Disappointed with Georgetown

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with you OP.
Georgetown is overrated. The campus is seedy. Living in DC, I know several Georgetown professors and they don’t seem very happy at all. They are constantly complaining that the administration sucks and that many students are rich, spoiled and entitled.

LOLOLOL

Professors complain at every school. Trust me.

- Sister of a professor

Exactly! Professors at every school complain! I took my PhD to work outside of academia - but every single colleague from our PhD department that went on to academia complains about the students and the administration at their schools (covering a huge range on every scale - whether it be elite, less competitive, slac, public, private - undergrad only, grad program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I relate to OP in that what turns me off about GU is a multitude of smaller things rather than one obvious issue. Just a few:

1. I hate how it’s so Catholic but pretends not to be. The school touts their endless number of chaplains and residential ministers—more than any other college I believe. There is religious iconography and signage everywhere. And yet people claim it’s nominally Christian. They should pick a lane and it can be uncomfortable for non-Christians. ND is clear about its identity. It’s also such a waste of money. I mean, chaplains for the crew team?

2. I’ve never seen an undergraduate population that is so showy in terms of status gear/logos, and where the rich and poor kids feel as far apart. 19-year-old girls look like rich sahm’s. Plus all the minor nobility hanging around. I prefer colleges where kids can at least pretend to rise above class fissures.

3. The local neighborhood really hates the school. I’m sure this isn’t the only town/gown conflict but it’s definitely the worst I’ve seen. Living off campus means being around people who hate you on sight. And the dorms are full of rats.

That said, I would still send a DC there for IR or business school for all the reasons PPs state.

This is a crazy post - nothing you say is Georgetown specific (or is very off base)
Point 1 - how can you possibly judge these things? Yes, it is a Jesuit institution and it owns it. And, as a Jesuit institution it is accepting of other religions or flavors of Christianity - to the point of wanting to LEARN about them and TEACH them and foster conversation AMONG religions. They literally said this was a goal at our child's convocation.
Point 2 - You are kidding, right? BC and ND are FAR more showy in terms of status and logos (as are most schools with big sports of some kind - Michigan, UNC, Duke....).
Point 3 - EVERY college that spills out into a neighborhood has the same tensions. (Again - BC included here)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We live in VA. It never occurred to us that our kids would apply to Georgetown because we figured if they could get in there they’d get into UVA which only costs half as much. Still, you’re not gonna find us bashing the school.

OP is odd.

Agreed.

But will add as a non-VA resident to OP (and OP's kid) RE their thoughts on where they should except to be accepted - DC had a Georgetown SFS acceptance but not accepted to UVA (even with EA in play). The idea of low acceptance rates being a lottery is really a LOTTERY - you cannot predict or rank which lottery you will win (IF ANY <<< Hint this is key!)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son and I did our first college tours this week. Although we don't live that far away, this was the first time I had seen Georgetown since my own tour nearly 30 years ago. It was very insightful.

A 17-year-old middle class kid who loved politics and fantasized about running for office, Georgetown was my first choice. I got into the College. The financial aid package was very loan heavy, and a top LAC (recommended by my college professor neighbor) was very grant heavy. My parents strongly pushed the latter option, and I threw away my Georgetown t-shirt and maybe shed a few tears alone in my room. The social experience at the LAC was a bit lonely, mostly because of my own anxieties, but I made up for it with academic growth. Majored in mathematics. Took lots of classics and economics courses and ended up at a world-class economics department for my Ph.D.

Obviously this visit was about my son, but I honestly felt a sense of longing as we approached the campus. There were a few initial surprises. First, the campus had a very shabby feel. Asphalt everywhere. One big, beautiful historic building, but mostly a patchwork of 1950s-1990s buildings. 757s flying over every few minutes didn't feel terribly compatible with quiet contemplation and study. After the tour, I couldn't believe that my 17-year-old self found this so desirable. The next surprise was at the information session. Admission to the undergraduate College and SFS is even tougher than I had thought. They turn away nearly 90% of applicants.

When we left, I mentioned none of this to my son, asking instead what he thought. His take: "Dad, if I could manage to get in here, I think I could also get in somewhere much better, so why bother applying." He's much more astute than I was.

Here's my take:

Georgetown is a very good -- and very expensive -- school.

Many US cities/metro areas have very fine Jesuit universities (BC, Fordham, Santa Clara, etc.). I really don't think the quality of the undergraduate education at Georgetown is any better than what one would get at those schools. Candidly, I think its basketball program is emblematic of the university as a whole. There were moments of success, but the reputation has greatly outlasted those moments.

Georgetown got a boost in the late 20th Century for a couple reasons.
1. It's in DC.
2. It's in the fanciest part of DC.
3. There's not a lot of competition in DC for the title "best university in DC."
4. It has a lot of household names among its alumni, because it attracts aspiring politicians. Successful politicians are famous, for better or worse. The vast majority of Georgetown students who want to ultimately hold high office do not.
5. It has some famous faculty who worked in government before receiving a plum academic appointment. These people are extremely impressive to 18 year old students. With age and experience you realize that many of them are just stuffed suits.

If I could make one point to prospective students, it's this: any student who can get into the College or SFS could get into a top 10 LAC -- and maybe even Williams/Amherst/Swarthmore. There is no comparison between the quality of teaching and undergraduate academic experience between Georgetown and those schools. Any student who can get into the College or SFS would also have a good chance of getting into an Ivy League school. There is no comparison between the resources and research going on at those universities and Georgetown.

I decided to write this because I'm curious about how others in this area feel, since the school remains so desirable to so many outstanding young people.

If attending a Catholic school is extremely important to you, Georgetown is the nation's oldest and most selective. If you son or daughter absolutely must be in DC for college, it is the top school in the District. Otherwise, guide your your child somewhere else.

I have two responses, as someone who is not affiliated in any way with Georgetown.

1) the planes flying overhead were MUCH louder 30 years ago than they are today.
2) As to the bolded, sure any kid *could* get into those other schools, but at single digit admissions, and I would argue that SFS would be single digit as well if it were on the common app, that for many applicants, GU is the best school that the applicant felt was the best fit, so maybe they applied to those other schools, or maybe they didn't, but not applying and then not gaining admissions to other single digit admit rate schools if it is still a desire to be in DC or be at a school like GU, seems silly.

+1 our DC did not like some of the same things about Georgetown that OP mentioned and it was very low on their list in terms of "wish list" - but to our surprise, they applied anyway (reason - because SFS was too much of a match for their interests). After the dust settled in April with admissions decisions and visits to accepted schools, DC ended up readjusting their own "rankings" and Georgetown ended up in the top group (again because of what SFS had to offer).

They learned two things in the process that OP should consider:
- getting into Georgetown didn't mean they'd get into other schools (ranked near or even significantly below!) Georgetown.
- sometimes you need to have head-to-head choices of ACTUAL acceptances in hand to learn what it is you really want out of a college

Not wanting to apply to Georgetown is perfectly reasonable - as with every college - there are all kinds of reasons to apply and not to apply. But if you like Georgetown enough to consider going - don't assume that you'll just get into another school of the same (or lower) caliber - because you could find yourself not getting into any of those and you'll never know if you would have had. Georgetown as an option.

[Anonymous]

There is only one word to describe Georgetown - meh!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is only one word to describe Georgetown - meh!

Astute, just like OP’s son.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really loved Georgetown back in my day - I ended up at Princeton, but it was for sure my number 2. Just saying no sour grapes here, got in and liked it.

Toured recently with DC. Then did a GW tour after - we were both more impressed with GW than Georgetown. It's funny to me that someone said ND was about a "storied sports program" bcs that was what Georgetown was in my day. I think not having that any more is a loss - even for me, who cares nothing about sports.

We also went to Penn on that trip and realized very quickly the schools with a 15% acceptance rate are not in the same universe as the schools with the 5% acceptance rate.

Again, your son has not been accepted at Georgetown, so your opinion is meaningless.

I guess you don't tour at all with your children? Just apply based on gut and then they can tour and make their preferences known about schools they were attended to?

Honestly, we didn’t tour every school that our kids applied to. We also haven’t bashed any school that they haven’t been accepted to either.

Again, you take it too personally. There is always a downside to a school. For Georgetown it is the decaying and overbuilt campus and lack of endowment. For BC it is lack of housiing for freshmen right on campus[b]. For ND it is middle of midwest location. No school is perfect, and Georgetown is no exception.

Really? I LOVED living on Newton campus and so did all of my friends. Wouldn't trade it for Upper at all (and I had a taste of that as an RA to Upper Freshmen)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really loved Georgetown back in my day - I ended up at Princeton, but it was for sure my number 2. Just saying no sour grapes here, got in and liked it.

Toured recently with DC. Then did a GW tour after - we were both more impressed with GW than Georgetown. It's funny to me that someone said ND was about a "storied sports program" bcs that was what Georgetown was in my day. I think not having that any more is a loss - even for me, who cares nothing about sports.

We also went to Penn on that trip and realized very quickly the schools with a 15% acceptance rate are not in the same universe as the schools with the 5% acceptance rate.

Again, your son has not been accepted at Georgetown, so your opinion is meaningless.

I guess you don't tour at all with your children? Just apply based on gut and then they can tour and make their preferences known about schools they were attended to?

Honestly, we didn’t tour every school that our kids applied to. We also haven’t bashed any school that they haven’t been accepted to either.

Again, you take it too personally. There is always a downside to a school. For Georgetown it is the decaying and overbuilt campus and lack of endowment. For BC it is lack of housiing for freshmen right on campus[b]. For ND it is middle of midwest location. No school is perfect, and Georgetown is no exception.

Really? I LOVED living on Newton campus and so did all of my friends. Wouldn't trade it for Upper at all (and I had a taste of that as an RA to Upper Freshmen)

Thanks for clarifying that. I am the PP. Honestly I don’t even know much about it. I just know my son was accepted and offered on campus housing, which was presented as a bonus. I am sure if he went, either way he would have loved it. But he decided on ND which he loved.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really loved Georgetown back in my day - I ended up at Princeton, but it was for sure my number 2. Just saying no sour grapes here, got in and liked it.

Toured recently with DC. Then did a GW tour after - we were both more impressed with GW than Georgetown. It's funny to me that someone said ND was about a "storied sports program" bcs that was what Georgetown was in my day. I think not having that any more is a loss - even for me, who cares nothing about sports.

We also went to Penn on that trip and realized very quickly the schools with a 15% acceptance rate are not in the same universe as the schools with the 5% acceptance rate.

Again, your son has not been accepted at Georgetown, so your opinion is meaningless.

I guess you don't tour at all with your children? Just apply based on gut and then they can tour and make their preferences known about schools they were attended to?

Honestly, we didn’t tour every school that our kids applied to. We also haven’t bashed any school that they haven’t been accepted to either.

Again, you take it too personally. There is always a downside to a school. For Georgetown it is the decaying and overbuilt campus and lack of endowment. For BC it is lack of housiing for freshmen right on campus[b]. For ND it is middle of midwest location. No school is perfect, and Georgetown is no exception.

Really? I LOVED living on Newton campus and so did all of my friends. Wouldn't trade it for Upper at all (and I had a taste of that as an RA to Upper Freshmen)

Thanks for clarifying that. I am the PP. Honestly I don’t even know much about it. I just know my son was accepted and offered on campus housing, which was presented as a bonus. I am sure if he went, either way he would have loved it. But he decided on ND which he loved.

This is a very good example of how people shouldn’t make definitive statements about things they don’t really know about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really loved Georgetown back in my day - I ended up at Princeton, but it was for sure my number 2. Just saying no sour grapes here, got in and liked it.

Toured recently with DC. Then did a GW tour after - we were both more impressed with GW than Georgetown. It's funny to me that someone said ND was about a "storied sports program" bcs that was what Georgetown was in my day. I think not having that any more is a loss - even for me, who cares nothing about sports.

We also went to Penn on that trip and realized very quickly the schools with a 15% acceptance rate are not in the same universe as the schools with the 5% acceptance rate.

Again, your son has not been accepted at Georgetown, so your opinion is meaningless.

I guess you don't tour at all with your children? Just apply based on gut and then they can tour and make their preferences known about schools they were attended to?

Honestly, we didn’t tour every school that our kids applied to. We also haven’t bashed any school that they haven’t been accepted to either.

Again, you take it too personally. There is always a downside to a school. For Georgetown it is the decaying and overbuilt campus and lack of endowment. For BC it is lack of housiing for freshmen right on campus[b]. For ND it is middle of midwest location. No school is perfect, and Georgetown is no exception.

Really? I LOVED living on Newton campus and so did all of my friends. Wouldn't trade it for Upper at all (and I had a taste of that as an RA to Upper Freshmen)

Thanks for clarifying that. I am the PP. Honestly I don’t even know much about it. I just know my son was accepted and offered on campus housing, which was presented as a bonus. I am sure if he went, either way he would have loved it. But he decided on ND which he loved.

No problem - most BC students are offered three years of housing (or more) and all BC freshmen get on-campus housing. For freshman year, it just depends whether the location is Upper Campus (which is part of the Chestnut Hill campus and next to Middle Campus where most academic buildings are located) or Newton Campus (which is in Newton and where the Law School and some art classes are located). There is shuttle that goes between Chestnut Hill and Newton and also between Chestnut Hill and Cleveland Circle and parts of Brighton down Comm Ave for off campus Juniors. BC students like living on campus (different from my friends at other schools) and get better housing with more seniority - so they usually move off campus Junior year and then move back on campus senior year. The other benefit of being off campus Junior year is to have parties without RAs when some students are still underage (being honest...).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is very difficult to take seriously any post denigrating an elite college before the poster has an acceptance letter in hand. It’s just too loaded.

Not the OP, but I agree about his take on the campus and didn't "have an acceptance letter in hand." Kid didn't apply, but I am fairly sure he would have gotten in if he did. He got into ND and BC as well as some other safeties. He didn't apply to any ivies. Came from a DC Jesuit school and wanted to continue with a Catholic institution.

Why would someone need to have an acceptance letter in order to be taken seriously about their opinion on the physical condition of a college campus.

I don’t blame a kid from Prep or Gonzaga for wanting to go away to college and for having a viscerally negative reaction to any local school and not even applying. So I’d absolutely take your kid’s view on Georgetown with a huge grain of salt as well.

Also, it’s comical that PP thinks her kid would’ve definitely gotten into Georgetown. SFS has a 15% acceptance rate and the College has a 12% acceptance rate.

But sure — PP’s kid def would’ve been a shoe in.

PP here. I stand by my assertion of his likelihood of admission based on his college counselor's assurances. He had a perfect ACT score, many leadership positions, came from a Jesuit school, and we also had connections that we could have used (but obviously didn't need to).

lol ok. Whatever you say.

LOL OK. But you can't prove the PP wrong. Sounds like her kid was very qualified and probably would have gotten in. She didn't say it was a definite. Said "fairly sure." That's not definite.

I'm fairly sure my kid will get accepted to all HYPS schools. But, not going to apply. Their loss.

The PP didn't say anything about HYPS schools, which is a completely different situation. A kid out of a top DC Jesuit school with high stats and strong leadership roles has a very good chance of admission into Georgetown. Not so much at HYPS.

this is true. I only know about Regis, which is rigorous, but their acceptance rate at Georgetown is over 50%. They usually end up with 20 acceptances a year with btw 6-10 boys attending.

I have to think that's an outlier. Regis sends over a dozen kids to HYP and MIT every year (in total, not each). If you can get into Regis, you can write your ticket. Wish we had a school here like that.

It’s Jesuit, Dummy. Regis is Jesuit. Our Jesuit HS has a tons of acceptances to BC, ND, GU and other Jesuit universities too. Much much higher average than a non-Jesuit high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, have your kid tour Notre Dame. Gorgeous sprawling campus and no jets flying above, except for game days.

Completely different school.

And isn't that a good thing?

Depends on what the kid wants. Georgetown is unparalleled for its connections into DC. If that’s what a kid is looking to do, career-wise, Georgetown is the best.

Notre Dame is more your typical strong school with storied sports legacy.

NP. I thought ND was better than Georgetown academically, SFS aside.

Most people do. But this is DCUM and Georgetown is strong regionally.

Georgetown is respected nationally. Most people know ND for football.

ND's class is more diverse geographically than Georgetown's, but nice try.

ND is also more domestic students. Georgetown over 17% international. They love the full pay international kids. Basically, it's the St Andrews of America.

this is funny, although I do think they take too many intl kids.

Tell that to the other top schools, then - oh and you sound very ignorant.

Ivy League average is 12%. So Georgetown almost 50% higher. Now, I realize the Ivy League a much higher level of school, but for schools in the 20-50 range, I think 17% is even higher than the peer group.

Georgetown is also not a common app school. Which I doubt you knew because neither you nor your child bothered applying there.

THIS. BRAVO.

Moreover, SFS at least requires additional essays.

The fact that the acceptance rate is as low as it is is a testament to how desirable of a school Georgetown is.

I can't think of a top 20 school that doesn't require at least two extra essays.

But Georgetown requires a completely separate application.

AND TEST SCORES---VERY HIGH ONES are REQUIRED. This combined with not being on the common app weeds out unqualified applicants from even applying so you don't get the false applicant-selectivity% that other schools use to drive the selectivity falsely down (they send countless mailings, court students...students that don't stand a chance; but having them apply makes their number look more selective and gives them application fees).

It's noted that Georgetown's selectivity is really closer to 5% if you take these things into consideration.

This. Our large NoVA HS had zero acceptances to GU last year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most kids don’t want LACs, size is too similar to high schools. But if that is what your kid wants, go for it.

Yep. I went to a NE boarding school. Our college counselors told us that LACs would basically be 4 more years of high school.

Exactly why my son's counselor said (we're in CT.) I don't think there's a big overlap between LAC applicants and Georgetown applicants.

I graduated from Georgetown in the 1990s. It was a dump then and it's a dump now, but that had no effect on the quality of my education, the ability to socialize and make lifelong friends, participate fully in extracurriculars and activities on campus and beyond, and secure not just a great job but build a career. I would do it all over again.

OP, I would encourage you and your son to look past the shabbiness and focus on the quality of the education and the foundation it provides for a career. The academics are a cut above BC, Fordham, and Santa Clara (no offense to those schools.) And who even notices jet noise?

Seriously. Maybe flight paths have changed since I was there in 2005-2009, but I really don’t remember jet noises.

I work at Georgetown, and am wandering around campus every day. I haven't ever noticed any jet sounds. Hospital helicopters landing once in a while. But no jet noise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really loved Georgetown back in my day - I ended up at Princeton, but it was for sure my number 2. Just saying no sour grapes here, got in and liked it.

Toured recently with DC. Then did a GW tour after - we were both more impressed with GW than Georgetown. It's funny to me that someone said ND was about a "storied sports program" bcs that was what Georgetown was in my day. I think not having that any more is a loss - even for me, who cares nothing about sports.

We also went to Penn on that trip and realized very quickly the schools with a 15% acceptance rate are not in the same universe as the schools with the 5% acceptance rate.

Again, your son has not been accepted at Georgetown, so your opinion is meaningless.

I guess you don't tour at all with your children? Just apply based on gut and then they can tour and make their preferences known about schools they were attended to?

Honestly, we didn’t tour every school that our kids applied to. We also haven’t bashed any school that they haven’t been accepted to either.

Again, you take it too personally. There is always a downside to a school. For Georgetown it is the decaying and overbuilt campus and lack of endowment. For BC it is lack of housiing for freshmen right on campus. For ND it is middle of midwest location. No school is perfect, and Georgetown is no exception.

Really? I LOVED living on Newton campus and so did all of my friends. Wouldn't trade it for Upper at all (and I had a taste of that as an RA to Upper Freshmen)

Thanks for clarifying that. I am the PP. Honestly I don’t even know much about it. I just know my son was accepted and offered on campus housing, which was presented as a bonus. I am sure if he went, either way he would have loved it. But he decided on ND which he loved.

[b]This is a very good example of how people shouldn’t make definitive statements about things they don’t really know about.

+1

Right, OP? Right?!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is only one word to describe Georgetown - meh!

Astute, just like OP’s son.

LOL.