and the dog should be permitted to wander and approach people at will. It's a fundamental misunderstanding of the law and why it exists.

Once again being pedantic and moving the goal posts. Nobody said it’s okay for an owner to let a dog jump on or lick a stranger. But you said it’s not okay for a dog to brush up against a person accidentally. That’s not true and it’s a gross and unreasonable overreaction to a normal part of life that comes with being in public spaces that are dog-friendly (yes, there is no difference between being “dog-allowed” and “dog-friendly” because it’s still not okay for a dog to jump on or lick someone in the overwhelming majority of dog-friendly spaces).

If your point is that owners need to use the leash the stop their dogs from jumping up on strangers, then we’re in heated agreement. If your point is that people with dogs need to jump off the sidewalk and give a three-foot berth to anyone passing them because they might take extreme offense to the dog’s fur rubbing up against them, then you’re absolutely insane.

I never said that. The number of circumstances where a dog owner couldn't prevent their dog from brushing against people incidentally without decent training and leash control is so infinitesimal that I dont' even think it's worth addressing.

The vast majority of the time, if your dog is bumping into other people, it's because you aren't sufficiently controlling them in a public space.

You’re not the person who said: “Dogs are one hundred percent not allowed to brush up against anyone you idiot.”?

I’m going to start touching dog owners when they allow their dog to touch me without my consent. A little pet on the head is fine right?

It’s a common occurrence to brush up against people accidentally at restaurants, bars, airports, public transit, concerts, and *gasp* sidewalks. So yeah, that’d be fine.

When you idiots try to compare dog to people you sound unhinged. You know that right?

No one is walking me on a leash you moron.

Accidental, incidental touching in a crowded place is not offensive by a reasonable person standard. The law is not going to recognize your deep offense. Acknowledge your belief is idiosyncratic and the world doesn’t revolve around you.

Your dog is not supposed to be in crowded places where you are not able to keep them from touching other people. Keep your dog away from people you insufferable moron. Your entitlement is off the charts.

Dogs aren’t allowed to pass people on a narrow sidewalk? Dogs aren’t allowed on Manhattan sidewalks? Be real here. You know this isn’t true, and you’re the one expecting the world to revolve around you and your bizarre hypersensitivity.

[Anonymous]

OP sounds like a weirdo. I never let my dogs approach random people, but I regularly have random people (and kids!) approaching my dogs. Fortunately both are friendly.

If you are walking on a city sidewalk, it may be unavoidable to come into contact with a dog if lots of people are around.

[Anonymous]

Dog owner here.

1) never off a leash in public

2) poop in your own yard.

3) if you don't have a yard don't get a dog.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Dog owner here.

1) never off a leash in public

2) poop in your own yard.

3) if you don't have a yard don't get a dog.

Wait, can you clarify? You mean you don’t think dogs should be allowed to poop on walks even if the owner picks it up?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Honestly this is something YOU have to get over. You are clearly not well mentally and while I feel sorry for your history, you do live in a society where people have pets and children, etc and there will be interactions with them. Most mentally healthy people find these interactions pleasant and fulfilling even, but clearly you do not. That is not typical and the world should not be required to adjust to your extreme hypersensitivity. Try meds, therapy or consider in patient treatment. I wish you well

I managed to own a dog for 15 years, living in an apartment in urban areas, without him touching a single person on our walk who didn't specifically ask to pet him. Most people do not find a strange dog they don't know touching them without a clear affirmative consent "pleasant and fulfilling". They find it invasive. The fact that you think that's "extreme hypersensitivity" is bizarre.

There is middle ground here. I am a dog owner. I absolutely hate off-leash dogs, and I never intentionally bring my dog to someone without them expressly inviting it. But also if you're walking on a city sidewalk, my dog might turn around to sniff you and might even boop you with his snout because there just isn't a lot of room to pass and my dog isn't perfect. The interaction won't be long because I keep his leash very short when we pass someone, but I can't guarantee perfect.

Shorten your leash or don't have a dog if you cannot walk them without it touching other people or invading their space

I grab dog’s leash so he’s right up against me. The sidewalk is like 6 feet wide or less. Two people plus a dog means we’re all coming in close proximity.

So when you’re coming into close proximity with someone who is indicating they want to avoid your dog, stop, put yourself between your dog and the other person and make your dog is secure. If shortening the leash can’t assure your control, then hold the collar, use both hands, sit on the ground with the dog in your lap while you hug it, pick it up altogether, step off the sidewalk so the other person can pass, hire a dog walker who can control the dog, take it some place where there’s no chance of it being too close to others who don’t welcome interaction, or leave the dog home altogether. The fact is that every single human has the right to use the sidewalk without being accosted by a dog. Dogs are extended the privilege of sidewalk access only when the owner’s control insures they don’t inconvenience other people.

This cannot be a serious post. You would rather I sit on the sidewalk and hug my well behaved properly leashed dog than literally step to the side, as I will do, as we pass?

The dog hating insanity has gone off the deep end.

DP here: If your dog is so well behaved then you can see someone who is approaching and move him to the other side. Or stop and put them in a sit. Or have them on a head collar so you can keep them looking at you.

If none of those work then your dog doesn’t belong on crowded sidewalks, so your options would include driving to a less crowded place or physically restraining your dog, or getting a dog trainer.

No. I have no obligation to do that. Keeping
My dog on a short leash is plenty. Both my dog and I are allowed to be there. If you hate dogs that much, then YOU move. We’re not talking about a restaurant or grocery store where dogs are prohibited. These are dog-friendly sidewalks and walking trails.

Who made them dog friendly? You don’t get to just proclaim that.

Your dog will never have as many rights as the person walking, you lunatic.

The “dogs permitted on a six-foot leash” sign, the county ordinances, the laws? Are you insane?

These are laws that allow dogs, it doesn't make the place dog-friendly. The laws are saying "you MAY bring your dog here, but only if the dog doesn't bother people."

It's like how there are lots of place kids are allowed but are not "kid-friendly" places. Restaurants and airplanes, for instance. You can bring kids there, but if your kid is running around, bothering other people, screaming, etc, then you will be asked to leave or you might be banned from the airline or. held accountable for your kids' behavior in other ways. A "kid-friendly" place is a playground, a school, a kid's birthday party, a family restaurant, Chuck-e-Cheese, etc. Places where kids can run amok and no one cares.

Honey, these places are literally listed on the county website as “dog-friendly” places.

Yes, parks where dogs are free to run around and are encouraged to congregate.

There is no such thing as a "dog friendly sidewalk." Dogs must be controlled on sidewalks. Always.

HONEY.

Are sidewalks human friendly? Humans still have to behave on sidewalks. You’re absolutely insufferable. Leashed dogs are allowed to be on sidewalks. And they’re allowed to exhibit normal, safe behavior on sidewalks.

I don't know if anyone has explained this to you yet, but dogs and humans are different.

Both are allowed on sidewalks only under certain parameters.

Nope.

Humans are entitled to sidewalks. If a sidewalk doesn't accommodate a human because they are in a wheelchair, for instance, that human can sue the city and force them to change the sidewalk to ensure the human has access to it.

Dogs are merely permitted on sidewalks if their owners follow specific rules that are designed to ensure the presence of the dog doesn't inhibit the ability of other humans to use it. If a dog can't use a sidewalk (say it's a dachshund and the sidewalk has obstacles that would make it impossible for such a short animal to use it) it doesn't matter -- that dog owner just has to figure out something else.

Again, humans and dogs are different.

Nope! Humans have to comport themselves with care and control on sidewalks. They can’t jump on people or grab people. They can’t engage in illegal conduct. They typically aren’t allowed to ride bikes on the sidewalk. They are allowed on sidewalks only so long as they’re behaving lawfully and reasonably.

We don't currently have a scourge of people jumping on or grabbing other people on sidewalks because, and say it with me this time: humans and dogs are different.

lol have you ever gone into DC

lol I live in DC and in the part where people do all kinds of obnoxious and even criminal things and yet even here, I never have people running up to me, sticking their faces in my crotch, or licking me.

Because humans and dogs are different.

People literally sleep on sidewalks and absolutely intentionally touch strangers

A person sleeping on a sidewalk doesn't actually harm me. I don't love it but as long as they aren't obstructing the sidewalk, it doesn't impact me.

I've lived in DC for 25 years and have never been intentionally touched by a stranger.

If a person walked up to me and licked me or stuck their face in my crotch, I would call the cops and press charges and they would be arrested. Why should a dog be allowed to do something that would be a criminal act by a human?

Because, as you keep noting, dogs and humans are different.

All jokes aside, dogs don’t have “intent,” and evidently you have been unintentionally touched by humans on the sidewalk. And aren’t you the one who said it is NEVER OKAY for a dog to brush up against a human?

The fact that dogs don't have intent and don't understand that not everyone is okay being near them is explicitly why dogs are required to be leashed and humans are not.

The point of the leash is for you to force your dog to do things that humans are expected to do without a leash, like not sniff and lick everyone walking past. If you just leash your dog but continue to let them do these things that would get a human arrested, then you aren't actually complying with the leash law, which is why leash laws almost always including phrasing like "controlled by a leash" of a certain length. The law doesn't just require your dog to have a leash, they require the owner to be actively using the leash to keep their dog away from other people.

Because human beings are capable of intent and can understand stuff like assault laws or even just social norms, we don't leash them. But if a human violates these rules they can be arrested and/or publicly shunned and shamed, whereas a dog cannot be because a dog isn't a person.

The problems is that many dog owners think leashes are for decoration and that dogs should be permitted to bother anyone they want as long as they aren't biting or attacking, and that's explicitly not what the law says. The law says you need to control your dog via a leash (which means pulling it away from anyone they approach unless that person has explicitly given permission to be approached).

Thus how a dog owner comes to believe a sidewalk is a "dog friendly" space simply because their dog isn't banned from being there, and the dog should be permitted to wander and approach people at will. It's a fundamental misunderstanding of the law and why it exists.

Once again being pedantic and moving the goal posts. Nobody said it’s okay for an owner to let a dog jump on or lick a stranger. But you said it’s not okay for a dog to brush up against a person accidentally. That’s not true and it’s a gross and unreasonable overreaction to a normal part of life that comes with being in public spaces that are dog-friendly (yes, there is no difference between being “dog-allowed” and “dog-friendly” because it’s still not okay for a dog to jump on or lick someone in the overwhelming majority of dog-friendly spaces).

If your point is that owners need to use the leash the stop their dogs from jumping up on strangers, then we’re in heated agreement. If your point is that people with dogs need to jump off the sidewalk and give a three-foot berth to anyone passing them because they might take extreme offense to the dog’s fur rubbing up against them, then you’re absolutely insane.

I never said that. The number of circumstances where a dog owner couldn't prevent their dog from brushing against people incidentally without decent training and leash control is so infinitesimal that I dont' even think it's worth addressing.

The vast majority of the time, if your dog is bumping into other people, it's because you aren't sufficiently controlling them in a public space.

You’re not the person who said: “Dogs are one hundred percent not allowed to brush up against anyone you idiot.”?

I’m going to start touching dog owners when they allow their dog to touch me without my consent. A little pet on the head is fine right?

It’s a common occurrence to brush up against people accidentally at restaurants, bars, airports, public transit, concerts, and *gasp* sidewalks. So yeah, that’d be fine.

When you idiots try to compare dog to people you sound unhinged. You know that right?

No one is walking me on a leash you moron.

Accidental, incidental touching in a crowded place is not offensive by a reasonable person standard. The law is not going to recognize your deep offense. Acknowledge your belief is idiosyncratic and the world doesn’t revolve around you.

Your dog is not supposed to be in crowded places where you are not able to keep them from touching other people. Keep your dog away from people you insufferable moron. Your entitlement is off the charts.

Dogs aren’t allowed to pass people on a narrow sidewalk? Dogs aren’t allowed on Manhattan sidewalks? Be real here. You know this isn’t true, and you’re the one expecting the world to revolve around you and your bizarre hypersensitivity.

You put your dog on the outside. How can you not see that obvious solution. People who walk their dog so it’s in the middle of the sidewalk are selfish idiots.

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Anonymous wrote:Honestly this is something YOU have to get over. You are clearly not well mentally and while I feel sorry for your history, you do live in a society where people have pets and children, etc and there will be interactions with them. Most mentally healthy people find these interactions pleasant and fulfilling even, but clearly you do not. That is not typical and the world should not be required to adjust to your extreme hypersensitivity. Try meds, therapy or consider in patient treatment. I wish you well

I managed to own a dog for 15 years, living in an apartment in urban areas, without him touching a single person on our walk who didn't specifically ask to pet him. Most people do not find a strange dog they don't know touching them without a clear affirmative consent "pleasant and fulfilling". They find it invasive. The fact that you think that's "extreme hypersensitivity" is bizarre.

There is middle ground here. I am a dog owner. I absolutely hate off-leash dogs, and I never intentionally bring my dog to someone without them expressly inviting it. But also if you're walking on a city sidewalk, my dog might turn around to sniff you and might even boop you with his snout because there just isn't a lot of room to pass and my dog isn't perfect. The interaction won't be long because I keep his leash very short when we pass someone, but I can't guarantee perfect.

Shorten your leash or don't have a dog if you cannot walk them without it touching other people or invading their space

I grab dog’s leash so he’s right up against me. The sidewalk is like 6 feet wide or less. Two people plus a dog means we’re all coming in close proximity.

So when you’re coming into close proximity with someone who is indicating they want to avoid your dog, stop, put yourself between your dog and the other person and make your dog is secure. If shortening the leash can’t assure your control, then hold the collar, use both hands, sit on the ground with the dog in your lap while you hug it, pick it up altogether, step off the sidewalk so the other person can pass, hire a dog walker who can control the dog, take it some place where there’s no chance of it being too close to others who don’t welcome interaction, or leave the dog home altogether. The fact is that every single human has the right to use the sidewalk without being accosted by a dog. Dogs are extended the privilege of sidewalk access only when the owner’s control insures they don’t inconvenience other people.

This cannot be a serious post. You would rather I sit on the sidewalk and hug my well behaved properly leashed dog than literally step to the side, as I will do, as we pass?

The dog hating insanity has gone off the deep end.

DP here: If your dog is so well behaved then you can see someone who is approaching and move him to the other side. Or stop and put them in a sit. Or have them on a head collar so you can keep them looking at you.

If none of those work then your dog doesn’t belong on crowded sidewalks, so your options would include driving to a less crowded place or physically restraining your dog, or getting a dog trainer.

No. I have no obligation to do that. Keeping
My dog on a short leash is plenty. Both my dog and I are allowed to be there. If you hate dogs that much, then YOU move. We’re not talking about a restaurant or grocery store where dogs are prohibited. These are dog-friendly sidewalks and walking trails.

Who made them dog friendly? You don’t get to just proclaim that.

Your dog will never have as many rights as the person walking, you lunatic.

The “dogs permitted on a six-foot leash” sign, the county ordinances, the laws? Are you insane?

These are laws that allow dogs, it doesn't make the place dog-friendly. The laws are saying "you MAY bring your dog here, but only if the dog doesn't bother people."

It's like how there are lots of place kids are allowed but are not "kid-friendly" places. Restaurants and airplanes, for instance. You can bring kids there, but if your kid is running around, bothering other people, screaming, etc, then you will be asked to leave or you might be banned from the airline or. held accountable for your kids' behavior in other ways. A "kid-friendly" place is a playground, a school, a kid's birthday party, a family restaurant, Chuck-e-Cheese, etc. Places where kids can run amok and no one cares.

Honey, these places are literally listed on the county website as “dog-friendly” places.

Yes, parks where dogs are free to run around and are encouraged to congregate.

There is no such thing as a "dog friendly sidewalk." Dogs must be controlled on sidewalks. Always.

HONEY.

Are sidewalks human friendly? Humans still have to behave on sidewalks. You’re absolutely insufferable. Leashed dogs are allowed to be on sidewalks. And they’re allowed to exhibit normal, safe behavior on sidewalks.

I don't know if anyone has explained this to you yet, but dogs and humans are different.

Both are allowed on sidewalks only under certain parameters.

Nope.

Humans are entitled to sidewalks. If a sidewalk doesn't accommodate a human because they are in a wheelchair, for instance, that human can sue the city and force them to change the sidewalk to ensure the human has access to it.

Dogs are merely permitted on sidewalks if their owners follow specific rules that are designed to ensure the presence of the dog doesn't inhibit the ability of other humans to use it. If a dog can't use a sidewalk (say it's a dachshund and the sidewalk has obstacles that would make it impossible for such a short animal to use it) it doesn't matter -- that dog owner just has to figure out something else.

Again, humans and dogs are different.

Nope! Humans have to comport themselves with care and control on sidewalks. They can’t jump on people or grab people. They can’t engage in illegal conduct. They typically aren’t allowed to ride bikes on the sidewalk. They are allowed on sidewalks only so long as they’re behaving lawfully and reasonably.

We don't currently have a scourge of people jumping on or grabbing other people on sidewalks because, and say it with me this time: humans and dogs are different.

lol have you ever gone into DC

lol I live in DC and in the part where people do all kinds of obnoxious and even criminal things and yet even here, I never have people running up to me, sticking their faces in my crotch, or licking me.

Because humans and dogs are different.

People literally sleep on sidewalks and absolutely intentionally touch strangers

A person sleeping on a sidewalk doesn't actually harm me. I don't love it but as long as they aren't obstructing the sidewalk, it doesn't impact me.

I've lived in DC for 25 years and have never been intentionally touched by a stranger.

If a person walked up to me and licked me or stuck their face in my crotch, I would call the cops and press charges and they would be arrested. Why should a dog be allowed to do something that would be a criminal act by a human?

Because, as you keep noting, dogs and humans are different.

All jokes aside, dogs don’t have “intent,” and evidently you have been unintentionally touched by humans on the sidewalk. And aren’t you the one who said it is NEVER OKAY for a dog to brush up against a human?

The fact that dogs don't have intent and don't understand that not everyone is okay being near them is explicitly why dogs are required to be leashed and humans are not.

The point of the leash is for you to force your dog to do things that humans are expected to do without a leash, like not sniff and lick everyone walking past. If you just leash your dog but continue to let them do these things that would get a human arrested, then you aren't actually complying with the leash law, which is why leash laws almost always including phrasing like "controlled by a leash" of a certain length. The law doesn't just require your dog to have a leash, they require the owner to be actively using the leash to keep their dog away from other people.

Because human beings are capable of intent and can understand stuff like assault laws or even just social norms, we don't leash them. But if a human violates these rules they can be arrested and/or publicly shunned and shamed, whereas a dog cannot be because a dog isn't a person.

The problems is that many dog owners think leashes are for decoration and that dogs should be permitted to bother anyone they want as long as they aren't biting or attacking, and that's explicitly not what the law says. The law says you need to control your dog via a leash (which means pulling it away from anyone they approach unless that person has explicitly given permission to be approached).

Thus how a dog owner comes to believe a sidewalk is a "dog friendly" space simply because their dog isn't banned from being there, and the dog should be permitted to wander and approach people at will. It's a fundamental misunderstanding of the law and why it exists.

Once again being pedantic and moving the goal posts. Nobody said it’s okay for an owner to let a dog jump on or lick a stranger. But you said it’s not okay for a dog to brush up against a person accidentally. That’s not true and it’s a gross and unreasonable overreaction to a normal part of life that comes with being in public spaces that are dog-friendly (yes, there is no difference between being “dog-allowed” and “dog-friendly” because it’s still not okay for a dog to jump on or lick someone in the overwhelming majority of dog-friendly spaces).

If your point is that owners need to use the leash the stop their dogs from jumping up on strangers, then we’re in heated agreement. If your point is that people with dogs need to jump off the sidewalk and give a three-foot berth to anyone passing them because they might take extreme offense to the dog’s fur rubbing up against them, then you’re absolutely insane.

I never said that. The number of circumstances where a dog owner couldn't prevent their dog from brushing against people incidentally without decent training and leash control is so infinitesimal that I dont' even think it's worth addressing.

The vast majority of the time, if your dog is bumping into other people, it's because you aren't sufficiently controlling them in a public space.

You’re not the person who said: “Dogs are one hundred percent not allowed to brush up against anyone you idiot.”?

I’m going to start touching dog owners when they allow their dog to touch me without my consent. A little pet on the head is fine right?

It’s a common occurrence to brush up against people accidentally at restaurants, bars, airports, public transit, concerts, and *gasp* sidewalks. So yeah, that’d be fine.

When you idiots try to compare dog to people you sound unhinged. You know that right?

No one is walking me on a leash you moron.

Accidental, incidental touching in a crowded place is not offensive by a reasonable person standard. The law is not going to recognize your deep offense. Acknowledge your belief is idiosyncratic and the world doesn’t revolve around you.

Your dog is not supposed to be in crowded places where you are not able to keep them from touching other people. Keep your dog away from people you insufferable moron. Your entitlement is off the charts.

Dogs aren’t allowed to pass people on a narrow sidewalk? Dogs aren’t allowed on Manhattan sidewalks? Be real here. You know this isn’t true, and you’re the one expecting the world to revolve around you and your bizarre hypersensitivity.

You put your dog on the outside. How can you not see that obvious solution. People who walk their dog so it’s in the middle of the sidewalk are selfish idiots.

I do it when I can but it’s not always possible. And there’s absolutely no rule that I have to. Grow up.

[Anonymous]

I think dogs are gross And dirty. I definitely don't want a dog touching or licking me if I am walking on the street...it is a shared space, so owners should control their leashed dogs and I will intentionally give plenty of distance and space, to the extent possible. Both need to be mindful of each other...and be aware that preferences differ.

[Anonymous]

I am mildly allergic to dogs. It's becoming more of a problem because dog owners are out of control

The worst is elevators. Look, I'll get out if you're in a rush. But I really don't want to be in a small confined space with your dog. So, give me a chance to get out. Don't just barge in. I'll survive being in the elevator for 2 or 3 minutes. But if that elevator were to get stuck for 30 minutes, there's a good chance I am going to have a great deal of trouble breathing. So, please dog owners, ASK if anyone minds getting in with your dog if there are people already in the elevator.

Today I went to Trader Joe's. I got in line and all of a sudden I started getting stuffed up and sneezing. I looked around and a woman in the next line --this TJ's has 2 lines that feed into one--had a bag over her shoulder. In the bag was a small dog. So the dog was about 8 inches, if that, from my face. Unless I wanted to get off line and wait another 10 or 15 minutes, there was nothing I could do. It's clearly NOT a service dog and emotional support dogs are NOT allowed in grocery stores--and, frankly, I don't think this was an emotional support dog anyway.

It really gets me that so many public schools are nut free because of children's allergies but dog owners seem to think that those of us who are allergic to dogs, cats, and other animals just have to feel miserable or "stay home." That includes CHILDREN who are allergic to animals. Take a kid with allergies to play in a soccer game and some idiot is going to bring their dog with them and let them run up to the players. Gee, it's a great winning strategy when an opposing player has to take out an asthma inhaler or is just sneezing his/her head off and trying to find a tissue because their nose is dripping because of your dog.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am mildly allergic to dogs. It's becoming more of a problem because dog owners are out of control

The worst is elevators. Look, I'll get out if you're in a rush. But I really don't want to be in a small confined space with your dog. So, give me a chance to get out. Don't just barge in. I'll survive being in the elevator for 2 or 3 minutes. But if that elevator were to get stuck for 30 minutes, there's a good chance I am going to have a great deal of trouble breathing. So, please dog owners, ASK if anyone minds getting in with your dog if there are people already in the elevator.

Today I went to Trader Joe's. I got in line and all of a sudden I started getting stuffed up and sneezing. I looked around and a woman in the next line --this TJ's has 2 lines that feed into one--had a bag over her shoulder. In the bag was a small dog. So the dog was about 8 inches, if that, from my face. Unless I wanted to get off line and wait another 10 or 15 minutes, there was nothing I could do. It's clearly NOT a service dog and emotional support dogs are NOT allowed in grocery stores--and, frankly, I don't think this was an emotional support dog anyway.

It really gets me that so many public schools are nut free because of children's allergies but dog owners seem to think that those of us who are allergic to dogs, cats, and other animals just have to feel miserable or "stay home." That includes CHILDREN who are allergic to animals. Take a kid with allergies to play in a soccer game and some idiot is going to bring their dog with them and let them run up to the players. Gee, it's a great winning strategy when an opposing player has to take out an asthma inhaler or is just sneezing his/her head off and trying to find a tissue because their nose is dripping because of your dog.

Insanity. I live in a dog-friendly building, pay a large pet deposit, and pay $100 in monthly pet rent. I don’t need permission to take my dog on the elevator.

Regarding allergies, the reason they’re treated differently from food allergies is because food allergies are far more serious. I actually have a serious enough cat allergy that I got an EpiPen (and get allergy shots), but brief proximity to an animal, like in an elevator, is not going to trigger a serious allergic reaction in 99.99% of people. Typically you need to be in a confined space with the animal for an extended period of time or pet the animal to have a significant reaction. There are near zero documented instances of anaphylaxis caused by animal allergies. Definitely not the case with food allergies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am mildly allergic to dogs. It's becoming more of a problem because dog owners are out of control

The worst is elevators. Look, I'll get out if you're in a rush. But I really don't want to be in a small confined space with your dog. So, give me a chance to get out. Don't just barge in. I'll survive being in the elevator for 2 or 3 minutes. But if that elevator were to get stuck for 30 minutes, there's a good chance I am going to have a great deal of trouble breathing. So, please dog owners, ASK if anyone minds getting in with your dog if there are people already in the elevator.

Today I went to Trader Joe's. I got in line and all of a sudden I started getting stuffed up and sneezing. I looked around and a woman in the next line --this TJ's has 2 lines that feed into one--had a bag over her shoulder. In the bag was a small dog. So the dog was about 8 inches, if that, from my face. Unless I wanted to get off line and wait another 10 or 15 minutes, there was nothing I could do. It's clearly NOT a service dog and emotional support dogs are NOT allowed in grocery stores--and, frankly, I don't think this was an emotional support dog anyway.

It really gets me that so many public schools are nut free because of children's allergies but dog owners seem to think that those of us who are allergic to dogs, cats, and other animals just have to feel miserable or "stay home." That includes CHILDREN who are allergic to animals. Take a kid with allergies to play in a soccer game and some idiot is going to bring their dog with them and let them run up to the players. Gee, it's a great winning strategy when an opposing player has to take out an asthma inhaler or is just sneezing his/her head off and trying to find a tissue because their nose is dripping because of your dog.

Insanity. I live in a dog-friendly building, pay a large pet deposit, and pay $100 in monthly pet rent. I don’t need permission to take my dog on the elevator.

Regarding allergies, the reason they’re treated differently from food allergies is because food allergies are far more serious. I actually have a serious enough cat allergy that I got an EpiPen (and get allergy shots), but brief proximity to an animal, like in an elevator, is not going to trigger a serious allergic reaction in 99.99% of people. Typically you need to be in a confined space with the animal for an extended period of time or pet the animal to have a significant reaction. There are near zero documented instances of anaphylaxis caused by animal allergies. Definitely not the case with food allergies.

More Americans die of asthma than of anaphylaxis every year.

Having said that, I agree that people who have severe pet allergies should pick apartment buildings that don’t allow animals, not expect people to skip the elevator.

0n the other hand, pet owners should put their pet between them and the elevator wall, so the pet doesn’t touch anyone. If it’s so crowded that that’s not possible wait for the next one.