Bilingual Kids in Language Immersion ES Programs, Which Programs Have Many & Strive to Attract Them?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

(And what do your ILs think of white people? I know lots of white people at YY.)

My ILs are Old Country. They think a Chinese school has many Chinese-speaking kids and an ethnic administror or two, with the rest at least speaking Chinese. Othewise, it's not a Chinese school. We just walked in off the street, we don't know all that much, but it wasn't a welcoming experience. Our friends who left tell us that, without an ethnic administrator, bilingual families aren't always sure who to turn to in a jam. A sea of white and black parents is going to be a hard sell to my wife. We can't be alone among DC Chinese in this regard (or future DC Chinese anyway). If that's helpful info for you guys, great, if not, no worries. We're looking at the other language immersion schools, and moving IB for Oyster.

For sure you're not alone but you're not the rule either. Some Chinese parents like the school for their kids and others don't. No school is right for everyone. I went to an open house for my inbounds JKLM and didn't like it even though most parents I know there love it. But, I am not telling them they should change the school to suit my needs and interests.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You could have simply told your wife that the charter board does not allow dual lotteries so it's irrelevant what anyone thinks, pro or con.

You sound like you have issue with 1/2 the kids being AA at YY. DC is 1/2 AA with a ~1% Chinese population. I think it makes more sense to cater the open houses to the majority of kids and parents who live here rather than put resources into a very small population with little chance of getting in (like everyone else).

My wife is a lawyer who read the charter law before we visited. She just couldn't believe that nobody spoke Chinese at an info night at a Chinese school. OK, so put the resources into attracting non-Chinese parents, but don't claim that you long for dual immersion in the same breath. How many resources would need to go into an info night in Cantonese? Parent volunteers on the outreach committee could hold it at a local Chinese restaurant willing to host for free. We have checked the YY web site many times hoping for such an event, so my IL's could attend, but haven't seen one advertised.

I'm wasting my time. Dual immersion is not what you really want. You don't want the bad (bad, bad...) Chinese attitudes that would come with it. Maybe you need Chinese ILs to get it

[Anonymous]

In the broader context of this discussion, I don't think it's in a nation's interest nor is it a policy imperative to provide taxpayer funded "expat" education. (That is what tax breaks for diplomats and support to foreign embassies etc. are supposed to fund.) I know of no other country (except maybe Germany) that has a policy to do so. What is in our national and certainly DC interest is to make sure a broad swath of students are world-culturally literate and able to converse in or at least understand other than English. Language immersion offerings are one avenue among many to accomplish this. One can argue that this brings about some need to attract native speakers into these programs but I'm actually not all that convinced this is so. As the previous statement of a presumably Chinese expat exemplifies and my own expat experience tells me, the needs and reasons to pursue an immersion school environment may be wholly different, no better, no worse, but different.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

For sure you're not alone but you're not the rule either. Some Chinese parents like the school for their kids and others don't. No school is right for everyone. I went to an open house for my inbounds JKLM and didn't like it even though most parents I know there love it. But, I am not telling them they should change the school to suit my needs and interests.

I'm talking about bilingualism, not being Chinese per se. Most of my Chinese-American pals and associates speak better Spanish than Chinese: their parents didn't both much with dialects at home. You'd be hard pressed to find ordinary bilingual Chinese immigrants raising their kids fully bilingual who would like YY as is. There are a few, but fewer than you think. Attracting more bilingual Chinese would mean changing things. You can do it, and have more, or not do it, and not have more. It's a choice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Dual immersion is not what you really want. You don't want the bad (bad, bad...) Chinese attitudes that would come with it. Maybe you need Chinese ILs to get it

Please tell me you're not saying that dual immersion is incompatible with racial equality.

My parents grew up in the segregated South, and it was a given in their childhoods that people who weren't white were inferior. My mom harbors racist attitudes to this day, but has the sense to hide them except around family.

And yet I was somehow able to retain the many good things they taught me while still being comfortable sending my child to a plurality AA school with an AA principal.

I pray that you're sheltering your children from your ILs racist views, and won't prevent them from experiencing all that DC has to offer just because we're a place where AA culture predominates.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You could have simply told your wife that the charter board does not allow dual lotteries so it's irrelevant what anyone thinks, pro or con.

You sound like you have issue with 1/2 the kids being AA at YY. DC is 1/2 AA with a ~1% Chinese population. I think it makes more sense to cater the open houses to the majority of kids and parents who live here rather than put resources into a very small population with little chance of getting in (like everyone else).

My wife is a lawyer who read the charter law before we visited. She just couldn't believe that nobody spoke Chinese at an info night at a Chinese school. OK, so put the resources into attracting non-Chinese parents, but don't claim that you long for dual immersion in the same breath. How many resources would need to go into an info night in Cantonese? Parent volunteers on the outreach committee could hold it at a local Chinese restaurant willing to host for free. We have checked the YY web site many times hoping for such an event, so my IL's could attend, but haven't seen one advertised.

I'm wasting my time. Dual immersion is not what you really want. You don't want the bad (bad, bad...) Chinese attitudes that would come with it. Maybe you need Chinese ILs to get it

I think it's us who are wasting our time. I am a YY parent and would love dual immersion. This is not a "claim" this is a fact. However, I do not make the decisions about where the school puts its resources and if they don't put them into attracting Chinese families how exactly does that invalidate what I feel? But you're right about one thing--I don't think anyone wants a bunch of racist bastards at the school. Happily I think the Chinese families at YY parents nights ("real" or "unreal") might take issue with that educated guess of yours.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I'm talking about bilingualism, not being Chinese per se. Most of my Chinese-American pals and associates speak better Spanish than Chinese: their parents didn't both much with dialects at home. You'd be hard pressed to find ordinary bilingual Chinese immigrants raising their kids fully bilingual who would like YY as is. There are a few, but fewer than you think. Attracting more bilingual Chinese would mean changing things. You can do it, and have more, or not do it, and not have more. It's a choice.

Actually, I think you're talking about biculturalism. And the "bi" is key--Americans at YY can't give up their American-ness. While I want my kids to be as comfortable as possible speaking Mandarin and being amidst Chinese culture, I also won't let them adopt racist attitudes, no matter where they come from.

[Anonymous]

I am a YY parent and would love dual immersion. This is not a "claim" this is a fact. However, I do not make the decisions about where the school puts its resources and if they don't put them into attracting Chinese families how exactly does that invalidate what I feel? But you're right about one thing--I don't think anyone wants a bunch of racist bastards at the school. Happily I think the Chinese families at YY parents nights ("real" or "unreal") might take issue with that educated guess of yours.

Unlilkely. According to our good friends who left YY, almost all the Chinese families who sign on are highly assimilated, highly educated, high-SES families, unlike my ILs and other ordinary immigrants, the sorts likely to make the effort to raise fully bilingual children. My wife is doing it mainly because my IL's English remains weak, decades into their US lives. It's an open secret that ordinary Chinese immigrants tend to have fairly negative views of AAs, and try to teach their children to think similarly (but often fail). Maybe you would indeed love dual immersion, but it would mean being around many ordinary immigrants, with all that entails. An AA friend with children in a strong dual-immersion program in the Bay area, where more than half the kids speak a dialect at home, tells me that she's had to learn to roll with the punches where the immigrant parents are concerned. They make all sorts of statements that shocked her initially. She's come around to the view that they're not as racist as they are insular. They commonly socialize only within their ethnic communities, and reject American civic-mindedness in a big way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

(And what do your ILs think of white people? I know lots of white people at YY.)

My ILs are Old Country. They think a Chinese school has many Chinese-speaking kids and an ethnic administror or two, with the rest at least speaking Chinese. Othewise, it's not a Chinese school. We just walked in off the street, we don't know all that much, but it wasn't a welcoming experience. Our friends who left tell us that, without an ethnic administrator, bilingual families aren't always sure who to turn to in a jam. A sea of white and black parents is going to be a hard sell to my wife. We can't be alone among DC Chinese in this regard (or future DC Chinese anyway). If that's helpful info for you guys, great, if not, no worries. We're looking at the other language immersion schools, and moving IB for Oyster.

Okay, but what the heck does that have to do with your IL's perception of AAs attending college. Or was it your subtle way of saying that because YY has so many AA students, the school could not possibly be educating them to to attend college. I just don't understand the reference, and more than one person have asked you to explain the relevancy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I know those threads and as I recall if anyone argued against more bilingual families they did so in response to the rising hostilities. Likewise with the lottery--it was along the lines of "if you guys are what we'd get with more bilingual families and two lotteries then no thank you." It was never about dual immersion. If I'm wrong I'm happy to admit it--just share the links.

It sounded like it was all about dual immersion, with no way to build it other than two lotteries. Hopeless cause in this lifetime, from the sounds of it. Traditional Chinese aren't always a lot of fun to be around, but dual immersion isn't an option without them. When my IL's heard that the principal was black and doesn't speak Chinese, they said, no wonder there aren't "real" Chinese families (who speak Chinese) at that school. Ugly yes, but a standard reaction for Chinese immigrants. My educated guess is that most of those who attend a YY parents night privately have this reaction. So YY parents don't want the racist bastards around, yet talk about how they'd love dual immersion...





So, now your ILs and Chinese immigrants are all racists bastards, according to you of course. Well that explains your earlier comment with no relevance. I think you can add yourself to that chorus. Also, there are immigrant Chinese at YY. Cliche coming so watch out. But, my son has a friend who is a first generation Chinese American. The parents own one of those corner food stores that many people are familiar. The kids spend playdates and birthday parties together. I am sure that my child is glad that his friend's immigrant parents are not blinded in ignorance because of the color of a person's skin.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I am a YY parent and would love dual immersion. This is not a "claim" this is a fact. However, I do not make the decisions about where the school puts its resources and if they don't put them into attracting Chinese families how exactly does that invalidate what I feel? But you're right about one thing--I don't think anyone wants a bunch of racist bastards at the school. Happily I think the Chinese families at YY parents nights ("real" or "unreal") might take issue with that educated guess of yours.

Unlilkely. According to our good friends who left YY, almost all the Chinese families who sign on are highly assimilated, highly educated, high-SES families, unlike my ILs and other ordinary immigrants, the sorts likely to make the effort to raise fully bilingual children. My wife is doing it mainly because my IL's English remains weak, decades into their US lives. It's an open secret that ordinary Chinese immigrants tend to have fairly negative views of AAs, and try to teach their children to think similarly (but often fail). Maybe you would indeed love dual immersion, but it would mean being around many ordinary immigrants, with all that entails. An AA friend with children in a strong dual-immersion program in the Bay area, where more than half the kids speak a dialect at home, tells me that she's had to learn to roll with the punches where the immigrant parents are concerned. They make all sorts of statements that shocked her initially. She's come around to the view that they're not as racist as they are insular. They commonly socialize only within their ethnic communities, and reject American civic-mindedness in a big way.





I attended a public magnet school in another major city, and it was racially and ethnically (and economically) incredibly diverse. I'm AA, and I know for a fact that the parents of many of my friends had feelings about AAs as well as other minorities. But it is exactly because we as children were all in school together, went over to each other's houses for after school and overnights, ate each other's foods, and visited each other's parents' jobs from the Chinese restaurant to the Korean-owned jewelry store to the Jewish investment banker's office (these are real examples of my friends' parents real jobs) and my mom's office at the YMCA. We visited each other, learned tolerance (for the most part), and for all those reasons, if I get my kid a slot at YY I will absolutely welcome immigrant families, dialect-speaking families, and support whatever ways there are to increase the population of bilingual kids in the school within charter policies (and advocate for changes in thsoe policies).

It's nothing new for groups in the US to be prejudice against AAs, and for there to even be prejudice within the AA community between different groups of AAs. The most direct, effective, lasting way to combat that is for real people to get to know other real people. Every person here generalizing about YY parents is being ridiculous. I am not a parent there, but I am an adult and I have yet to ever be in ANY group of adults where one can generalize and be right about everyone in the group. I'm confident that YY, like every other school in DC, has parents with diverse views, even among gruops with the same race/ethnicity and class.

[Anonymous]

I think it makes more sense to cater the open houses to the majority of kids and parents who live here rather than put resources into a very small population with little chance of getting in (like everyone else).

Lamb parent. It's a Chinese immersion school but nobody speaks the language at an open house and parents defend this? Reaching out to the local population speaking the language is seen as a waste of time and money. And YY parents wonder why they don't attract many bilingual families. Just incredible how clueless all this is.

The Spanish immersion schools always run their open houses in both languages, and have native speakers at their table at the charter fair. I've been to open houses at four this year.

[Anonymous]

How many bilingual Mandarin speakers live in DC?

How many billingual Spanish speakers?

This constant comparison between YY and Spanish immersion schools is ridiculous when DC has around a >1% Chinese population and <9% Hispanic population. Also, I 'll bet you most of the Chinese are adults not school age children while the Hispanic population has more school age kids than adults.

[Anonymous]

Should read <1% Chinese and >9% Hispanic

[Anonymous]

It has been reported on this thread that LAMB parents are quite happy and accepting of LAMB's cheating at the beginning of the process, admission. During the tenure of your children attendance at Lamb how much cheating is acceptable. Is cheating on the DC mandatory test acceptable, as long as the means justify the end. Where do you draw the line of happy as a lamb with LAMB cheating.