St Albans vs Sidwell

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:New poster here. We are very interested in St. Albans. The next entry year for us would be 7 and then 9th. We are very happy in our parochial catholic school and plan to be there through 8th grade. What are the benefits to applying in 7th vs. 9th? For those with kids at the school, would love to hear your experience at the middle school level and high school level.

If you're set on STA, the one advantage to applying in 7th is getting two chances at a spot. My son and several others we know applied twice (7th and 9th). My kid had straight As, travel sport, arts extracurriculars, etc but 7th grade spots our year were almost all hooked kids (siblings, legacy, etc). He applied again in 9th and got in. Others years may have more unhooked spots available for 7th--it varies a lot. You won't know until you apply because STA (or any school) isn't going to come out and tell you this but if you end up joining a class you're figure out who joined and when.

I think the middle school experience is pretty rigorous but my kid did fine joining the school in 9th from public (even from virtual learning in public). If we could do it all over again I would have loved to have sent him earlier simply because we really like the school and it's been fantastic for him! The 4 years of high school go very quickly. That said, he is still quite good friends with his middle school friends (who now all attend different high schools) and it's very nice to have these friends and social world. The kids who join earlier have their STA friends and that's it. I will say the negative of this on the 9th grade end is that it can take a year or so to make friends. I feel like girls (I have one of them) hit a new school and immediately want to connect. Boys warm up to each other over time and shared experiences. It took my son until 10th grade to really find his people. It's also more difficult to enter an "ongoing" class in 9th grade. I can be easier for boys to enter a high school where everyone is new in 9th.

Thanks so much for sharing this information. I really appreciate it. Did you find that your son was behind/had to play catch up on anything starting in 9th? Do you recall how many new students joined in 9th in the year your son started?

He was definitely a bit behind in English (especially writing) but he came from virtual public. I'm not sure he could have learned less in this regard during middle school (in public). That said, he caught up and in general his grades are really good.
There are about 20-25 kids added to the grade in 9th, depending on the year.

Thank you. If I may ask one more question?

Could you share the top three things you love about the school. We haven't toured it yet, but I've been following the school via their website updates and videos for years, and the school really pulls on my heart strings. It seems so very intentional in its approach. We are also considering boarding school, but this is one of the schools in this area that might change our mind on pursuing the boarding school route (both my husband and I went to boarding schools in the US and England, respectively, hence the reason we are open to boarding schools).

You could board at STA if you really wanted to.

Yes, I saw that. If we go the boarding school route, we'd want a school that is majority boarding. Something like St. Andrews School in Delaware or Lawrenceville in NJ (this of course is assuming he'd get in).

Boarding at STA may give you an admissions boost.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The reason why more presidential and vice presidential children have attended Sidwell is because the Secret Service found it easier to secure..

Sidwell may be better known because of the Obama girls but that doesn’t make it a better school. It’s cruising on its reputation. It has serious issues including a weak college counseling office. STA has its issues, too, but it is overall a better run school with stronger teachers in the Upper School.

I say that as a parent with kids at both schools. Sidwell needs to get its administrative act together and the HOS needs to stop with the blatant favoritism for politically connected families.

And yet the Secret Service managed to successfully secure St. Andrews for FOUR years[b].

The truth is the Clintons, Obamas, Nixons, Gores, Bidens, etc all chose the school that was best for their children. If they had wanted St. Andrews, GDS, Maret, etc the Secret Service would have made it work.
.

Are you stupid or something? St. Andrew’s is suburban and does not have the National Cathedral - which on purpose welcomes thousands of people to the Cathedral Close- sitting on its campus..

The Obamas wanted GDS but the Secret Service found the campuses difficult to secure because of the private housing that abuts both the Upper and what used to be the Lower School campus.

Security in the age of Nixon was a little different. Tricia Nixon attended Horace Mann, a public school. Amy Carter attended Stevens and Hardy. The Bidens have no school-age children.

Ah, the urban myth resurfaces. “The Obamas wanted GDS.”

If the Obamas had wanted GDS, the Obamas would have gotten GDS. They did not make that choice.

I heard they actually wanted NCS for their girls but security is difficult.

I was a door-knocker for the campaign. It was common knowledge (among those who were in the know, like us canvassers) that the order of preference was 1 GDS 2 NCS 3 SFS

Oh well here we go. The door knocker from 2008 tells all.

This is not correct. They could have picked any school in the city.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:New poster here. We are very interested in St. Albans. The next entry year for us would be 7 and then 9th. We are very happy in our parochial catholic school and plan to be there through 8th grade. What are the benefits to applying in 7th vs. 9th? For those with kids at the school, would love to hear your experience at the middle school level and high school level.

If you're set on STA, the one advantage to applying in 7th is getting two chances at a spot. My son and several others we know applied twice (7th and 9th). My kid had straight As, travel sport, arts extracurriculars, etc but 7th grade spots our year were almost all hooked kids (siblings, legacy, etc). He applied again in 9th and got in. Others years may have more unhooked spots available for 7th--it varies a lot. You won't know until you apply because STA (or any school) isn't going to come out and tell you this but if you end up joining a class you're figure out who joined and when.

I think the middle school experience is pretty rigorous but my kid did fine joining the school in 9th from public (even from virtual learning in public). If we could do it all over again I would have loved to have sent him earlier simply because we really like the school and it's been fantastic for him! The 4 years of high school go very quickly. That said, he is still quite good friends with his middle school friends (who now all attend different high schools) and it's very nice to have these friends and social world. The kids who join earlier have their STA friends and that's it. I will say the negative of this on the 9th grade end is that it can take a year or so to make friends. I feel like girls (I have one of them) hit a new school and immediately want to connect. Boys warm up to each other over time and shared experiences. It took my son until 10th grade to really find his people. It's also more difficult to enter an "ongoing" class in 9th grade. I can be easier for boys to enter a high school where everyone is new in 9th.

NP. So let me get this straight. Your son started in 9th grade at STA and it took him more than a year to find friends? In a small school that is all boys?

I doubt that this is the message you intended to convey, but that is hardly a ringing endorsement of the school or the kids who attend.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:New poster here. We are very interested in St. Albans. The next entry year for us would be 7 and then 9th. We are very happy in our parochial catholic school and plan to be there through 8th grade. What are the benefits to applying in 7th vs. 9th? For those with kids at the school, would love to hear your experience at the middle school level and high school level.

If you're set on STA, the one advantage to applying in 7th is getting two chances at a spot. My son and several others we know applied twice (7th and 9th). My kid had straight As, travel sport, arts extracurriculars, etc but 7th grade spots our year were almost all hooked kids (siblings, legacy, etc). He applied again in 9th and got in. Others years may have more unhooked spots available for 7th--it varies a lot. You won't know until you apply because STA (or any school) isn't going to come out and tell you this but if you end up joining a class you're figure out who joined and when.

I think the middle school experience is pretty rigorous but my kid did fine joining the school in 9th from public (even from virtual learning in public). If we could do it all over again I would have loved to have sent him earlier simply because we really like the school and it's been fantastic for him! The 4 years of high school go very quickly. That said, he is still quite good friends with his middle school friends (who now all attend different high schools) and it's very nice to have these friends and social world. The kids who join earlier have their STA friends and that's it. I will say the negative of this on the 9th grade end is that it can take a year or so to make friends. I feel like girls (I have one of them) hit a new school and immediately want to connect. Boys warm up to each other over time and shared experiences. It took my son until 10th grade to really find his people. It's also more difficult to enter an "ongoing" class in 9th grade. I can be easier for boys to enter a high school where everyone is new in 9th.

NP. So let me get this straight. Your son started in 9th grade at STA and it took him more than a year to find friends? In a small school that is all boys?

I doubt that this is the message you intended to convey, but that is hardly a ringing endorsement of the school or the kids who attend.

This is not unusual at all. It was the same experience for kids I know at Gonzaga, STJ, Sidwell, etc. It's not easy to make friendships in high school (friends that you do things with outside of school). Kids are super busy with academics, sports, etc. My daughter is at NCS and I have friends whose daughters joined in 9th and still don't feel connected to anyone 1 or 2 years later. It can be tough when you change schools for high school. It's kind of luck-of-the-draw. Do you end up in classes with kids you really click with? That's one of the downsides of the small (15) class sizes of these schools. By the end of freshman year you may have never really met half the class even if it's only a class of 80.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:New poster here. We are very interested in St. Albans. The next entry year for us would be 7 and then 9th. We are very happy in our parochial catholic school and plan to be there through 8th grade. What are the benefits to applying in 7th vs. 9th? For those with kids at the school, would love to hear your experience at the middle school level and high school level.

If you're set on STA, the one advantage to applying in 7th is getting two chances at a spot. My son and several others we know applied twice (7th and 9th). My kid had straight As, travel sport, arts extracurriculars, etc but 7th grade spots our year were almost all hooked kids (siblings, legacy, etc). He applied again in 9th and got in. Others years may have more unhooked spots available for 7th--it varies a lot. You won't know until you apply because STA (or any school) isn't going to come out and tell you this but if you end up joining a class you're figure out who joined and when.

I think the middle school experience is pretty rigorous but my kid did fine joining the school in 9th from public (even from virtual learning in public). If we could do it all over again I would have loved to have sent him earlier simply because we really like the school and it's been fantastic for him! The 4 years of high school go very quickly. That said, he is still quite good friends with his middle school friends (who now all attend different high schools) and it's very nice to have these friends and social world. The kids who join earlier have their STA friends and that's it. I will say the negative of this on the 9th grade end is that it can take a year or so to make friends. I feel like girls (I have one of them) hit a new school and immediately want to connect. Boys warm up to each other over time and shared experiences. It took my son until 10th grade to really find his people. It's also more difficult to enter an "ongoing" class in 9th grade. I can be easier for boys to enter a high school where everyone is new in 9th.

NP. So let me get this straight. Your son started in 9th grade at STA and it took him more than a year to find friends? In a small school that is all boys?

I doubt that this is the message you intended to convey, but that is hardly a ringing endorsement of the school or the kids who attend.

This is not unusual at all. It was the same experience for kids I know at Gonzaga, STJ, Sidwell, etc. It's not easy to make friendships in high school (friends that you do things with outside of school). Kids are super busy with academics, sports, etc. My daughter is at NCS and I have friends whose daughters joined in 9th and still don't feel connected to anyone 1 or 2 years later. It can be tough when you change schools for high school. It's kind of luck-of-the-draw. Do you end up in classes with kids you really click with? That's one of the downsides of the small (15) class sizes of these schools. By the end of freshman year you may have never really met half the class even if it's only a class of 80.

Interesting. Wasn’t the case at all with my kids, who are at schools that you name here. Those schools perhaps worked harder to make sure that incoming 9th graders more immediately felt at home.

Glad that it eventually worked out for your son at STA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:New poster here. We are very interested in St. Albans. The next entry year for us would be 7 and then 9th. We are very happy in our parochial catholic school and plan to be there through 8th grade. What are the benefits to applying in 7th vs. 9th? For those with kids at the school, would love to hear your experience at the middle school level and high school level.

If you're set on STA, the one advantage to applying in 7th is getting two chances at a spot. My son and several others we know applied twice (7th and 9th). My kid had straight As, travel sport, arts extracurriculars, etc but 7th grade spots our year were almost all hooked kids (siblings, legacy, etc). He applied again in 9th and got in. Others years may have more unhooked spots available for 7th--it varies a lot. You won't know until you apply because STA (or any school) isn't going to come out and tell you this but if you end up joining a class you're figure out who joined and when.

I think the middle school experience is pretty rigorous but my kid did fine joining the school in 9th from public (even from virtual learning in public). If we could do it all over again I would have loved to have sent him earlier simply because we really like the school and it's been fantastic for him! The 4 years of high school go very quickly. That said, he is still quite good friends with his middle school friends (who now all attend different high schools) and it's very nice to have these friends and social world. The kids who join earlier have their STA friends and that's it. I will say the negative of this on the 9th grade end is that it can take a year or so to make friends. I feel like girls (I have one of them) hit a new school and immediately want to connect. Boys warm up to each other over time and shared experiences. It took my son until 10th grade to really find his people. It's also more difficult to enter an "ongoing" class in 9th grade. I can be easier for boys to enter a high school where everyone is new in 9th.

NP. So let me get this straight. Your son started in 9th grade at STA and it took him more than a year to find friends? In a small school that is all boys?

I doubt that this is the message you intended to convey, but that is hardly a ringing endorsement of the school or the kids who attend.

I think this is more common than you think. It's not always easy to find a new group at a new school and it depends a lot on the cohort. It's often not until 10th grade where they feel settled in.

This was also more of a problem in COVID years. My DS started in 9th (not at STA) and then COVID hit in March before spring sports. Then they were out of school until the second half of 10th grade - when activities remained limited. They had friends all along but didn't feel fully settled into a friend group until 11th.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The reason why more presidential and vice presidential children have attended Sidwell is because the Secret Service found it easier to secure..

Sidwell may be better known because of the Obama girls but that doesn’t make it a better school. It’s cruising on its reputation. It has serious issues including a weak college counseling office. STA has its issues, too, but it is overall a better run school with stronger teachers in the Upper School.

I say that as a parent with kids at both schools. Sidwell needs to get its administrative act together and the HOS needs to stop with the blatant favoritism for politically connected families.

And yet the Secret Service managed to successfully secure St. Andrews for FOUR years[b].

The truth is the Clintons, Obamas, Nixons, Gores, Bidens, etc all chose the school that was best for their children. If they had wanted St. Andrews, GDS, Maret, etc the Secret Service would have made it work.
.

Are you stupid or something? St. Andrew’s is suburban and does not have the National Cathedral - which on purpose welcomes thousands of people to the Cathedral Close- sitting on its campus..

The Obamas wanted GDS but the Secret Service found the campuses difficult to secure because of the private housing that abuts both the Upper and what used to be the Lower School campus.

Security in the age of Nixon was a little different. Tricia Nixon attended Horace Mann, a public school. Amy Carter attended Stevens and Hardy. The Bidens have no school-age children.

Ah, the urban myth resurfaces. “The Obamas wanted GDS.”

If the Obamas had wanted GDS, the Obamas would have gotten GDS. They did not make that choice.

I heard they actually wanted NCS for their girls but security is difficult.

I was a door-knocker for the campaign. It was common knowledge (among those who were in the know, like us canvassers) that the order of preference was 1 GDS 2 NCS 3 SFS

Oh well here we go. The door knocker from 2008 tells all.

This is not correct. They could have picked any school in the city.

No actually they could not have selected any school. The Cathedral schools is just not safe for a president and they are hands on parents and would be at the school more often than others and it would shut down three schools normal routine every time they came to the school.

Yes heard they really loved GDS and NCS as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:New poster here. We are very interested in St. Albans. The next entry year for us would be 7 and then 9th. We are very happy in our parochial catholic school and plan to be there through 8th grade. What are the benefits to applying in 7th vs. 9th? For those with kids at the school, would love to hear your experience at the middle school level and high school level.

k

Are you in 6th now? I hear that is a very tough class of parents. It can make a difference in your experience at a school like STA where parents are very hands on in parties and activities all the way through….

What? Sixth is a particularly nice group.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The reason why more presidential and vice presidential children have attended Sidwell is because the Secret Service found it easier to secure..

Sidwell may be better known because of the Obama girls but that doesn’t make it a better school. It’s cruising on its reputation. It has serious issues including a weak college counseling office. STA has its issues, too, but it is overall a better run school with stronger teachers in the Upper School.

I say that as a parent with kids at both schools. Sidwell needs to get its administrative act together and the HOS needs to stop with the blatant favoritism for politically connected families.

And yet the Secret Service managed to successfully secure St. Andrews for FOUR years[b].

The truth is the Clintons, Obamas, Nixons, Gores, Bidens, etc all chose the school that was best for their children. If they had wanted St. Andrews, GDS, Maret, etc the Secret Service would have made it work.
.

Are you stupid or something? St. Andrew’s is suburban and does not have the National Cathedral - which on purpose welcomes thousands of people to the Cathedral Close- sitting on its campus..

The Obamas wanted GDS but the Secret Service found the campuses difficult to secure because of the private housing that abuts both the Upper and what used to be the Lower School campus.

Security in the age of Nixon was a little different. Tricia Nixon attended Horace Mann, a public school. Amy Carter attended Stevens and Hardy. The Bidens have no school-age children.

Ah, the urban myth resurfaces. “The Obamas wanted GDS.”

If the Obamas had wanted GDS, the Obamas would have gotten GDS. They did not make that choice.

I heard they actually wanted NCS for their girls but security is difficult.

I was a door-knocker for the campaign. It was common knowledge (among those who were in the know, like us canvassers) that the order of preference was 1 GDS 2 NCS 3 SFS

Oh well here we go. The door knocker from 2008 tells all.

This is not correct. They could have picked any school in the city.

No actually they could not have selected any school. The Cathedral schools is just not safe for a president and they are hands on parents and would be at the school more often than others and it would shut down three schools normal routine every time they came to the school.

Yes heard they really loved GDS and NCS as well.

You heard wrong about NCS. The Obamas (and the Clintons) never even toured NCS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The reason why more presidential and vice presidential children have attended Sidwell is because the Secret Service found it easier to secure..

Sidwell may be better known because of the Obama girls but that doesn’t make it a better school. It’s cruising on its reputation. It has serious issues including a weak college counseling office. STA has its issues, too, but it is overall a better run school with stronger teachers in the Upper School.

I say that as a parent with kids at both schools. Sidwell needs to get its administrative act together and the HOS needs to stop with the blatant favoritism for politically connected families.

And yet the Secret Service managed to successfully secure St. Andrews for FOUR years[b].

The truth is the Clintons, Obamas, Nixons, Gores, Bidens, etc all chose the school that was best for their children. If they had wanted St. Andrews, GDS, Maret, etc the Secret Service would have made it work.
.

Are you stupid or something? St. Andrew’s is suburban and does not have the National Cathedral - which on purpose welcomes thousands of people to the Cathedral Close- sitting on its campus..

The Obamas wanted GDS but the Secret Service found the campuses difficult to secure because of the private housing that abuts both the Upper and what used to be the Lower School campus.

Security in the age of Nixon was a little different. Tricia Nixon attended Horace Mann, a public school. Amy Carter attended Stevens and Hardy. The Bidens have no school-age children.

Ah, the urban myth resurfaces. “The Obamas wanted GDS.”

If the Obamas had wanted GDS, the Obamas would have gotten GDS. They did not make that choice.

I heard they actually wanted NCS for their girls but security is difficult.

I was a door-knocker for the campaign. It was common knowledge (among those who were in the know, like us canvassers) that the order of preference was 1 GDS 2 NCS 3 SFS

Oh well here we go. The door knocker from 2008 tells all.

This is not correct. They could have picked any school in the city.

No actually they could not have selected any school. The Cathedral schools is just not safe for a president and they are hands on parents and would be at the school more often than others and it would shut down three schools normal routine every time they came to the school.

Yes heard they really loved GDS and NCS as well.

You heard wrong about NCS. The Obamas (and the Clintons) never even toured NCS.

DP. Are you still obsessing about this? Noone cares. Seriously. It's been 15-25 years since this occurred. Move on.

[Anonymous]

NCS doesn’t fit the Obama brand.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The reason why more presidential and vice presidential children have attended Sidwell is because the Secret Service found it easier to secure..

Sidwell may be better known because of the Obama girls but that doesn’t make it a better school. It’s cruising on its reputation. It has serious issues including a weak college counseling office. STA has its issues, too, but it is overall a better run school with stronger teachers in the Upper School.

I say that as a parent with kids at both schools. Sidwell needs to get its administrative act together and the HOS needs to stop with the blatant favoritism for politically connected families.

And yet the Secret Service managed to successfully secure St. Andrews for FOUR years[b].

The truth is the Clintons, Obamas, Nixons, Gores, Bidens, etc all chose the school that was best for their children. If they had wanted St. Andrews, GDS, Maret, etc the Secret Service would have made it work.
.

Are you stupid or something? St. Andrew’s is suburban and does not have the National Cathedral - which on purpose welcomes thousands of people to the Cathedral Close- sitting on its campus..

The Obamas wanted GDS but the Secret Service found the campuses difficult to secure because of the private housing that abuts both the Upper and what used to be the Lower School campus.

Security in the age of Nixon was a little different. Tricia Nixon attended Horace Mann, a public school. Amy Carter attended Stevens and Hardy. The Bidens have no school-age children.

Ah, the urban myth resurfaces. “The Obamas wanted GDS.”

If the Obamas had wanted GDS, the Obamas would have gotten GDS. They did not make that choice.

I heard they actually wanted NCS for their girls but security is difficult.

I was a door-knocker for the campaign. It was common knowledge (among those who were in the know, like us canvassers) that the order of preference was 1 GDS 2 NCS 3 SFS

Oh well here we go. The door knocker from 2008 tells all.

This is not correct. They could have picked any school in the city.

No actually they could not have selected any school. The Cathedral schools is just not safe for a president and they are hands on parents and would be at the school more often than others and it would shut down three schools normal routine every time they came to the school.

Yes heard they really loved GDS and NCS as well.

You heard wrong about NCS. The Obamas (and the Clintons) never even toured NCS.

DP. Are you still obsessing about this? Noone cares. Seriously. It's been 15-25 years since this occurred. Move on.

I’m responding to the PP. This exchange doesn’t concern you. And since you don’t care, please scroll past my posts (and this thread).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:New poster here. We are very interested in St. Albans. The next entry year for us would be 7 and then 9th. We are very happy in our parochial catholic school and plan to be there through 8th grade. What are the benefits to applying in 7th vs. 9th? For those with kids at the school, would love to hear your experience at the middle school level and high school level.

k

Are you in 6th now? I hear that is a very tough class of parents. It can make a difference in your experience at a school like STA where parents are very hands on in parties and activities all the way through….

What? Sixth is a particularly nice group.

Agreed. Most friendly grade in the Lower school in my opinion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:New poster here. We are very interested in St. Albans. The next entry year for us would be 7 and then 9th. We are very happy in our parochial catholic school and plan to be there through 8th grade. What are the benefits to applying in 7th vs. 9th? For those with kids at the school, would love to hear your experience at the middle school level and high school level.

k

Are you in 6th now? I hear that is a very tough class of parents. It can make a difference in your experience at a school like STA where parents are very hands on in parties and activities all the way through….

What? Sixth is a particularly nice group.

Agreed. Most friendly grade in the Lower school in my opinion.

Heard it is very insular among the Chevy crowd.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:New poster here. We are very interested in St. Albans. The next entry year for us would be 7 and then 9th. We are very happy in our parochial catholic school and plan to be there through 8th grade. What are the benefits to applying in 7th vs. 9th? For those with kids at the school, would love to hear your experience at the middle school level and high school level.

k

Are you in 6th now? I hear that is a very tough class of parents. It can make a difference in your experience at a school like STA where parents are very hands on in parties and activities all the way through….

What? Sixth is a particularly nice group.

Agreed. Most friendly grade in the Lower school in my opinion.

Heard it is very insular among the Chevy crowd.

Really? Where did you “hear” that? 🙄