Need an outside perspective

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I woke up early to start working on a stock to make a family soup recipe. I bought the bones last night. Started cooking them today in a huge pot. I use a specific method for the stock, which is a bit time intensive, but it makes for a good, clean and milky delicious broth, with meat that falls off the bone. It was pretty much finished, after about 3 hours total of boiling/simmering.

I had to run out for an errand, and when I returned, I was shocked to see that my husband had thrown out the entire pot of stock. Hours of work out the window. I gasped and said “why did you throw out my stock?!”

He basically rolled his eyes and said I was overreacting and said my reaction was completely inappropriate. That I was acting like he killed somebody. Which made me even more upset. He said I was the one who left it unattended, and how was he was he to know that he wasn’t supposed to throw it out.

I said I was mad because I’d been working on it all morning and then for him to throw it out and then turn it around and blame me for it was really what made it a lot worse.

He said I was acting as if he did it to intentionally hurt or harm me, and that he didn’t want to argue about it, and that he’d talk to me about my communication issues when I was able to be rational and calm about it.

Everything he was saying was making me feel crazy. I feel destabilized. Why am I the villain in this?

What is happening here?

It sounds like you reacted hysterically and he got defensive.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Op here. This is unrelated, but I also need to learn how to deal with another scenario that makes me really uncomfortable.

Sometimes there is something I can sense my husband is very angry about, and has decided to talk to me about it in a “calm” manner. As one example, it might be about me not going to bed when he goes to bed.

But the way he approaches me with it kind of freaks me out. He asks to talk to me about a problem. He usually does this at work he most inopprtune time. Maybe when I’m stressed about an event I’m preparing for that evening and about to walk out the door.

He talks to me with very wide unblinking eyes. Which is unsettling to me. I laugh it off nervously or I might say “what’s wrong?”

And then he won’t let it go. And I can’t even respond appropriately because then I’m also upset at his terrible timing but don’t want to be insensitive to something that is obviously so upsetting to him and he takes seriously.

And then it’s some sort of discussion where I basically feel like I’m being controlled and he’s feeling disrespected.

But the whole thing is very uncomfortable for me. And I would like to learn a way to deal with that as well.

My husband does something similar to this and to the initial story in your OP. My husband also grew up in a chaotic home. He told me once during a heart to heart that it made him feel good when everyone around him was screaming and he was able to remain calm, and he did purposefully, if somewhat unconsciously, create these situations.

What works for us in the situation you describe here is for me to respond to the actual situation, not just to his words. Your husband is acting angry. You know he’s angry. He knows he’s angry. It’s just the two of you in the room. There is no reason for you to pretend to buy into this whole “calm guy who just wants to have a conversation” charade. You know you aren’t going to have a productive conversation.

When he does this, say, “You seem mad. Why are you angrily asking me about my bedtime habits while I’m walking out the door?”

Then he can either explode (which he won’t do…his whole thing is that he’s the calm one), or he can back off.

If you want, when he says that he isn’t actually angry, you can let him save face a little and say that he doesn’t understand “tone” or how he’s “coming across to other people.” But don’t fall into a thing where you are trying to “prove” that he was acting angry. Because that’s BS and it untethers both of you from reality.

That’s interesting. It makes sense. Thank you for validating too, because it’s hard to describe. I wish there was a word for this behavior so I could look up how to handle it.

When it happens to you, is it really upsetting? I get so upset. Because it feels so purposeful in throwing me off, like sabotage, catching me at the worst time, and then the weird game of “I’m just calmly discussing your issue” when it’s very clear to me he’s upset.

I guess it’s him unconsciously wanting me to feel as bad as he does. It feels uncomfortable just thinking about it. He gets really weird is all I can say. And he is unaware of any of it which makes it that much harder to address. And I end up sounding a little crazy just attempting to describe it, because on the surface, he didn’t do anything wrong.

Yes. It feels scary and upsetting. That’s how I know that he’s doing this and it isn’t a normal conversation. Because yes, the words are normal.

I think this article does a pretty good job of describing the behavior. The author is racist and sexist (by 2010 standards…not as bad as 2025 racism), but if you can get past that, there are some pearls of truth in what he has to say.

https://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2010/09/when_was_the_last_time_you_got.html

Also, you know, you don’t have to stay in this marriage and do all of this. You aren’t his therapist or his social worker. You don’t have to live your life on edge.

OMFG. OP doesn't "live her life on edge". OP goes out and does as she pleases (without communicating) and then flies off the handle at her spouse for making what seems to have been an honest mistake.

If anything, OP's spouse is the one who has to walk on eggshells and live his life on edge. All y'all supporting the troll are part of the problem.

Pp you are responding to. Maybe “walking on eggshells” was too much. I was writing out a couple specific examples of when DH came to me acting “calm” but with an underlying threatening tone and how I handled it to diffuse the situation.
Looking at it, it looked kind of crazy to keep diffusing situations and calling him out all of the time. I’m not sure that I want to advise anyone else to do this. So, I deleted it.

I just wanted to write that OP doesn’t have to stay in this. There are plenty of people who have marriages that aren’t full of drama and are pretty similar to their other relationships.

I mean, sure, OP can leave. Anyone can leave. Some people should. But I don't know that OP leaving solves the problem OP's having. OP seems complicit in her own unhappiness in a few ways that are obvious on this thread (and probably several more that she's not admitting). OP will bring the drama with her if/when she leaves, because she's probably the one starting most of it, and is definitely part of it.

Leaving may solve the problem you're having with a specific person by removing them from your vicinity. If the problem is how you overreact, project, accuse, etc., you'll find that same problem in other relationships, because it's your problem, and you bring it with you.

I’m the pp. The problem was not that I overreacted, but that I underreacted. I went by his script that we were just having a calm conversation when I knew we weren’t. What worked for us wasn’t for me to hide my emotions or stop accusing, but for me to trust my emotions and call DH out when he was pretending to be “calm.”

I mean, eff that. You don’t need to act like you are having a reasonable conversation when he’s clearly being aggressive and keeping you from something you need to do or trying to rehash an old argument.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Had you left the stove on with the pot still simmering on it but not told him OR

Did he come downstairs to a pot that was not on the stove and full of a murky, dirty looking liquid?

Was he cleaning up the kitchen?

I know everyone thinks that every husband is an abuser and psychobabble gets thrown around - and you have written this in a way that ensures that happens. Would he write it the same way? Without being a fly on the wall, I take all these my husband is the worst human on the planet and I am an absolute saint who never does anything wrong but he treats me like he is Satan himself posts with a gran of salt.

When men complain about abusive wives, the responses are always that only abusers complain about being abused and that the one saying they are abused is the abuser and is responsible.

It was on the stove cooling after I had just turned it ofd. I believe he honestly did not know I was making stock and so he dumped it out. That is frustrating but easy to forgive. The part I found infuriating was his reaction.

His reaction to how YOU handled his mistake?

Um, he didn’t even say he was sorry.

Um, you were wanting a sorry for something he did on accident. Which is fine, I will apologize for things I didn't mean to do when they have an unintended outcome, but if I stepped on someone's toe and before I knew I had done it they got mad at me about it I think I'd have a much different reaction than if I knew I did it and could say I was sorry before they spoke.

You have some anger issues.

I mean, people get mad when you demean them or keep them from doing something that’s important to them. So if you stepped on someone’s toe hard enough that they can’t just keep walking and doing whatever they were doing, then they are going to be mad.
They aren’t trying to belittle you by not letting you apologize first before they get mad. They aren’t terrible people for not “taking a deep breath and calibrating their response.” Just say you are sorry and ask if you can help.

Actually, I don't have anger issues but thanks for your internet diagnoses...

Stepping on someone's toe isn't demeaning someone. Neither is throwing out stock sitting on the stove, by the way.

Maybe you have a hard time distinguishing between feelings and actions. You can FEEL mad that someone stepped on your toe. (Weird, by the way, that you're accusing me of having anger issues when I don't think it would occur to me to be MAD at someone who stepped on my toe on accident). But ACTING mad at someone for doing something like that on accident isn't really acceptable. Of course they should apologize for stepping on your toe because they did it even though it wasn't intentional. And it hurt you, so they should say they're sorry. But the fact that you think it's ok for someone to act mad at someone for stepping on their toe shows me that you're the one who should probably seek help.

Well, as I said in the post you responded to, it would only be reasonable for people to be mad if you stepped on their toe so hard that it kept them from continuing to walk and go about their day.

And yes. It’s reasonable to be mad if someone keeps you from doing something important to you, even if it’s unintentional.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Op here. This is unrelated, but I also need to learn how to deal with another scenario that makes me really uncomfortable.

Sometimes there is something I can sense my husband is very angry about, and has decided to talk to me about it in a “calm” manner. As one example, it might be about me not going to bed when he goes to bed.

But the way he approaches me with it kind of freaks me out. He asks to talk to me about a problem. He usually does this at work he most inopprtune time. Maybe when I’m stressed about an event I’m preparing for that evening and about to walk out the door.

He talks to me with very wide unblinking eyes. Which is unsettling to me. I laugh it off nervously or I might say “what’s wrong?”

And then he won’t let it go. And I can’t even respond appropriately because then I’m also upset at his terrible timing but don’t want to be insensitive to something that is obviously so upsetting to him and he takes seriously.

And then it’s some sort of discussion where I basically feel like I’m being controlled and he’s feeling disrespected.

But the whole thing is very uncomfortable for me. And I would like to learn a way to deal with that as well.

My husband does something similar to this and to the initial story in your OP. My husband also grew up in a chaotic home. He told me once during a heart to heart that it made him feel good when everyone around him was screaming and he was able to remain calm, and he did purposefully, if somewhat unconsciously, create these situations.

What works for us in the situation you describe here is for me to respond to the actual situation, not just to his words. Your husband is acting angry. You know he’s angry. He knows he’s angry. It’s just the two of you in the room. There is no reason for you to pretend to buy into this whole “calm guy who just wants to have a conversation” charade. You know you aren’t going to have a productive conversation.

When he does this, say, “You seem mad. Why are you angrily asking me about my bedtime habits while I’m walking out the door?”

Then he can either explode (which he won’t do…his whole thing is that he’s the calm one), or he can back off.

If you want, when he says that he isn’t actually angry, you can let him save face a little and say that he doesn’t understand “tone” or how he’s “coming across to other people.” But don’t fall into a thing where you are trying to “prove” that he was acting angry. Because that’s BS and it untethers both of you from reality.

That’s interesting. It makes sense. Thank you for validating too, because it’s hard to describe. I wish there was a word for this behavior so I could look up how to handle it.

When it happens to you, is it really upsetting? I get so upset. Because it feels so purposeful in throwing me off, like sabotage, catching me at the worst time, and then the weird game of “I’m just calmly discussing your issue” when it’s very clear to me he’s upset.

I guess it’s him unconsciously wanting me to feel as bad as he does. It feels uncomfortable just thinking about it. He gets really weird is all I can say. And he is unaware of any of it which makes it that much harder to address. And I end up sounding a little crazy just attempting to describe it, because on the surface, he didn’t do anything wrong.

Yes. It feels scary and upsetting. That’s how I know that he’s doing this and it isn’t a normal conversation. Because yes, the words are normal.

I think this article does a pretty good job of describing the behavior. The author is racist and sexist (by 2010 standards…not as bad as 2025 racism), but if you can get past that, there are some pearls of truth in what he has to say.

https://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2010/09/when_was_the_last_time_you_got.html

Also, you know, you don’t have to stay in this marriage and do all of this. You aren’t his therapist or his social worker. You don’t have to live your life on edge.

OMFG. OP doesn't "live her life on edge". OP goes out and does as she pleases (without communicating) and then flies off the handle at her spouse for making what seems to have been an honest mistake.

If anything, OP's spouse is the one who has to walk on eggshells and live his life on edge. All y'all supporting the troll are part of the problem.

Pp you are responding to. Maybe “walking on eggshells” was too much. I was writing out a couple specific examples of when DH came to me acting “calm” but with an underlying threatening tone and how I handled it to diffuse the situation.
Looking at it, it looked kind of crazy to keep diffusing situations and calling him out all of the time. I’m not sure that I want to advise anyone else to do this. So, I deleted it.

I just wanted to write that OP doesn’t have to stay in this. There are plenty of people who have marriages that aren’t full of drama and are pretty similar to their other relationships.

I mean, sure, OP can leave. Anyone can leave. Some people should. But I don't know that OP leaving solves the problem OP's having. OP seems complicit in her own unhappiness in a few ways that are obvious on this thread (and probably several more that she's not admitting). OP will bring the drama with her if/when she leaves, because she's probably the one starting most of it, and is definitely part of it.

Leaving may solve the problem you're having with a specific person by removing them from your vicinity. If the problem is how you overreact, project, accuse, etc., you'll find that same problem in other relationships, because it's your problem, and you bring it with you.

I’m the pp. The problem was not that I overreacted, but that I underreacted. I went by his script that we were just having a calm conversation when I knew we weren’t. What worked for us wasn’t for me to hide my emotions or stop accusing, but for me to trust my emotions and call DH out when he was pretending to be “calm.”

I mean, eff that. You don’t need to act like you are having a reasonable conversation when he’s clearly being aggressive and keeping you from something you need to do or trying to rehash an old argument.

OP here. This thread has gotten way longer than I intended, and thank you all for indulging me... but I've been thinking about it, and I think I figured out what's going for this particular issue.

DH's default reaction is to lash out in anger or gaslight. His dad was a rager, and his mom was a weeper and a really good gaslighter. We worked on the rage, and he no longer unleashes on me, because he's learned it's hurtful to me.

I'm very familiar with rage/anger, but I'm unfamiliar with gaslighting and so that part I am just figuring out now after so many years of being perplexed by it.

I think DH works really hard to suppress/check his anger with me, and maybe that's why he comes off that way. I'm also an empath. I sense what people are feeling before they say anything by the look on their face.

Also, my dad was always extremely controlled, serious, and calm. He was calm as he called us over, to have a "talk" with us, right before he started beating us. So that calm, cool, lead up, was pretty frightening to me as a child.

It's probably why I find DH's approach so unsettling and uncomfortable. I am on edge. I'm realizing now that's the root of the issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I woke up early to start working on a stock to make a family soup recipe. I bought the bones last night. Started cooking them today in a huge pot. I use a specific method for the stock, which is a bit time intensive, but it makes for a good, clean and milky delicious broth, with meat that falls off the bone. It was pretty much finished, after about 3 hours total of boiling/simmering.

I had to run out for an errand, and when I returned, I was shocked to see that my husband had thrown out the entire pot of stock. Hours of work out the window. I gasped and said “why did you throw out my stock?!”

He basically rolled his eyes and said I was overreacting and said my reaction was completely inappropriate. That I was acting like he killed somebody. Which made me even more upset. He said I was the one who left it unattended, and how was he was he to know that he wasn’t supposed to throw it out.

I said I was mad because I’d been working on it all morning and then for him to throw it out and then turn it around and blame me for it was really what made it a lot worse.

He said I was acting as if he did it to intentionally hurt or harm me, and that he didn’t want to argue about it, and that he’d talk to me about my communication issues when I was able to be rational and calm about it.

Everything he was saying was making me feel crazy. I feel destabilized. Why am I the villain in this?

What is happening here?

Your cooking is probably terrible and he threw it out so he wouldn't have to eat it.

Also, finish the job and put the soup pot away before you go prancing off.

You women are always ranting about how the men never help with kitchen clean up.

He helped.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Advice appreciated on how to bring up this issue in a mature way.

This crap keeps happening, and I. Front of our kids. And everytime, I’m just so flabbergasted and he gets me furious that I can’t even respond clearly and appropriately about the tactics he is using that is so upsetting to me.

1. Establish a new rule--wife is 100% solely responsible for all kitchen duties.

2. Wife will never, ever, ever,ever, EVER complaint if husband leaves dirty plates, dishes, or pots and pans lying around.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand what OP should have communicated to her husband here.

If I had a pot of stock on the stove, I might tell DH before I run out that I have something on the stove, I might not, depending on how long the errand takes. He probably would have been in the kitchen with me at some point and I would have told him about it.

But I would never expect that an adult man would just throw out a pot of food on the stove without asking what I'm doing. That behavior makes no sense, unless her DH either A. hates the soup she is making and is malicious enough to throw it out instead of telling her not to make it, B. is a psychopath trying to upset her and make her feel crazy.

There has to be more to this story.

It wasn't a "pot of food." It was a pot of old soup bones.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He was nice enough to do dishes.

He made a mistake.

You acted like he did it on purpose.

He got defensive.

You got defensive.

Should have…

Did u clean the pot?
Yes.

Omg I made stock for dinner and it was cooling in the broth. (You don’t assume he knows)

Then he should be like holy sh!t, sorry.

Then you can be sad /bummed/etc but move on.

To clarify, he strained the bones and meat out and saved those. Just threw out all the broth. I think he assumes I was just cooking the bones and meat and not intending to keep the stock.

OK OP, so you deliberately either lied or left out critical context in your original post. He didn't willy nilly throw out the whole pot of whatever witches brew you were concocting. He actually went to a considerable amount of trouble to save the portions he thought were edible, given you did not ever include him in whatever your plan for the broth/soup was.

Sounds like you're the narcissist, dearie.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This exact script has played out many times in our relationship in one form or other. Although we've talked it out, I admit I still don't feel 100% better and I notice that I'm just not myself and I can't just immediately go back to being warm and loving to him. The fact that it repeats, feels like reopening a half-healed wound, and it triggers a lot of old hurt and frustration for me.

It's a vicious cycle that has been repeating, due to our differences and incompatibilities. Maybe I veer to being a control freak in certain areas (like meal prep), and maybe HE veers towards the opposite end, combined with carelessness. And then add to that formula - we both have incompatible and immature communication styles to work out the inevitable conflict that our differences cause.

We both have had to change and compromise a LOT on just basic household management stuff, because of our differences and incompatibilities. And we have problem solved around many of our incompatibilities.

If we were just talking about the stock and there was no prior history, maybe this wouldn't have even been a thing. But when he throws out something of mine, that is definitely an old wound for me. And even though logically I know he does it unintentionally, in the moment, it FEELS very aggressive and like a violation to me, and then my whole body feels primed in preparation for him to deny doing it, painting me as "crazy" for making a big deal out of nothing, turning it around on me, and finally him crying and saying I think he's such a horrible person.

I feel like I was able to articulate clearly about this behavior that really upsets me, for the first time yesterday.
And I do think he was able to SEE it for the first time.
And I do think he does it automatically and unconsciously whenever he feels criticized.
And I do think he is extra sensitive to criticism because he's received it all his life, because he does struggle with things that most people typically do not....
...Things like hearing the exact opposite of what was said, or doing the exact opposite of what most people do, or simply not understanding the millions of assumptions that people take for granted, being clumsy or absent-minded and breaking/dropping/misplacing/discarding things, not knowing expectations and assumptions that most people take for granted, and for the most part, simply living by his own unique rules.

I am wary of bringing this up, because he is no longer the person he was when we first met, and I don't want to get stuck in the past. But as just one example how far we've come and to illustrate where we started: At the beginning of our relationship, I literally had to spell out for him and convince him why I didn't like being called a "f-ing B" when we were disagreeing, and it took years of convincing him that the goal of our disagreements wasn't to win at all costs. He thought, isn't that the whole point of fighting, to win? I had to sit down and teach him that yes, you might shut me down and win in the moment, but that also has a very expensive cost to the relationship. He did that with his family members too, until I taught him not to.

I recognize my part in perpetuating this cycle too. But all of the above is part of the reason that this is a work in progress for me.

There's your real problem. The first time someone called me that, I would have rolled. I'm not spending my life with anyone who thinks it's ok to do this, or with someone who has to have it explained to him. You made your bed and now are lying in it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He was nice enough to do dishes.

He made a mistake.

You acted like he did it on purpose.

He got defensive.

You got defensive.

Should have…

Did u clean the pot?
Yes.

Omg I made stock for dinner and it was cooling in the broth. (You don’t assume he knows)

Then he should be like holy sh!t, sorry.

Then you can be sad /bummed/etc but move on.

To clarify, he strained the bones and meat out and saved those. Just threw out all the broth. I think he assumes I was just cooking the bones and meat and not intending to keep the stock.

OK OP, so you deliberately either lied or left out critical context in your original post. He didn't willy nilly throw out the whole pot of whatever witches brew you were concocting. He actually went to a considerable amount of trouble to save the portions he thought were edible, given you did not ever include him in whatever your plan for the broth/soup was.

Sounds like you're the narcissist, dearie.

" a good, clean and milky delicious broth" Milky? That actually sounds gross. Maybe he thinks so too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I usually hate this term, but he is 100% gaslighting you. Agree with PP above, I’d be surprised if this came out of nowhere. Is this how he usually acts?

That’s what it feels like to me. And he paints this picture of himself how he is totally calm and rational, and how I sound- he literally acts out what I sound like and I wish I could have recorded and played it back to you, because it’s some really gross mischaracerization projected at his top volume.

It is crazy making.

He has always done this after he makes a mistake and I get upset about it.

He won’t apologize but just blames me and makes me out to be some crazy person with major communication issues when some deep seated issues that is trying to paint him as a horrible person who is trying to hurt me and do terrible things. When I have never said anything close to that.

We throw the divorce card around far too easily on this board but this guy has a major screw loose and it sounds like you’ve been dealing with this for awhile.

He didn’t make a mistake. This was on purpose, what’s not clear is why he did it.

Ugh don’t say that. I was just getting to a point where I could gain back control of this by working on my part of the problem. I really would rather you be totally wrong and I hope you’re wrong.

Look at yourself OP. You went nuclear over a friggin pot of soup. (If broth made from old bones can be called "soup.")

Maybe $10 worth of broth or chicken stock if you were to buy it from a deli or whole foods or whatever kind of places makes that stuff.

$10, OP.

$10.

You're the problem OP. Totally. I feel sorry for your husband.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op again. Here’s a funny story about his “verbal dyslexia”. So I used to do all our taxes, except he hated how I used to always wait to the last minute. I never missed the deadline but he got stressed about it, he wanted it done in January.

So one year we decided he would do it. Except he filed our taxes as married filing separately. Thinking that it meant the opposite.

So we didn’t know this until many months later, long past the tax deadline.

Anyway it was a huge PITA, because then I had to file separately and I had essentially filed late, for the first time.

O.K., this has got to be complete B.S. So, OP, you're saying you didn't bother to actually proof read the tax return prepared by your husband in January before it was filed? Or within 3 years after it was filed so you could have filed amended returns MFJ?

Nope the entire thread is B.S.

[Anonymous]

OP, you should read this thread:
https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1296992.page