Barcroft elementary/ south Arlington crisis

[Anonymous]

No one here is discounting the quality of the teachers, the community feeling, or how hard Barcroft tries to succeed. in the end though, the kids don't do nearly as well as their peers in north schools. And that is true among demographic groups. That tells you your kid is not getting as good an education as they would somewhere else. We all hate those darn tests, but the comparisons are undeniable. Anecdotes about happy parents doesn't change thst. Comparing Performance measures says it all.

No. What it tells you is that some of those kids are not getting as much support at home as the kids who live in N. Arlington.

Your first sentence does not disguise your clear bias against the quality of teachers at schools like Barcroft. Just remember that teachers can only meet students where they are. If they are not coming in with background knowledge and many experiences, including weekly visits to the library, they cannot make as many connections as a kid who is coming in with those things. If the parents have to worry about how to put food on the table, as some families there do, they will not have the time to take them to the zoo, to museums, etc.

I would take five teachers from a school like Barcroft over nearly any teacher at a N. Arlington school.

[Anonymous]

^^hear hear! Well stated

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:While, it scratches a certain itch to imagine a much needed dose of reality shipped over to Jamestown, I'm in agreement that busing will not solve the problems the county is creating.
We need actual community planning. It boggles the mind that we can know what we do about functional, diverse neighborhoods, and then do almost exactly the opposite.

This is really an offensive statement. You should be ashamed of yourself. Seriously.

Nope. Not even a little.

You are despicable.

Forgive me. I meant to include Nottingham and Tuckahoe as well.

And Discovery

Silly me! Of course.

You couldn't be more vile if you tried. How do you live with yourself?

[Anonymous]

A lot of misinformation on this board. Barcroft's scores for non disadvantaged students are not far off those of other schools in the county in the core subjects of reading, writing, math.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

No one here is discounting the quality of the teachers, the community feeling, or how hard Barcroft tries to succeed. in the end though, the kids don't do nearly as well as their peers in north schools. And that is true among demographic groups. That tells you your kid is not getting as good an education as they would somewhere else. We all hate those darn tests, but the comparisons are undeniable. Anecdotes about happy parents doesn't change thst. Comparing Performance measures says it all.

No. What it tells you is that some of those kids are not getting as much support at home as the kids who live in N. Arlington.

Your first sentence does not disguise your clear bias against the quality of teachers at schools like Barcroft. Just remember that teachers can only meet students where they are. If they are not coming in with background knowledge and many experiences, including weekly visits to the library, they cannot make as many connections as a kid who is coming in with those things. If the parents have to worry about how to put food on the table, as some families there do, they will not have the time to take them to the zoo, to museums, etc.

I would take five teachers from a school like Barcroft over nearly any teacher at a N. Arlington school.

Not the previous poster, but I think you might be a little sensitive on this point. I'm certain the teachers are wonderful. I truly don't think anyone on this thread thinks the teachers are the problem. My concern when I look at the scores ( which I know aren't the end all be all) is that when you break down along peer groups, there is still a gap. Upper SES kids in the struggling S Arl schools aren't performing as well as their north Arlington counter parts, and by a significant margin. It's about a 10 point difference. That doesn't completely scare me off from the schools, and I will send my kids to one of the poorest schools we have mentioned. I absolutely believe DH and I can pick up the slack at home, but it is clear that when schools are this over burdened with a majority of under privledged children, all of the students get slowed down. I don't see a way around it.
The county seems to think it's just fine, and are actively trying to increase those numbers. Maybe they know something we don't... But it seems more likely that they just want everything to be fine and for us to shut up about it.

[Anonymous]

Not the previous poster, but I think you might be a little sensitive on this point. I'm certain the teachers are wonderful. I truly don't think anyone on this thread thinks the teachers are the problem. My concern when I look at the scores ( which I know aren't the end all be all) is that when you break down along peer groups, there is still a gap. Upper SES kids in the struggling S Arl schools aren't performing as well as their north Arlington counter parts, and by a significant margin. It's about a 10 point difference. That doesn't completely scare me off from the schools, and I will send my kids to one of the poorest schools we have mentioned. I absolutely believe DH and I can pick up the slack at home, but it is clear that when schools are this over burdened with a majority of under privledged children, all of the students get slowed down. I don't see a way around it.
The county seems to think it's just fine, and are actively trying to increase those numbers. Maybe they know something we don't... But it seems more likely that they just want everything to be fine and for us to shut up about it.

How could you possibly know this? Do you work for APS that you have information about SES levels for individual students? Do you also know which of those high-SES students might have 504s or IEPs? Please do tell what data you are basing the above comment on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:While, it scratches a certain itch to imagine a much needed dose of reality shipped over to Jamestown, I'm in agreement that busing will not solve the problems the county is creating.
We need actual community planning. It boggles the mind that we can know what we do about functional, diverse neighborhoods, and then do almost exactly the opposite.

This is really an offensive statement. You should be ashamed of yourself. Seriously.

Nope. Not even a little.

You are despicable.

Forgive me. I meant to include Nottingham and Tuckahoe as well.

And Discovery

Silly me! Of course.

You couldn't be more vile if you tried. How do you live with yourself?

Oh I could try much harder. I'm like, not trying at all. Seriously, your ridiculously misplaced feigned outrage is making my weekend. I just want to say, thank you. Thank you so much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Not the previous poster, but I think you might be a little sensitive on this point. I'm certain the teachers are wonderful. I truly don't think anyone on this thread thinks the teachers are the problem. My concern when I look at the scores ( which I know aren't the end all be all) is that when you break down along peer groups, there is still a gap. Upper SES kids in the struggling S Arl schools aren't performing as well as their north Arlington counter parts, and by a significant margin. It's about a 10 point difference. That doesn't completely scare me off from the schools, and I will send my kids to one of the poorest schools we have mentioned. I absolutely believe DH and I can pick up the slack at home, but it is clear that when schools are this over burdened with a majority of under privledged children, all of the students get slowed down. I don't see a way around it.
The county seems to think it's just fine, and are actively trying to increase those numbers. Maybe they know something we don't... But it seems more likely that they just want everything to be fine and for us to shut up about it.

How could you possibly know this? Do you work for APS that you have information about SES levels for individual students? Do you also know which of those high-SES students might have 504s or IEPs? Please do tell what data you are basing the above comment on.

Dude, you need to calm down. Yes, these are cursory numbers and they can easily be looked up online. Of course there will be outlying factors, but when you see the trend from school to school we see pattern, no?

[Anonymous]

Not the previous poster, but I think you might be a little sensitive on this point. I'm certain the teachers are wonderful. I truly don't think anyone on this thread thinks the teachers are the problem. My concern when I look at the scores ( which I know aren't the end all be all) is that when you break down along peer groups, there is still a gap. Upper SES kids in the struggling S Arl schools aren't performing as well as their north Arlington counter parts, and by a significant margin. It's about a 10 point difference. That doesn't completely scare me off from the schools, and I will send my kids to one of the poorest schools we have mentioned. I absolutely believe DH and I can pick up the slack at home, but it is clear that when schools are this over burdened with a majority of under privledged children, all of the students get slowed down. I don't see a way around it.
The county seems to think it's just fine, and are actively trying to increase those numbers. Maybe they know something we don't... But it seems more likely that they just want everything to be fine and for us to shut up about it.


How could you possibly know this? Do you work for APS that you have information about SES levels for individual students? Do you also know which of those high-SES students might have 504s or IEPs? Please do tell what data you are basing the above comment on.



Dude, you need to calm down. Yes, these are cursory numbers and they can easily be looked up online. Of course there will be outlying factors, but when you see the trend from school to school we see pattern, no?

This does not answer my questions. I am very aware of the data that can be accessed online, and none of it mentions SES levels. If you are going to make sweeping statements, you should be ready to back them up with data.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Not the previous poster, but I think you might be a little sensitive on this point. I'm certain the teachers are wonderful. I truly don't think anyone on this thread thinks the teachers are the problem. My concern when I look at the scores ( which I know aren't the end all be all) is that when you break down along peer groups, there is still a gap. Upper SES kids in the struggling S Arl schools aren't performing as well as their north Arlington counter parts, and by a significant margin. It's about a 10 point difference. That doesn't completely scare me off from the schools, and I will send my kids to one of the poorest schools we have mentioned. I absolutely believe DH and I can pick up the slack at home, but it is clear that when schools are this over burdened with a majority of under privledged children, all of the students get slowed down. I don't see a way around it.
The county seems to think it's just fine, and are actively trying to increase those numbers. Maybe they know something we don't... But it seems more likely that they just want everything to be fine and for us to shut up about it.


How could you possibly know this? Do you work for APS that you have information about SES levels for individual students? Do you also know which of those high-SES students might have 504s or IEPs? Please do tell what data you are basing the above comment on.



Dude, you need to calm down. Yes, these are cursory numbers and they can easily be looked up online. Of course there will be outlying factors, but when you see the trend from school to school we see pattern, no?

This does not answer my questions. I am very aware of the data that can be accessed online, and none of it mentions SES levels. If you are going to make sweeping statements, you should be ready to back them up with data.

Of course I am not talking about individual students. That's crazy. You can break the scores down by non disadvantaged kids online. You can break it down by language, sex, race... I'm certain there are outliers that aren't accounted for- since we are talking about percentages of students not individuals.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Not the previous poster, but I think you might be a little sensitive on this point. I'm certain the teachers are wonderful. I truly don't think anyone on this thread thinks the teachers are the problem. My concern when I look at the scores ( which I know aren't the end all be all) is that when you break down along peer groups, there is still a gap. Upper SES kids in the struggling S Arl schools aren't performing as well as their north Arlington counter parts, and by a significant margin. It's about a 10 point difference. That doesn't completely scare me off from the schools, and I will send my kids to one of the poorest schools we have mentioned. I absolutely believe DH and I can pick up the slack at home, but it is clear that when schools are this over burdened with a majority of under privledged children, all of the students get slowed down. I don't see a way around it.
The county seems to think it's just fine, and are actively trying to increase those numbers. Maybe they know something we don't... But it seems more likely that they just want everything to be fine and for us to shut up about it.


How could you possibly know this? Do you work for APS that you have information about SES levels for individual students? Do you also know which of those high-SES students might have 504s or IEPs? Please do tell what data you are basing the above comment on.



Dude, you need to calm down. Yes, these are cursory numbers and they can easily be looked up online. Of course there will be outlying factors, but when you see the trend from school to school we see pattern, no?

This does not answer my questions. I am very aware of the data that can be accessed online, and none of it mentions SES levels. If you are going to make sweeping statements, you should be ready to back them up with data.

Of course I am not talking about individual students. That's crazy. You can break the scores down by non disadvantaged kids online. You can break it down by language, sex, race... I'm certain there are outliers that aren't accounted for- since we are talking about percentages of students not individuals.

Also I wrote 10 point difference above, but that wasn't very accurate. Really I should have written 5-10 points.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A lot of misinformation on this board. Barcroft's scores for non disadvantaged students are not far off those of other schools in the county in the core subjects of reading, writing, math.

I just looked this up and it appears you may be correct. However, I couldn't even find data for the disadvantaged kids on some of the North Arlington schools- so that's weird. I just quickly compares two schools. I'll be interested to see what is said at the meeting, because they seem to have numbers disputing that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UGH. I swear. I am a "middle class" white woman and live in a neighborhood zoned for Barcroft. My kids attend another APS elementary school with similar numbers of kids on free and reduced lunch and I am embarrassed that some of my neighbors are acting this way. Maybe those folks should move to N. Arl. where they'll fit in better.

I have never, ever felt like APS or the county does not have my "middle class" children's best interest at heart. It actually really pisses me off that someone would say this.

I'd like for that poster to give me some concrete examples of "middle class" white kids getting the shaft and all the ways that Barcroft is struggling more than other schools. Is it because the test scores are low? Well, if that's the case then you don't really know anything about education.

Are kids getting hurt? Are their social and emotional needs not being met? Are classrooms out of control so no learning can take place? What exactly is going on?

My husband and I support affordable housing that is done right. I'm talking about communities built by APAH and AHC. They have the support systems in place to assist their residents both young and old because they team up with partners like Greenbrier Learning Center, The Reading Connection, Doorways for Women and Families, La Cocina Virginia, etc. It's the "market rate" affordable housing that I have a problem with. There are lots of problems in those communities and no support for residents. The kids who live in APAH and AHC communities do far better (for the most part) than those who do not.

Are there problems in APS overall?

In my opinion, there are tons. The overcrowding is a huge problem as is the focus on test scores as is the lack of free play and recess in elementary schools. I could go on and on. There are huge countywide problems. Let's not blame the kids on free and reduced lunch and their families.

The only bit of info relative in this post is that your kids don't attend Barcroft. Boy, you are very generous when it comes to the education of other people's kids. That's not a very impressive stance. This year has been very frustrating to the parents at Barcroft, and it's putting a strain on everyone. The squeaky wheel gets the grease in this county and we need to start making some noise. The above meeting isn't about affordable housing, its about it's concentration on the western end of the Pike. The county had committed to spreading it out evenly everywhere, giving lower SES families the best chance of upward mobility. They are now discussing abandoning those plans, because they were hard. Well, that is not acceptable. They are essentially creating a ghetto, and it needs to be put in check. There is a wealth of data out there about why concentrated poverty is terrible. Please do some homework. This isn't about farms kids being bad. Of course they aren't, but when there are too many special needs kids, it overwhelms the schools.
The few lower SES children in Norh Arlington score considerably better than their same peers at Barcroft. Oh, and guess what? There is gap between the upper middle class kids too, though not as dramatic.
No, testing isn't the end all be all. We all want our kids outside playing, and engaging in hands on learning. Not gonna happen while the school is stuffed to the gills and every inch of green space has a trailer on it.
These are very real problems, and calling me a racist or a classist isn't going to make them go away. It stops the coversation, and that's truly the ignorant stance. I'm a liberal, but I live in the real world. I believe in discussing real problems, and working to find solutions that benefit everyone- not just looking for political talking points and an easy way out for the board.
- S. Arl parent

You're not a liberal. You're a hypocrite. You got on up-poster for being liberal because of her altruistic stance that affected your kids- not hers. You're just as bad. You want the liberal title, except you don't sound very liberal when it comes to children in need in your community. Suddenly, you're a tea party realist. So nationally as a liberal you support policies that are damaging kids' education across the country- until it's in your backyard. What you are is a Nimby.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UGH. I swear. I am a "middle class" white woman and live in a neighborhood zoned for Barcroft. My kids attend another APS elementary school with similar numbers of kids on free and reduced lunch and I am embarrassed that some of my neighbors are acting this way. Maybe those folks should move to N. Arl. where they'll fit in better.

I have never, ever felt like APS or the county does not have my "middle class" children's best interest at heart. It actually really pisses me off that someone would say this.

I'd like for that poster to give me some concrete examples of "middle class" white kids getting the shaft and all the ways that Barcroft is struggling more than other schools. Is it because the test scores are low? Well, if that's the case then you don't really know anything about education.

Are kids getting hurt? Are their social and emotional needs not being met? Are classrooms out of control so no learning can take place? What exactly is going on?

My husband and I support affordable housing that is done right. I'm talking about communities built by APAH and AHC. They have the support systems in place to assist their residents both young and old because they team up with partners like Greenbrier Learning Center, The Reading Connection, Doorways for Women and Families, La Cocina Virginia, etc. It's the "market rate" affordable housing that I have a problem with. There are lots of problems in those communities and no support for residents. The kids who live in APAH and AHC communities do far better (for the most part) than those who do not.

Are there problems in APS overall?

In my opinion, there are tons. The overcrowding is a huge problem as is the focus on test scores as is the lack of free play and recess in elementary schools. I could go on and on. There are huge countywide problems. Let's not blame the kids on free and reduced lunch and their families.

The only bit of info relative in this post is that your kids don't attend Barcroft. Boy, you are very generous when it comes to the education of other people's kids. That's not a very impressive stance. This year has been very frustrating to the parents at Barcroft, and it's putting a strain on everyone. The squeaky wheel gets the grease in this county and we need to start making some noise. The above meeting isn't about affordable housing, its about it's concentration on the western end of the Pike. The county had committed to spreading it out evenly everywhere, giving lower SES families the best chance of upward mobility. They are now discussing abandoning those plans, because they were hard. Well, that is not acceptable. They are essentially creating a ghetto, and it needs to be put in check. There is a wealth of data out there about why concentrated poverty is terrible. Please do some homework. This isn't about farms kids being bad. Of course they aren't, but when there are too many special needs kids, it overwhelms the schools.
The few lower SES children in Norh Arlington score considerably better than their same peers at Barcroft. Oh, and guess what? There is gap between the upper middle class kids too, though not as dramatic.
No, testing isn't the end all be all. We all want our kids outside playing, and engaging in hands on learning. Not gonna happen while the school is stuffed to the gills and every inch of green space has a trailer on it.
These are very real problems, and calling me a racist or a classist isn't going to make them go away. It stops the coversation, and that's truly the ignorant stance. I'm a liberal, but I live in the real world. I believe in discussing real problems, and working to find solutions that benefit everyone- not just looking for political talking points and an easy way out for the board.
- S. Arl parent

You're not a liberal. You're a hypocrite. You got on up-poster for being liberal because of her altruistic stance that affected your kids- not hers. You're just as bad. You want the liberal title, except you don't sound very liberal when it comes to children in need in your community. Suddenly, you're a tea party realist. So nationally as a liberal you support policies that are damaging kids' education across the country- until it's in your backyard. What you are is a Nimby.

Ok.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UGH. I swear. I am a "middle class" white woman and live in a neighborhood zoned for Barcroft. My kids attend another APS elementary school with similar numbers of kids on free and reduced lunch and I am embarrassed that some of my neighbors are acting this way. Maybe those folks should move to N. Arl. where they'll fit in better.

I have never, ever felt like APS or the county does not have my "middle class" children's best interest at heart. It actually really pisses me off that someone would say this.

I'd like for that poster to give me some concrete examples of "middle class" white kids getting the shaft and all the ways that Barcroft is struggling more than other schools. Is it because the test scores are low? Well, if that's the case then you don't really know anything about education.

Are kids getting hurt? Are their social and emotional needs not being met? Are classrooms out of control so no learning can take place? What exactly is going on?

My husband and I support affordable housing that is done right. I'm talking about communities built by APAH and AHC. They have the support systems in place to assist their residents both young and old because they team up with partners like Greenbrier Learning Center, The Reading Connection, Doorways for Women and Families, La Cocina Virginia, etc. It's the "market rate" affordable housing that I have a problem with. There are lots of problems in those communities and no support for residents. The kids who live in APAH and AHC communities do far better (for the most part) than those who do not.

Are there problems in APS overall?

In my opinion, there are tons. The overcrowding is a huge problem as is the focus on test scores as is the lack of free play and recess in elementary schools. I could go on and on. There are huge countywide problems. Let's not blame the kids on free and reduced lunch and their families.

The only bit of info relative in this post is that your kids don't attend Barcroft. Boy, you are very generous when it comes to the education of other people's kids. That's not a very impressive stance. This year has been very frustrating to the parents at Barcroft, and it's putting a strain on everyone. The squeaky wheel gets the grease in this county and we need to start making some noise. The above meeting isn't about affordable housing, its about it's concentration on the western end of the Pike. The county had committed to spreading it out evenly everywhere, giving lower SES families the best chance of upward mobility. They are now discussing abandoning those plans, because they were hard. Well, that is not acceptable. They are essentially creating a ghetto, and it needs to be put in check. There is a wealth of data out there about why concentrated poverty is terrible. Please do some homework. This isn't about farms kids being bad. Of course they aren't, but when there are too many special needs kids, it overwhelms the schools.
The few lower SES children in Norh Arlington score considerably better than their same peers at Barcroft. Oh, and guess what? There is gap between the upper middle class kids too, though not as dramatic.
No, testing isn't the end all be all. We all want our kids outside playing, and engaging in hands on learning. Not gonna happen while the school is stuffed to the gills and every inch of green space has a trailer on it.
These are very real problems, and calling me a racist or a classist isn't going to make them go away. It stops the coversation, and that's truly the ignorant stance. I'm a liberal, but I live in the real world. I believe in discussing real problems, and working to find solutions that benefit everyone- not just looking for political talking points and an easy way out for the board.
- S. Arl parent

You're not a liberal. You're a hypocrite. You got on up-poster for being liberal because of her altruistic stance that affected your kids- not hers. You're just as bad. You want the liberal title, except you don't sound very liberal when it comes to children in need in your community. Suddenly, you're a tea party realist. So nationally as a liberal you support policies that are damaging kids' education across the country- until it's in your backyard. What you are is a Nimby.

Ok.

I love that you found this thread. It's become a bit of an echo chamber, and an opposing point of view is helpful.

Here is how I see the situation and the liberal view in this particular instance.


Engineers have a built a boat
It sets sail at 5pm
The boat holds 30 people
A specific lobbying group ( let's call them Boating Rights for Everyone- BRE) insists that 45 people must board the boat.
The engineers explain the boat will capsize if over 30 people board and all will drown.
BRE continues to insist that all 45 people must set sail by 5pm.

Engineers- we could build a second boat
BRE - will it be ready by 5pm?
Engineers- umm... Nope
BRE- completely unacceptable!
Engineers- ok... You can have all 45 on the boat, but everyone will drown.
BRE- Great 45 people it is!


All I'm saying is- let's take the time to build a second boat.