DP but consider the vast range of outcomes between "mother loses it and kills her children" and a large, happy family, and ask how many of those outcomes are actually good. My mom was a SAHM to four kids and she did not lose it and kill us all, but none of us were happy, including her. In fact she spent years where she spent the bulk of her day in bed because she was so depressed. Or my aunt and uncle who had 5 kids and abused all of them -- three wound up teenage parents. Three out of five! Sure, they weren't drowned in a bathtub, but... You just glide over a lot of negative outcomes for kids when you blithely say "oh sure there are outliers but surely a competent SAHP can raise 5-8 kids no problem." Those examples are rare. Everyone else has problems to varying degrees. Raising kids, any number, is not easy. More kids is harder. Most people are NOT cut out for it. |
It may be POSSIBLE but Tim Carney & go literally think women should be forced into doing it. Get this through your skull: no birth control, no abortion. |
+1 |
My understanding is that they think people who are called to Catholic marriage AND parenthood should have large families. Of course many people have other callings in life. |
Let’s call a spade a spade. Carney believes *his wife* was religiously obgligated not to use birth control get pregnant as often as possible, starting on their wedding night. Carney’s entire take on this is based on a fundamentalist belief that controlling fertility is sinful. Everything he says relates to that. Nothing he says relates to women choosing the type of family that works for them. He is against that. Literally against condoms and all forms of birth control. Do you get it now? |
DP. We are Catholic, have 5 kids, and know many families with similar numbers of children. Of course these parents competently care for their children. They might not cook elaborate meals or exercise every day or have perfectly decorated homes or be self actualized or any of the other things that DCUM believes parents should be doing. But they care for their children and maintain their homes. Their lives are just very child centric. All big decisions (home, career, etc) are done with the children in mind. |
Our neighbors have 5 kids under the age of 10 and the amount of neglect we've seen is insane. A 10 year old should not be in charge of younger children. Also they keep trying to pawn a kid or two off on us when their other children have activities. "Oh, Larla and Carla have soccer games at the exact same time, but Darla has one 45 minutes later. Can you watch her until her friend's family comes to pick her up in half an hour? Thanks!" |
Yes. I’m Catholic and am pretty familiar with this concept. People use NFP if they don’t want children, and it isn’t uncommon even for married people to practice continence for periods of time either. There are also a lot of people who are not called into marriage. It’s different than living a secular life where you don’t really have a place in your community if you don’t get married and have children (although that’s changing). |
You live in a conservative catholic bubble where child neglect is the standard of care. (Carney is up front about it: the older kids take care of the younger kids and do a lot of housework.) Meanwhile the vast majority of catholics use BC and have 1-3 kids. |
I will say, as a Catholic, this is one of the reasons that Catholics should be overly accepting and accommodating of gay people in our communities. You need to have people in your community who are not breeders! |
Is there ever a time that you see an older child playing with a younger child that you don’t consider it neglect or abuse? |
DP. Philosophically I don’t care how many people anyone “thinks” other people should have. It’s a personal decision. I do disagree with the rampant posts on dcum against parents who choose to have more than 2 kids. These posters arrogantly think that because they could only provide their definition of ideal attention and resources to two kids, therefore nobody else can handle more than 2 kids. I’m one of the previous posters who has 2 kids but grew up as 1 of 4. I had a great childhood and we were all high achieving students and are now successful adults with our own families. It depends on family resources and parental dedication. It’s a function of parents and socioeconomic factors more than number of kids. I’m not talking about families of 11 children. I’m talking about normal mid size and entry level larger families. |
It's not abuse, but it can be suboptimal care in many cases. I have orthodox Catholic neighbors with 5+ kids who both WOHM and no nanny and it's like Lord of the Flies at their house. Their youngest two kids are constantly roaming the neighborhood when their older siblings are watching them looking to be cared for by other SAHPs or nannies of other kids. |
I’m one of six and we are reasonably close as adults. But there is no question there was some neglect and as adults we have all had to grapple with that. I know very few kids raised in large families who chose that path themselves, including none of my siblings. |
Okay. You live by Greek Orthodox Catholics with two moms who both work outside the home. And the children of these lesbian Catholics aren’t playing with other kids in the neighborhood, they are just looking for random adults to care for them. Thank you for sharing. This is definitely an unusual family! |