Disappointed with Georgetown

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:My son and I did our first college tours this week. Although we don't live that far away, this was the first time I had seen Georgetown since my own tour nearly 30 years ago. It was very insightful. .......

When we left, I mentioned none of this to my son, asking instead what he thought. His take: "Dad, if I could manage to get in here, I think I could also get in somewhere much better, so why bother applying." He's much more astute than I was.

.........

He sounds like a prestige whore. What "much better" schools does he think he would get into?

Seriously. Kid sounds like a jerk.

I don't even understand the logic. it's like saying, "if I can get into Vanderbilt, I can get into Yale, so why bother applying to Vanderbilt."

I wouldn't call it "astute," that's for sure.

Seriously.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, I don’t understand how you can conclude Georgetown is overly selective when they are inflating their acceptance rate by 2x, at least, through mandatory test scores, interviews, and no common app.

I'm not saying that the selectivity is fake. The selectivity is extremely real and extremely rigorous. My point is that the school itself -- the one you actually attend after being accepted -- isn't as strong as other schools that are that hard to get into.

What do you use to base this statement on?
Rankings are now more outcome oriented and Georgetown is still one of only a small group of schools in the top 25 of all three major rankings.

I agree that Georgetown's acceptance rate would drop significantly if they did something like UChicago and added ED1 and ED2 to their EA policy (UChicago went from accepting 70% of applicants in the late 90s to under 6% now).
Also, did Chicago admit someone with a 20 ACT or 1020 SAT (scroll to the bottom here, which makes it look like they did): https://collegeadmissions.uchicago.edu/apply/class-2026-profile

[Anonymous]

I agree with you OP.
Georgetown is overrated. The campus is seedy. Living in DC, I know several Georgetown professors and they don’t seem very happy at all. They are constantly complaining that the administration sucks and that many students are rich, spoiled and entitled.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, I don’t understand how you can conclude Georgetown is overly selective when they are inflating their acceptance rate by 2x, at least, through mandatory test scores, interviews, and no common app.

I'm not saying that the selectivity is fake. The selectivity is extremely real and extremely rigorous. My point is that the school itself -- the one you actually attend after being accepted -- isn't as strong as other schools that are that hard to get into.

What do you use to base this statement on?
Rankings are now more outcome oriented and Georgetown is still one of only a small group of schools in the top 25 of all three major rankings.

I agree that Georgetown's acceptance rate would drop significantly if they did something like UChicago and added ED1 and ED2 to their EA policy (UChicago went from accepting 70% of applicants in the late 90s to under 6% now).
Also, did Chicago admit someone with a 20 ACT or 1020 SAT (scroll to the bottom here, which makes it look like they did): https://collegeadmissions.uchicago.edu/apply/class-2026-profile

Yes, it looks like they did.

When I was applying to college in 2004, it was before UChicago took the common app. Their acceptance rate was around 30%, I think, so a lot of people thought it wasn’t a good school. But they were known for looking for kids who really knew what the school was about. I knew lots of kids with higher SAT scores than me who got rejected from UChicago.

I got in there and Georgetown SFS early, and picked Georgetown because I wanted to go into government.

It’s sad to me that UChicago then started taking the Common App and all these kids who never would’ve considered it before started wanting to go, thinking UChicago had suddenly become a better school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree with you OP.
Georgetown is overrated. The campus is seedy. Living in DC, I know several Georgetown professors and they don’t seem very happy at all. They are constantly complaining that the administration sucks and that many students are rich, spoiled and entitled.

LOLOLOL

Professors complain at every school. Trust me.

- Sister of a professor

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son and I did our first college tours this week. Although we don't live that far away, this was the first time I had seen Georgetown since my own tour nearly 30 years ago. It was very insightful. .......

When we left, I mentioned none of this to my son, asking instead what he thought. His take: "Dad, if I could manage to get in here, I think I could also get in somewhere much better, so why bother applying." He's much more astute than I was.

.........

He sounds like a prestige whore. What "much better" schools does he think he would get into?

Seriously. Kid sounds like a jerk.

I don't even understand the logic. it's like saying, "if I can get into Vanderbilt, I can get into Yale, so why bother applying to Vanderbilt."

I wouldn't call it "astute," that's for sure.

Seriously.

+5 Ridiculous. Like OP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with you OP.
Georgetown is overrated. The campus is seedy. Living in DC, I know several Georgetown professors and they don’t seem very happy at all. They are constantly complaining that the administration sucks and that many students are rich, spoiled and entitled.

LOLOLOL

Professors complain at every school. Trust me.

- Sister of a professor

+1

They absolutely do - not many people realize this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with you OP.
Georgetown is overrated. The campus is seedy. Living in DC, I know several Georgetown professors and they don’t seem very happy at all. They are constantly complaining that the administration sucks and that many students are rich, spoiled and entitled.

LOLOLOL

Professors complain at every school. Trust me.

- Sister of a professor

The ex-Georgetown professor I know is much happier at their new university.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with you OP.
Georgetown is overrated. The campus is seedy. Living in DC, I know several Georgetown professors and they don’t seem very happy at all. They are constantly complaining that the administration sucks and that many students are rich, spoiled and entitled.

LOLOLOL

Professors complain at every school. Trust me.

- Sister of a professor

The ex-Georgetown professor I know is much happier at their new university.

So? Maybe they were not a good fit. Plenty of people would love to teach at Georgetown.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:*dorms

Sorry for the mistakes I'm typing with fat thumbs on my phone

And here I was thinking "forms" was some fancy Georgetown specific-term that I didn't know about.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:OP, have your kid tour Notre Dame. Gorgeous sprawling campus and no jets flying above, except for game days.

Completely different school.

And isn't that a good thing?

Depends on what the kid wants. Georgetown is unparalleled for its connections into DC. If that’s what a kid is looking to do, career-wise, Georgetown is the best.

Notre Dame is more your typical strong school with storied sports legacy.

NP. I thought ND was better than Georgetown academically, SFS aside.

Most people do. But this is DCUM and Georgetown is strong regionally.

Georgetown is respected nationally. Most people know ND for football.

ND's class is more diverse geographically than Georgetown's, but nice try.

ND is also more domestic students. Georgetown over 17% international. They love the full pay international kids. Basically, it's the St Andrews of America.

this is funny, although I do think they take too many intl kids.

Tell that to the other top schools, then - oh and you sound very ignorant.

Ivy League average is 12%. So Georgetown almost 50% higher. Now, I realize the Ivy League a much higher level of school, but for schools in the 20-50 range, I think 17% is even higher than the peer group.

Georgetown is also not a common app school. Which I doubt you knew because neither you nor your child bothered applying there.

THIS. BRAVO.

Moreover, SFS at least requires additional essays.

The fact that the acceptance rate is as low as it is is a testament to how desirable of a school Georgetown is.

I can't think of a top 20 school that doesn't require at least two extra essays.

But Georgetown requires a completely separate application.

AND TEST SCORES---VERY HIGH ONES are REQUIRED. This combined with not being on the common app weeds out unqualified applicants from even applying so you don't get the false applicant-selectivity% that other schools use to drive the selectivity falsely down (they send countless mailings, court students...students that don't stand a chance; but having them apply makes their number look more selective and gives them application fees).

It's noted that Georgetown's selectivity is really closer to 5% if you take these things into consideration.

test scores are much lower than top 20 schools. so not that big of a deal.

Georgetown SAT range: 1410-1540
Harvard: 1480-1580
Duke: 1510-1560

Under your logic, Duke is superior to Harvard. In reality, these ranges are not all that different from one another.

Of these three schools, only one is not test optional. It makes a difference in this types of comparisons.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:OP, have your kid tour Notre Dame. Gorgeous sprawling campus and no jets flying above, except for game days.

Completely different school.

And isn't that a good thing?

Depends on what the kid wants. Georgetown is unparalleled for its connections into DC. If that’s what a kid is looking to do, career-wise, Georgetown is the best.

Notre Dame is more your typical strong school with storied sports legacy.

NP. I thought ND was better than Georgetown academically, SFS aside.

Most people do. But this is DCUM and Georgetown is strong regionally.

Georgetown is respected nationally. Most people know ND for football.

ND's class is more diverse geographically than Georgetown's, but nice try.

ND is also more domestic students. Georgetown over 17% international. They love the full pay international kids. Basically, it's the St Andrews of America.

this is funny, although I do think they take too many intl kids.

Tell that to the other top schools, then - oh and you sound very ignorant.

Ivy League average is 12%. So Georgetown almost 50% higher. Now, I realize the Ivy League a much higher level of school, but for schools in the 20-50 range, I think 17% is even higher than the peer group.

Georgetown is also not a common app school. Which I doubt you knew because neither you nor your child bothered applying there.

THIS. BRAVO.

Moreover, SFS at least requires additional essays.

The fact that the acceptance rate is as low as it is is a testament to how desirable of a school Georgetown is.

I can't think of a top 20 school that doesn't require at least two extra essays.

But Georgetown requires a completely separate application.

AND TEST SCORES---VERY HIGH ONES are REQUIRED. This combined with not being on the common app weeds out unqualified applicants from even applying so you don't get the false applicant-selectivity% that other schools use to drive the selectivity falsely down (they send countless mailings, court students...students that don't stand a chance; but having them apply makes their number look more selective and gives them application fees).

It's noted that Georgetown's selectivity is really closer to 5% if you take these things into consideration.

test scores are much lower than top 20 schools. so not that big of a deal.

Georgetown SAT range: 1410-1540
Harvard: 1480-1580
Duke: 1510-1560

Under your logic, Duke is superior to Harvard. In reality, these ranges are not all that different from one another.

1410??

Even varsity athletes have to submit scores.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My son and I did our first college tours this week. Although we don't live that far away, this was the first time I had seen Georgetown since my own tour nearly 30 years ago. It was very insightful.

A 17-year-old middle class kid who loved politics and fantasized about running for office, Georgetown was my first choice. I got into the College. The financial aid package was very loan heavy, and a top LAC (recommended by my college professor neighbor) was very grant heavy. My parents strongly pushed the latter option, and I threw away my Georgetown t-shirt and maybe shed a few tears alone in my room. The social experience at the LAC was a bit lonely, mostly because of my own anxieties, but I made up for it with academic growth. Majored in mathematics. Took lots of classics and economics courses and ended up at a world-class economics department for my Ph.D.

Obviously this visit was about my son, but I honestly felt a sense of longing as we approached the campus. There were a few initial surprises. First, the campus had a very shabby feel. Asphalt everywhere. One big, beautiful historic building, but mostly a patchwork of 1950s-1990s buildings. 757s flying over every few minutes didn't feel terribly compatible with quiet contemplation and study. After the tour, I couldn't believe that my 17-year-old self found this so desirable. The next surprise was at the information session. Admission to the undergraduate College and SFS is even tougher than I had thought. They turn away nearly 90% of applicants.

When we left, I mentioned none of this to my son, asking instead what he thought. His take: "Dad, if I could manage to get in here, I think I could also get in somewhere much better, so why bother applying." He's much more astute than I was.

Here's my take:

Georgetown is a very good -- and very expensive -- school.

Many US cities/metro areas have very fine Jesuit universities (BC, Fordham, Santa Clara, etc.). I really don't think the quality of the undergraduate education at Georgetown is any better than what one would get at those schools. Candidly, I think its basketball program is emblematic of the university as a whole. There were moments of success, but the reputation has greatly outlasted those moments.

Georgetown got a boost in the late 20th Century for a couple reasons.
1. It's in DC.
2. It's in the fanciest part of DC.
3. There's not a lot of competition in DC for the title "best university in DC."
4. It has a lot of household names among its alumni, because it attracts aspiring politicians. Successful politicians are famous, for better or worse. The vast majority of Georgetown students who want to ultimately hold high office do not.
5. It has some famous faculty who worked in government before receiving a plum academic appointment. These people are extremely impressive to 18 year old students. With age and experience you realize that many of them are just stuffed suits.

If I could make one point to prospective students, it's this: any student who can get into the College or SFS could get into a top 10 LAC -- and maybe even Williams/Amherst/Swarthmore. There is no comparison between the quality of teaching and undergraduate academic experience between Georgetown and those schools. Any student who can get into the College or SFS would also have a good chance of getting into an Ivy League school. There is no comparison between the resources and research going on at those universities and Georgetown.

I decided to write this because I'm curious about how others in this area feel, since the school remains so desirable to so many outstanding young people.

If attending a Catholic school is extremely important to you, Georgetown is the nation's oldest and most selective. If you son or daughter absolutely must be in DC for college, it is the top school in the District. Otherwise, guide your your child somewhere else.

This is not true lately, ask me how I know? If your child doesn't like Georgetown, don't apply. But tell them not to assume they will even get into even a T30 school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Georgetown would clearly be the go-to for international and poli sci types of subjects. But otherwise, DC isn't much of a draw. Between BC and Georgetown for campus, BC blows Georgetown out of the water. ND as well, albeit with a different flavor.

Agreed. BC also has a great alumni network and much stronger sports fan community.

If going on to grad school or law school - going to BC will give a great education and doors will be open at other schools for students who do very well at BC. Also, if in Carroll school of mgmt - business school education will be great and alumni network will pay off (well beyond the first job).

But for students interested in the following - Georgetown has a clear edge:
- degrees offered by Georgetown's Walsh School or political science in the College
- wants to be a politician or lobbyist or political data wonk
- wants to work in DC or internationally

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:OP, have your kid tour Notre Dame. Gorgeous sprawling campus and no jets flying above, except for game days.

Completely different school.

And isn't that a good thing?

Depends on what the kid wants. Georgetown is unparalleled for its connections into DC. If that’s what a kid is looking to do, career-wise, Georgetown is the best.

Notre Dame is more your typical strong school with storied sports legacy.

NP. I thought ND was better than Georgetown academically, SFS aside.

Most people do. But this is DCUM and Georgetown is strong regionally.

Georgetown is respected nationally. Most people know ND for football.

ND's class is more diverse geographically than Georgetown's, but nice try.

ND is also more domestic students. Georgetown over 17% international. They love the full pay international kids. Basically, it's the St Andrews of America.

this is funny, although I do think they take too many intl kids.

Tell that to the other top schools, then - oh and you sound very ignorant.

Ivy League average is 12%. So Georgetown almost 50% higher. Now, I realize the Ivy League a much higher level of school, but for schools in the 20-50 range, I think 17% is even higher than the peer group.

Georgetown is also not a common app school. Which I doubt you knew because neither you nor your child bothered applying there.

THIS. BRAVO.

Moreover, SFS at least requires additional essays.

The fact that the acceptance rate is as low as it is is a testament to how desirable of a school Georgetown is.

I can't think of a top 20 school that doesn't require at least two extra essays.

But Georgetown requires a completely separate application.

AND TEST SCORES---VERY HIGH ONES are REQUIRED. This combined with not being on the common app weeds out unqualified applicants from even applying so you don't get the false applicant-selectivity% that other schools use to drive the selectivity falsely down (they send countless mailings, court students...students that don't stand a chance; but having them apply makes their number look more selective and gives them application fees).

It's noted that Georgetown's selectivity is really closer to 5% if you take these things into consideration.

test scores are much lower than top 20 schools. so not that big of a deal.

Georgetown SAT range: 1410-1540
Harvard: 1480-1580
Duke: 1510-1560

Under your logic, Duke is superior to Harvard. In reality, these ranges are not all that different from one another.

1410??

Even varsity athletes have to submit scores.

And 1410 represents the 96th percentile. Their 25th lower percentile still represents the top 5% of test-takers.