Liberty Lost podcast - the sickening religious underbelly of domestic infant adoption

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As an adoptive parent I think your comment about selling babies to the highest bidder is insulting. All situations are not the same.
Having said that I agree with your overall post. Those homes were a disgrace and I had no idea they were still happening. The way right wing evangelicals treat other humans in the name of Christianity is horrific.

Just because your adoption didn’t go that way it doesn’t mean that it isnt a prolific practice. Maybe don’t take it so personally and acknowledge terrible things happen in this industry.

People are allowed to debate things just even if it makes you personally uncomfortable. Ridiculous.

Did you even read the rest of PP’s post? She doesn’t deserve the ignorant tongue-lashing you gave her.

Look, this is a controversial topic - to act insulted because you’re an adoptive parent is willfully denying reality.

A lot of people adopt because of the heartbreak of infertility. And clearly there there are a lot of parents who are not ready to raise children. But the fact is there is an industry of people taking infants away from others sometimes through coercion and yes, it is a multi billion dollar industry. And yes, there are many women who would keep their babies as another poster said if they simply had a few hundred dollars in a car seat.

To act insulted by this reality is astonishing to me. And no, I won’t beat around the bush or sugar coat. Adoption in human trafficking are closely linked. No matter how uncomfortable that makes you.

You chose flippant words, by blanket calling adoptive parents “the highest bidder.” That is the main part of your post that the PP took issue with, and you need to think on that. I also find those words inappropriate and unfair, and as the child of an adoptee, I find them hurtful on behalf of my parent and grandparents.

I want to give this podcast a listen agree that there is still a lot of predatory practice in the adoption world. I’m also sorry for the trauma your family has felt as a result of your mother’s experience.

I feel fortunate that my parent was adopted by a loving family. My parent who is an adoptee found their bio mother a few years ago (bio mother was in her mid 80s) and it was not a satisfactory experience for any of us - bio mother did not want to meet (her right, and understandable) but her siblings caught wind of this and forced a meeting. My parent who is an adoptee attended the meeting with the goal of telling their bio mother that they have a good life and a loving family (to hopefully bring some comfort if there was lingering guilt or worry or curiosity on the part of bio mother), and bio mother acted coldly and not interested. She died shortly afterwards. My parent who is the adoptee regrets reaching out. So do you see how it can be easy to take one’s own experience and extrapolate it to the broader issue? You are doing the same in your post, clearly your perspctive is through the lens of your family’s experience. To be clear I am not denying there is an issue with many adoptions.

- NP

And see what a hot mess this was for all involved?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Telling people that any adoption is coercive painful and a societal disgrace leaves suicide abortion or infanticide as the only other alternatives for someone who does not want a baby and does not want to keep a baby.
Just saying.

OP here. Extensive research shows that very few women in the United States make a choice between adoption or abortion. Given that abortion was relatively accessible until Roe was overturned, most women who wanted to end pregnancies ended them. Among those unable to access abortion, only a tiny percentage choose to relinquish to adoption. A woman’s first choice may have been to prevent pregnancy or end a pregnancy, but most women who carry a pregnancy to term have zero interest in relinquishing to adoption. It is far, far too painful to have a child in the world and not parent that child.

Research shows that the vast majority of women who relinquish do so for economic reasons. That’s why there is almost zero domestic infant adoptions in countries with a strong social safety net like those in Northern Europe. With access to health care, maternity leave, housing, and child care, nearly zero mothers who choose to carry a pregnancy to term ever choose adoption.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting. I may check this out.

The fact is that most people give up their babies simply for financial reasons and if they had more financial support, they would keep them. I had a coworker several years ago was very religious and very anti-abortion. Which we weren’t close so I absolutely should not have known that in the workplace and I was younger, so I just didn’t realize how inappropriate it was that he shared so much.

Anyway, he and his wife were planning on adopting and it was just because they wanted to be these white saviors. So tracks that there’s a whole industry, coercing young women to give up their babies to fuel this.

Yup. I read adoption cost range from 20k to 60k. What if we gave a struggling new mom 60k to help raise the baby. Would she still place the baby for adoption?

You can't raise a child well on $60k, through college.

No, but 60k can put you in a place where you can get stable. Maybe better housing, food, a job, etc. Many of the woman placing kids in adoption go on to be stable and have kids of their own. Just needed more support to get there.

OP here. Precisely. And look at the fact that our government (under great donor support form adoption industry lobbyists) actually provides HUGE tax credits to adopters …far, far more generous tax credits to adopters than those provided to parents.

Policy wise, that makes sense when it comes to providing government incentives to adopt children in foster care. But those tax credits go to rich adopters who are paying for domestic infant adoptions, too!!! There is literally no societal benefit to incentivizing domestic infant adoption - there are 50-100 waiting would-be adopters for every available infant…so a blanket tax credit really only creates an incentive for those who profit from adoption. To create more supply of available infants. And how do they do that? By making it even harder for poor mothers to parent: cutting SNAP benefits. Cutting welfare, blocking funding for childcare, opposing maternity leave, blocking universal Pre-k, shortening the time period when a mother can revoke adoption consent, allowing mothers to sign adoption consent before the baby is even born, etc etc etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am adopted because my grandparents were uber Southern Baptists who couldn't abide an out of wedlock baby.

Through Ancestry.com I found them. Went to a reunion and their was more than one unwed mother there, fully embraced by the family.

Adoption is loss even in the best of situations.

Yes, I agree. Adoption is always a loss. Even if the mother died in childbirth, the child lost its birth mother, and it is ALWAYS a trauma. Always. And I'm saying this as an adoptive parent. It is a tragedy that it has to ever happen, and I know that there ar situations where it is necessary, but it needs to be understood as the loss and trauma that it always is. My daughter will always wonder why her mother abandoned her on the streets (A country in Africa ), did she love her, is she even still alive? That alone is sad and breaks my heart for her every single day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As an adoptive parent I think your comment about selling babies to the highest bidder is insulting. All situations are not the same.
Having said that I agree with your overall post. Those homes were a disgrace and I had no idea they were still happening. The way right wing evangelicals treat other humans in the name of Christianity is horrific.

Be real. It still happens. It happened to us trying to adopt.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting. I may check this out.

The fact is that most people give up their babies simply for financial reasons and if they had more financial support, they would keep them. I had a coworker several years ago was very religious and very anti-abortion. Which we weren’t close so I absolutely should not have known that in the workplace and I was younger, so I just didn’t realize how inappropriate it was that he shared so much.

Anyway, he and his wife were planning on adopting and it was just because they wanted to be these white saviors. So tracks that there’s a whole industry, coercing young women to give up their babies to fuel this.

Yup. I read adoption cost range from 20k to 60k. What if we gave a struggling new mom 60k to help raise the baby. Would she still place the baby for adoption?

You can't raise a child well on $60k, through college.

No, but 60k can put you in a place where you can get stable. Maybe better housing, food, a job, etc. Many of the woman placing kids in adoption go on to be stable and have kids of their own. Just needed more support to get there.

OP here. Precisely. And look at the fact that our government (under great donor support form adoption industry lobbyists) actually provides HUGE tax credits to adopters …far, far more generous tax credits to adopters than those provided to parents.

Policy wise, that makes sense when it comes to providing government incentives to adopt children in foster care. But those tax credits go to rich adopters who are paying for domestic infant adoptions, too!!! There is literally no societal benefit to incentivizing domestic infant adoption - there are 50-100 waiting would-be adopters for every available infant…so a blanket tax credit really only creates an incentive for those who profit from adoption. To create more supply of available infants. And how do they do that? By making it even harder for poor mothers to parent: cutting SNAP benefits. Cutting welfare, blocking funding for childcare, opposing maternity leave, blocking universal Pre-k, shortening the time period when a mother can revoke adoption consent, allowing mothers to sign adoption consent before the baby is even born, etc etc etc.

The tax credit is a scam as they increased prices with agencies and attorneys and you only get it back if you adopt