United Methodist Church split

[Anonymous]

The Methodist Church in Africa is very conservative.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So, if I'm driving by a church or looking on a website, what do I look for to tell me they are okay with LGBTQ?
Is United Methodist Church the one going conservative, or going progressive?

The rainbow flag outside many churches might be a clue on those churches’ stance…

[Anonymous]

CBS News recently reported that about 20% of current UMC congregations are departing for the new GMC. In some areas only a few congregations are leaving UMC for the GMC, but in other areas nearly all are leaving. The UMC has a concept which they call a “light house congregation”, to try to retain a presence in areas where most/all congregations are leaving the UMC for the GMC. Reportedly, a planned 2024 UMC General Conference will discuss an orderly departure program for congregations which want to leave.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, if I'm driving by a church or looking on a website, what do I look for to tell me they are okay with LGBTQ?
Is United Methodist Church the one going conservative, or going progressive?

The rainbow flag outside many churches might be a clue on those churches’ stance…

You can also look them up on the Reconciling Ministries website: https://rmnetwork.org/
Those are congregations who have been working for full participation of LGBTQ+ people in the UMC.

[Anonymous]

You can also see if there is a sign which says, "All are Welcome and All Means All." Many reconciling congregations are putting up these signs. I really hope that they follow through on the lighthouse concept. We have heard from Methodists that we know that regular individuals in congregations found themselves confronted with members who showed up to vote for exit who don't even regularly participate.

One could say that those people were waiting for a choice, but one could also say that they were never keen to be in a church family to begin with.

There are a number of Reconciling Methodists facebook pages which have emerged, but they are mostly private so they don't get dumped on. (My spouse went to a Methodist seminary, but is clergy in another denomination.)

[Anonymous]

At long last, the UMC had held a general conference for the first time in 5 years and they have finally decided that the UMC will no longer forbid the ordination or appointment of practicing homosexuals. This doesn't mean that the church must ordain them or appoint them, but that candidates who are openly gay can no longer be barred from ordination or appointment merely by virtue of their sexual orientation.

Additionally, there are no proscriptions on performing gay weddings. UMC clergy are not mandated to perform such ceremonies, but are no longer barred or sanctioned for performing such ceremonies. So gay clergy and gay marriages are allowed, but not mandated. This definitely fits in with the Methodist motto of "all are welcomed to the table".

During the period from 2019-2023, more conservative churches were allowed to leave the UMC and approximately 7600 churches, or approximately one quarter of the churches, did voluntarily leave the UMC. Some joined the new umbrella organization Global Methodist Church (GMC) and others remained independent. But the remaining congregations and organizations voted 692-51 for the above changes. That's pretty decisive for those that chose to remain within the UMC.

https://apnews.com/article/united-methodist-lgbtq-clergy-general-conference-acabe18fe22b6838e3005ad8895534fa

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Chesterbook UMC in Fairfax County reportedly is being sold and converted into a school.

I am guessing the current church members and leadership could not buy the church building and land from the UMC and no longer wanted to be a part of the UMC. Not for sure but that’s possible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A little more info (I am Methodist). The two sects are the traditional which want to bar LGBTQ+ clergy and LGBTQ+ marriages and unions vs the reconciling which allows both. Worldwide the UMC leans slightly traditionalist. Europe is about half-half. Africa is very strongly traditional. However, in the US, about 85-90% of the UMC is reconciling.

In the US, the ruling conferences decided that in the US, UMC will be reconciling. But due to the pandemic and other issues, the ruling body has not formally adopted the reconciling position and will not be meeting again until spring 2024. But many of the conservative congregations want to move on, so in 2023, several of them petitions to withdraw from the UMC and have started a new organization called the Global Methodist Church (GMC). And some of the regional conferences have given permission for local congregations to withdraw from UMC. However, the congregations cannot take their church property with them as that belongs to the national organization. Right now, congregations that withdraw will be given a certain sum of money to support their activities and services in lieu of taking church property.

Across the US, about 3500-4000 congregations have withdrawn from the UMC. A small fraction have remained independent, but the majority are joining the GMC. That's out of about 30K congregations nationwide.

This is interesting, thank you for posting. I didn't realize there were any Protestant denominations where a central body owned the church property (instead of the local congregation owning it).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A little more info (I am Methodist). The two sects are the traditional which want to bar LGBTQ+ clergy and LGBTQ+ marriages and unions vs the reconciling which allows both. Worldwide the UMC leans slightly traditionalist. Europe is about half-half. Africa is very strongly traditional. However, in the US, about 85-90% of the UMC is reconciling.

In the US, the ruling conferences decided that in the US, UMC will be reconciling. But due to the pandemic and other issues, the ruling body has not formally adopted the reconciling position and will not be meeting again until spring 2024. But many of the conservative congregations want to move on, so in 2023, several of them petitions to withdraw from the UMC and have started a new organization called the Global Methodist Church (GMC). And some of the regional conferences have given permission for local congregations to withdraw from UMC. However, the congregations cannot take their church property with them as that belongs to the national organization. Right now, congregations that withdraw will be given a certain sum of money to support their activities and services in lieu of taking church property.

Across the US, about 3500-4000 congregations have withdrawn from the UMC. A small fraction have remained independent, but the majority are joining the GMC. That's out of about 30K congregations nationwide.

This is interesting, thank you for posting. I didn't realize there were any Protestant denominations where a central body owned the church property (instead of the local congregation owning it).

Not all church property is owned by the UMC and some land that is has mortgage debt. Our congregation discussed leaving over gay marriage being banned and when we ran the numbers, it would have been cheaper to just abandon the church and build a new one than to buy it back.

[Anonymous]

It will be interesting to see how both UMC and GMC grow/shrink over time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So, if I'm driving by a church or looking on a website, what do I look for to tell me they are okay with LGBTQ?

Is United Methodist Church the one going conservative, or going progressive?

It’s the one that is exhibiting God’s command to love ALL people. Yes, they are affirming of LQBTQ as we should all be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Didn’t the same thing just happen with Presbyterians?

No.

That’s not correct. This indeed happened with the Presbyterians (more than a decade ago?). PCA is non-affirming (split from the mainline denomination for a more conservative branch). PC-USA is more liberal/ generally affirming but does leave it up to each individual church.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, if I'm driving by a church or looking on a website, what do I look for to tell me they are okay with LGBTQ?

Is United Methodist Church the one going conservative, or going progressive?

It’s the one that is exhibiting God’s command to love ALL people. Yes, they are affirming of LQBTQ as we should all be.

Church isn’t about affirmation. It’s about a relationship with God in His house.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, if I'm driving by a church or looking on a website, what do I look for to tell me they are okay with LGBTQ?

Is United Methodist Church the one going conservative, or going progressive?

It’s the one that is exhibiting God’s command to love ALL people. Yes, they are affirming of LQBTQ as we should all be.

NP. Are you asserting that Christians that oppose same sex marriage because they interpret the Bible's passages on marriage and homosexuality differently than you are violating God's command to love all people? Seems like a pretty bold statement considering that the "progressive" stance is not the norm globally and was a minority stance even in the US and Europe less than 20 years ago.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Didn’t the same thing just happen with Presbyterians?

No.

That’s not correct. This indeed happened with the Presbyterians (more than a decade ago?). PCA is non-affirming (split from the mainline denomination for a more conservative branch). PC-USA is more liberal/ generally affirming but does leave it up to each individual church.

But, it didn't "just" happen. It happened more than a decade ago.

The UMC looks pretty regressive in only allowing gay clergy now.