Ward 3 - Wilson feeders meeting last night: did anyone attend?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:#3 is really hard to do just in one part of the city. And once you get east of 16th street and Capitol Hill -- there aren't great pairing options available.

Agree, but outside of NWDC, no pairing is really needed because it's not a capacity problem. If a real capacity problem arises somewhere else, then SCPS can figure out a partner pairing that works. The key is that it specifically funnels excess students into another school that needs to have capacity filled, rather than just scattering the excess students to the wind or encouraging the overcapacity.

Yeah but it's worth mentioning again, all the schools are trending nearly all IB. Hearst and Shepherd will no longer be "under capacity" as both of them will likely be 80% or more IB in next 4-5 years.

[Anonymous]

New idea -- Let's just pay families to send their children somewhere else besides overcrowded schools like Deal and Wilson. Sounds dramatic, but hear me out ...

Right now, we're talking about spending tens or even hundreds of millions to build new schools in Northwest, just because DC doesn't want to impose rules that restrict anyone's right to attend Deal and Wilson. No politician wants to get criticized for changing boundaries, and every politician loves to give away free stuff. DCPS keeps saying it wants to generate ways to attract families into underutilized neighborhood schools, and it spends gobs of money renovating those empty schools and putting teachers and fancy education plans into those empty schools, but still parents would rather send children to overcrowded Wilson feeders.

So let's just pay people to leave Deal and Wilson. Paying $1,000 per student to 100 students costs only $100,000 total, which is by far the cheapest option of any DCPS seems to be considering. And because the money gets paid only if the student leaves the overcrowded school, we know it will be 100% effective, and the results will be immediate.

If people think it's unsavory to pay cash grants, DC could offer the money as a tax credit. That way, it's not even actual money out of the budget, but rather future collections which no one will even notice. If DCPS really wants to get the most bang for its buck, it could make the payments not just for leaving the overcrowded schools, but also for switching to a new school DCPS wants to pump up. If DCPS wants to get a cohort of students into new MacFarland MS, then just pay students $1,000 to switch from Deal to MacFarland. Not only does that reduce overcrowding at Deal, but it gets students to fill up MacFarland. DCPS could even create an application process for the payments, which allow DCPS to pick and choose whatever preferred mix of race, sex, academic achievement characteristics, and geography that it wants. That way, DCPS could get the exact right mix of equity, excellence and diversity it wants in the target school.

DCPS is wasting time trying to think up clever ways to attract students away from Alice Deal to other areas. Money talks and bullshit walks. DCPS should just pay people directly to do what it wants. That's far cheaper and more effective, and the families receiving the money will be happier.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:#3 is really hard to do just in one part of the city. And once you get east of 16th street and Capitol Hill -- there aren't great pairing options available.

Agree, but outside of NWDC, no pairing is really needed because it's not a capacity problem. If a real capacity problem arises somewhere else, then SCPS can figure out a partner pairing that works. The key is that it specifically funnels excess students into another school that needs to have capacity filled, rather than just scattering the excess students to the wind or encouraging the overcapacity.

Yeah but it's worth mentioning again, all the schools are trending nearly all IB. Hearst and Shepherd will no longer be "under capacity" as both of them will likely be 80% or more IB in next 4-5 years.

I am skeptical about your Hearst and Shepherd claims. People have been saying that since the boundary process 4-5 years ago, and they're both still majority OOB. Yes, the PK programs get filled up, but lots of those PK students will leave as they get older.

Also, it doesn't have to be a 100% solution. It helps maximize the capacity for those feeders and reduces overcrowding in the short term. If we reach the point where ALL the Deal feeders are 100% IB, and we still have an overcrowding problem, then we can try another step.

Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:New idea -- Let's just pay families to send their children somewhere else besides overcrowded schools like Deal and Wilson. Sounds dramatic, but hear me out ...

Right now, we're talking about spending tens or even hundreds of millions to build new schools in Northwest, just because DC doesn't want to impose rules that restrict anyone's right to attend Deal and Wilson. No politician wants to get criticized for changing boundaries, and every politician loves to give away free stuff. DCPS keeps saying it wants to generate ways to attract families into underutilized neighborhood schools, and it spends gobs of money renovating those empty schools and putting teachers and fancy education plans into those empty schools, but still parents would rather send children to overcrowded Wilson feeders.

So let's just pay people to leave Deal and Wilson. Paying $1,000 per student to 100 students costs only $100,000 total, which is by far the cheapest option of any DCPS seems to be considering. And because the money gets paid only if the student leaves the overcrowded school, we know it will be 100% effective, and the results will be immediate.

If people think it's unsavory to pay cash grants, DC could offer the money as a tax credit. That way, it's not even actual money out of the budget, but rather future collections which no one will even notice. If DCPS really wants to get the most bang for its buck, it could make the payments not just for leaving the overcrowded schools, but also for switching to a new school DCPS wants to pump up. If DCPS wants to get a cohort of students into new MacFarland MS, then just pay students $1,000 to switch from Deal to MacFarland. Not only does that reduce overcrowding at Deal, but it gets students to fill up MacFarland. DCPS could even create an application process for the payments, which allow DCPS to pick and choose whatever preferred mix of race, sex, academic achievement characteristics, and geography that it wants. That way, DCPS could get the exact right mix of equity, excellence and diversity it wants in the target school.

DCPS is wasting time trying to think up clever ways to attract students away from Alice Deal to other areas. Money talks and bullshit walks. DCPS should just pay people directly to do what it wants. That's far cheaper and more effective, and the families receiving the money will be happier.

I kind of love this. But I'd make them payment into an earmarked DC College savings account for the kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:New idea -

Create a serious application arts MS magnet program at Ellington for about 150-200 students. Those students who do well get a pref for admission to Ellington high school.

Haven't read most of this thread, but this is a fantastic idea, and there should be plenty of room at Ellington to house younger kids, who could do their art programs in the morning and their academics in the afternoon, making better use of the space and creating some separation between 6th graders and 12th graders.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:New idea -- Let's just pay families to send their children somewhere else besides overcrowded schools like Deal and Wilson. Sounds dramatic, but hear me out ...

Right now, we're talking about spending tens or even hundreds of millions to build new schools in Northwest, just because DC doesn't want to impose rules that restrict anyone's right to attend Deal and Wilson. No politician wants to get criticized for changing boundaries, and every politician loves to give away free stuff. DCPS keeps saying it wants to generate ways to attract families into underutilized neighborhood schools, and it spends gobs of money renovating those empty schools and putting teachers and fancy education plans into those empty schools, but still parents would rather send children to overcrowded Wilson feeders.

So let's just pay people to leave Deal and Wilson. Paying $1,000 per student to 100 students costs only $100,000 total, which is by far the cheapest option of any DCPS seems to be considering. And because the money gets paid only if the student leaves the overcrowded school, we know it will be 100% effective, and the results will be immediate.

If people think it's unsavory to pay cash grants, DC could offer the money as a tax credit. That way, it's not even actual money out of the budget, but rather future collections which no one will even notice. If DCPS really wants to get the most bang for its buck, it could make the payments not just for leaving the overcrowded schools, but also for switching to a new school DCPS wants to pump up. If DCPS wants to get a cohort of students into new MacFarland MS, then just pay students $1,000 to switch from Deal to MacFarland. Not only does that reduce overcrowding at Deal, but it gets students to fill up MacFarland. DCPS could even create an application process for the payments, which allow DCPS to pick and choose whatever preferred mix of race, sex, academic achievement characteristics, and geography that it wants. That way, DCPS could get the exact right mix of equity, excellence and diversity it wants in the target school.

DCPS is wasting time trying to think up clever ways to attract students away from Alice Deal to other areas. Money talks and bullshit walks. DCPS should just pay people directly to do what it wants. That's far cheaper and more effective, and the families receiving the money will be happier.

I kind of love this. But I'd make them payment into an earmarked DC College savings account for the kids.

It would have to be way more than $1000. Not many people I know would take a measly $1000 to accept what is perceived as a inferior option for their child's education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:New idea -- Let's just pay families to send their children somewhere else besides overcrowded schools like Deal and Wilson. Sounds dramatic, but hear me out ...

Right now, we're talking about spending tens or even hundreds of millions to build new schools in Northwest, just because DC doesn't want to impose rules that restrict anyone's right to attend Deal and Wilson. No politician wants to get criticized for changing boundaries, and every politician loves to give away free stuff. DCPS keeps saying it wants to generate ways to attract families into underutilized neighborhood schools, and it spends gobs of money renovating those empty schools and putting teachers and fancy education plans into those empty schools, but still parents would rather send children to overcrowded Wilson feeders.

So let's just pay people to leave Deal and Wilson. Paying $1,000 per student to 100 students costs only $100,000 total, which is by far the cheapest option of any DCPS seems to be considering. And because the money gets paid only if the student leaves the overcrowded school, we know it will be 100% effective, and the results will be immediate.

If people think it's unsavory to pay cash grants, DC could offer the money as a tax credit. That way, it's not even actual money out of the budget, but rather future collections which no one will even notice. If DCPS really wants to get the most bang for its buck, it could make the payments not just for leaving the overcrowded schools, but also for switching to a new school DCPS wants to pump up. If DCPS wants to get a cohort of students into new MacFarland MS, then just pay students $1,000 to switch from Deal to MacFarland. Not only does that reduce overcrowding at Deal, but it gets students to fill up MacFarland. DCPS could even create an application process for the payments, which allow DCPS to pick and choose whatever preferred mix of race, sex, academic achievement characteristics, and geography that it wants. That way, DCPS could get the exact right mix of equity, excellence and diversity it wants in the target school.

DCPS is wasting time trying to think up clever ways to attract students away from Alice Deal to other areas. Money talks and bullshit walks. DCPS should just pay people directly to do what it wants. That's far cheaper and more effective, and the families receiving the money will be happier.

I kind of love this. But I'd make them payment into an earmarked DC College savings account for the kids.

So families who either live in the Deal/Wilson boundary or won the lottery now also get cash payments to attend schools that for other kids are their only option? This seems equitable to you?

A more realistic option would be to invest more in non-Deal/Wilson schools which DCPS seems to be doing. However, upper NW parents are frequently arguing that their schools are under funded relative to the rest of DCPS. Not to mention that one of the underlying tenants of school choice and funds following students to the schools they attend is that it creates a "competition" of sorts. Giving extra money to under-enrolled schools works against that also.

[Anonymous]

Schools with higher needs get more resources, which is how it should work.

Equity =/= equal. But it is fair.

[Anonymous]

Paying students to change schools is really just paying for a resource. The most important ingredient of a successful school is not extra teachers or international baccalaureate programs or extra art classes - it's motivated and high achieving students. Paying families to attend an up and coming school is just paying for the most important ingredient.

[Anonymous]

So families who either live in the Deal/Wilson boundary or won the lottery now also get cash payments to attend schools that for other kids are their only option? This seems equitable to you?

Absolutely. People say DCPS won't "push" anyone out of Deal, and will only "pull" families out by attracting them to something they want more. So instead of just guessing what will attract those families, let's just give them cash which we know will attract most people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Paying students to change schools is really just paying for a resource. The most important ingredient of a successful school is not extra teachers or international baccalaureate programs or extra art classes - it's motivated and high achieving students. Paying families to attend an up and coming school is just paying for the most important ingredient.

+1.

And in the meeting notes the DCPS planners said that their experience has shown time and again that programming isn't enough to attract families to a school, at least at the elementary and middle school level. Exhibit A and B: IB at Eastern High School and Eliot-Hyne.

They can call it a hardship stipend to offset the travel hassle.

[Anonymous]

Truthfully, I'm shocked that anyone, never mind the last few posters, would think that paying families to not attend their in-boundary school is a good idea. You want to pay among the wealthiest families in DC an extra $1000, because even though the kids lucked out with wealthy families, we should give them extra resources to attend the crappy schools that are left over for everyone else.

What we need is a mayor/chancellor with some spine to re-draw boundaries in a reasonable way. Or if it really is impossible, build a new school.

[Anonymous]

LOL. $1000 is nowhere near enough. It wouldn't even offset what I would have to spend to make the school minimally acceptable and compensate for everything my child isn't getting. $10,000 would not be enough either. I just don't need the money and it isn' worth it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:#3 is really hard to do just in one part of the city. And once you get east of 16th street and Capitol Hill -- there aren't great pairing options available.

Agree, but outside of NWDC, no pairing is really needed because it's not a capacity problem. If a real capacity problem arises somewhere else, then SCPS can figure out a partner pairing that works. The key is that it specifically funnels excess students into another school that needs to have capacity filled, rather than just scattering the excess students to the wind or encouraging the overcapacity.

Yeah but it's worth mentioning again, all the schools are trending nearly all IB. Hearst and Shepherd will no longer be "under capacity" as both of them will likely be 80% or more IB in next 4-5 years.

Let's see if DCPS has the political will to ratchet back OB enrollment much as IB enrollment climbs. My guess it they will trim it a little bit, but not much and sit by as the schools become more and more crowded.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

So families who either live in the Deal/Wilson boundary or won the lottery now also get cash payments to attend schools that for other kids are their only option? This seems equitable to you?

Absolutely. People say DCPS won't "push" anyone out of Deal, and will only "pull" families out by attracting them to something they want more. So instead of just guessing what will attract those families, let's just give them cash which we know will attract most people.

This is complete B.S. DCPS tried to attract John Eaton families out of Deal (where Eaton kids have gone for like 70 years), to Hardy. When basically no one volunteered, DCPS pulled Eaton from Deal.