“We need to preserve diversity and mitigate the projected whitening of the feeder pattern”

Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:I think the issue that everyone is dancing around is class. It’s considered fine to be “diverse” so long as they aren’t poor. And we all know that DCUM is afraid of the poor students - who in DC are predominantly Black and Hispanic - coming from homes with anything less than white-collar jobs with highly educated parents. It’s terrifying. Washingtonians aren’t necessarily racists as much as elitist and classist. And in DC class is divided by class. We don’t have a large population of working poor whites. If we did, those students wouldn’t be wanted at the high performing schools either.


And once again, DCPS was explicit in the powerpoit that this is about class, not really race:

"The general profile of the OOB student is they are from Ward 1 and Ward 4 and students of color. But they are not families who qualify as at-risk. Implementing an at-risk preference for OOB seats can help with this."

So student of color who are not at risk don't really count in DCPS calculations.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:What's wrong with walkability? That's what creates communities and allows parents work options that aren't centered on drop off. Driving also isn't environmentally friendly.

These are complex, nuanced discussions. Decisions have repercussions, both intended and unintended.


Walkability is a big reason that parents choose to buy in proximity to schools. Lots of us think being able to walk to school and to leave near classmates is a very big part of what makes a school community


Walkability is huge! It’s good for the kids and good for the family’s logistics.
Anonymous
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Anonymous wrote:Maybe the issue is the word whitening. I’ve never heard that and it does sound hostile or just offensive even if trie. You’d never be caught dead saying blackening that’s for sure.


Right — concentration of white students would have been less awkward


But the problem isn’t the white students (who are IB and just following the rules and attending thei IB schools.) The problem is that black kids’ IB schools are failing.


What if “the rules” were changed to be less inclined to increasing levels of segregation? Eg, end by right high school, real set asides, synchronized middle and high school entry years. Would that fix every failing school? No. But it would address the inequalities that are unavoidable with segregated schools in America.


if it was persistent enough, you'd just see a new generation of white flight schools. No parent in Chevy Chase is sending their kid to Ballou


100%. Families will move out of the city or go private. I don't want to schlep across the city for a GREAT school and I definitely wouldn't put up with it for a poorly rated school. We want a school we can walk to, who's proximity makes it easy to be an active participant/parent, who's population is largely in the neighborhood (for easy after school socialization). If by right schools go away, we'd move to MoCo.

I'm okay with tightening up the boundaries to make room for at risk OOB students, but I think preserving neighborhood schools is extremely important.


I don't know why you guys bring up whites leaving. DCPS has made it very clear they don't care. They DO care about donors whose kids are already in private leaving or their childless donors. Not white families like yours, DCPS is actually interested in serving low SES families most of the time and they tend to not be white.


I used to believe that DCPS is interested in serving low SES families but I no longer do. We have failing schools full of low SES kids across the city with no improvement in their outcomes. DCPS is interested in covering up their failures by sending these kids to schools with higher performing kids, or sending higher performing kids to these schools. It’s lazy and doomed to fail because the higher performing kids have the means to leave if they don’t like the hand they are dealt. I feel for DCPS in a way because there is no way that school alone can help the issues plaguing many children in wards 7 & 8.


Nor is it their job or responsibility to. These kids' issues start at home. Until we are willing to call that out as a society, this is a continuing downward spiral.


I agree it’s not DCPS’s responsibility. However, many people — politicians, parents, etc — apparently expect schools to fix the ills of poverty, and many educational leaders seem to want to take on the mission as though it’s noble, even if it dilutes focus on the job of education.


Spoken like a privileged person.

Yea sure let's focus on education, I'm sure while mom is getting beaten, gun shots are being fired, food is not on the table, drugs are being used, homeless, etc. those kids are focused on their ABC's and 123's. Dang DCPS! Don't they know they should JUST focus on education?!


So it is your belief that DCPS should try to address domestic violence, gun control, violent crime, drug use, and homelessness? That's quite a task list you've come up with. Talk about setting the system up to fail.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:What's wrong with walkability? That's what creates communities and allows parents work options that aren't centered on drop off. Driving also isn't environmentally friendly.

These are complex, nuanced discussions. Decisions have repercussions, both intended and unintended.


Walkability is a big reason that parents choose to buy in proximity to schools. Lots of us think being able to walk to school and to leave near classmates is a very big part of what makes a school community


Walkability is huge! It’s good for the kids and good for the family’s logistics.


right. that’s why the idea that we’re going to solve poverty in DC by getting at-risk families to somehow get their kids to a different sector of the city and home every day on their own (no buses) is absurd. The focus on helping a handful of at-risk families through OOB set asides is 100% optics and has nothing to do with solving problems. ironically it also likely functions as a de facto gifted program for at-risk kids. it’s just the height of 2021 to focus on OOB seats as the solution for at-risk families so motivated that they will figure out a way to get from Ward 8 to Ward 3, as opposed to creating gifted programs in their own schools.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Re-draw the boundaries for WOTP schools to reduce the number of IB students, actually implement a 20% at-risk set aside for these schools, send all the other OOBs back to their IB and force other families to use their IB if they are in DCPS. The at-risk kids would have the right to go through to HS. Anyone who moves OOB can stay through that school year and then has to move to their IB - no principal discretion.

But DCPS/OSSE/the Mayor have no stomach for the hard choices that would benefit at-risk kids and kids IB for non-WOTP schools.


And that is why what you present as an easy peasy solution will fail every time. You can’t force families who have other options to send their children to a failing school. Will never happen.


Aside from the issue the PP raised, there are two additional obvious problems with this "solution:"

- If you redraw boundaries to make IB populations smaller, you're going to need more schools WOTP.
- This just further serves to concentrate student populations WOTP. It's absurd that the "solution" is to make at-risk kids travel clear across the city to go to school.
Anonymous
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Anonymous wrote:Maybe the issue is the word whitening. I’ve never heard that and it does sound hostile or just offensive even if trie. You’d never be caught dead saying blackening that’s for sure.


Right — concentration of white students would have been less awkward


But the problem isn’t the white students (who are IB and just following the rules and attending thei IB schools.) The problem is that black kids’ IB schools are failing.


What if “the rules” were changed to be less inclined to increasing levels of segregation? Eg, end by right high school, real set asides, synchronized middle and high school entry years. Would that fix every failing school? No. But it would address the inequalities that are unavoidable with segregated schools in America.


if it was persistent enough, you'd just see a new generation of white flight schools. No parent in Chevy Chase is sending their kid to Ballou


100%. Families will move out of the city or go private. I don't want to schlep across the city for a GREAT school and I definitely wouldn't put up with it for a poorly rated school. We want a school we can walk to, who's proximity makes it easy to be an active participant/parent, who's population is largely in the neighborhood (for easy after school socialization). If by right schools go away, we'd move to MoCo.

I'm okay with tightening up the boundaries to make room for at risk OOB students, but I think preserving neighborhood schools is extremely important.


I don't know why you guys bring up whites leaving. DCPS has made it very clear they don't care. They DO care about donors whose kids are already in private leaving or their childless donors. Not white families like yours, DCPS is actually interested in serving low SES families most of the time and they tend to not be white.


I used to believe that DCPS is interested in serving low SES families but I no longer do. We have failing schools full of low SES kids across the city with no improvement in their outcomes. DCPS is interested in covering up their failures by sending these kids to schools with higher performing kids, or sending higher performing kids to these schools. It’s lazy and doomed to fail because the higher performing kids have the means to leave if they don’t like the hand they are dealt. I feel for DCPS in a way because there is no way that school alone can help the issues plaguing many children in wards 7 & 8.


Nor is it their job or responsibility to. These kids' issues start at home. Until we are willing to call that out as a society, this is a continuing downward spiral.


I agree it’s not DCPS’s responsibility. However, many people — politicians, parents, etc — apparently expect schools to fix the ills of poverty, and many educational leaders seem to want to take on the mission as though it’s noble, even if it dilutes focus on the job of education.


Spoken like a privileged person.

Yea sure let's focus on education, I'm sure while mom is getting beaten, gun shots are being fired, food is not on the table, drugs are being used, homeless, etc. those kids are focused on their ABC's and 123's. Dang DCPS! Don't they know they should JUST focus on education?!


So it is your belief that DCPS should try to address domestic violence, gun control, violent crime, drug use, and homelessness? That's quite a task list you've come up with. Talk about setting the system up to fail.


Also, that’s a racist daydream. Shame.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:No, it’s really not okay to speak, in an official school system document, about too many white people being a problem. We need to start speaking about diversity in terms of culture and socio-economics. It is a worthy goal to have schools that represent a diversity of culture, sociology-economics and races. Students learn to understand each other if the topics are addressed effectively. But language and respect matter. If you alienate people, they become less willing to engage. We should not make anyone feel unwelcome or as though there is an undesirable number of a particular group.


No one thinks it is a problem that there are white students in DCPS! It’s a problem that they all try to cram in the same 15 schools, leading to systemwide segregation and overcrowding in those schools.


They "try to cram" into their IB schools. As in, go to the school that they can walk to, that their friends attend.

It seems like you really want to prevent white people with kids from buying houses in certain neighborhoods.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:On the one hand, DCPS criticizes white "segregation" as a problem, but on the other, City planners hate "gentrification" into historically non-white neighborhoods. There doesn't seem to be a way to NOT offend, these days. Maybe that's the way it's gotta be.


Well, there is one obvious fix that neither upholds white segregation nor moves white people into historically non-white neighborhoods, which is to build more (actually) affordable housing in historically white neighborhoods. Maybe THAT's the way it's gotta be.


Exactly this.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:No, it’s really not okay to speak, in an official school system document, about too many white people being a problem. We need to start speaking about diversity in terms of culture and socio-economics. It is a worthy goal to have schools that represent a diversity of culture, sociology-economics and races. Students learn to understand each other if the topics are addressed effectively. But language and respect matter. If you alienate people, they become less willing to engage. We should not make anyone feel unwelcome or as though there is an undesirable number of a particular group.


No one thinks it is a problem that there are white students in DCPS! It’s a problem that they all try to cram in the same 15 schools, leading to systemwide segregation and overcrowding in those schools.


They "try to cram" into their IB schools. As in, go to the school that they can walk to, that their friends attend.

It seems like you really want to prevent white people with kids from buying houses in certain neighborhoods.


Maybe, just maybe, most of the white families wouldn't cram into the same 15 schools if three things were true: 1) there were more supports for at-risk students across the board, particularly much improved instructor to student ratios, 2) social promotion was no longer automatic in DC public elementary or middle schools, and 3) DC were to pass a law on Gifted education mandating funded support for advanced learners, like MD and VA did 25 years ago.

When I was a kid in public school, consistently disruptive kids were routinely removed from general classrooms, and kids who didn't meet standards for grade-level work were commonly held back, forced to attend summer school and/or repeat grades. Not in DCPS or DCPC. All it takes are 3 or 4 kids in your kids class who are seriously disruptive, and working 2 or 3 years behind grade level, to derail the learning experience for the others. In DC, such kids are generally poor and AA. Where I grew up, they were poor and white.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I think the issue that everyone is dancing around is class. It’s considered fine to be “diverse” so long as they aren’t poor. And we all know that DCUM is afraid of the poor students - who in DC are predominantly Black and Hispanic - coming from homes with anything less than white-collar jobs with highly educated parents. It’s terrifying. Washingtonians aren’t necessarily racists as much as elitist and classist. And in DC class is divided by class. We don’t have a large population of working poor whites. If we did, those students wouldn’t be wanted at the high performing schools either.


And once again, DCPS was explicit in the powerpoit that this is about class, not really race:

"The general profile of the OOB student is they are from Ward 1 and Ward 4 and students of color. But they are not families who qualify as at-risk. Implementing an at-risk preference for OOB seats can help with this."

So student of color who are not at risk don't really count in DCPS calculations.


Then why have a headline about "whitening"? It's completely unnecessary and also not true, given the increase in other POC's - Middle Eastern, Asian, Latin/Hispanic - in the catchment.

Instead, the should've kept the focus on "decreasing SES diversity in the feeder pattern". No need to shame white families for existing.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Re-draw the boundaries for WOTP schools to reduce the number of IB students, actually implement a 20% at-risk set aside for these schools, send all the other OOBs back to their IB and force other families to use their IB if they are in DCPS. The at-risk kids would have the right to go through to HS. Anyone who moves OOB can stay through that school year and then has to move to their IB - no principal discretion.

But DCPS/OSSE/the Mayor have no stomach for the hard choices that would benefit at-risk kids and kids IB for non-WOTP schools.


And that is why what you present as an easy peasy solution will fail every time. You can’t force families who have other options to send their children to a failing school. Will never happen.


Of course it’s not easy hence “hard choices.” Part of why these are hard choices is that they will piss people off and many will choose to leave. That’s the price we would pay for a system that better serves more students.


What are you smoking? The price we would pay in DCPS and DCPC for breaking what's working, in the guise of making necessary "hard choices," is a system that serves far fewer students well, or adequately, period. We'd be back to the early 2000s, maybe even the 90s, in the ed sector as a city.

Pissing off more UMC parents than have already been pissed off by wrong-headed, year-long Covid shutdowns will achieve nothing for low-income students. This is a no brainer.


But it’s actually not working. It’s broken. And the only way not to piss off UMC is to do nothing.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
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Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Maybe the issue is the word whitening. I’ve never heard that and it does sound hostile or just offensive even if trie. You’d never be caught dead saying blackening that’s for sure.


Right — concentration of white students would have been less awkward


But the problem isn’t the white students (who are IB and just following the rules and attending thei IB schools.) The problem is that black kids’ IB schools are failing.


What if “the rules” were changed to be less inclined to increasing levels of segregation? Eg, end by right high school, real set asides, synchronized middle and high school entry years. Would that fix every failing school? No. But it would address the inequalities that are unavoidable with segregated schools in America.


if it was persistent enough, you'd just see a new generation of white flight schools. No parent in Chevy Chase is sending their kid to Ballou


100%. Families will move out of the city or go private. I don't want to schlep across the city for a GREAT school and I definitely wouldn't put up with it for a poorly rated school. We want a school we can walk to, who's proximity makes it easy to be an active participant/parent, who's population is largely in the neighborhood (for easy after school socialization). If by right schools go away, we'd move to MoCo.

I'm okay with tightening up the boundaries to make room for at risk OOB students, but I think preserving neighborhood schools is extremely important.


I don't know why you guys bring up whites leaving. DCPS has made it very clear they don't care. They DO care about donors whose kids are already in private leaving or their childless donors. Not white families like yours, DCPS is actually interested in serving low SES families most of the time and they tend to not be white.


I used to believe that DCPS is interested in serving low SES families but I no longer do. We have failing schools full of low SES kids across the city with no improvement in their outcomes. DCPS is interested in covering up their failures by sending these kids to schools with higher performing kids, or sending higher performing kids to these schools. It’s lazy and doomed to fail because the higher performing kids have the means to leave if they don’t like the hand they are dealt. I feel for DCPS in a way because there is no way that school alone can help the issues plaguing many children in wards 7 & 8.


Nor is it their job or responsibility to. These kids' issues start at home. Until we are willing to call that out as a society, this is a continuing downward spiral.


I agree it’s not DCPS’s responsibility. However, many people — politicians, parents, etc — apparently expect schools to fix the ills of poverty, and many educational leaders seem to want to take on the mission as though it’s noble, even if it dilutes focus on the job of education.


Spoken like a privileged person.

Yea sure let's focus on education, I'm sure while mom is getting beaten, gun shots are being fired, food is not on the table, drugs are being used, homeless, etc. those kids are focused on their ABC's and 123's. Dang DCPS! Don't they know they should JUST focus on education?!


So it is your belief that DCPS should try to address domestic violence, gun control, violent crime, drug use, and homelessness? That's quite a task list you've come up with. Talk about setting the system up to fail.


No silly, but educators should focus on how to teach children to cope with such things, have parent outreach, etc. And FYI we ARE expected to do that, you seriously though teachers were just teachers? Seriously? Why do you think we always want more money?

As a special education teacher I do my job, I am a case manager, the gen ed teacher, the counselor, the social worker, mandated reported, child care provider, nurse, cook, parent therapist, etc.
Before covid I had received my LICSW. Many of the families I serve are going through trauma or went through it. Is it right that teachers should have to do this? No. But I wanted to. And I do not do this for the whole school, I do have boundaries. And do all teachers encompass all of the roles I listed? No, *cough title 2 teachers. Just kidding, kind of.

Do I think DC should step up more for the community side of things? ABSOLUTELY!!! But generational issues keep going, and I do think I can help break the cycle for the students I serve.
Anonymous
Maybe, just maybe, most of the white families wouldn't cram into the same 15 schools if three things were true: 1) there were more supports for at-risk students across the board, particularly much improved instructor to student ratios, 2) social promotion was no longer automatic in DC public elementary or middle schools, and 3) DC were to pass a law on Gifted education mandating funded support for advanced learners, like MD and VA did 25 years ago.

When I was a kid in public school, consistently disruptive kids were routinely removed from general classrooms, and kids who didn't meet standards for grade-level work were commonly held back, forced to attend summer school and/or repeat grades. Not in DCPS or DCPC. All it takes are 3 or 4 kids in your kids class who are seriously disruptive, and working 2 or 3 years behind grade level, to derail the learning experience for the others. In DC, such kids are generally poor and AA. Where I grew up, they were poor and white.


This sums it up. No parent, regardless of race or SES, who cares about their child's education will voluntarily place their child in that environment.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Nor is it their job or responsibility to. These kids' issues start at home. Until we are willing to call that out as a society, this is a continuing downward spiral.


I agree it’s not DCPS’s responsibility. However, many people — politicians, parents, etc — apparently expect schools to fix the ills of poverty, and many educational leaders seem to want to take on the mission as though it’s noble, even if it dilutes focus on the job of education.


Spoken like a privileged person.

Yea sure let's focus on education, I'm sure while mom is getting beaten, gun shots are being fired, food is not on the table, drugs are being used, homeless, etc. those kids are focused on their ABC's and 123's. Dang DCPS! Don't they know they should JUST focus on education?!


So it is your belief that DCPS should try to address domestic violence, gun control, violent crime, drug use, and homelessness? That's quite a task list you've come up with. Talk about setting the system up to fail.


No silly, but educators should focus on how to teach children to cope with such things, have parent outreach, etc. And FYI we ARE expected to do that, you seriously though teachers were just teachers? Seriously? Why do you think we always want more money?

As a special education teacher I do my job, I am a case manager, the gen ed teacher, the counselor, the social worker, mandated reported, child care provider, nurse, cook, parent therapist, etc.
Before covid I had received my LICSW. Many of the families I serve are going through trauma or went through it. Is it right that teachers should have to do this? No. But I wanted to. And I do not do this for the whole school, I do have boundaries. And do all teachers encompass all of the roles I listed? No, *cough title 2 teachers. Just kidding, kind of.

Do I think DC should step up more for the community side of things? ABSOLUTELY!!! But generational issues keep going, and I do think I can help break the cycle for the students I serve.

It would also be great if Ward 3 parents would stop complaining about their budget allocations compared to Title I schools. On the one hand, you say - sending them to our schools won't fix anything and then on the other hand, you say don't give them any extra funding compared to what we get (and ignore all the fundraising we do to support our schools).
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Maybe the issue is the word whitening. I’ve never heard that and it does sound hostile or just offensive even if trie. You’d never be caught dead saying blackening that’s for sure.


Right — concentration of white students would have been less awkward


But the problem isn’t the white students (who are IB and just following the rules and attending thei IB schools.) The problem is that black kids’ IB schools are failing.


What if “the rules” were changed to be less inclined to increasing levels of segregation? Eg, end by right high school, real set asides, synchronized middle and high school entry years. Would that fix every failing school? No. But it would address the inequalities that are unavoidable with segregated schools in America.


if it was persistent enough, you'd just see a new generation of white flight schools. No parent in Chevy Chase is sending their kid to Ballou


100%. Families will move out of the city or go private. I don't want to schlep across the city for a GREAT school and I definitely wouldn't put up with it for a poorly rated school. We want a school we can walk to, who's proximity makes it easy to be an active participant/parent, who's population is largely in the neighborhood (for easy after school socialization). If by right schools go away, we'd move to MoCo.

I'm okay with tightening up the boundaries to make room for at risk OOB students, but I think preserving neighborhood schools is extremely important.


I don't know why you guys bring up whites leaving. DCPS has made it very clear they don't care. They DO care about donors whose kids are already in private leaving or their childless donors. Not white families like yours, DCPS is actually interested in serving low SES families most of the time and they tend to not be white.


I used to believe that DCPS is interested in serving low SES families but I no longer do. We have failing schools full of low SES kids across the city with no improvement in their outcomes. DCPS is interested in covering up their failures by sending these kids to schools with higher performing kids, or sending higher performing kids to these schools. It’s lazy and doomed to fail because the higher performing kids have the means to leave if they don’t like the hand they are dealt. I feel for DCPS in a way because there is no way that school alone can help the issues plaguing many children in wards 7 & 8.


Nor is it their job or responsibility to. These kids' issues start at home. Until we are willing to call that out as a society, this is a continuing downward spiral.


I agree it’s not DCPS’s responsibility. However, many people — politicians, parents, etc — apparently expect schools to fix the ills of poverty, and many educational leaders seem to want to take on the mission as though it’s noble, even if it dilutes focus on the job of education.


Spoken like a privileged person.

Yea sure let's focus on education, I'm sure while mom is getting beaten, gun shots are being fired, food is not on the table, drugs are being used, homeless, etc. those kids are focused on their ABC's and 123's. Dang DCPS! Don't they know they should JUST focus on education?!


So it is your belief that DCPS should try to address domestic violence, gun control, violent crime, drug use, and homelessness? That's quite a task list you've come up with. Talk about setting the system up to fail.


No silly, but educators should focus on how to teach children to cope with such things, have parent outreach, etc. And FYI we ARE expected to do that, you seriously though teachers were just teachers? Seriously? Why do you think we always want more money?

As a special education teacher I do my job, I am a case manager, the gen ed teacher, the counselor, the social worker, mandated reported, child care provider, nurse, cook, parent therapist, etc.
Before covid I had received my LICSW. Many of the families I serve are going through trauma or went through it. Is it right that teachers should have to do this? No. But I wanted to. And I do not do this for the whole school, I do have boundaries. And do all teachers encompass all of the roles I listed? No, *cough title 2 teachers. Just kidding, kind of.

Do I think DC should step up more for the community side of things? ABSOLUTELY!!! But generational issues keep going, and I do think I can help break the cycle for the students I serve.


I know you do all those things, that you work harder than you are supposed to, and that you care a lot. But you describe exactly what I think is a big problem.

You shouldn’t get paid more; someone additional should get paid for one of the jobs — teacher or social worker. It would cost more, but then you both could do your jobs more fully. Now, you can make a difference for some kids, but you can’t change the trajectory for a wise-swath of students on your own.

The system works the way it does now — teacher as social worker — because it’s cheap and the providers find it personally rewarding. But it’s a bad choice on the managers’ (eg, the mayor) parts because it won’t lead to the level of change needed. Same short-shrift solution; same results....
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