Anonymous wrote:Look, everyone in my neighborhood has a young dog. I have PTSD, was triggered by a recent abuse event, and I do not want to be approached right now. A large dog broke my cheek in 2019. My XH tried to kill me a couple of times. Sometimes, I just want to get a coffee. I am allowed to be a human, too.
Thank you for walking your dogs. Know that some adults don't want your dogs to come up to them. I give clear physical and hand signals that it is not okay. Make sure to understand that some people cannot handle this. It is might right to walk in the neighborhood, too.
And you don't have to have been abused to feel this way. Not sure why dog owners, dog handlers and many others with or without dogs simply can't understand that not everyone likes dogs nor wants to come up to them. "He/she is gentle/doesn't bite/doesn't this or that." Ok! We don't give a shit. This society is something else with not being able to understand how another person may feel and that they may not want to be around a dog. fing humans.
Anonymous wrote:Honestly this is something YOU have to get over. You are clearly not well mentally and while I feel sorry for your history, you do live in a society where people have pets and children, etc and there will be interactions with them. Most mentally healthy people find these interactions pleasant and fulfilling even, but clearly you do not. That is not typical and the world should not be required to adjust to your extreme hypersensitivity. Try meds, therapy or consider in patient treatment. I wish you well
I managed to own a dog for 15 years, living in an apartment in urban areas, without him touching a single person on our walk who didn't specifically ask to pet him. Most people do not find a strange dog they don't know touching them without a clear affirmative consent "pleasant and fulfilling". They find it invasive. The fact that you think that's "extreme hypersensitivity" is bizarre.
There is middle ground here. I am a dog owner. I absolutely hate off-leash dogs, and I never intentionally bring my dog to someone without them expressly inviting it. But also if you're walking on a city sidewalk, my dog might turn around to sniff you and might even boop you with his snout because there just isn't a lot of room to pass and my dog isn't perfect. The interaction won't be long because I keep his leash very short when we pass someone, but I can't guarantee perfect.
Shorten your leash or don't have a dog if you cannot walk them without it touching other people or invading their space
I grab dog’s leash so he’s right up against me. The sidewalk is like 6 feet wide or less. Two people plus a dog means we’re all coming in close proximity.
So when you’re coming into close proximity with someone who is indicating they want to avoid your dog, stop, put yourself between your dog and the other person and make your dog is secure. If shortening the leash can’t assure your control, then hold the collar, use both hands, sit on the ground with the dog in your lap while you hug it, pick it up altogether, step off the sidewalk so the other person can pass, hire a dog walker who can control the dog, take it some place where there’s no chance of it being too close to others who don’t welcome interaction, or leave the dog home altogether. The fact is that every single human has the right to use the sidewalk without being accosted by a dog. Dogs are extended the privilege of sidewalk access only when the owner’s control insures they don’t inconvenience other people.
This cannot be a serious post. You would rather I sit on the sidewalk and hug my well behaved properly leashed dog than literally step to the side, as I will do, as we pass?
The dog hating insanity has gone off the deep end.
DP here: If your dog is so well behaved then you can see someone who is approaching and move him to the other side. Or stop and put them in a sit. Or have them on a head collar so you can keep them looking at you.
If none of those work then your dog doesn’t belong on crowded sidewalks, so your options would include driving to a less crowded place or physically restraining your dog, or getting a dog trainer.
No. I have no obligation to do that. Keeping
My dog on a short leash is plenty. Both my dog and I are allowed to be there. If you hate dogs that much, then YOU move. We’re not talking about a restaurant or grocery store where dogs are prohibited. These are dog-friendly sidewalks and walking trails.
Who made them dog friendly? You don’t get to just proclaim that.
Your dog will never have as many rights as the person walking, you lunatic.
The “dogs permitted on a six-foot leash” sign, the county ordinances, the laws? Are you insane?
You still don’t get it. A six foot leash AND you have to be able to stop your dog from bothering others. You are the insane one.
“Bothering” to people on this thread means passing a person on a narrow trail or a crowded sidewalk. Dogs are allowed to do that. Dogs are allowed to accidentally brush up against people or sniff in their direction. That doesn’t make the dog “out of control” or lawless, as many on this thread have said.
Again, stop playing dumb. No one is talking about that. Dogs are one hundred percent not allowed to brush up against anyone you idiot. Your dog is allowed to be there IF he is not touching anyone. What part of that is so hard for you to understand.
And there it is. This is a batshit insane take not reflected in any laws in this country.
What laws you moron? What law allows your dog to touch me?
It’s not battery, assault, offensive touching, or failure to control a dog when a dog brushes up against you. No crimes or civil infractions have been committed. If you’d like to dispute this, please cite a statute, ordinance, or legal opinion.
Please substantiate your claim that your dog is allowed legally to touch me. You’re the one that claimed that. So let’s see which law supports that claim.
Anonymous wrote:Honestly this is something YOU have to get over. You are clearly not well mentally and while I feel sorry for your history, you do live in a society where people have pets and children, etc and there will be interactions with them. Most mentally healthy people find these interactions pleasant and fulfilling even, but clearly you do not. That is not typical and the world should not be required to adjust to your extreme hypersensitivity. Try meds, therapy or consider in patient treatment. I wish you well
I managed to own a dog for 15 years, living in an apartment in urban areas, without him touching a single person on our walk who didn't specifically ask to pet him. Most people do not find a strange dog they don't know touching them without a clear affirmative consent "pleasant and fulfilling". They find it invasive. The fact that you think that's "extreme hypersensitivity" is bizarre.
There is middle ground here. I am a dog owner. I absolutely hate off-leash dogs, and I never intentionally bring my dog to someone without them expressly inviting it. But also if you're walking on a city sidewalk, my dog might turn around to sniff you and might even boop you with his snout because there just isn't a lot of room to pass and my dog isn't perfect. The interaction won't be long because I keep his leash very short when we pass someone, but I can't guarantee perfect.
Shorten your leash or don't have a dog if you cannot walk them without it touching other people or invading their space
I grab dog’s leash so he’s right up against me. The sidewalk is like 6 feet wide or less. Two people plus a dog means we’re all coming in close proximity.
So when you’re coming into close proximity with someone who is indicating they want to avoid your dog, stop, put yourself between your dog and the other person and make your dog is secure. If shortening the leash can’t assure your control, then hold the collar, use both hands, sit on the ground with the dog in your lap while you hug it, pick it up altogether, step off the sidewalk so the other person can pass, hire a dog walker who can control the dog, take it some place where there’s no chance of it being too close to others who don’t welcome interaction, or leave the dog home altogether. The fact is that every single human has the right to use the sidewalk without being accosted by a dog. Dogs are extended the privilege of sidewalk access only when the owner’s control insures they don’t inconvenience other people.
This cannot be a serious post. You would rather I sit on the sidewalk and hug my well behaved properly leashed dog than literally step to the side, as I will do, as we pass?
The dog hating insanity has gone off the deep end.
DP here: If your dog is so well behaved then you can see someone who is approaching and move him to the other side. Or stop and put them in a sit. Or have them on a head collar so you can keep them looking at you.
If none of those work then your dog doesn’t belong on crowded sidewalks, so your options would include driving to a less crowded place or physically restraining your dog, or getting a dog trainer.
No. I have no obligation to do that. Keeping
My dog on a short leash is plenty. Both my dog and I are allowed to be there. If you hate dogs that much, then YOU move. We’re not talking about a restaurant or grocery store where dogs are prohibited. These are dog-friendly sidewalks and walking trails.
Who made them dog friendly? You don’t get to just proclaim that.
Your dog will never have as many rights as the person walking, you lunatic.
The “dogs permitted on a six-foot leash” sign, the county ordinances, the laws? Are you insane?
These are laws that allow dogs, it doesn't make the place dog-friendly. The laws are saying "you MAY bring your dog here, but only if the dog doesn't bother people."
It's like how there are lots of place kids are allowed but are not "kid-friendly" places. Restaurants and airplanes, for instance. You can bring kids there, but if your kid is running around, bothering other people, screaming, etc, then you will be asked to leave or you might be banned from the airline or. held accountable for your kids' behavior in other ways. A "kid-friendly" place is a playground, a school, a kid's birthday party, a family restaurant, Chuck-e-Cheese, etc. Places where kids can run amok and no one cares.
Honey, these places are literally listed on the county website as “dog-friendly” places.
Yes, parks where dogs are free to run around and are encouraged to congregate.
There is no such thing as a "dog friendly sidewalk." Dogs must be controlled on sidewalks. Always.
HONEY.
Are sidewalks human friendly? Humans still have to behave on sidewalks. You’re absolutely insufferable. Leashed dogs are allowed to be on sidewalks. And they’re allowed to exhibit normal, safe behavior on sidewalks.
I don't know if anyone has explained this to you yet, but dogs and humans are different.
Both are allowed on sidewalks only under certain parameters.
Nope.
Humans are entitled to sidewalks. If a sidewalk doesn't accommodate a human because they are in a wheelchair, for instance, that human can sue the city and force them to change the sidewalk to ensure the human has access to it.
Dogs are merely permitted on sidewalks if their owners follow specific rules that are designed to ensure the presence of the dog doesn't inhibit the ability of other humans to use it. If a dog can't use a sidewalk (say it's a dachshund and the sidewalk has obstacles that would make it impossible for such a short animal to use it) it doesn't matter -- that dog owner just has to figure out something else.
Again, humans and dogs are different.
Nope! Humans have to comport themselves with care and control on sidewalks. They can’t jump on people or grab people. They can’t engage in illegal conduct. They typically aren’t allowed to ride bikes on the sidewalk. They are allowed on sidewalks only so long as they’re behaving lawfully and reasonably.
We don't currently have a scourge of people jumping on or grabbing other people on sidewalks because, and say it with me this time: humans and dogs are different.
lol have you ever gone into DC
lol I live in DC and in the part where people do all kinds of obnoxious and even criminal things and yet even here, I never have people running up to me, sticking their faces in my crotch, or licking me.
Because humans and dogs are different.
People literally sleep on sidewalks and absolutely intentionally touch strangers
DP. And that is never okay. Touching people is not okay.
But the point is that PP said there was no scourge of issues with humans on sidewalks touching humans. That is wrong.
But no one is defending out-of-control people who touch other people, saying that everyone should just expect to be grabbed or pushed by strangers, and insisting that if you don't want to be touched by random strangers something us wrong with you and you're a bad person. All any reasonable person wants is for dog owners to (1) have control over their dog and (2) not allow it to approach, charge, or touch others who have not indicated that they are okay with that. As a lifelong dog owner, I think that is 100 percent reasonable; indeed, I expect it of my self and any other dog I encounter. Coming up some extreme hypothetical where your dog is pressed up against you but the sidewalk is so crowded that it might touch someone -- c'mon. I've had a dog bound up to my picnic blanket, sit on my food, and stick its face in mine, while the owners complained that I "must not be a dog person" because I shoved it off. My kid got bit by a dog that she just walked past and the owner defended the dog by saying "just he doesn't like little kids." WTF? Dog owners need to get it together.
No one on here is defending out-of-control dogs either! PP is taking the position that a dog brushing up against her on a crowded sidewalk is a violation of her rights and morally offensive. Not a single person thinks off leash or jumping dogs are okay. PP’s position is totally extreme.
Brushing past on a crowded sidewalk is incidental contact. It's clear from the OP and from other comments that no one is talking about a scenario where a dog briefly bumps into a person on a narrow sidewalk as they pass each other. For some reason some of the dog owners on the thread have assumed this is the ONLY scenario OP is talking about when it's clearly not even in the same category.
My guess is that someone very fearful of dogs would simply avoid a sidewalk so narrow that they were bumped by well behaved dogs walking by on leashes. Very few sidewalks are actually that narrow. Also when I had a dog, I almost never took my dog places like that specifically because of all the incidental contact, it can be stressful to dogs and even if it's not, it keeps them from doing the stuff dogs really like on walks (exercise, sniffing things, feeling more free and unconfined than they do at home).
OP is obviously talking about dogs who *approach* her. Meaning there is space for them to pass without interacting, but the dog wanders over to "say hello." Anyone with a dog knows what this means. It's your dog walking up to a person and expressing an interest, maybe wanting to sniff them or check out what they are eating or see if they want to play. Dogs do this a lot, some more than others, but part of training a dog is making sure he knows NOT to do this with strangers unless you've given permission. This is actually what it means to have a trained dog. And it can be critical to your own dog's safety because when you train dogs on this, you also train them not to approach other dogs without permission, and this is really important to keeping dogs safe and keeping public spaces with multiple dogs calm.
I hope most of the people intentionally misunderstanding this are trolls because it is really disturbing reading all these so-called dog lovers intentionally misunderstand a really basic requirement of dog ownership, which is that you need to keep your dog from bothering other people in public areas. This is like Puppy School 101.
Sorry, no. You can see from a page or so back that PP (others) said a dog brushing up against a person is never okay. That’s the position and belief that is insane. Obviously off-leash and jumping dogs (on or off leash) are not okay.
Those posters are saying you have an obligation to control your dog so they don't come into contact with other people. 99.9% of the time, this should be possible. In the .1% of situations where a public sidewalk is SO narrow that two people and a dog cannot pass without physically touching, I think it's unreasonable for people to get upset about brief incidental contact.
Though as a dog owner I'll note that in that very rare circumstance, an easy thing to do is to move your dog to the outside so that if there is incidental contact, it's between you and the other person instead of the dog. Teaching your dog to walk on the outside in certain circumstances is a really useful skill because it's also very helpful when passing other people with dogs, to avoid the dogs interacting unless you know the dog is safe and okay with other dogs.
A lot of dog owners just let their dogs walk down the middle of the sidewalk. A lot of dogs prefer this because it gives them maximum mobility to check out interesting smells on both sides of the sidewalk and I think also makes them feel good. And it's fine... if the sidewalk is otherwise empty. If the sidewalk is empty, your dog has to know how to move to the side, how to heel close to you, and to be okay with you moving him to your other side to facilitate passing potentially unsafe people or dogs.
The number of situations where it is absolutely impossible for a person and a dog to pass without touching is so rare that it's really disingenuous that this is what some of the dog owners on the thread have chosen to focus on. What do you do the vast majority of the time when you are totally capable of preventing your dog from touching another person? If you aren't preventing the dog from interacting, you aren't doing your job, and you don't get to blame your own laziness on the very rare instances when it's truly not possible. Grow up.
I don’t know about you, but the sidewalks in my neighborhood are 4-ft wide. Two people and a dog is tight.
So if you are approaching someone from behind you wait and pass in the street where there is more space.
If you are approaching them head on and they aren’t giving you”oh good! A dog.” vibes you put your dog on your outside side.
Anonymous wrote:I understand OP I feel the same way and some jerk in Alexandria didn't realize my posture or even care and still let his dog touch me. The dog owners around here are real pieces of work.
They exist inside the beltway in MD too. Not sure if that makes you feel better knowing they are not just in Alexandria
Anonymous wrote:Honestly this is something YOU have to get over. You are clearly not well mentally and while I feel sorry for your history, you do live in a society where people have pets and children, etc and there will be interactions with them. Most mentally healthy people find these interactions pleasant and fulfilling even, but clearly you do not. That is not typical and the world should not be required to adjust to your extreme hypersensitivity. Try meds, therapy or consider in patient treatment. I wish you well
I managed to own a dog for 15 years, living in an apartment in urban areas, without him touching a single person on our walk who didn't specifically ask to pet him. Most people do not find a strange dog they don't know touching them without a clear affirmative consent "pleasant and fulfilling". They find it invasive. The fact that you think that's "extreme hypersensitivity" is bizarre.
There is middle ground here. I am a dog owner. I absolutely hate off-leash dogs, and I never intentionally bring my dog to someone without them expressly inviting it. But also if you're walking on a city sidewalk, my dog might turn around to sniff you and might even boop you with his snout because there just isn't a lot of room to pass and my dog isn't perfect. The interaction won't be long because I keep his leash very short when we pass someone, but I can't guarantee perfect.
Shorten your leash or don't have a dog if you cannot walk them without it touching other people or invading their space
I grab dog’s leash so he’s right up against me. The sidewalk is like 6 feet wide or less. Two people plus a dog means we’re all coming in close proximity.
So when you’re coming into close proximity with someone who is indicating they want to avoid your dog, stop, put yourself between your dog and the other person and make your dog is secure. If shortening the leash can’t assure your control, then hold the collar, use both hands, sit on the ground with the dog in your lap while you hug it, pick it up altogether, step off the sidewalk so the other person can pass, hire a dog walker who can control the dog, take it some place where there’s no chance of it being too close to others who don’t welcome interaction, or leave the dog home altogether. The fact is that every single human has the right to use the sidewalk without being accosted by a dog. Dogs are extended the privilege of sidewalk access only when the owner’s control insures they don’t inconvenience other people.
This cannot be a serious post. You would rather I sit on the sidewalk and hug my well behaved properly leashed dog than literally step to the side, as I will do, as we pass?
The dog hating insanity has gone off the deep end.
DP here: If your dog is so well behaved then you can see someone who is approaching and move him to the other side. Or stop and put them in a sit. Or have them on a head collar so you can keep them looking at you.
If none of those work then your dog doesn’t belong on crowded sidewalks, so your options would include driving to a less crowded place or physically restraining your dog, or getting a dog trainer.
No. I have no obligation to do that. Keeping
My dog on a short leash is plenty. Both my dog and I are allowed to be there. If you hate dogs that much, then YOU move. We’re not talking about a restaurant or grocery store where dogs are prohibited. These are dog-friendly sidewalks and walking trails.
Who made them dog friendly? You don’t get to just proclaim that.
Your dog will never have as many rights as the person walking, you lunatic.
The “dogs permitted on a six-foot leash” sign, the county ordinances, the laws? Are you insane?
These are laws that allow dogs, it doesn't make the place dog-friendly. The laws are saying "you MAY bring your dog here, but only if the dog doesn't bother people."
It's like how there are lots of place kids are allowed but are not "kid-friendly" places. Restaurants and airplanes, for instance. You can bring kids there, but if your kid is running around, bothering other people, screaming, etc, then you will be asked to leave or you might be banned from the airline or. held accountable for your kids' behavior in other ways. A "kid-friendly" place is a playground, a school, a kid's birthday party, a family restaurant, Chuck-e-Cheese, etc. Places where kids can run amok and no one cares.
Honey, these places are literally listed on the county website as “dog-friendly” places.
Yes, parks where dogs are free to run around and are encouraged to congregate.
There is no such thing as a "dog friendly sidewalk." Dogs must be controlled on sidewalks. Always.
HONEY.
Are sidewalks human friendly? Humans still have to behave on sidewalks. You’re absolutely insufferable. Leashed dogs are allowed to be on sidewalks. And they’re allowed to exhibit normal, safe behavior on sidewalks.
I don't know if anyone has explained this to you yet, but dogs and humans are different.
Both are allowed on sidewalks only under certain parameters.
Nope.
Humans are entitled to sidewalks. If a sidewalk doesn't accommodate a human because they are in a wheelchair, for instance, that human can sue the city and force them to change the sidewalk to ensure the human has access to it.
Dogs are merely permitted on sidewalks if their owners follow specific rules that are designed to ensure the presence of the dog doesn't inhibit the ability of other humans to use it. If a dog can't use a sidewalk (say it's a dachshund and the sidewalk has obstacles that would make it impossible for such a short animal to use it) it doesn't matter -- that dog owner just has to figure out something else.
Again, humans and dogs are different.
Nope! Humans have to comport themselves with care and control on sidewalks. They can’t jump on people or grab people. They can’t engage in illegal conduct. They typically aren’t allowed to ride bikes on the sidewalk. They are allowed on sidewalks only so long as they’re behaving lawfully and reasonably.
We don't currently have a scourge of people jumping on or grabbing other people on sidewalks because, and say it with me this time: humans and dogs are different.
lol have you ever gone into DC
lol I live in DC and in the part where people do all kinds of obnoxious and even criminal things and yet even here, I never have people running up to me, sticking their faces in my crotch, or licking me.
Because humans and dogs are different.
People literally sleep on sidewalks and absolutely intentionally touch strangers
A person sleeping on a sidewalk doesn't actually harm me. I don't love it but as long as they aren't obstructing the sidewalk, it doesn't impact me.
I've lived in DC for 25 years and have never been intentionally touched by a stranger.
If a person walked up to me and licked me or stuck their face in my crotch, I would call the cops and press charges and they would be arrested. Why should a dog be allowed to do something that would be a criminal act by a human?
Because, as you keep noting, dogs and humans are different.
All jokes aside, dogs don’t have “intent,” and evidently you have been unintentionally touched by humans on the sidewalk. And aren’t you the one who said it is NEVER OKAY for a dog to brush up against a human?
The fact that dogs don't have intent and don't understand that not everyone is okay being near them is explicitly why dogs are required to be leashed and humans are not.
The point of the leash is for you to force your dog to do things that humans are expected to do without a leash, like not sniff and lick everyone walking past. If you just leash your dog but continue to let them do these things that would get a human arrested, then you aren't actually complying with the leash law, which is why leash laws almost always including phrasing like "controlled by a leash" of a certain length. The law doesn't just require your dog to have a leash, they require the owner to be actively using the leash to keep their dog away from other people.
Because human beings are capable of intent and can understand stuff like assault laws or even just social norms, we don't leash them. But if a human violates these rules they can be arrested and/or publicly shunned and shamed, whereas a dog cannot be because a dog isn't a person.
The problems is that many dog owners think leashes are for decoration and that dogs should be permitted to bother anyone they want as long as they aren't biting or attacking, and that's explicitly not what the law says. The law says you need to control your dog via a leash (which means pulling it away from anyone they approach unless that person has explicitly given permission to be approached).
Thus how a dog owner comes to believe a sidewalk is a "dog friendly" space simply because their dog isn't banned from being there, and the dog should be permitted to wander and approach people at will. It's a fundamental misunderstanding of the law and why it exists.
Once again being pedantic and moving the goal posts. Nobody said it’s okay for an owner to let a dog jump on or lick a stranger. But you said it’s not okay for a dog to brush up against a person accidentally. That’s not true and it’s a gross and unreasonable overreaction to a normal part of life that comes with being in public spaces that are dog-friendly (yes, there is no difference between being “dog-allowed” and “dog-friendly” because it’s still not okay for a dog to jump on or lick someone in the overwhelming majority of dog-friendly spaces).
If your point is that owners need to use the leash the stop their dogs from jumping up on strangers, then we’re in heated agreement. If your point is that people with dogs need to jump off the sidewalk and give a three-foot berth to anyone passing them because they might take extreme offense to the dog’s fur rubbing up against them, then you’re absolutely insane.
I never said that. The number of circumstances where a dog owner couldn't prevent their dog from brushing against people incidentally without decent training and leash control is so infinitesimal that I dont' even think it's worth addressing.
The vast majority of the time, if your dog is bumping into other people, it's because you aren't sufficiently controlling them in a public space.
You’re not the person who said: “Dogs are one hundred percent not allowed to brush up against anyone you idiot.”?
Anonymous wrote:Honestly this is something YOU have to get over. You are clearly not well mentally and while I feel sorry for your history, you do live in a society where people have pets and children, etc and there will be interactions with them. Most mentally healthy people find these interactions pleasant and fulfilling even, but clearly you do not. That is not typical and the world should not be required to adjust to your extreme hypersensitivity. Try meds, therapy or consider in patient treatment. I wish you well
It is very TYPiCAL. YOU are the one needing therapy, meds etc etc that this board/USA rushes to prescribe
Anonymous wrote:Honestly this is something YOU have to get over. You are clearly not well mentally and while I feel sorry for your history, you do live in a society where people have pets and children, etc and there will be interactions with them. Most mentally healthy people find these interactions pleasant and fulfilling even, but clearly you do not. That is not typical and the world should not be required to adjust to your extreme hypersensitivity. Try meds, therapy or consider in patient treatment. I wish you well
I managed to own a dog for 15 years, living in an apartment in urban areas, without him touching a single person on our walk who didn't specifically ask to pet him. Most people do not find a strange dog they don't know touching them without a clear affirmative consent "pleasant and fulfilling". They find it invasive. The fact that you think that's "extreme hypersensitivity" is bizarre.
There is middle ground here. I am a dog owner. I absolutely hate off-leash dogs, and I never intentionally bring my dog to someone without them expressly inviting it. But also if you're walking on a city sidewalk, my dog might turn around to sniff you and might even boop you with his snout because there just isn't a lot of room to pass and my dog isn't perfect. The interaction won't be long because I keep his leash very short when we pass someone, but I can't guarantee perfect.
Shorten your leash or don't have a dog if you cannot walk them without it touching other people or invading their space
I grab dog’s leash so he’s right up against me. The sidewalk is like 6 feet wide or less. Two people plus a dog means we’re all coming in close proximity.
So when you’re coming into close proximity with someone who is indicating they want to avoid your dog, stop, put yourself between your dog and the other person and make your dog is secure. If shortening the leash can’t assure your control, then hold the collar, use both hands, sit on the ground with the dog in your lap while you hug it, pick it up altogether, step off the sidewalk so the other person can pass, hire a dog walker who can control the dog, take it some place where there’s no chance of it being too close to others who don’t welcome interaction, or leave the dog home altogether. The fact is that every single human has the right to use the sidewalk without being accosted by a dog. Dogs are extended the privilege of sidewalk access only when the owner’s control insures they don’t inconvenience other people.
This cannot be a serious post. You would rather I sit on the sidewalk and hug my well behaved properly leashed dog than literally step to the side, as I will do, as we pass?
The dog hating insanity has gone off the deep end.
DP here: If your dog is so well behaved then you can see someone who is approaching and move him to the other side. Or stop and put them in a sit. Or have them on a head collar so you can keep them looking at you.
If none of those work then your dog doesn’t belong on crowded sidewalks, so your options would include driving to a less crowded place or physically restraining your dog, or getting a dog trainer.
No. I have no obligation to do that. Keeping
My dog on a short leash is plenty. Both my dog and I are allowed to be there. If you hate dogs that much, then YOU move. We’re not talking about a restaurant or grocery store where dogs are prohibited. These are dog-friendly sidewalks and walking trails.
Who made them dog friendly? You don’t get to just proclaim that.
Your dog will never have as many rights as the person walking, you lunatic.
The “dogs permitted on a six-foot leash” sign, the county ordinances, the laws? Are you insane?
You still don’t get it. A six foot leash AND you have to be able to stop your dog from bothering others. You are the insane one.
“Bothering” to people on this thread means passing a person on a narrow trail or a crowded sidewalk. Dogs are allowed to do that. Dogs are allowed to accidentally brush up against people or sniff in their direction. That doesn’t make the dog “out of control” or lawless, as many on this thread have said.
Again, stop playing dumb. No one is talking about that. Dogs are one hundred percent not allowed to brush up against anyone you idiot. Your dog is allowed to be there IF he is not touching anyone. What part of that is so hard for you to understand.
And there it is. This is a batshit insane take not reflected in any laws in this country.
What laws you moron? What law allows your dog to touch me?
It’s not battery, assault, offensive touching, or failure to control a dog when a dog brushes up against you. No crimes or civil infractions have been committed. If you’d like to dispute this, please cite a statute, ordinance, or legal opinion.
Please substantiate your claim that your dog is allowed legally to touch me. You’re the one that claimed that. So let’s see which law supports that claim.
Everything is legal that isn’t illegal. So unless you find something saying it can’t be done (statue, ordinance, common law, legal opinion), then it’s allowed.
Anonymous wrote:Honestly this is something YOU have to get over. You are clearly not well mentally and while I feel sorry for your history, you do live in a society where people have pets and children, etc and there will be interactions with them. Most mentally healthy people find these interactions pleasant and fulfilling even, but clearly you do not. That is not typical and the world should not be required to adjust to your extreme hypersensitivity. Try meds, therapy or consider in patient treatment. I wish you well
I managed to own a dog for 15 years, living in an apartment in urban areas, without him touching a single person on our walk who didn't specifically ask to pet him. Most people do not find a strange dog they don't know touching them without a clear affirmative consent "pleasant and fulfilling". They find it invasive. The fact that you think that's "extreme hypersensitivity" is bizarre.
There is middle ground here. I am a dog owner. I absolutely hate off-leash dogs, and I never intentionally bring my dog to someone without them expressly inviting it. But also if you're walking on a city sidewalk, my dog might turn around to sniff you and might even boop you with his snout because there just isn't a lot of room to pass and my dog isn't perfect. The interaction won't be long because I keep his leash very short when we pass someone, but I can't guarantee perfect.
Shorten your leash or don't have a dog if you cannot walk them without it touching other people or invading their space
I grab dog’s leash so he’s right up against me. The sidewalk is like 6 feet wide or less. Two people plus a dog means we’re all coming in close proximity.
So when you’re coming into close proximity with someone who is indicating they want to avoid your dog, stop, put yourself between your dog and the other person and make your dog is secure. If shortening the leash can’t assure your control, then hold the collar, use both hands, sit on the ground with the dog in your lap while you hug it, pick it up altogether, step off the sidewalk so the other person can pass, hire a dog walker who can control the dog, take it some place where there’s no chance of it being too close to others who don’t welcome interaction, or leave the dog home altogether. The fact is that every single human has the right to use the sidewalk without being accosted by a dog. Dogs are extended the privilege of sidewalk access only when the owner’s control insures they don’t inconvenience other people.
This cannot be a serious post. You would rather I sit on the sidewalk and hug my well behaved properly leashed dog than literally step to the side, as I will do, as we pass?
The dog hating insanity has gone off the deep end.
DP here: If your dog is so well behaved then you can see someone who is approaching and move him to the other side. Or stop and put them in a sit. Or have them on a head collar so you can keep them looking at you.
If none of those work then your dog doesn’t belong on crowded sidewalks, so your options would include driving to a less crowded place or physically restraining your dog, or getting a dog trainer.
No. I have no obligation to do that. Keeping
My dog on a short leash is plenty. Both my dog and I are allowed to be there. If you hate dogs that much, then YOU move. We’re not talking about a restaurant or grocery store where dogs are prohibited. These are dog-friendly sidewalks and walking trails.
Who made them dog friendly? You don’t get to just proclaim that.
Your dog will never have as many rights as the person walking, you lunatic.
The “dogs permitted on a six-foot leash” sign, the county ordinances, the laws? Are you insane?
These are laws that allow dogs, it doesn't make the place dog-friendly. The laws are saying "you MAY bring your dog here, but only if the dog doesn't bother people."
It's like how there are lots of place kids are allowed but are not "kid-friendly" places. Restaurants and airplanes, for instance. You can bring kids there, but if your kid is running around, bothering other people, screaming, etc, then you will be asked to leave or you might be banned from the airline or. held accountable for your kids' behavior in other ways. A "kid-friendly" place is a playground, a school, a kid's birthday party, a family restaurant, Chuck-e-Cheese, etc. Places where kids can run amok and no one cares.
Honey, these places are literally listed on the county website as “dog-friendly” places.
Yes, parks where dogs are free to run around and are encouraged to congregate.
There is no such thing as a "dog friendly sidewalk." Dogs must be controlled on sidewalks. Always.
HONEY.
Are sidewalks human friendly? Humans still have to behave on sidewalks. You’re absolutely insufferable. Leashed dogs are allowed to be on sidewalks. And they’re allowed to exhibit normal, safe behavior on sidewalks.
I don't know if anyone has explained this to you yet, but dogs and humans are different.
Both are allowed on sidewalks only under certain parameters.
Nope.
Humans are entitled to sidewalks. If a sidewalk doesn't accommodate a human because they are in a wheelchair, for instance, that human can sue the city and force them to change the sidewalk to ensure the human has access to it.
Dogs are merely permitted on sidewalks if their owners follow specific rules that are designed to ensure the presence of the dog doesn't inhibit the ability of other humans to use it. If a dog can't use a sidewalk (say it's a dachshund and the sidewalk has obstacles that would make it impossible for such a short animal to use it) it doesn't matter -- that dog owner just has to figure out something else.
Again, humans and dogs are different.
Nope! Humans have to comport themselves with care and control on sidewalks. They can’t jump on people or grab people. They can’t engage in illegal conduct. They typically aren’t allowed to ride bikes on the sidewalk. They are allowed on sidewalks only so long as they’re behaving lawfully and reasonably.
We don't currently have a scourge of people jumping on or grabbing other people on sidewalks because, and say it with me this time: humans and dogs are different.
lol have you ever gone into DC
lol I live in DC and in the part where people do all kinds of obnoxious and even criminal things and yet even here, I never have people running up to me, sticking their faces in my crotch, or licking me.
Because humans and dogs are different.
People literally sleep on sidewalks and absolutely intentionally touch strangers
A person sleeping on a sidewalk doesn't actually harm me. I don't love it but as long as they aren't obstructing the sidewalk, it doesn't impact me.
I've lived in DC for 25 years and have never been intentionally touched by a stranger.
If a person walked up to me and licked me or stuck their face in my crotch, I would call the cops and press charges and they would be arrested. Why should a dog be allowed to do something that would be a criminal act by a human?
Because, as you keep noting, dogs and humans are different.
All jokes aside, dogs don’t have “intent,” and evidently you have been unintentionally touched by humans on the sidewalk. And aren’t you the one who said it is NEVER OKAY for a dog to brush up against a human?
The fact that dogs don't have intent and don't understand that not everyone is okay being near them is explicitly why dogs are required to be leashed and humans are not.
The point of the leash is for you to force your dog to do things that humans are expected to do without a leash, like not sniff and lick everyone walking past. If you just leash your dog but continue to let them do these things that would get a human arrested, then you aren't actually complying with the leash law, which is why leash laws almost always including phrasing like "controlled by a leash" of a certain length. The law doesn't just require your dog to have a leash, they require the owner to be actively using the leash to keep their dog away from other people.
Because human beings are capable of intent and can understand stuff like assault laws or even just social norms, we don't leash them. But if a human violates these rules they can be arrested and/or publicly shunned and shamed, whereas a dog cannot be because a dog isn't a person.
The problems is that many dog owners think leashes are for decoration and that dogs should be permitted to bother anyone they want as long as they aren't biting or attacking, and that's explicitly not what the law says. The law says you need to control your dog via a leash (which means pulling it away from anyone they approach unless that person has explicitly given permission to be approached).
Thus how a dog owner comes to believe a sidewalk is a "dog friendly" space simply because their dog isn't banned from being there, and the dog should be permitted to wander and approach people at will. It's a fundamental misunderstanding of the law and why it exists.
Once again being pedantic and moving the goal posts. Nobody said it’s okay for an owner to let a dog jump on or lick a stranger. But you said it’s not okay for a dog to brush up against a person accidentally. That’s not true and it’s a gross and unreasonable overreaction to a normal part of life that comes with being in public spaces that are dog-friendly (yes, there is no difference between being “dog-allowed” and “dog-friendly” because it’s still not okay for a dog to jump on or lick someone in the overwhelming majority of dog-friendly spaces).
If your point is that owners need to use the leash the stop their dogs from jumping up on strangers, then we’re in heated agreement. If your point is that people with dogs need to jump off the sidewalk and give a three-foot berth to anyone passing them because they might take extreme offense to the dog’s fur rubbing up against them, then you’re absolutely insane.
I never said that. The number of circumstances where a dog owner couldn't prevent their dog from brushing against people incidentally without decent training and leash control is so infinitesimal that I dont' even think it's worth addressing.
The vast majority of the time, if your dog is bumping into other people, it's because you aren't sufficiently controlling them in a public space.
You’re not the person who said: “Dogs are one hundred percent not allowed to brush up against anyone you idiot.”?
I’m going to start touching dog owners when they allow their dog to touch me without my consent. A little pet on the head is fine right?
Anonymous wrote:Honestly this is something YOU have to get over. You are clearly not well mentally and while I feel sorry for your history, you do live in a society where people have pets and children, etc and there will be interactions with them. Most mentally healthy people find these interactions pleasant and fulfilling even, but clearly you do not. That is not typical and the world should not be required to adjust to your extreme hypersensitivity. Try meds, therapy or consider in patient treatment. I wish you well
I managed to own a dog for 15 years, living in an apartment in urban areas, without him touching a single person on our walk who didn't specifically ask to pet him. Most people do not find a strange dog they don't know touching them without a clear affirmative consent "pleasant and fulfilling". They find it invasive. The fact that you think that's "extreme hypersensitivity" is bizarre.
There is middle ground here. I am a dog owner. I absolutely hate off-leash dogs, and I never intentionally bring my dog to someone without them expressly inviting it. But also if you're walking on a city sidewalk, my dog might turn around to sniff you and might even boop you with his snout because there just isn't a lot of room to pass and my dog isn't perfect. The interaction won't be long because I keep his leash very short when we pass someone, but I can't guarantee perfect.
Shorten your leash or don't have a dog if you cannot walk them without it touching other people or invading their space
I grab dog’s leash so he’s right up against me. The sidewalk is like 6 feet wide or less. Two people plus a dog means we’re all coming in close proximity.
So when you’re coming into close proximity with someone who is indicating they want to avoid your dog, stop, put yourself between your dog and the other person and make your dog is secure. If shortening the leash can’t assure your control, then hold the collar, use both hands, sit on the ground with the dog in your lap while you hug it, pick it up altogether, step off the sidewalk so the other person can pass, hire a dog walker who can control the dog, take it some place where there’s no chance of it being too close to others who don’t welcome interaction, or leave the dog home altogether. The fact is that every single human has the right to use the sidewalk without being accosted by a dog. Dogs are extended the privilege of sidewalk access only when the owner’s control insures they don’t inconvenience other people.
This cannot be a serious post. You would rather I sit on the sidewalk and hug my well behaved properly leashed dog than literally step to the side, as I will do, as we pass?
The dog hating insanity has gone off the deep end.
DP here: If your dog is so well behaved then you can see someone who is approaching and move him to the other side. Or stop and put them in a sit. Or have them on a head collar so you can keep them looking at you.
If none of those work then your dog doesn’t belong on crowded sidewalks, so your options would include driving to a less crowded place or physically restraining your dog, or getting a dog trainer.
No. I have no obligation to do that. Keeping
My dog on a short leash is plenty. Both my dog and I are allowed to be there. If you hate dogs that much, then YOU move. We’re not talking about a restaurant or grocery store where dogs are prohibited. These are dog-friendly sidewalks and walking trails.
Who made them dog friendly? You don’t get to just proclaim that.
Your dog will never have as many rights as the person walking, you lunatic.
The “dogs permitted on a six-foot leash” sign, the county ordinances, the laws? Are you insane?
These are laws that allow dogs, it doesn't make the place dog-friendly. The laws are saying "you MAY bring your dog here, but only if the dog doesn't bother people."
It's like how there are lots of place kids are allowed but are not "kid-friendly" places. Restaurants and airplanes, for instance. You can bring kids there, but if your kid is running around, bothering other people, screaming, etc, then you will be asked to leave or you might be banned from the airline or. held accountable for your kids' behavior in other ways. A "kid-friendly" place is a playground, a school, a kid's birthday party, a family restaurant, Chuck-e-Cheese, etc. Places where kids can run amok and no one cares.
Honey, these places are literally listed on the county website as “dog-friendly” places.
Yes, parks where dogs are free to run around and are encouraged to congregate.
There is no such thing as a "dog friendly sidewalk." Dogs must be controlled on sidewalks. Always.
HONEY.
Are sidewalks human friendly? Humans still have to behave on sidewalks. You’re absolutely insufferable. Leashed dogs are allowed to be on sidewalks. And they’re allowed to exhibit normal, safe behavior on sidewalks.
I don't know if anyone has explained this to you yet, but dogs and humans are different.
Both are allowed on sidewalks only under certain parameters.
Nope.
Humans are entitled to sidewalks. If a sidewalk doesn't accommodate a human because they are in a wheelchair, for instance, that human can sue the city and force them to change the sidewalk to ensure the human has access to it.
Dogs are merely permitted on sidewalks if their owners follow specific rules that are designed to ensure the presence of the dog doesn't inhibit the ability of other humans to use it. If a dog can't use a sidewalk (say it's a dachshund and the sidewalk has obstacles that would make it impossible for such a short animal to use it) it doesn't matter -- that dog owner just has to figure out something else.
Again, humans and dogs are different.
Nope! Humans have to comport themselves with care and control on sidewalks. They can’t jump on people or grab people. They can’t engage in illegal conduct. They typically aren’t allowed to ride bikes on the sidewalk. They are allowed on sidewalks only so long as they’re behaving lawfully and reasonably.
We don't currently have a scourge of people jumping on or grabbing other people on sidewalks because, and say it with me this time: humans and dogs are different.
lol have you ever gone into DC
lol I live in DC and in the part where people do all kinds of obnoxious and even criminal things and yet even here, I never have people running up to me, sticking their faces in my crotch, or licking me.
Because humans and dogs are different.
People literally sleep on sidewalks and absolutely intentionally touch strangers
A person sleeping on a sidewalk doesn't actually harm me. I don't love it but as long as they aren't obstructing the sidewalk, it doesn't impact me.
I've lived in DC for 25 years and have never been intentionally touched by a stranger.
If a person walked up to me and licked me or stuck their face in my crotch, I would call the cops and press charges and they would be arrested. Why should a dog be allowed to do something that would be a criminal act by a human?
Because, as you keep noting, dogs and humans are different.
All jokes aside, dogs don’t have “intent,” and evidently you have been unintentionally touched by humans on the sidewalk. And aren’t you the one who said it is NEVER OKAY for a dog to brush up against a human?
The fact that dogs don't have intent and don't understand that not everyone is okay being near them is explicitly why dogs are required to be leashed and humans are not.
The point of the leash is for you to force your dog to do things that humans are expected to do without a leash, like not sniff and lick everyone walking past. If you just leash your dog but continue to let them do these things that would get a human arrested, then you aren't actually complying with the leash law, which is why leash laws almost always including phrasing like "controlled by a leash" of a certain length. The law doesn't just require your dog to have a leash, they require the owner to be actively using the leash to keep their dog away from other people.
Because human beings are capable of intent and can understand stuff like assault laws or even just social norms, we don't leash them. But if a human violates these rules they can be arrested and/or publicly shunned and shamed, whereas a dog cannot be because a dog isn't a person.
The problems is that many dog owners think leashes are for decoration and that dogs should be permitted to bother anyone they want as long as they aren't biting or attacking, and that's explicitly not what the law says. The law says you need to control your dog via a leash (which means pulling it away from anyone they approach unless that person has explicitly given permission to be approached).
Thus how a dog owner comes to believe a sidewalk is a "dog friendly" space simply because their dog isn't banned from being there, and the dog should be permitted to wander and approach people at will. It's a fundamental misunderstanding of the law and why it exists.
Once again being pedantic and moving the goal posts. Nobody said it’s okay for an owner to let a dog jump on or lick a stranger. But you said it’s not okay for a dog to brush up against a person accidentally. That’s not true and it’s a gross and unreasonable overreaction to a normal part of life that comes with being in public spaces that are dog-friendly (yes, there is no difference between being “dog-allowed” and “dog-friendly” because it’s still not okay for a dog to jump on or lick someone in the overwhelming majority of dog-friendly spaces).
If your point is that owners need to use the leash the stop their dogs from jumping up on strangers, then we’re in heated agreement. If your point is that people with dogs need to jump off the sidewalk and give a three-foot berth to anyone passing them because they might take extreme offense to the dog’s fur rubbing up against them, then you’re absolutely insane.
I never said that. The number of circumstances where a dog owner couldn't prevent their dog from brushing against people incidentally without decent training and leash control is so infinitesimal that I dont' even think it's worth addressing.
The vast majority of the time, if your dog is bumping into other people, it's because you aren't sufficiently controlling them in a public space.
You’re not the person who said: “Dogs are one hundred percent not allowed to brush up against anyone you idiot.”?
I’m going to start touching dog owners when they allow their dog to touch me without my consent. A little pet on the head is fine right?
It’s a common occurrence to brush up against people accidentally at restaurants, bars, airports, public transit, concerts, and *gasp* sidewalks. So yeah, that’d be fine.
Anonymous wrote:Honestly this is something YOU have to get over. You are clearly not well mentally and while I feel sorry for your history, you do live in a society where people have pets and children, etc and there will be interactions with them. Most mentally healthy people find these interactions pleasant and fulfilling even, but clearly you do not. That is not typical and the world should not be required to adjust to your extreme hypersensitivity. Try meds, therapy or consider in patient treatment. I wish you well
I managed to own a dog for 15 years, living in an apartment in urban areas, without him touching a single person on our walk who didn't specifically ask to pet him. Most people do not find a strange dog they don't know touching them without a clear affirmative consent "pleasant and fulfilling". They find it invasive. The fact that you think that's "extreme hypersensitivity" is bizarre.
There is middle ground here. I am a dog owner. I absolutely hate off-leash dogs, and I never intentionally bring my dog to someone without them expressly inviting it. But also if you're walking on a city sidewalk, my dog might turn around to sniff you and might even boop you with his snout because there just isn't a lot of room to pass and my dog isn't perfect. The interaction won't be long because I keep his leash very short when we pass someone, but I can't guarantee perfect.
Shorten your leash or don't have a dog if you cannot walk them without it touching other people or invading their space
I grab dog’s leash so he’s right up against me. The sidewalk is like 6 feet wide or less. Two people plus a dog means we’re all coming in close proximity.
So when you’re coming into close proximity with someone who is indicating they want to avoid your dog, stop, put yourself between your dog and the other person and make your dog is secure. If shortening the leash can’t assure your control, then hold the collar, use both hands, sit on the ground with the dog in your lap while you hug it, pick it up altogether, step off the sidewalk so the other person can pass, hire a dog walker who can control the dog, take it some place where there’s no chance of it being too close to others who don’t welcome interaction, or leave the dog home altogether. The fact is that every single human has the right to use the sidewalk without being accosted by a dog. Dogs are extended the privilege of sidewalk access only when the owner’s control insures they don’t inconvenience other people.
This cannot be a serious post. You would rather I sit on the sidewalk and hug my well behaved properly leashed dog than literally step to the side, as I will do, as we pass?
The dog hating insanity has gone off the deep end.
DP here: If your dog is so well behaved then you can see someone who is approaching and move him to the other side. Or stop and put them in a sit. Or have them on a head collar so you can keep them looking at you.
If none of those work then your dog doesn’t belong on crowded sidewalks, so your options would include driving to a less crowded place or physically restraining your dog, or getting a dog trainer.
No. I have no obligation to do that. Keeping
My dog on a short leash is plenty. Both my dog and I are allowed to be there. If you hate dogs that much, then YOU move. We’re not talking about a restaurant or grocery store where dogs are prohibited. These are dog-friendly sidewalks and walking trails.
Who made them dog friendly? You don’t get to just proclaim that.
Your dog will never have as many rights as the person walking, you lunatic.
The “dogs permitted on a six-foot leash” sign, the county ordinances, the laws? Are you insane?
You still don’t get it. A six foot leash AND you have to be able to stop your dog from bothering others. You are the insane one.
“Bothering” to people on this thread means passing a person on a narrow trail or a crowded sidewalk. Dogs are allowed to do that. Dogs are allowed to accidentally brush up against people or sniff in their direction. That doesn’t make the dog “out of control” or lawless, as many on this thread have said.
Again, stop playing dumb. No one is talking about that. Dogs are one hundred percent not allowed to brush up against anyone you idiot. Your dog is allowed to be there IF he is not touching anyone. What part of that is so hard for you to understand.
And there it is. This is a batshit insane take not reflected in any laws in this country.
What laws you moron? What law allows your dog to touch me?
It’s not battery, assault, offensive touching, or failure to control a dog when a dog brushes up against you. No crimes or civil infractions have been committed. If you’d like to dispute this, please cite a statute, ordinance, or legal opinion.
Please substantiate your claim that your dog is allowed legally to touch me. You’re the one that claimed that. So let’s see which law supports that claim.
Everything is legal that isn’t illegal. So unless you find something saying it can’t be done (statue, ordinance, common law, legal opinion), then it’s allowed.
You sound like an idiot. No, your dog is not allowed to touch me without my consent. That’s why your dog needs to be pepper spayed next time he does it. Either that, or I get to put my hands on you.
Anonymous wrote:Honestly this is something YOU have to get over. You are clearly not well mentally and while I feel sorry for your history, you do live in a society where people have pets and children, etc and there will be interactions with them. Most mentally healthy people find these interactions pleasant and fulfilling even, but clearly you do not. That is not typical and the world should not be required to adjust to your extreme hypersensitivity. Try meds, therapy or consider in patient treatment. I wish you well
I managed to own a dog for 15 years, living in an apartment in urban areas, without him touching a single person on our walk who didn't specifically ask to pet him. Most people do not find a strange dog they don't know touching them without a clear affirmative consent "pleasant and fulfilling". They find it invasive. The fact that you think that's "extreme hypersensitivity" is bizarre.
There is middle ground here. I am a dog owner. I absolutely hate off-leash dogs, and I never intentionally bring my dog to someone without them expressly inviting it. But also if you're walking on a city sidewalk, my dog might turn around to sniff you and might even boop you with his snout because there just isn't a lot of room to pass and my dog isn't perfect. The interaction won't be long because I keep his leash very short when we pass someone, but I can't guarantee perfect.
Shorten your leash or don't have a dog if you cannot walk them without it touching other people or invading their space
I grab dog’s leash so he’s right up against me. The sidewalk is like 6 feet wide or less. Two people plus a dog means we’re all coming in close proximity.
So when you’re coming into close proximity with someone who is indicating they want to avoid your dog, stop, put yourself between your dog and the other person and make your dog is secure. If shortening the leash can’t assure your control, then hold the collar, use both hands, sit on the ground with the dog in your lap while you hug it, pick it up altogether, step off the sidewalk so the other person can pass, hire a dog walker who can control the dog, take it some place where there’s no chance of it being too close to others who don’t welcome interaction, or leave the dog home altogether. The fact is that every single human has the right to use the sidewalk without being accosted by a dog. Dogs are extended the privilege of sidewalk access only when the owner’s control insures they don’t inconvenience other people.
This cannot be a serious post. You would rather I sit on the sidewalk and hug my well behaved properly leashed dog than literally step to the side, as I will do, as we pass?
The dog hating insanity has gone off the deep end.
DP here: If your dog is so well behaved then you can see someone who is approaching and move him to the other side. Or stop and put them in a sit. Or have them on a head collar so you can keep them looking at you.
If none of those work then your dog doesn’t belong on crowded sidewalks, so your options would include driving to a less crowded place or physically restraining your dog, or getting a dog trainer.
No. I have no obligation to do that. Keeping
My dog on a short leash is plenty. Both my dog and I are allowed to be there. If you hate dogs that much, then YOU move. We’re not talking about a restaurant or grocery store where dogs are prohibited. These are dog-friendly sidewalks and walking trails.
Who made them dog friendly? You don’t get to just proclaim that.
Your dog will never have as many rights as the person walking, you lunatic.
The “dogs permitted on a six-foot leash” sign, the county ordinances, the laws? Are you insane?
These are laws that allow dogs, it doesn't make the place dog-friendly. The laws are saying "you MAY bring your dog here, but only if the dog doesn't bother people."
It's like how there are lots of place kids are allowed but are not "kid-friendly" places. Restaurants and airplanes, for instance. You can bring kids there, but if your kid is running around, bothering other people, screaming, etc, then you will be asked to leave or you might be banned from the airline or. held accountable for your kids' behavior in other ways. A "kid-friendly" place is a playground, a school, a kid's birthday party, a family restaurant, Chuck-e-Cheese, etc. Places where kids can run amok and no one cares.
Honey, these places are literally listed on the county website as “dog-friendly” places.
Yes, parks where dogs are free to run around and are encouraged to congregate.
There is no such thing as a "dog friendly sidewalk." Dogs must be controlled on sidewalks. Always.
HONEY.
Are sidewalks human friendly? Humans still have to behave on sidewalks. You’re absolutely insufferable. Leashed dogs are allowed to be on sidewalks. And they’re allowed to exhibit normal, safe behavior on sidewalks.
I don't know if anyone has explained this to you yet, but dogs and humans are different.
Both are allowed on sidewalks only under certain parameters.
Nope.
Humans are entitled to sidewalks. If a sidewalk doesn't accommodate a human because they are in a wheelchair, for instance, that human can sue the city and force them to change the sidewalk to ensure the human has access to it.
Dogs are merely permitted on sidewalks if their owners follow specific rules that are designed to ensure the presence of the dog doesn't inhibit the ability of other humans to use it. If a dog can't use a sidewalk (say it's a dachshund and the sidewalk has obstacles that would make it impossible for such a short animal to use it) it doesn't matter -- that dog owner just has to figure out something else.
Again, humans and dogs are different.
Nope! Humans have to comport themselves with care and control on sidewalks. They can’t jump on people or grab people. They can’t engage in illegal conduct. They typically aren’t allowed to ride bikes on the sidewalk. They are allowed on sidewalks only so long as they’re behaving lawfully and reasonably.
We don't currently have a scourge of people jumping on or grabbing other people on sidewalks because, and say it with me this time: humans and dogs are different.
lol have you ever gone into DC
lol I live in DC and in the part where people do all kinds of obnoxious and even criminal things and yet even here, I never have people running up to me, sticking their faces in my crotch, or licking me.
Because humans and dogs are different.
People literally sleep on sidewalks and absolutely intentionally touch strangers
A person sleeping on a sidewalk doesn't actually harm me. I don't love it but as long as they aren't obstructing the sidewalk, it doesn't impact me.
I've lived in DC for 25 years and have never been intentionally touched by a stranger.
If a person walked up to me and licked me or stuck their face in my crotch, I would call the cops and press charges and they would be arrested. Why should a dog be allowed to do something that would be a criminal act by a human?
Because, as you keep noting, dogs and humans are different.
All jokes aside, dogs don’t have “intent,” and evidently you have been unintentionally touched by humans on the sidewalk. And aren’t you the one who said it is NEVER OKAY for a dog to brush up against a human?
The fact that dogs don't have intent and don't understand that not everyone is okay being near them is explicitly why dogs are required to be leashed and humans are not.
The point of the leash is for you to force your dog to do things that humans are expected to do without a leash, like not sniff and lick everyone walking past. If you just leash your dog but continue to let them do these things that would get a human arrested, then you aren't actually complying with the leash law, which is why leash laws almost always including phrasing like "controlled by a leash" of a certain length. The law doesn't just require your dog to have a leash, they require the owner to be actively using the leash to keep their dog away from other people.
Because human beings are capable of intent and can understand stuff like assault laws or even just social norms, we don't leash them. But if a human violates these rules they can be arrested and/or publicly shunned and shamed, whereas a dog cannot be because a dog isn't a person.
The problems is that many dog owners think leashes are for decoration and that dogs should be permitted to bother anyone they want as long as they aren't biting or attacking, and that's explicitly not what the law says. The law says you need to control your dog via a leash (which means pulling it away from anyone they approach unless that person has explicitly given permission to be approached).
Thus how a dog owner comes to believe a sidewalk is a "dog friendly" space simply because their dog isn't banned from being there, and the dog should be permitted to wander and approach people at will. It's a fundamental misunderstanding of the law and why it exists.
Once again being pedantic and moving the goal posts. Nobody said it’s okay for an owner to let a dog jump on or lick a stranger. But you said it’s not okay for a dog to brush up against a person accidentally. That’s not true and it’s a gross and unreasonable overreaction to a normal part of life that comes with being in public spaces that are dog-friendly (yes, there is no difference between being “dog-allowed” and “dog-friendly” because it’s still not okay for a dog to jump on or lick someone in the overwhelming majority of dog-friendly spaces).
If your point is that owners need to use the leash the stop their dogs from jumping up on strangers, then we’re in heated agreement. If your point is that people with dogs need to jump off the sidewalk and give a three-foot berth to anyone passing them because they might take extreme offense to the dog’s fur rubbing up against them, then you’re absolutely insane.
I never said that. The number of circumstances where a dog owner couldn't prevent their dog from brushing against people incidentally without decent training and leash control is so infinitesimal that I dont' even think it's worth addressing.
The vast majority of the time, if your dog is bumping into other people, it's because you aren't sufficiently controlling them in a public space.
You’re not the person who said: “Dogs are one hundred percent not allowed to brush up against anyone you idiot.”?
I’m going to start touching dog owners when they allow their dog to touch me without my consent. A little pet on the head is fine right?
It’s a common occurrence to brush up against people accidentally at restaurants, bars, airports, public transit, concerts, and *gasp* sidewalks. So yeah, that’d be fine.
When you idiots try to compare dog to people you sound unhinged. You know that right?
Anonymous wrote:Honestly this is something YOU have to get over. You are clearly not well mentally and while I feel sorry for your history, you do live in a society where people have pets and children, etc and there will be interactions with them. Most mentally healthy people find these interactions pleasant and fulfilling even, but clearly you do not. That is not typical and the world should not be required to adjust to your extreme hypersensitivity. Try meds, therapy or consider in patient treatment. I wish you well
I managed to own a dog for 15 years, living in an apartment in urban areas, without him touching a single person on our walk who didn't specifically ask to pet him. Most people do not find a strange dog they don't know touching them without a clear affirmative consent "pleasant and fulfilling". They find it invasive. The fact that you think that's "extreme hypersensitivity" is bizarre.
There is middle ground here. I am a dog owner. I absolutely hate off-leash dogs, and I never intentionally bring my dog to someone without them expressly inviting it. But also if you're walking on a city sidewalk, my dog might turn around to sniff you and might even boop you with his snout because there just isn't a lot of room to pass and my dog isn't perfect. The interaction won't be long because I keep his leash very short when we pass someone, but I can't guarantee perfect.
Shorten your leash or don't have a dog if you cannot walk them without it touching other people or invading their space
I grab dog’s leash so he’s right up against me. The sidewalk is like 6 feet wide or less. Two people plus a dog means we’re all coming in close proximity.
So when you’re coming into close proximity with someone who is indicating they want to avoid your dog, stop, put yourself between your dog and the other person and make your dog is secure. If shortening the leash can’t assure your control, then hold the collar, use both hands, sit on the ground with the dog in your lap while you hug it, pick it up altogether, step off the sidewalk so the other person can pass, hire a dog walker who can control the dog, take it some place where there’s no chance of it being too close to others who don’t welcome interaction, or leave the dog home altogether. The fact is that every single human has the right to use the sidewalk without being accosted by a dog. Dogs are extended the privilege of sidewalk access only when the owner’s control insures they don’t inconvenience other people.
This cannot be a serious post. You would rather I sit on the sidewalk and hug my well behaved properly leashed dog than literally step to the side, as I will do, as we pass?
The dog hating insanity has gone off the deep end.
DP here: If your dog is so well behaved then you can see someone who is approaching and move him to the other side. Or stop and put them in a sit. Or have them on a head collar so you can keep them looking at you.
If none of those work then your dog doesn’t belong on crowded sidewalks, so your options would include driving to a less crowded place or physically restraining your dog, or getting a dog trainer.
No. I have no obligation to do that. Keeping
My dog on a short leash is plenty. Both my dog and I are allowed to be there. If you hate dogs that much, then YOU move. We’re not talking about a restaurant or grocery store where dogs are prohibited. These are dog-friendly sidewalks and walking trails.
Who made them dog friendly? You don’t get to just proclaim that.
Your dog will never have as many rights as the person walking, you lunatic.
The “dogs permitted on a six-foot leash” sign, the county ordinances, the laws? Are you insane?
You still don’t get it. A six foot leash AND you have to be able to stop your dog from bothering others. You are the insane one.
“Bothering” to people on this thread means passing a person on a narrow trail or a crowded sidewalk. Dogs are allowed to do that. Dogs are allowed to accidentally brush up against people or sniff in their direction. That doesn’t make the dog “out of control” or lawless, as many on this thread have said.
Again, stop playing dumb. No one is talking about that. Dogs are one hundred percent not allowed to brush up against anyone you idiot. Your dog is allowed to be there IF he is not touching anyone. What part of that is so hard for you to understand.
And there it is. This is a batshit insane take not reflected in any laws in this country.
What laws you moron? What law allows your dog to touch me?
It’s not battery, assault, offensive touching, or failure to control a dog when a dog brushes up against you. No crimes or civil infractions have been committed. If you’d like to dispute this, please cite a statute, ordinance, or legal opinion.
Please substantiate your claim that your dog is allowed legally to touch me. You’re the one that claimed that. So let’s see which law supports that claim.
Everything is legal that isn’t illegal. So unless you find something saying it can’t be done (statue, ordinance, common law, legal opinion), then it’s allowed.
You sound like an idiot. No, your dog is not allowed to touch me without my consent. That’s why your dog needs to be pepper spayed next time he does it. Either that, or I get to put my hands on you.
And that’s why I mace everyone who bumps into me in public. It’s a great strategy and totally legal!
Anonymous wrote:Honestly this is something YOU have to get over. You are clearly not well mentally and while I feel sorry for your history, you do live in a society where people have pets and children, etc and there will be interactions with them. Most mentally healthy people find these interactions pleasant and fulfilling even, but clearly you do not. That is not typical and the world should not be required to adjust to your extreme hypersensitivity. Try meds, therapy or consider in patient treatment. I wish you well
I managed to own a dog for 15 years, living in an apartment in urban areas, without him touching a single person on our walk who didn't specifically ask to pet him. Most people do not find a strange dog they don't know touching them without a clear affirmative consent "pleasant and fulfilling". They find it invasive. The fact that you think that's "extreme hypersensitivity" is bizarre.
There is middle ground here. I am a dog owner. I absolutely hate off-leash dogs, and I never intentionally bring my dog to someone without them expressly inviting it. But also if you're walking on a city sidewalk, my dog might turn around to sniff you and might even boop you with his snout because there just isn't a lot of room to pass and my dog isn't perfect. The interaction won't be long because I keep his leash very short when we pass someone, but I can't guarantee perfect.
Shorten your leash or don't have a dog if you cannot walk them without it touching other people or invading their space
I grab dog’s leash so he’s right up against me. The sidewalk is like 6 feet wide or less. Two people plus a dog means we’re all coming in close proximity.
So when you’re coming into close proximity with someone who is indicating they want to avoid your dog, stop, put yourself between your dog and the other person and make your dog is secure. If shortening the leash can’t assure your control, then hold the collar, use both hands, sit on the ground with the dog in your lap while you hug it, pick it up altogether, step off the sidewalk so the other person can pass, hire a dog walker who can control the dog, take it some place where there’s no chance of it being too close to others who don’t welcome interaction, or leave the dog home altogether. The fact is that every single human has the right to use the sidewalk without being accosted by a dog. Dogs are extended the privilege of sidewalk access only when the owner’s control insures they don’t inconvenience other people.
This cannot be a serious post. You would rather I sit on the sidewalk and hug my well behaved properly leashed dog than literally step to the side, as I will do, as we pass?
The dog hating insanity has gone off the deep end.
DP here: If your dog is so well behaved then you can see someone who is approaching and move him to the other side. Or stop and put them in a sit. Or have them on a head collar so you can keep them looking at you.
If none of those work then your dog doesn’t belong on crowded sidewalks, so your options would include driving to a less crowded place or physically restraining your dog, or getting a dog trainer.
No. I have no obligation to do that. Keeping
My dog on a short leash is plenty. Both my dog and I are allowed to be there. If you hate dogs that much, then YOU move. We’re not talking about a restaurant or grocery store where dogs are prohibited. These are dog-friendly sidewalks and walking trails.
Who made them dog friendly? You don’t get to just proclaim that.
Your dog will never have as many rights as the person walking, you lunatic.
The “dogs permitted on a six-foot leash” sign, the county ordinances, the laws? Are you insane?
These are laws that allow dogs, it doesn't make the place dog-friendly. The laws are saying "you MAY bring your dog here, but only if the dog doesn't bother people."
It's like how there are lots of place kids are allowed but are not "kid-friendly" places. Restaurants and airplanes, for instance. You can bring kids there, but if your kid is running around, bothering other people, screaming, etc, then you will be asked to leave or you might be banned from the airline or. held accountable for your kids' behavior in other ways. A "kid-friendly" place is a playground, a school, a kid's birthday party, a family restaurant, Chuck-e-Cheese, etc. Places where kids can run amok and no one cares.
Honey, these places are literally listed on the county website as “dog-friendly” places.
Yes, parks where dogs are free to run around and are encouraged to congregate.
There is no such thing as a "dog friendly sidewalk." Dogs must be controlled on sidewalks. Always.
HONEY.
Are sidewalks human friendly? Humans still have to behave on sidewalks. You’re absolutely insufferable. Leashed dogs are allowed to be on sidewalks. And they’re allowed to exhibit normal, safe behavior on sidewalks.
I don't know if anyone has explained this to you yet, but dogs and humans are different.
Both are allowed on sidewalks only under certain parameters.
Nope.
Humans are entitled to sidewalks. If a sidewalk doesn't accommodate a human because they are in a wheelchair, for instance, that human can sue the city and force them to change the sidewalk to ensure the human has access to it.
Dogs are merely permitted on sidewalks if their owners follow specific rules that are designed to ensure the presence of the dog doesn't inhibit the ability of other humans to use it. If a dog can't use a sidewalk (say it's a dachshund and the sidewalk has obstacles that would make it impossible for such a short animal to use it) it doesn't matter -- that dog owner just has to figure out something else.
Again, humans and dogs are different.
Nope! Humans have to comport themselves with care and control on sidewalks. They can’t jump on people or grab people. They can’t engage in illegal conduct. They typically aren’t allowed to ride bikes on the sidewalk. They are allowed on sidewalks only so long as they’re behaving lawfully and reasonably.
We don't currently have a scourge of people jumping on or grabbing other people on sidewalks because, and say it with me this time: humans and dogs are different.
lol have you ever gone into DC
lol I live in DC and in the part where people do all kinds of obnoxious and even criminal things and yet even here, I never have people running up to me, sticking their faces in my crotch, or licking me.
Because humans and dogs are different.
People literally sleep on sidewalks and absolutely intentionally touch strangers
A person sleeping on a sidewalk doesn't actually harm me. I don't love it but as long as they aren't obstructing the sidewalk, it doesn't impact me.
I've lived in DC for 25 years and have never been intentionally touched by a stranger.
If a person walked up to me and licked me or stuck their face in my crotch, I would call the cops and press charges and they would be arrested. Why should a dog be allowed to do something that would be a criminal act by a human?
Because, as you keep noting, dogs and humans are different.
All jokes aside, dogs don’t have “intent,” and evidently you have been unintentionally touched by humans on the sidewalk. And aren’t you the one who said it is NEVER OKAY for a dog to brush up against a human?
The fact that dogs don't have intent and don't understand that not everyone is okay being near them is explicitly why dogs are required to be leashed and humans are not.
The point of the leash is for you to force your dog to do things that humans are expected to do without a leash, like not sniff and lick everyone walking past. If you just leash your dog but continue to let them do these things that would get a human arrested, then you aren't actually complying with the leash law, which is why leash laws almost always including phrasing like "controlled by a leash" of a certain length. The law doesn't just require your dog to have a leash, they require the owner to be actively using the leash to keep their dog away from other people.
Because human beings are capable of intent and can understand stuff like assault laws or even just social norms, we don't leash them. But if a human violates these rules they can be arrested and/or publicly shunned and shamed, whereas a dog cannot be because a dog isn't a person.
The problems is that many dog owners think leashes are for decoration and that dogs should be permitted to bother anyone they want as long as they aren't biting or attacking, and that's explicitly not what the law says. The law says you need to control your dog via a leash (which means pulling it away from anyone they approach unless that person has explicitly given permission to be approached).
Thus how a dog owner comes to believe a sidewalk is a "dog friendly" space simply because their dog isn't banned from being there, and the dog should be permitted to wander and approach people at will. It's a fundamental misunderstanding of the law and why it exists.
Once again being pedantic and moving the goal posts. Nobody said it’s okay for an owner to let a dog jump on or lick a stranger. But you said it’s not okay for a dog to brush up against a person accidentally. That’s not true and it’s a gross and unreasonable overreaction to a normal part of life that comes with being in public spaces that are dog-friendly (yes, there is no difference between being “dog-allowed” and “dog-friendly” because it’s still not okay for a dog to jump on or lick someone in the overwhelming majority of dog-friendly spaces).
If your point is that owners need to use the leash the stop their dogs from jumping up on strangers, then we’re in heated agreement. If your point is that people with dogs need to jump off the sidewalk and give a three-foot berth to anyone passing them because they might take extreme offense to the dog’s fur rubbing up against them, then you’re absolutely insane.
I never said that. The number of circumstances where a dog owner couldn't prevent their dog from brushing against people incidentally without decent training and leash control is so infinitesimal that I dont' even think it's worth addressing.
The vast majority of the time, if your dog is bumping into other people, it's because you aren't sufficiently controlling them in a public space.
You’re not the person who said: “Dogs are one hundred percent not allowed to brush up against anyone you idiot.”?
I’m going to start touching dog owners when they allow their dog to touch me without my consent. A little pet on the head is fine right?
It’s a common occurrence to brush up against people accidentally at restaurants, bars, airports, public transit, concerts, and *gasp* sidewalks. So yeah, that’d be fine.
When you idiots try to compare dog to people you sound unhinged. You know that right?
No one is walking me on a leash you moron.
Accidental, incidental touching in a crowded place is not offensive by a reasonable person standard. The law is not going to recognize your deep offense. Acknowledge your belief is idiosyncratic and the world doesn’t revolve around you.
Anonymous wrote:Honestly this is something YOU have to get over. You are clearly not well mentally and while I feel sorry for your history, you do live in a society where people have pets and children, etc and there will be interactions with them. Most mentally healthy people find these interactions pleasant and fulfilling even, but clearly you do not. That is not typical and the world should not be required to adjust to your extreme hypersensitivity. Try meds, therapy or consider in patient treatment. I wish you well
I managed to own a dog for 15 years, living in an apartment in urban areas, without him touching a single person on our walk who didn't specifically ask to pet him. Most people do not find a strange dog they don't know touching them without a clear affirmative consent "pleasant and fulfilling". They find it invasive. The fact that you think that's "extreme hypersensitivity" is bizarre.
There is middle ground here. I am a dog owner. I absolutely hate off-leash dogs, and I never intentionally bring my dog to someone without them expressly inviting it. But also if you're walking on a city sidewalk, my dog might turn around to sniff you and might even boop you with his snout because there just isn't a lot of room to pass and my dog isn't perfect. The interaction won't be long because I keep his leash very short when we pass someone, but I can't guarantee perfect.
Shorten your leash or don't have a dog if you cannot walk them without it touching other people or invading their space
I grab dog’s leash so he’s right up against me. The sidewalk is like 6 feet wide or less. Two people plus a dog means we’re all coming in close proximity.
So when you’re coming into close proximity with someone who is indicating they want to avoid your dog, stop, put yourself between your dog and the other person and make your dog is secure. If shortening the leash can’t assure your control, then hold the collar, use both hands, sit on the ground with the dog in your lap while you hug it, pick it up altogether, step off the sidewalk so the other person can pass, hire a dog walker who can control the dog, take it some place where there’s no chance of it being too close to others who don’t welcome interaction, or leave the dog home altogether. The fact is that every single human has the right to use the sidewalk without being accosted by a dog. Dogs are extended the privilege of sidewalk access only when the owner’s control insures they don’t inconvenience other people.
This cannot be a serious post. You would rather I sit on the sidewalk and hug my well behaved properly leashed dog than literally step to the side, as I will do, as we pass?
The dog hating insanity has gone off the deep end.
DP here: If your dog is so well behaved then you can see someone who is approaching and move him to the other side. Or stop and put them in a sit. Or have them on a head collar so you can keep them looking at you.
If none of those work then your dog doesn’t belong on crowded sidewalks, so your options would include driving to a less crowded place or physically restraining your dog, or getting a dog trainer.
No. I have no obligation to do that. Keeping
My dog on a short leash is plenty. Both my dog and I are allowed to be there. If you hate dogs that much, then YOU move. We’re not talking about a restaurant or grocery store where dogs are prohibited. These are dog-friendly sidewalks and walking trails.
Who made them dog friendly? You don’t get to just proclaim that.
Your dog will never have as many rights as the person walking, you lunatic.
The “dogs permitted on a six-foot leash” sign, the county ordinances, the laws? Are you insane?
You still don’t get it. A six foot leash AND you have to be able to stop your dog from bothering others. You are the insane one.
“Bothering” to people on this thread means passing a person on a narrow trail or a crowded sidewalk. Dogs are allowed to do that. Dogs are allowed to accidentally brush up against people or sniff in their direction. That doesn’t make the dog “out of control” or lawless, as many on this thread have said.
Again, stop playing dumb. No one is talking about that. Dogs are one hundred percent not allowed to brush up against anyone you idiot. Your dog is allowed to be there IF he is not touching anyone. What part of that is so hard for you to understand.
And there it is. This is a batshit insane take not reflected in any laws in this country.
What laws you moron? What law allows your dog to touch me?
It’s not battery, assault, offensive touching, or failure to control a dog when a dog brushes up against you. No crimes or civil infractions have been committed. If you’d like to dispute this, please cite a statute, ordinance, or legal opinion.
Please substantiate your claim that your dog is allowed legally to touch me. You’re the one that claimed that. So let’s see which law supports that claim.
Everything is legal that isn’t illegal. So unless you find something saying it can’t be done (statue, ordinance, common law, legal opinion), then it’s allowed.
You sound like an idiot. No, your dog is not allowed to touch me without my consent. That’s why your dog needs to be pepper spayed next time he does it. Either that, or I get to put my hands on you.
And that’s why I mace everyone who bumps into me in public. It’s a great strategy and totally legal!
Dogs are not people. No, no person is touching me without my consent either.
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