APS boundary process this fall?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Move MS immersion to WMS and HS to Yorktown.

That would kill the program - and we can leave aside the question of the program’s value - so it’s not a solution. (If the program dies a couple years after a move like this, then we’ll just be in the same place we’re in now in two years.)

Moving and expanding HB is a much better long-term solution; so many people want those seats that they will go wherever the program is. The program will thrive wherever it is.

While I doubt that would ever realistically happen, wouldn’t expanding HB simply exacerbate the segregation among the schools? APS has tried but failed to make HB a truly diverse school. And there was the lawsuit 30 years ago that nipped one such diversity effort at HB and ATS in the bud.

I think that’s one of the reasons why the multiple HB idea was scuttled a few years back to deal with the then high school overcrowding. Briefly APS seriously considered three or four HB Woodlawns scattered around the county. But it was an expensive idea that would’ve made the segregation worse at the middle and high school levels.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Move MS immersion to WMS and HS to Yorktown.

That would kill the program - and we can leave aside the question of the program’s value - so it’s not a solution. (If the program dies a couple years after a move like this, then we’ll just be in the same place we’re in now in two years.)

Moving and expanding HB is a much better long-term solution; so many people want those seats that they will go wherever the program is. The program will thrive wherever it is.

They will never move HB, though I wish they would just move it and offer it to more students. What could go in the HB building? I can't remember where I read this (CIP report appendix?) but the housing development that will create the most seats in the next 5ish years is that Marbella affordable housing development in Rosslyn. Would they potentially make a neighborhood school there?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Move MS immersion to WMS and HS to Yorktown.

That would kill the program - and we can leave aside the question of the program’s value - so it’s not a solution. (If the program dies a couple years after a move like this, then we’ll just be in the same place we’re in now in two years.)

Moving and expanding HB is a much better long-term solution; so many people want those seats that they will go wherever the program is. The program will thrive wherever it is.

While I doubt that would ever realistically happen, wouldn’t expanding HB simply exacerbate the segregation among the schools? APS has tried but failed to make HB a truly diverse school. And there was the lawsuit 30 years ago that nipped one such diversity effort at HB and ATS in the bud.

I think that’s one of the reasons why the multiple HB idea was scuttled a few years back to deal with the then high school overcrowding. Briefly APS seriously considered three or four HB Woodlawns scattered around the county. But it was an expensive idea that would’ve made the segregation worse at the middle and high school levels.

If APS cares about segregated schools, the only path forward is sending everyone back to the neighborhood schools. And they will never do that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Move MS immersion to WMS and HS to Yorktown.

That would kill the program - and we can leave aside the question of the program’s value - so it’s not a solution. (If the program dies a couple years after a move like this, then we’ll just be in the same place we’re in now in two years.)

Moving and expanding HB is a much better long-term solution; so many people want those seats that they will go wherever the program is. The program will thrive wherever it is.

They will never move HB, though I wish they would just move it and offer it to more students. What could go in the HB building? I can't remember where I read this (CIP report appendix?) but the housing development that will create the most seats in the next 5ish years is that Marbella affordable housing development in Rosslyn. Would they potentially make a neighborhood school there?

The new school was designed for HB. APS won't move the program and it won't become a neighborhood elementary school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just kill Montessori once and for all

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Move MS immersion to WMS and HS to Yorktown.

That would kill the program - and we can leave aside the question of the program’s value - so it’s not a solution. (If the program dies a couple years after a move like this, then we’ll just be in the same place we’re in now in two years.)

Moving and expanding HB is a much better long-term solution; so many people want those seats that they will go wherever the program is. The program will thrive wherever it is.

They will never move HB, though I wish they would just move it and offer it to more students. What could go in the HB building? I can't remember where I read this (CIP report appendix?) but the housing development that will create the most seats in the next 5ish years is that Marbella affordable housing development in Rosslyn. Would they potentially make a neighborhood school there?

They've been holding space at Innovation for the Marbella redevelopment kids. It's going to push the FARMS rate to 50%, but that's never bothered APS before.

For middle they will continue to send as much of the R-B corridor as possible to Hamm even if that means sending walkers to Williamsburg. They are building all of the new CAF buildings with half a parking space per unit and saying everyone will use public transit, it's not politically viable to send them to Williamsburg.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Move MS immersion to WMS and HS to Yorktown.

That would kill the program - and we can leave aside the question of the program’s value - so it’s not a solution. (If the program dies a couple years after a move like this, then we’ll just be in the same place we’re in now in two years.)

Moving and expanding HB is a much better long-term solution; so many people want those seats that they will go wherever the program is. The program will thrive wherever it is.

They will never move HB, though I wish they would just move it and offer it to more students. What could go in the HB building? I can't remember where I read this (CIP report appendix?) but the housing development that will create the most seats in the next 5ish years is that Marbella affordable housing development in Rosslyn. Would they potentially make a neighborhood school there?

They've been holding space at Innovation for the Marbella redevelopment kids. It's going to push the FARMS rate to 50%, but that's never bothered APS before.

For middle they will continue to send as much of the R-B corridor as possible to Hamm even if that means sending walkers to Williamsburg. They are building all of the new CAF buildings with half a parking space per unit and saying everyone will use public transit, it's not politically viable to send them to Williamsburg.

Is that Marbella development even happening? It seems like the County and APAH are twisting themselves into a pretzel trying to cobble together loans and funding, all while construction costs continue to rise. I wouldn't be totally shocked if that thing never gets built on the scale that is currently planned.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Move MS immersion to WMS and HS to Yorktown.

That would kill the program - and we can leave aside the question of the program’s value - so it’s not a solution. (If the program dies a couple years after a move like this, then we’ll just be in the same place we’re in now in two years.)

Moving and expanding HB is a much better long-term solution; so many people want those seats that they will go wherever the program is. The program will thrive wherever it is.

They will never move HB, though I wish they would just move it and offer it to more students. What could go in the HB building? I can't remember where I read this (CIP report appendix?) but the housing development that will create the most seats in the next 5ish years is that Marbella affordable housing development in Rosslyn. Would they potentially make a neighborhood school there?

They've been holding space at Innovation for the Marbella redevelopment kids. It's going to push the FARMS rate to 50%, but that's never bothered APS before.

For middle they will continue to send as much of the R-B corridor as possible to Hamm even if that means sending walkers to Williamsburg. They are building all of the new CAF buildings with half a parking space per unit and saying everyone will use public transit, it's not politically viable to send them to Williamsburg.

Is that Marbella development even happening? It seems like the County and APAH are twisting themselves into a pretzel trying to cobble together loans and funding, all while construction costs continue to rise. I wouldn't be totally shocked if that thing never gets built on the scale that is currently planned.

The first building is well underway. Look for it on the right if you are driving towards DC on 50, it's impossible to miss. The funding package was done on that one before the interest rates went up. I have also heard that funding is a problem on the second tower. It would be spectacular if it didn't happen, there's no reason to have two massive CAF buildings right next to each other in that location.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Move MS immersion to WMS and HS to Yorktown.

That would kill the program - and we can leave aside the question of the program’s value - so it’s not a solution. (If the program dies a couple years after a move like this, then we’ll just be in the same place we’re in now in two years.)

Moving and expanding HB is a much better long-term solution; so many people want those seats that they will go wherever the program is. The program will thrive wherever it is.

They will never move HB, though I wish they would just move it and offer it to more students. What could go in the HB building? I can't remember where I read this (CIP report appendix?) but the housing development that will create the most seats in the next 5ish years is that Marbella affordable housing development in Rosslyn. Would they potentially make a neighborhood school there?

They've been holding space at Innovation for the Marbella redevelopment kids. It's going to push the FARMS rate to 50%, but that's never bothered APS before.

For middle they will continue to send as much of the R-B corridor as possible to Hamm even if that means sending walkers to Williamsburg. They are building all of the new CAF buildings with half a parking space per unit and saying everyone will use public transit, it's not politically viable to send them to Williamsburg.

Is that Marbella development even happening? It seems like the County and APAH are twisting themselves into a pretzel trying to cobble together loans and funding, all while construction costs continue to rise. I wouldn't be totally shocked if that thing never gets built on the scale that is currently planned.

The first building is well underway. Look for it on the right if you are driving towards DC on 50, it's impossible to miss. The funding package was done on that one before the interest rates went up. I have also heard that funding is a problem on the second tower. It would be spectacular if it didn't happen, there's no reason to have two massive CAF buildings right next to each other in that location.

Thanks for the info, I know it was supposed to open in late 2025 but didn't know it started. I bet the funding issues I heard about were also in relation to that second tower.

[Anonymous]

The county should fund it. Seriously NA will survive 2 CAF buildings eye roll 🙄

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Didn’t immersion serve a dedicated Hispanic ESL population when it was a neighborhood school, Key ES at its original Courthouse location? It moved and became an option program because upper middle class families wanted more room for their kids in the program.

I doubt all immersion families truly value the original purpose of immersion, to help ESL students. It’s become a prized option program.

Uh no, the Key community didn't want to move. APS wanted to put a neighborhood elementary school at the Key location and forced the move. Key still follows the 50/50 model that it did before the move. That hasn't changed at all.

And did it die like you cried when they moved Key to the former ATS site? No. MS can also move without destroying the program. It’s not serving the largest populations of ESL kids now at any level from K-12, who are in the South Arlington neighborhood schools, schools which you want to further segregate and impoverish for your own selfish convenience.

No, but the move forced us to go from 6 K classes to 4 due to reduced building size. So APS shrunk the immersion program with the move. That is a big part of why we fought the move.

But they objections were that the Hispanic families (in particular ESL) wouldn’t follow the program and would just stay at the neighborhood school. If that hasn’t actually happened, then you can’t really cry foul about moving the location of the MS program. Yes, it’s less convenient for the kids who come up from Claremont and make up the current majority of the MS program, but it might mean attracting more Key students who currently don’t want the long commute to Gunston to stay in immersion. It may change who opts to stay in the program long term, but if it’s still attracting kids from both English and Spanish speaking families, I don’t think it matters whether they come from the Claremont or Key community. And if the program itself isn’t harmed by a move, and I argue that it would not be harmed just like Key was not harmed, it is the simplest and least disruptive way to address the imbalance of population at the MS level.

For those who are advocating moving the middle school immersion program, I want to make sure you known there’s also a high school immersion program. That program is located at Wakefield. Are you all also proposing to move that program, or are you saying immersion kids should just go Key or Claremont/Williamsburg/Wakefield? It isn’t simple and it is disruptive to move the middle school program 20 minutes away, especially without a coherent plan for the high school program.

Wakefield is also very overcrowded, so perhaps that should be on the table during boundary discussions! It’s almost an entirely self-contained program. Kids in Immersion only take PE in 9/10 and their one elective and have lunch with non-immersion students. I’m not sure it would matter if they are at Wakefield or Yorktown since they’re an entity unto themselves and pretty much have their own friend groups, the kids they were friends with in the ES and MS Immersion programs. There just isn’t a ton of mixing about. Do you have a kid this age yet? Just wait and see.

How many immersion students continue with the program through high school? Is it the majority? Does it entail a transfer, or is it guaranteed admission to Wakefield?

It was only 25 students to Senior level. None of this is even worth the discussion.

The immersion program could be closed tomorrow. The Hispanic families don’t care, they have to be lured in, and simply pick the closest school in most cases. The other families are only avoiding some other school until it is not necessary anymore, even if they rationalize otherwise. This explains the drop to 25 seniors.

Where did you come up with 25 seniors? Pretty sure that’s wrong.

And I’m so, so tired of the narrative that parents choose immersion to avoid S Arlington schools. Key is choked full of kids zoned for Taylor, Glebe, ASFS, Innovation, etc. I know plenty of families zoned for Hamm & Yorktown who send their kids to Gunston & Wakefield.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Didn’t immersion serve a dedicated Hispanic ESL population when it was a neighborhood school, Key ES at its original Courthouse location? It moved and became an option program because upper middle class families wanted more room for their kids in the program.

I doubt all immersion families truly value the original purpose of immersion, to help ESL students. It’s become a prized option program.

Uh no, the Key community didn't want to move. APS wanted to put a neighborhood elementary school at the Key location and forced the move. Key still follows the 50/50 model that it did before the move. That hasn't changed at all.

And did it die like you cried when they moved Key to the former ATS site? No. MS can also move without destroying the program. It’s not serving the largest populations of ESL kids now at any level from K-12, who are in the South Arlington neighborhood schools, schools which you want to further segregate and impoverish for your own selfish convenience.

No, but the move forced us to go from 6 K classes to 4 due to reduced building size. So APS shrunk the immersion program with the move. That is a big part of why we fought the move.

But they objections were that the Hispanic families (in particular ESL) wouldn’t follow the program and would just stay at the neighborhood school. If that hasn’t actually happened, then you can’t really cry foul about moving the location of the MS program. Yes, it’s less convenient for the kids who come up from Claremont and make up the current majority of the MS program, but it might mean attracting more Key students who currently don’t want the long commute to Gunston to stay in immersion. It may change who opts to stay in the program long term, but if it’s still attracting kids from both English and Spanish speaking families, I don’t think it matters whether they come from the Claremont or Key community. And if the program itself isn’t harmed by a move, and I argue that it would not be harmed just like Key was not harmed, it is the simplest and least disruptive way to address the imbalance of population at the MS level.

For those who are advocating moving the middle school immersion program, I want to make sure you known there’s also a high school immersion program. That program is located at Wakefield. Are you all also proposing to move that program, or are you saying immersion kids should just go Key or Claremont/Williamsburg/Wakefield? It isn’t simple and it is disruptive to move the middle school program 20 minutes away, especially without a coherent plan for the high school program.

Wakefield is also very overcrowded, so perhaps that should be on the table during boundary discussions! It’s almost an entirely self-contained program. Kids in Immersion only take PE in 9/10 and their one elective and have lunch with non-immersion students. I’m not sure it would matter if they are at Wakefield or Yorktown since they’re an entity unto themselves and pretty much have their own friend groups, the kids they were friends with in the ES and MS Immersion programs. There just isn’t a ton of mixing about. Do you have a kid this age yet? Just wait and see.

How many immersion students continue with the program through high school? Is it the majority? Does it entail a transfer, or is it guaranteed admission to Wakefield?

It was only 25 students to Senior level. None of this is even worth the discussion.

The immersion program could be closed tomorrow. The Hispanic families don’t care, they have to be lured in, and simply pick the closest school in most cases. The other families are only avoiding some other school until it is not necessary anymore, even if they rationalize otherwise. This explains the drop to 25 seniors.

Where did you come up with 25 seniors? Pretty sure that’s wrong.

And I’m so, so tired of the narrative that parents choose immersion to avoid S Arlington schools. Key is choked full of kids zoned for Taylor, Glebe, ASFS, Innovation, etc. I know plenty of families zoned for Hamm & Yorktown who send their kids to Gunston & Wakefield.

DP here - the most recent transfer report shows the number coming into Gunston and Wakefield for DLI (Dual Language Immersion) per grade. It's not the total program size, just the number coming in from other schools

6th - 87
7th - 97
8th - 63
9th - 38
10th - 32
11th - 14
12th - 18

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Didn’t immersion serve a dedicated Hispanic ESL population when it was a neighborhood school, Key ES at its original Courthouse location? It moved and became an option program because upper middle class families wanted more room for their kids in the program.

I doubt all immersion families truly value the original purpose of immersion, to help ESL students. It’s become a prized option program.

Uh no, the Key community didn't want to move. APS wanted to put a neighborhood elementary school at the Key location and forced the move. Key still follows the 50/50 model that it did before the move. That hasn't changed at all.

And did it die like you cried when they moved Key to the former ATS site? No. MS can also move without destroying the program. It’s not serving the largest populations of ESL kids now at any level from K-12, who are in the South Arlington neighborhood schools, schools which you want to further segregate and impoverish for your own selfish convenience.

No, but the move forced us to go from 6 K classes to 4 due to reduced building size. So APS shrunk the immersion program with the move. That is a big part of why we fought the move.

But they objections were that the Hispanic families (in particular ESL) wouldn’t follow the program and would just stay at the neighborhood school. If that hasn’t actually happened, then you can’t really cry foul about moving the location of the MS program. Yes, it’s less convenient for the kids who come up from Claremont and make up the current majority of the MS program, but it might mean attracting more Key students who currently don’t want the long commute to Gunston to stay in immersion. It may change who opts to stay in the program long term, but if it’s still attracting kids from both English and Spanish speaking families, I don’t think it matters whether they come from the Claremont or Key community. And if the program itself isn’t harmed by a move, and I argue that it would not be harmed just like Key was not harmed, it is the simplest and least disruptive way to address the imbalance of population at the MS level.

For those who are advocating moving the middle school immersion program, I want to make sure you known there’s also a high school immersion program. That program is located at Wakefield. Are you all also proposing to move that program, or are you saying immersion kids should just go Key or Claremont/Williamsburg/Wakefield? It isn’t simple and it is disruptive to move the middle school program 20 minutes away, especially without a coherent plan for the high school program.

Wakefield is also very overcrowded, so perhaps that should be on the table during boundary discussions! It’s almost an entirely self-contained program. Kids in Immersion only take PE in 9/10 and their one elective and have lunch with non-immersion students. I’m not sure it would matter if they are at Wakefield or Yorktown since they’re an entity unto themselves and pretty much have their own friend groups, the kids they were friends with in the ES and MS Immersion programs. There just isn’t a ton of mixing about. Do you have a kid this age yet? Just wait and see.

How many immersion students continue with the program through high school? Is it the majority? Does it entail a transfer, or is it guaranteed admission to Wakefield?

It was only 25 students to Senior level. None of this is even worth the discussion.

The immersion program could be closed tomorrow. The Hispanic families don’t care, they have to be lured in, and simply pick the closest school in most cases. The other families are only avoiding some other school until it is not necessary anymore, even if they rationalize otherwise. This explains the drop to 25 seniors.

Where did you come up with 25 seniors? Pretty sure that’s wrong.

And I’m so, so tired of the narrative that parents choose immersion to avoid S Arlington schools. Key is choked full of kids zoned for Taylor, Glebe, ASFS, Innovation, etc. I know plenty of families zoned for Hamm & Yorktown who send their kids to Gunston & Wakefield.

Of course Key is full of North Arlington kids. That's who zoned for that school. https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/sites/57/2024/08/ES_Boundaries_SY24_25_V2.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The county should fund it. Seriously NA will survive 2 CAF buildings eye roll 🙄

Yeah, let’s get back at those jerks north of Langston by putting 560 units on the same block south of Rt 50!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Didn’t immersion serve a dedicated Hispanic ESL population when it was a neighborhood school, Key ES at its original Courthouse location? It moved and became an option program because upper middle class families wanted more room for their kids in the program.

I doubt all immersion families truly value the original purpose of immersion, to help ESL students. It’s become a prized option program.

Uh no, the Key community didn't want to move. APS wanted to put a neighborhood elementary school at the Key location and forced the move. Key still follows the 50/50 model that it did before the move. That hasn't changed at all.

And did it die like you cried when they moved Key to the former ATS site? No. MS can also move without destroying the program. It’s not serving the largest populations of ESL kids now at any level from K-12, who are in the South Arlington neighborhood schools, schools which you want to further segregate and impoverish for your own selfish convenience.

No, but the move forced us to go from 6 K classes to 4 due to reduced building size. So APS shrunk the immersion program with the move. That is a big part of why we fought the move.

But they objections were that the Hispanic families (in particular ESL) wouldn’t follow the program and would just stay at the neighborhood school. If that hasn’t actually happened, then you can’t really cry foul about moving the location of the MS program. Yes, it’s less convenient for the kids who come up from Claremont and make up the current majority of the MS program, but it might mean attracting more Key students who currently don’t want the long commute to Gunston to stay in immersion. It may change who opts to stay in the program long term, but if it’s still attracting kids from both English and Spanish speaking families, I don’t think it matters whether they come from the Claremont or Key community. And if the program itself isn’t harmed by a move, and I argue that it would not be harmed just like Key was not harmed, it is the simplest and least disruptive way to address the imbalance of population at the MS level.

For those who are advocating moving the middle school immersion program, I want to make sure you known there’s also a high school immersion program. That program is located at Wakefield. Are you all also proposing to move that program, or are you saying immersion kids should just go Key or Claremont/Williamsburg/Wakefield? It isn’t simple and it is disruptive to move the middle school program 20 minutes away, especially without a coherent plan for the high school program.

Wakefield is also very overcrowded, so perhaps that should be on the table during boundary discussions! It’s almost an entirely self-contained program. Kids in Immersion only take PE in 9/10 and their one elective and have lunch with non-immersion students. I’m not sure it would matter if they are at Wakefield or Yorktown since they’re an entity unto themselves and pretty much have their own friend groups, the kids they were friends with in the ES and MS Immersion programs. There just isn’t a ton of mixing about. Do you have a kid this age yet? Just wait and see.

How many immersion students continue with the program through high school? Is it the majority? Does it entail a transfer, or is it guaranteed admission to Wakefield?

It was only 25 students to Senior level. None of this is even worth the discussion.

The immersion program could be closed tomorrow. The Hispanic families don’t care, they have to be lured in, and simply pick the closest school in most cases. The other families are only avoiding some other school until it is not necessary anymore, even if they rationalize otherwise. This explains the drop to 25 seniors.

Where did you come up with 25 seniors? Pretty sure that’s wrong.

And I’m so, so tired of the narrative that parents choose immersion to avoid S Arlington schools. Key is choked full of kids zoned for Taylor, Glebe, ASFS, Innovation, etc. I know plenty of families zoned for Hamm & Yorktown who send their kids to Gunston & Wakefield.

DP here - the most recent transfer report shows the number coming into Gunston and Wakefield for DLI (Dual Language Immersion) per grade. It's not the total program size, just the number coming in from other schools

6th - 87
7th - 97
8th - 63
9th - 38
10th - 32
11th - 14
12th - 18

So that's probably mostly Key students, as a lot of Claremont students are already zoned for Gunston/Wakefield, and those students are the most likely to stay with the program as it's at their home schools.

By 11th and 12th, students are very focused on AP or IB for college admissions, and many immersion students will already have taken their Spanish APs in 9th or 10th. It's not that surprising that the program winds down a bit at that point. Immersion students are already fluent at that point and can use their Spanish skills outside of the classroom or in dual credit courses. I'm not sure I understand the criticism.