Real talk about the city’s economy, federal buildings leases, and telework impacts

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
+1. People who live in DC often take a very narrow-minded view of the suburbs and think that they're just full of people who would live in DC but are priced out. The truth is that many of us are totally happy in the suburbs, and we really only come into DC for work and don't find anything about DC to be particularly enjoyable. I'm sure this is true of other major cities as well; not everyone has bought into the idea that you can't have an exciting and fulfilling life if you don't live in a city.

Suburbanites are parasites on host cities. Film at 11.

New poster and late to this party but...I'm a suburbanite, neither I nor my spouse has ever worked in DC, yet we go into the city frequently and spend money there. We have no desire to live in the city but we absolutely go to the museums, a lot of theater, concerts, exhibits and other events. Yes, most of the museums are free, but we pay for plenty of other outings, meals, parking, etc. So: Are we just "parasites" or are we coming into your city and contribuing to its coffers? I'd bet we spend considerably more in DC than office workers who live in 'burbs like us, work in DC, but leave each night and don't spend any money on entertainment in the city at all. But if you want to call us suburban parasites, go right ahead.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
New poster and late to this party but...I'm a suburbanite, neither I nor my spouse has ever worked in DC, yet we go into the city frequently and spend money there. We have no desire to live in the city but we absolutely go to the museums, a lot of theater, concerts, exhibits and other events. Yes, most of the museums are free, but we pay for plenty of other outings, meals, parking, etc. So: Are we just "parasites" or are we coming into your city and contribuing to its coffers? I'd bet we spend considerably more in DC than office workers who live in 'burbs like us, work in DC, but leave each night and don't spend any money on entertainment in the city at all. But if you want to call us suburban parasites, go right ahead.

Yes, that is correct. You might want to brush up on your land use history. Suburbs didn't just magically appear outside of city centers from thin air. They were created to allow certain people to get away from others and in some cases avail themselves of city services without paying city takes (Exhibit A: Baltimore). You don't pay DC property taxes and our councilmembers cater to your transportation whims. Sounds like a raw deal to this DC resident.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
New poster and late to this party but...I'm a suburbanite, neither I nor my spouse has ever worked in DC, yet we go into the city frequently and spend money there. We have no desire to live in the city but we absolutely go to the museums, a lot of theater, concerts, exhibits and other events. Yes, most of the museums are free, but we pay for plenty of other outings, meals, parking, etc. So: Are we just "parasites" or are we coming into your city and contribuing to its coffers? I'd bet we spend considerably more in DC than office workers who live in 'burbs like us, work in DC, but leave each night and don't spend any money on entertainment in the city at all. But if you want to call us suburban parasites, go right ahead.

Yes, that is correct. You might want to brush up on your land use history. Suburbs didn't just magically appear outside of city centers from thin air. They were created to allow certain people to get away from others and in some cases avail themselves of city services without paying city takes (Exhibit A: Baltimore). You don't pay DC property taxes and our councilmembers cater to your transportation whims. Sounds like a raw deal to this DC resident.

This is unhinged. There are 3 million people that live in Alexandria, Arlington, Fairfax County, Montgomery County and Prince George’s County and the far and away vast majority of them have lives that have nothing to do with DC. They live, work, and play in their own communities. All parasites apparently, who are stealing from DC and if they venture into DC to spend money, that makes them worse because being physically in DC and standing on a sidewalk or whatever means they are using “services” which makes them even worse parasites even though they are contributing to the city’s economy.

[Anonymous]

I live in a different city (since 2018) and WFH has practically destroyed the underground train station that the majority of people commuting into downtown from the suburbs took. There used to be over a dozen, maybe more, stores under there and now they’re all closed. There is a small courtyard area that is now sitting empty with weeds and trash. It’s super depressing.

[Anonymous]

I don’t know what Bowser is complaining about. DC’s budget forecast looks perfectly fine with everyone working from home. She should leave people alone and focus on managing the city better.

https://www.dcpolicycenter.org/publications/fy2024-dc-budget-forecast/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The District of Columbia’s fiscal condition is facing serious headwinds and should be at the forefront of the agenda for the mayor and Council. It should concern everyone that neither the mayor nor the Council seem to be lending this issue the level of seriousness it deserves.

There is a predictable budget gap that will occur when the Federal stimulus funds run out and there has yet to be any evidence that there is any planning for this eventuality. In fact it seems like the opposite, as more and more spending programs are being introduced.

It is hard not to conclude that there is some denial afoot or at the worst, negligence. DC was presented with a once-in-a-generation opportunity and it is hard not to come to the conclusion that they not only whiffed but backslided by wasting this significant Federal infusion. It’s a shame.

The mayor most definitely is paying attention to this:

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/01/20/bowser-biden-federal-workers-washington-dc-00078677

The Council, meanwhile, has decided to add an annual $42 million to the budget for free buses, plus hundreds of millions of dollars for other frivolities, because they apparently think it's still 2012. But hey, maybe we can speed-camera our way out of the problem (note: if Maryland and Virginia residents don't have to pay those tickets, and DC residents only have to pay those tickets in certain circumstances, then no, we can't speed-camera our way out of the problem).

Did you read the article? It is well reported and balanced, but it literally points out that the mayor’s goal for 100,000 residents downtown is un-serious, calling it “far-fetched” and concludes that “banking on federal workers is probably not a long-term strategy” for the city.

My view is that the mayor needs to lead and so far she seems to be in as much denial as the Council. Making pie-in-the-sky proposals is not any more comforting than proposing and passing more and more entitlements that the mayor also signed off on.

The mayors failure to lead is also reflected in the article in urgency of the matter. It reports that the Federal government is a quarter of the workforce and a third of the office space representing at least a quarter of DC’s economy. It points out, that with low unemployment, liberal Federal government WFH policies allow it to be competitive. It points out that Bowser’s return to office proposal aligns her with Congressional Republicans and how it is inconsistent with her own WFH policies that only requires “frontline workers” to be in the office 3 days a week. It reiterates multiple times that Federal workers are hired to perform a specific job function and not serve as economic fodder for DC’s economy. It outlines the serious risks facing the city from the negative feedback loop caused by lower revenue from sales and CRE property taxes and how that can cascade to further population decline.

It’s clear that her economic development head understands all of this because much of it he is quoted as saying himself. It is not clear how much of this Bowser has truly come to grips with and the Council unfortunately is just moving forward unabated with their fingers in their ears singing la, la, la, la…

The mayor is the #1 reason why DC is in its predicament: she doesn't champion legislation that makes DC a nicer place to live or make it easier to get around without a car. She caters to suburbanites, people who don't even live here, and drivers who drive like maniacs and put resident lives at risk.

She is absolutely obsessed with constantly positioning herself to the right of the council, so she opposes legislation that would actually benefit DC residents with the free Metrobus trips that originate in DC.

She drags her feet on expanding the protected bike lane network and lets cops and drivers block the bus lanes, rendering them almost worthless. She installed a crappy part-time bus lane on 16th St. She is dragging her feet on Conn Ave.

She lets the churches block progress. Muriel Bowser is a clown and it's going to be another long four years under her.

Will banning cars replace 25% of DCs economy? They should do that tomorrow.

Here's the thing. DC's messy morning and afternoon rush hour traffic jams are back to where they were pre-pandemic. The car commuters are back in full force. What's not back is the metro commuters.
If downtown office buildings are to be repurposed it needs to be predicated on mass transit. DC can't handle and doesn't need more cars.
But that said, she can't legally just wave a wand and will it so. Federal buildings are owned or leased by GSA. In many cases there are multi-year leases which would need to be bought out or renegotiated. In many cases, the buildings are not suitable as residences, and would need to be completely gutted and rebuilt. But it also begs the question, residences for who, and why? And who really benefits - the developers? By bet is that's who.
Do we really need more luxury housing? And what about dealing with crime so that people would actually want to live there? What about fixing DC schools so that families don't flee to the burbs after elementary school?

The Political article points to a number of impracticalities of transforming downtown into an area with 100,000 new residents, including where would the new schools be to accommodate all of these new residents.

In addition, due to the need to transition away from reliance on government jobs and towards private sector jobs, at least initially the city will need to promote itself as a haven for reverse-commuters. If the city makes it harder for people to commute out of the city in cars then that comparative advantage is gone. The Silver Line takes 1 hour from downtown to the Reston metro stop. Driving a reverse commute to that same metro stop takes 35 minutes. Then once you get to the metro stop, you still need to get to your office, wherever that may be.

The strategy is obvious. The dimwits in this city who also work from home, and there are a lot of them, are intent on preventing that from happening.

I live in DC, my office is downtown DC, but I telework most of the time. Same with my wife, whose office is in NW, but she also teleworks fulltime. Neither of us drove to work, I'd walk (2 miles), wife would take metro. Pre-pandemic, we both usually packed our lunches, and only go out for lunch or dinner on occasion, that really hasn't changed much pre-or-post pandemic. Our kid went to school in DC, also not a driver - now in college at GW, still doesn't need to drive. Car only gets used on weekends for outings, shopping, visiting friends and family. Car's been paid off for years but is in great shape with only 60k miles on it. Our home is almost paid off, from its 15-year mortgage. We have a big chunk of retirement savings and a healthy investment portfolio. Life is good - and we're not 1%ers - for combined household income we'd just barely be near the top 10% https://www.investopedia.com/personal-finance/how-much-income-puts-you-top-1-5-10/. Can't say I feel like the dimwit seeing others sitting in rush-hour traffic road rage idiocy day in and day out.

You established yourself in a completely different time period and area. Sounds like you bought a SFH in NW, sent your kid to established quality NW elementaries, then perhaps on to Walls. That is completely different from families buying/renting downtown and sending their kids where, to Dunbar? While I disagree with PP’s premise that we need to focus on car commuters, the city clearly would need to do a LOT more to attract families downtown.

To reply, yes, we established ourselves here pre-pandemic and pre-WFH - but not really ALL that different of a period and era otherwise. We moved to DC 10 years ago. Not NW, but SW. Not Walls, but Basis. The biggest thing DC needs to do is, NUMBER 1: fix its schools, NUMBER 2: fix its schools (so important it's both number 1 and number 2) and Number 3: get developers to provide more family-friendly housing as opposed to all the luxury apartments or places intended for only having a bunch of single professionals rooming together as is the case in Navy Yard, Wharf and a bunch of other parts of the city. A ton of our friends bail out of the city the second their kids finish elementary because a.) the DC schools suck and b.) their family has outgrown their tiny apartment. But I don't see how reclaiming a bunch of downtown office space is going to accomplish that. The developers are going to want to market those at top dollar, too much for regular families to afford. Not to mention, where is there anything like a supermarket downtown? Closest place to Federal Triangle/Penn Quarter etc where a lot of the federal offices are would be Mt Vernon, Capitol Hill, NoMa etc. Not exactly convenient. Redevelopment would have to include a lot of other things as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The District of Columbia’s fiscal condition is facing serious headwinds and should be at the forefront of the agenda for the mayor and Council. It should concern everyone that neither the mayor nor the Council seem to be lending this issue the level of seriousness it deserves.

There is a predictable budget gap that will occur when the Federal stimulus funds run out and there has yet to be any evidence that there is any planning for this eventuality. In fact it seems like the opposite, as more and more spending programs are being introduced.

It is hard not to conclude that there is some denial afoot or at the worst, negligence. DC was presented with a once-in-a-generation opportunity and it is hard not to come to the conclusion that they not only whiffed but backslided by wasting this significant Federal infusion. It’s a shame.

The mayor most definitely is paying attention to this:

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/01/20/bowser-biden-federal-workers-washington-dc-00078677

The Council, meanwhile, has decided to add an annual $42 million to the budget for free buses, plus hundreds of millions of dollars for other frivolities, because they apparently think it's still 2012. But hey, maybe we can speed-camera our way out of the problem (note: if Maryland and Virginia residents don't have to pay those tickets, and DC residents only have to pay those tickets in certain circumstances, then no, we can't speed-camera our way out of the problem).

Did you read the article? It is well reported and balanced, but it literally points out that the mayor’s goal for 100,000 residents downtown is un-serious, calling it “far-fetched” and concludes that “banking on federal workers is probably not a long-term strategy” for the city.

My view is that the mayor needs to lead and so far she seems to be in as much denial as the Council. Making pie-in-the-sky proposals is not any more comforting than proposing and passing more and more entitlements that the mayor also signed off on.

The mayors failure to lead is also reflected in the article in urgency of the matter. It reports that the Federal government is a quarter of the workforce and a third of the office space representing at least a quarter of DC’s economy. It points out, that with low unemployment, liberal Federal government WFH policies allow it to be competitive. It points out that Bowser’s return to office proposal aligns her with Congressional Republicans and how it is inconsistent with her own WFH policies that only requires “frontline workers” to be in the office 3 days a week. It reiterates multiple times that Federal workers are hired to perform a specific job function and not serve as economic fodder for DC’s economy. It outlines the serious risks facing the city from the negative feedback loop caused by lower revenue from sales and CRE property taxes and how that can cascade to further population decline.

It’s clear that her economic development head understands all of this because much of it he is quoted as saying himself. It is not clear how much of this Bowser has truly come to grips with and the Council unfortunately is just moving forward unabated with their fingers in their ears singing la, la, la, la…

The mayor is the #1 reason why DC is in its predicament: she doesn't champion legislation that makes DC a nicer place to live or make it easier to get around without a car. She caters to suburbanites, people who don't even live here, and drivers who drive like maniacs and put resident lives at risk.

She is absolutely obsessed with constantly positioning herself to the right of the council, so she opposes legislation that would actually benefit DC residents with the free Metrobus trips that originate in DC.

She drags her feet on expanding the protected bike lane network and lets cops and drivers block the bus lanes, rendering them almost worthless. She installed a crappy part-time bus lane on 16th St. She is dragging her feet on Conn Ave.

She lets the churches block progress. Muriel Bowser is a clown and it's going to be another long four years under her.

Will banning cars replace 25% of DCs economy? They should do that tomorrow.

Here's the thing. DC's messy morning and afternoon rush hour traffic jams are back to where they were pre-pandemic. The car commuters are back in full force. What's not back is the metro commuters.
If downtown office buildings are to be repurposed it needs to be predicated on mass transit. DC can't handle and doesn't need more cars.
But that said, she can't legally just wave a wand and will it so. Federal buildings are owned or leased by GSA. In many cases there are multi-year leases which would need to be bought out or renegotiated. In many cases, the buildings are not suitable as residences, and would need to be completely gutted and rebuilt. But it also begs the question, residences for who, and why? And who really benefits - the developers? By bet is that's who.
Do we really need more luxury housing? And what about dealing with crime so that people would actually want to live there? What about fixing DC schools so that families don't flee to the burbs after elementary school?

The Political article points to a number of impracticalities of transforming downtown into an area with 100,000 new residents, including where would the new schools be to accommodate all of these new residents.

In addition, due to the need to transition away from reliance on government jobs and towards private sector jobs, at least initially the city will need to promote itself as a haven for reverse-commuters. If the city makes it harder for people to commute out of the city in cars then that comparative advantage is gone. The Silver Line takes 1 hour from downtown to the Reston metro stop. Driving a reverse commute to that same metro stop takes 35 minutes. Then once you get to the metro stop, you still need to get to your office, wherever that may be.

The strategy is obvious. The dimwits in this city who also work from home, and there are a lot of them, are intent on preventing that from happening.

I live in DC, my office is downtown DC, but I telework most of the time. Same with my wife, whose office is in NW, but she also teleworks fulltime. Neither of us drove to work, I'd walk (2 miles), wife would take metro. Pre-pandemic, we both usually packed our lunches, and only go out for lunch or dinner on occasion, that really hasn't changed much pre-or-post pandemic. Our kid went to school in DC, also not a driver - now in college at GW, still doesn't need to drive. Car only gets used on weekends for outings, shopping, visiting friends and family. Car's been paid off for years but is in great shape with only 60k miles on it. Our home is almost paid off, from its 15-year mortgage. We have a big chunk of retirement savings and a healthy investment portfolio. Life is good - and we're not 1%ers - for combined household income we'd just barely be near the top 10% https://www.investopedia.com/personal-finance/how-much-income-puts-you-top-1-5-10/. Can't say I feel like the dimwit seeing others sitting in rush-hour traffic road rage idiocy day in and day out.

You established yourself in a completely different time period and area. Sounds like you bought a SFH in NW, sent your kid to established quality NW elementaries, then perhaps on to Walls. That is completely different from families buying/renting downtown and sending their kids where, to Dunbar? While I disagree with PP’s premise that we need to focus on car commuters, the city clearly would need to do a LOT more to attract families downtown.

To reply, yes, we established ourselves here pre-pandemic and pre-WFH - but not really ALL that different of a period and era otherwise. We moved to DC 10 years ago. Not NW, but SW. Not Walls, but Basis. The biggest thing DC needs to do is, NUMBER 1: fix its schools, NUMBER 2: fix its schools (so important it's both number 1 and number 2) and Number 3: get developers to provide more family-friendly housing as opposed to all the luxury apartments or places intended for only having a bunch of single professionals rooming together as is the case in Navy Yard, Wharf and a bunch of other parts of the city. A ton of our friends bail out of the city the second their kids finish elementary because a.) the DC schools suck and b.) their family has outgrown their tiny apartment. But I don't see how reclaiming a bunch of downtown office space is going to accomplish that. The developers are going to want to market those at top dollar, too much for regular families to afford. Not to mention, where is there anything like a supermarket downtown? Closest place to Federal Triangle/Penn Quarter etc where a lot of the federal offices are would be Mt Vernon, Capitol Hill, NoMa etc. Not exactly convenient. Redevelopment would have to include a lot of other things as well.

I agree that building more SFHs is the ticket to a better DC, but the only place where there is land cheap enough to support this is EOTR (Congress Heights, for instance, has sweeping views of the city and tremendous potential). And developments there won’t take off until crime comes way down and the political narrative around gentrification changes dramatically. If I were Bowser right now, I’d be focused on the following (in sequence): (1) doing whatever is necessary to increase home ownership EOTR so that the residents can financially benefit from gentrification; (2) putting police on every corner EOTR; and (3) furiously lobbying Buttigieg to duck and cover 295 (and move the rail yard) to make the whole area much more attractive to live (no one wants to live next to an interstate or a freight yard, let alone both).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
New poster and late to this party but...I'm a suburbanite, neither I nor my spouse has ever worked in DC, yet we go into the city frequently and spend money there. We have no desire to live in the city but we absolutely go to the museums, a lot of theater, concerts, exhibits and other events. Yes, most of the museums are free, but we pay for plenty of other outings, meals, parking, etc. So: Are we just "parasites" or are we coming into your city and contribuing to its coffers? I'd bet we spend considerably more in DC than office workers who live in 'burbs like us, work in DC, but leave each night and don't spend any money on entertainment in the city at all. But if you want to call us suburban parasites, go right ahead.

Yes, that is correct. You might want to brush up on your land use history. Suburbs didn't just magically appear outside of city centers from thin air. They were created to allow certain people to get away from others and in some cases avail themselves of city services without paying city takes (Exhibit A: Baltimore). You don't pay DC property taxes and our councilmembers cater to your transportation whims. Sounds like a raw deal to this DC resident.

This is unhinged. There are 3 million people that live in Alexandria, Arlington, Fairfax County, Montgomery County and Prince George’s County and the far and away vast majority of them have lives that have nothing to do with DC. They live, work, and play in their own communities. All parasites apparently, who are stealing from DC and if they venture into DC to spend money, that makes them worse because being physically in DC and standing on a sidewalk or whatever means they are using “services” which makes them even worse parasites even though they are contributing to the city’s economy.

I was thinking about something tangential to this today. I fly around the world like a lot of people to visit cities like Paris, London, Hong Kong, Tokyo, etc. and love doing it. But I live in Fairfax and almost never spend any time in DC despite working in living under 30 minutes away. I was there was some draw to DC other than the sports stadiums. But I'd rather fly to London for the weekend than drive the 25 mins to DC. Weird.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The District of Columbia’s fiscal condition is facing serious headwinds and should be at the forefront of the agenda for the mayor and Council. It should concern everyone that neither the mayor nor the Council seem to be lending this issue the level of seriousness it deserves.

There is a predictable budget gap that will occur when the Federal stimulus funds run out and there has yet to be any evidence that there is any planning for this eventuality. In fact it seems like the opposite, as more and more spending programs are being introduced.

It is hard not to conclude that there is some denial afoot or at the worst, negligence. DC was presented with a once-in-a-generation opportunity and it is hard not to come to the conclusion that they not only whiffed but backslided by wasting this significant Federal infusion. It’s a shame.

The mayor most definitely is paying attention to this:

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/01/20/bowser-biden-federal-workers-washington-dc-00078677

The Council, meanwhile, has decided to add an annual $42 million to the budget for free buses, plus hundreds of millions of dollars for other frivolities, because they apparently think it's still 2012. But hey, maybe we can speed-camera our way out of the problem (note: if Maryland and Virginia residents don't have to pay those tickets, and DC residents only have to pay those tickets in certain circumstances, then no, we can't speed-camera our way out of the problem).

Did you read the article? It is well reported and balanced, but it literally points out that the mayor’s goal for 100,000 residents downtown is un-serious, calling it “far-fetched” and concludes that “banking on federal workers is probably not a long-term strategy” for the city.

My view is that the mayor needs to lead and so far she seems to be in as much denial as the Council. Making pie-in-the-sky proposals is not any more comforting than proposing and passing more and more entitlements that the mayor also signed off on.

The mayors failure to lead is also reflected in the article in urgency of the matter. It reports that the Federal government is a quarter of the workforce and a third of the office space representing at least a quarter of DC’s economy. It points out, that with low unemployment, liberal Federal government WFH policies allow it to be competitive. It points out that Bowser’s return to office proposal aligns her with Congressional Republicans and how it is inconsistent with her own WFH policies that only requires “frontline workers” to be in the office 3 days a week. It reiterates multiple times that Federal workers are hired to perform a specific job function and not serve as economic fodder for DC’s economy. It outlines the serious risks facing the city from the negative feedback loop caused by lower revenue from sales and CRE property taxes and how that can cascade to further population decline.

It’s clear that her economic development head understands all of this because much of it he is quoted as saying himself. It is not clear how much of this Bowser has truly come to grips with and the Council unfortunately is just moving forward unabated with their fingers in their ears singing la, la, la, la…

The mayor is the #1 reason why DC is in its predicament: she doesn't champion legislation that makes DC a nicer place to live or make it easier to get around without a car. She caters to suburbanites, people who don't even live here, and drivers who drive like maniacs and put resident lives at risk.

She is absolutely obsessed with constantly positioning herself to the right of the council, so she opposes legislation that would actually benefit DC residents with the free Metrobus trips that originate in DC.

She drags her feet on expanding the protected bike lane network and lets cops and drivers block the bus lanes, rendering them almost worthless. She installed a crappy part-time bus lane on 16th St. She is dragging her feet on Conn Ave.

She lets the churches block progress. Muriel Bowser is a clown and it's going to be another long four years under her.

Will banning cars replace 25% of DCs economy? They should do that tomorrow.

Here's the thing. DC's messy morning and afternoon rush hour traffic jams are back to where they were pre-pandemic. The car commuters are back in full force. What's not back is the metro commuters.
If downtown office buildings are to be repurposed it needs to be predicated on mass transit. DC can't handle and doesn't need more cars.
But that said, she can't legally just wave a wand and will it so. Federal buildings are owned or leased by GSA. In many cases there are multi-year leases which would need to be bought out or renegotiated. In many cases, the buildings are not suitable as residences, and would need to be completely gutted and rebuilt. But it also begs the question, residences for who, and why? And who really benefits - the developers? By bet is that's who.
Do we really need more luxury housing? And what about dealing with crime so that people would actually want to live there? What about fixing DC schools so that families don't flee to the burbs after elementary school?

The Political article points to a number of impracticalities of transforming downtown into an area with 100,000 new residents, including where would the new schools be to accommodate all of these new residents.

In addition, due to the need to transition away from reliance on government jobs and towards private sector jobs, at least initially the city will need to promote itself as a haven for reverse-commuters. If the city makes it harder for people to commute out of the city in cars then that comparative advantage is gone. The Silver Line takes 1 hour from downtown to the Reston metro stop. Driving a reverse commute to that same metro stop takes 35 minutes. Then once you get to the metro stop, you still need to get to your office, wherever that may be.

The strategy is obvious. The dimwits in this city who also work from home, and there are a lot of them, are intent on preventing that from happening.

I live in DC, my office is downtown DC, but I telework most of the time. Same with my wife, whose office is in NW, but she also teleworks fulltime. Neither of us drove to work, I'd walk (2 miles), wife would take metro. Pre-pandemic, we both usually packed our lunches, and only go out for lunch or dinner on occasion, that really hasn't changed much pre-or-post pandemic. Our kid went to school in DC, also not a driver - now in college at GW, still doesn't need to drive. Car only gets used on weekends for outings, shopping, visiting friends and family. Car's been paid off for years but is in great shape with only 60k miles on it. Our home is almost paid off, from its 15-year mortgage. We have a big chunk of retirement savings and a healthy investment portfolio. Life is good - and we're not 1%ers - for combined household income we'd just barely be near the top 10% https://www.investopedia.com/personal-finance/how-much-income-puts-you-top-1-5-10/. Can't say I feel like the dimwit seeing others sitting in rush-hour traffic road rage idiocy day in and day out.

You established yourself in a completely different time period and area. Sounds like you bought a SFH in NW, sent your kid to established quality NW elementaries, then perhaps on to Walls. That is completely different from families buying/renting downtown and sending their kids where, to Dunbar? While I disagree with PP’s premise that we need to focus on car commuters, the city clearly would need to do a LOT more to attract families downtown.

To reply, yes, we established ourselves here pre-pandemic and pre-WFH - but not really ALL that different of a period and era otherwise. We moved to DC 10 years ago. Not NW, but SW. Not Walls, but Basis. The biggest thing DC needs to do is, NUMBER 1: fix its schools, NUMBER 2: fix its schools (so important it's both number 1 and number 2) and Number 3: get developers to provide more family-friendly housing as opposed to all the luxury apartments or places intended for only having a bunch of single professionals rooming together as is the case in Navy Yard, Wharf and a bunch of other parts of the city. A ton of our friends bail out of the city the second their kids finish elementary because a.) the DC schools suck and b.) their family has outgrown their tiny apartment. But I don't see how reclaiming a bunch of downtown office space is going to accomplish that. The developers are going to want to market those at top dollar, too much for regular families to afford. Not to mention, where is there anything like a supermarket downtown? Closest place to Federal Triangle/Penn Quarter etc where a lot of the federal offices are would be Mt Vernon, Capitol Hill, NoMa etc. Not exactly convenient. Redevelopment would have to include a lot of other things as well.

I agree that building more SFHs is the ticket to a better DC, but the only place where there is land cheap enough to support this is EOTR (Congress Heights, for instance, has sweeping views of the city and tremendous potential). And developments there won’t take off until crime comes way down and the political narrative around gentrification changes dramatically. If I were Bowser right now, I’d be focused on the following (in sequence): (1) doing whatever is necessary to increase home ownership EOTR so that the residents can financially benefit from gentrification; (2) putting police on every corner EOTR; and (3) furiously lobbying Buttigieg to duck and cover 295 (and move the rail yard) to make the whole area much more attractive to live (no one wants to live next to an interstate or a freight yard, let alone both).

The PP is begging the city to improve schools and provide 3 bedroom flats and the response to propose to spend billions to cover I-295 and promote homeownership in Wards 7 & 8. Neither of those things are bad, however they do not directly address the priorities. The lack of listening to and willingness to address the expressed needs of people is a big problem in this city. Everyone thinks they know better when all they really need to do is to just listen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
New poster and late to this party but...I'm a suburbanite, neither I nor my spouse has ever worked in DC, yet we go into the city frequently and spend money there. We have no desire to live in the city but we absolutely go to the museums, a lot of theater, concerts, exhibits and other events. Yes, most of the museums are free, but we pay for plenty of other outings, meals, parking, etc. So: Are we just "parasites" or are we coming into your city and contribuing to its coffers? I'd bet we spend considerably more in DC than office workers who live in 'burbs like us, work in DC, but leave each night and don't spend any money on entertainment in the city at all. But if you want to call us suburban parasites, go right ahead.

Yes, that is correct. You might want to brush up on your land use history. Suburbs didn't just magically appear outside of city centers from thin air. They were created to allow certain people to get away from others and in some cases avail themselves of city services without paying city takes (Exhibit A: Baltimore). You don't pay DC property taxes and our councilmembers cater to your transportation whims. Sounds like a raw deal to this DC resident.

This is unhinged. There are 3 million people that live in Alexandria, Arlington, Fairfax County, Montgomery County and Prince George’s County and the far and away vast majority of them have lives that have nothing to do with DC. They live, work, and play in their own communities. All parasites apparently, who are stealing from DC and if they venture into DC to spend money, that makes them worse because being physically in DC and standing on a sidewalk or whatever means they are using “services” which makes them even worse parasites even though they are contributing to the city’s economy.

I was thinking about something tangential to this today. I fly around the world like a lot of people to visit cities like Paris, London, Hong Kong, Tokyo, etc. and love doing it. But I live in Fairfax and almost never spend any time in DC despite working in living under 30 minutes away. I was there was some draw to DC other than the sports stadiums. But I'd rather fly to London for the weekend than drive the 25 mins to DC. Weird.

You might feel differently if you didn't have elite flier status and miles, due entirely to your employer (or client) paying for your business class tix to Fly Around The World A Lot. Like if you were paying for things yourself, you might check out the Kennedy Center instead of London theater next weekend.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The District of Columbia’s fiscal condition is facing serious headwinds and should be at the forefront of the agenda for the mayor and Council. It should concern everyone that neither the mayor nor the Council seem to be lending this issue the level of seriousness it deserves.

There is a predictable budget gap that will occur when the Federal stimulus funds run out and there has yet to be any evidence that there is any planning for this eventuality. In fact it seems like the opposite, as more and more spending programs are being introduced.

It is hard not to conclude that there is some denial afoot or at the worst, negligence. DC was presented with a once-in-a-generation opportunity and it is hard not to come to the conclusion that they not only whiffed but backslided by wasting this significant Federal infusion. It’s a shame.

The mayor most definitely is paying attention to this:

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/01/20/bowser-biden-federal-workers-washington-dc-00078677

The Council, meanwhile, has decided to add an annual $42 million to the budget for free buses, plus hundreds of millions of dollars for other frivolities, because they apparently think it's still 2012. But hey, maybe we can speed-camera our way out of the problem (note: if Maryland and Virginia residents don't have to pay those tickets, and DC residents only have to pay those tickets in certain circumstances, then no, we can't speed-camera our way out of the problem).

Did you read the article? It is well reported and balanced, but it literally points out that the mayor’s goal for 100,000 residents downtown is un-serious, calling it “far-fetched” and concludes that “banking on federal workers is probably not a long-term strategy” for the city.

My view is that the mayor needs to lead and so far she seems to be in as much denial as the Council. Making pie-in-the-sky proposals is not any more comforting than proposing and passing more and more entitlements that the mayor also signed off on.

The mayors failure to lead is also reflected in the article in urgency of the matter. It reports that the Federal government is a quarter of the workforce and a third of the office space representing at least a quarter of DC’s economy. It points out, that with low unemployment, liberal Federal government WFH policies allow it to be competitive. It points out that Bowser’s return to office proposal aligns her with Congressional Republicans and how it is inconsistent with her own WFH policies that only requires “frontline workers” to be in the office 3 days a week. It reiterates multiple times that Federal workers are hired to perform a specific job function and not serve as economic fodder for DC’s economy. It outlines the serious risks facing the city from the negative feedback loop caused by lower revenue from sales and CRE property taxes and how that can cascade to further population decline.

It’s clear that her economic development head understands all of this because much of it he is quoted as saying himself. It is not clear how much of this Bowser has truly come to grips with and the Council unfortunately is just moving forward unabated with their fingers in their ears singing la, la, la, la…

The mayor is the #1 reason why DC is in its predicament: she doesn't champion legislation that makes DC a nicer place to live or make it easier to get around without a car. She caters to suburbanites, people who don't even live here, and drivers who drive like maniacs and put resident lives at risk.

She is absolutely obsessed with constantly positioning herself to the right of the council, so she opposes legislation that would actually benefit DC residents with the free Metrobus trips that originate in DC.

She drags her feet on expanding the protected bike lane network and lets cops and drivers block the bus lanes, rendering them almost worthless. She installed a crappy part-time bus lane on 16th St. She is dragging her feet on Conn Ave.

She lets the churches block progress. Muriel Bowser is a clown and it's going to be another long four years under her.

Will banning cars replace 25% of DCs economy? They should do that tomorrow.

Here's the thing. DC's messy morning and afternoon rush hour traffic jams are back to where they were pre-pandemic. The car commuters are back in full force. What's not back is the metro commuters.
If downtown office buildings are to be repurposed it needs to be predicated on mass transit. DC can't handle and doesn't need more cars.
But that said, she can't legally just wave a wand and will it so. Federal buildings are owned or leased by GSA. In many cases there are multi-year leases which would need to be bought out or renegotiated. In many cases, the buildings are not suitable as residences, and would need to be completely gutted and rebuilt. But it also begs the question, residences for who, and why? And who really benefits - the developers? By bet is that's who.
Do we really need more luxury housing? And what about dealing with crime so that people would actually want to live there? What about fixing DC schools so that families don't flee to the burbs after elementary school?

The Political article points to a number of impracticalities of transforming downtown into an area with 100,000 new residents, including where would the new schools be to accommodate all of these new residents.

In addition, due to the need to transition away from reliance on government jobs and towards private sector jobs, at least initially the city will need to promote itself as a haven for reverse-commuters. If the city makes it harder for people to commute out of the city in cars then that comparative advantage is gone. The Silver Line takes 1 hour from downtown to the Reston metro stop. Driving a reverse commute to that same metro stop takes 35 minutes. Then once you get to the metro stop, you still need to get to your office, wherever that may be.

The strategy is obvious. The dimwits in this city who also work from home, and there are a lot of them, are intent on preventing that from happening.

I live in DC, my office is downtown DC, but I telework most of the time. Same with my wife, whose office is in NW, but she also teleworks fulltime. Neither of us drove to work, I'd walk (2 miles), wife would take metro. Pre-pandemic, we both usually packed our lunches, and only go out for lunch or dinner on occasion, that really hasn't changed much pre-or-post pandemic. Our kid went to school in DC, also not a driver - now in college at GW, still doesn't need to drive. Car only gets used on weekends for outings, shopping, visiting friends and family. Car's been paid off for years but is in great shape with only 60k miles on it. Our home is almost paid off, from its 15-year mortgage. We have a big chunk of retirement savings and a healthy investment portfolio. Life is good - and we're not 1%ers - for combined household income we'd just barely be near the top 10% https://www.investopedia.com/personal-finance/how-much-income-puts-you-top-1-5-10/. Can't say I feel like the dimwit seeing others sitting in rush-hour traffic road rage idiocy day in and day out.

You established yourself in a completely different time period and area. Sounds like you bought a SFH in NW, sent your kid to established quality NW elementaries, then perhaps on to Walls. That is completely different from families buying/renting downtown and sending their kids where, to Dunbar? While I disagree with PP’s premise that we need to focus on car commuters, the city clearly would need to do a LOT more to attract families downtown.

Uh, School Without Walls is in Foggy Bottom, BASIS is downtown, and Banneker is in central Shaw. All are practically on top of metro lines. (Middle school is a different story...)

those are HS/MS that you have to get admitted to or lottery … hardly what you need to attract young families to DC or get them to stay.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
New poster and late to this party but...I'm a suburbanite, neither I nor my spouse has ever worked in DC, yet we go into the city frequently and spend money there. We have no desire to live in the city but we absolutely go to the museums, a lot of theater, concerts, exhibits and other events. Yes, most of the museums are free, but we pay for plenty of other outings, meals, parking, etc. So: Are we just "parasites" or are we coming into your city and contribuing to its coffers? I'd bet we spend considerably more in DC than office workers who live in 'burbs like us, work in DC, but leave each night and don't spend any money on entertainment in the city at all. But if you want to call us suburban parasites, go right ahead.

Yes, that is correct. You might want to brush up on your land use history. Suburbs didn't just magically appear outside of city centers from thin air. They were created to allow certain people to get away from others and in some cases avail themselves of city services without paying city takes (Exhibit A: Baltimore). You don't pay DC property taxes and our councilmembers cater to your transportation whims. Sounds like a raw deal to this DC resident.

This is unhinged. There are 3 million people that live in Alexandria, Arlington, Fairfax County, Montgomery County and Prince George’s County and the far and away vast majority of them have lives that have nothing to do with DC. They live, work, and play in their own communities. All parasites apparently, who are stealing from DC and if they venture into DC to spend money, that makes them worse because being physically in DC and standing on a sidewalk or whatever means they are using “services” which makes them even worse parasites even though they are contributing to the city’s economy.

I was thinking about something tangential to this today. I fly around the world like a lot of people to visit cities like Paris, London, Hong Kong, Tokyo, etc. and love doing it. But I live in Fairfax and almost never spend any time in DC despite working in living under 30 minutes away. I was there was some draw to DC other than the sports stadiums. But I'd rather fly to London for the weekend than drive the 25 mins to DC. Weird.

There's a hell of a lot more to do in DC than there is in Fairfax or anywhere else in the DC burbs. Museums, music, art, and so much more, and for us, much of it is walkable or otherwise easy to get to. We're doing tons of stuff in DC every weekend. You throw Paris, London, Hong Kong out there, but the thing is, most normal people don't have the money to visit those places except for maybe once every so many years.

The barrier isn't at all a lack of things to do, it's the fact that you have to deal with traffic and don't want to take mass transit. Inside DC we don't have anywhere near as much of a problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
New poster and late to this party but...I'm a suburbanite, neither I nor my spouse has ever worked in DC, yet we go into the city frequently and spend money there. We have no desire to live in the city but we absolutely go to the museums, a lot of theater, concerts, exhibits and other events. Yes, most of the museums are free, but we pay for plenty of other outings, meals, parking, etc. So: Are we just "parasites" or are we coming into your city and contribuing to its coffers? I'd bet we spend considerably more in DC than office workers who live in 'burbs like us, work in DC, but leave each night and don't spend any money on entertainment in the city at all. But if you want to call us suburban parasites, go right ahead.

Yes, that is correct. You might want to brush up on your land use history. Suburbs didn't just magically appear outside of city centers from thin air. They were created to allow certain people to get away from others and in some cases avail themselves of city services without paying city takes (Exhibit A: Baltimore). You don't pay DC property taxes and our councilmembers cater to your transportation whims. Sounds like a raw deal to this DC resident.

This is unhinged. There are 3 million people that live in Alexandria, Arlington, Fairfax County, Montgomery County and Prince George’s County and the far and away vast majority of them have lives that have nothing to do with DC. They live, work, and play in their own communities. All parasites apparently, who are stealing from DC and if they venture into DC to spend money, that makes them worse because being physically in DC and standing on a sidewalk or whatever means they are using “services” which makes them even worse parasites even though they are contributing to the city’s economy.

I was thinking about something tangential to this today. I fly around the world like a lot of people to visit cities like Paris, London, Hong Kong, Tokyo, etc. and love doing it. But I live in Fairfax and almost never spend any time in DC despite working in living under 30 minutes away. I was there was some draw to DC other than the sports stadiums. But I'd rather fly to London for the weekend than drive the 25 mins to DC. Weird.

There's a hell of a lot more to do in DC than there is in Fairfax or anywhere else in the DC burbs. Museums, music, art, and so much more, and for us, much of it is walkable or otherwise easy to get to. We're doing tons of stuff in DC every weekend. You throw Paris, London, Hong Kong out there, but the thing is, most normal people don't have the money to visit those places except for maybe once every so many years.

The barrier isn't at all a lack of things to do, it's the fact that you have to deal with traffic and don't want to take mass transit. Inside DC we don't have anywhere near as much of a problem.

As the PPs have said, you would do well to listen to people to understand the point is that the vast majority of people in Fairfax are very happy in Fairfax and happy to spend their time there and have no barrier to going to DC except the fact that they just don’t want to because it’s not a priority for them. I’m glad that you have a ton of fun stuff to do in DC every weekend. People that live in Fairfax also have a ton of fun stuff to do every weekend. Just accept that people have different interests and the suburbs are not filled with people that wish they were in DC. Quite the opposite in fact. That vast majority of people in the suburbs have no connection to DC at all and are very happy.

[Anonymous]

Washington Post weighs in suggesting that everyone needs to serve billionaire real estate owners.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2023/01/27/downtown-dc-office-buildings-remote-workers/

Also notable and funny that Bowser is no longer letting Falcicchio talk to the media. Sounds like her antics have not been winning any friends in the White House.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Washington Post weighs in suggesting that everyone needs to serve billionaire real estate owners.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2023/01/27/downtown-dc-office-buildings-remote-workers/

Also notable and funny that Bowser is no longer letting Falcicchio talk to the media. Sounds like her antics have not been winning any friends in the White House.

To be fair, that's the only way for DC to get any of my money. My family spends all our social, entertainment, etc time in the burbs or traveling. The suburbs have adapted to WFH with excellent restaurants and entertainment. Do the burbs have Michelin starred restaurants? No, but I also wouldn't go into DC for that - that's something to do when visiting NYC.