UK, Italy, France quality decline, now poorer than all 50 states

[Anonymous]

Today's newsletter from Nobel Prize winner Paul Krugman has a lengthy review of various data sources comparing European countries and the US--here's a few paragraphs

What Happens When Americans Realize How Miserable We Are?
Life is about more than GDP

As I explained the other day, however, perceptions of European decline are largely based on a statistical misunderstanding. European incomes relative to American incomes have not declined, because GDP growth as conventionally measured doesn’t mean what many people think it means. For the extremely wonkish, I’ve posted a little mathematical model to explain what’s going on in the data.

But let me not stop there, and pose a challenge in the opposite direction: What will happen when Americans realize how miserable we are? Not in all respects, of course. But my guess is that relatively few Americans realize how much we are falling behind other nations on basic aspects of a civilized life, like health and safety.

Take the issue of life expectancy, which surely matters as much as GDP. After all, one important contributor to the quality of life is not being dead. Judging from reader reactions to earlier posts, many generally well-informed Americans are still startled to learn how badly U.S. life expectancy has lagged behind other advanced nations:

Graph

Mortality is a useful point of comparison because it’s easily quantifiable. So, to a lesser extent, is work-life balance. As I noted in Sunday’s primer, the Germans and the French are roughly as productive per hour as Americans. They have lower GDP per capita than we do because they have more leisure time. Most German employees, for example, receive 25-28 days of paid leave every year. The average US private-sector worker receives only 10 days of paid vacation and 6 paid holidays annually.

And the US is, of course, the only advanced nation that doesn’t guarantee healthcare to all its citizens.

Other problems with the US way of life — like our lack of walkable cities, access to public transportation, and feasibility of living without a car — are harder to summarize with simple numbers. But they are real failings.

I don’t mean to suggest that everything is worse in the U.S. We do, in fact, have substantially higher GDP per capita than European nations, and this is reflected in our material standard of living. For example, we live in bigger houses, which is nothing to sneer at, and drive bigger cars.

But there are many ways in which America’s quality of life is much worse than one would expect given the nation’s wealth. And we should always remember that economic growth is supposed to be the foundation of a better life. A nation that has high GDP per capita but whose citizens live worse than their counterparts in other countries is not a success story.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not everything is about money. These countries have fewer social problems and live longer in better health.

This. Quality of life in the US sucks for that majority of us at this point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not everything is about money. These countries have fewer social problems and live longer in better health.

This. Quality of life in the US sucks for that majority of us at this point.

Does it suck for you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not everything is about money. These countries have fewer social problems and live longer in better health.

This. Quality of life in the US sucks for that majority of us at this point.

People in those countries live longer with less.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not everything is about money. These countries have fewer social problems and live longer in better health.

This. Quality of life in the US sucks for that majority of us at this point.

I actually don't think it does! I think we just have a morale problem. We somehow think that everyone else has it better, but they don't. I think we need a big campaign to bring happiness back to the US and that starts with less complaining and more looking internally at all the great things you do have. Of course, Americans also fritter away too much money on consumer items, the latest car, etc and then complain about spending 10k a year on health care. I know I complained about my unpaid maternity leave, but I make 3x what my counterpart in Europe does (165k vs 50k). Even with 12 weeks unpaid, I still made more that year.

Yes, some things do need fixed in America, but the average person has so many great things going on in their lives. We just can't see it because we're blinded by nonstop complaining on tiktok and reddit (I'm convinced some of these are foreign bots).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not everything is about money. These countries have fewer social problems and live longer in better health.

This. Quality of life in the US sucks for that majority of us at this point.

I actually don't think it does! I think we just have a morale problem. We somehow think that everyone else has it better, but they don't. I think we need a big campaign to bring happiness back to the US and that starts with less complaining and more looking internally at all the great things you do have. Of course, Americans also fritter away too much money on consumer items, the latest car, etc and then complain about spending 10k a year on health care. I know I complained about my unpaid maternity leave, but I make 3x what my counterpart in Europe does (165k vs 50k). Even with 12 weeks unpaid, I still made more that year.

Yes, some things do need fixed in America, but the average person has so many great things going on in their lives. We just can't see it because we're blinded by nonstop complaining on tiktok and reddit (I'm convinced some of these are foreign bots).

Agree with this. On the internet American women constantly complain about their lack of leave or unpaid leave, but rarely mention their much much higher salaries.

At one point I was planning to be a trailing spouse in the UK and facing a $100k+ salary cut. Everyone kept going on about the paid parental leave (which from the government is around $400 a week), as if 12 more weeks of paid leave makes up for a six figure salary cut over decades. Who would trade millions of dollars for 12 weeks of paid leave??

The truth is we don’t have parental leave because it’s less necessary. Women in most European countries don’t have a spouse or partner who can support a family. It takes 2 office job salaries to equal almost 1 office job salary in the US. Here if an American woman wants to stay home, she can do so and isn’t dependent on the government.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not everything is about money. These countries have fewer social problems and live longer in better health.

This. Quality of life in the US sucks for that majority of us at this point.

People in those countries live longer with less.

Why is living the longest the goal? I've had grandparents and relatives survive into their 90s and they wished for death every day. Your body is broken and doesn't work right, you're confined to a small space because it's too hard to get around, all your friends are gone, your family sees you as a burden. They are over it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not everything is about money. These countries have fewer social problems and live longer in better health.

This. Quality of life in the US sucks for that majority of us at this point.

I actually don't think it does! I think we just have a morale problem. We somehow think that everyone else has it better, but they don't. I think we need a big campaign to bring happiness back to the US and that starts with less complaining and more looking internally at all the great things you do have. Of course, Americans also fritter away too much money on consumer items, the latest car, etc and then complain about spending 10k a year on health care. I know I complained about my unpaid maternity leave, but I make 3x what my counterpart in Europe does (165k vs 50k). Even with 12 weeks unpaid, I still made more that year.

Yes, some things do need fixed in America, but the average person has so many great things going on in their lives. We just can't see it because we're blinded by nonstop complaining on tiktok and reddit (I'm convinced some of these are foreign bots).

Agree with this. On the internet American women constantly complain about their lack of leave or unpaid leave, but rarely mention their much much higher salaries.

At one point I was planning to be a trailing spouse in the UK and facing a $100k+ salary cut. Everyone kept going on about the paid parental leave (which from the government is around $400 a week), as if 12 more weeks of paid leave makes up for a six figure salary cut over decades. Who would trade millions of dollars for 12 weeks of paid leave??

The truth is we don’t have parental leave because it’s less necessary. Women in most European countries don’t have a spouse or partner who can support a family. It takes 2 office job salaries to equal almost 1 office job salary in the US. Here if an American woman wants to stay home, she can do so and isn’t dependent on the government.

Even Canada's (which has a very similar lifestyle and costs compared to the US) mat leave is 55% of earnings (max $695/week). This is way more than the other European countries, but still nothing like the 12 weeks paid that American women think everyone else is getting. And here in the US you can easily get a similar amount from short term disability.

More than money, I would have liked for my job to be held for a year so that I could return to the same job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not everything is about money. These countries have fewer social problems and live longer in better health.

This. Quality of life in the US sucks for that majority of us at this point.

I actually don't think it does! I think we just have a morale problem. We somehow think that everyone else has it better, but they don't. I think we need a big campaign to bring happiness back to the US and that starts with less complaining and more looking internally at all the great things you do have. Of course, Americans also fritter away too much money on consumer items, the latest car, etc and then complain about spending 10k a year on health care. I know I complained about my unpaid maternity leave, but I make 3x what my counterpart in Europe does (165k vs 50k). Even with 12 weeks unpaid, I still made more that year.

Yes, some things do need fixed in America, but the average person has so many great things going on in their lives. We just can't see it because we're blinded by nonstop complaining on tiktok and reddit (I'm convinced some of these are foreign bots).

Agree with this. On the internet American women constantly complain about their lack of leave or unpaid leave, but rarely mention their much much higher salaries.

At one point I was planning to be a trailing spouse in the UK and facing a $100k+ salary cut. Everyone kept going on about the paid parental leave (which from the government is around $400 a week), as if 12 more weeks of paid leave makes up for a six figure salary cut over decades. Who would trade millions of dollars for 12 weeks of paid leave??

The truth is we don’t have parental leave because it’s less necessary. Women in most European countries don’t have a spouse or partner who can support a family. It takes 2 office job salaries to equal almost 1 office job salary in the US. Here if an American woman wants to stay home, she can do so and isn’t dependent on the government.

There are also many more opportunities for part time/freelance/at home jobs in the US. I don't know many sahms, but I know many taking advantage of these options, including myself. And I make nearly as much as my brother in France who works full time, and has a wife who works full time. Childcare is still a struggle for them, and they only make it work thanks to my parents who have my nephew over for school breaks.

[Anonymous]

There is an article today in the Wall Street Journal that Sweden is becoming more capitalist and losing socialism. Taxes have been reduced the last 3 years and social services are being paired back.

[Anonymous]

We live in a K shaped country. If you have a good income at a Fortune 500 or Big Law or consulting or whatever company, everything is rosy. You have good health insurance. You make a good income. Your real estate and investments are all up. Things are peachy.

It sucks for other Americans. More than 4 million lost their health insurance in recent months. Inflation in everything is absurd. It is tough to find a decent job these days.

The UK, Italy, and France are fundamentally middle class countries. That's what they value and that's what they protect. In the US, it's get rich or die trying. There's a difference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Today's newsletter from Nobel Prize winner Paul Krugman has a lengthy review of various data sources comparing European countries and the US--here's a few paragraphs

What Happens When Americans Realize How Miserable We Are?
Life is about more than GDP

As I explained the other day, however, perceptions of European decline are largely based on a statistical misunderstanding. European incomes relative to American incomes have not declined, because GDP growth as conventionally measured doesn’t mean what many people think it means. For the extremely wonkish, I’ve posted a little mathematical model to explain what’s going on in the data.

But let me not stop there, and pose a challenge in the opposite direction: What will happen when Americans realize how miserable we are? Not in all respects, of course. But my guess is that relatively few Americans realize how much we are falling behind other nations on basic aspects of a civilized life, like health and safety.

Take the issue of life expectancy, which surely matters as much as GDP. After all, one important contributor to the quality of life is not being dead. Judging from reader reactions to earlier posts, many generally well-informed Americans are still startled to learn how badly U.S. life expectancy has lagged behind other advanced nations:

Graph

Mortality is a useful point of comparison because it’s easily quantifiable. So, to a lesser extent, is work-life balance. As I noted in Sunday’s primer, the Germans and the French are roughly as productive per hour as Americans. They have lower GDP per capita than we do because they have more leisure time. Most German employees, for example, receive 25-28 days of paid leave every year. The average US private-sector worker receives only 10 days of paid vacation and 6 paid holidays annually.

And the US is, of course, the only advanced nation that doesn’t guarantee healthcare to all its citizens.

Other problems with the US way of life — like our lack of walkable cities, access to public transportation, and feasibility of living without a car — are harder to summarize with simple numbers. But they are real failings.

I don’t mean to suggest that everything is worse in the U.S. We do, in fact, have substantially higher GDP per capita than European nations, and this is reflected in our material standard of living. For example, we live in bigger houses, which is nothing to sneer at, and drive bigger cars.

But there are many ways in which America’s quality of life is much worse than one would expect given the nation’s wealth. And we should always remember that economic growth is supposed to be the foundation of a better life. A nation that has high GDP per capita but whose citizens live worse than their counterparts in other countries is not a success story.

I bet you're Paul Krugman. Who else would keep harping on about being a Nobel prize winner? He's also infamous for claiming inflation under Biden was only transitionary. He can be a hack, and I say this with the cheerfulness of someone who has been aware of Paul Krugman since college in the late 1990s and listening to my econ professors debate him.

Quality of life is in the eye of the beholder. And your own circumstances.

[Anonymous]

I worked for a NY based US company bought be a large German company. I was part of sr. Mgt team. A few things shocked the Germans in their visits to NYC.
1) big Dunkin’ Donuts coffee cups!! Very jealous
2) amount of kids we have. All of my mgt team had 3-4 kids and nearly all had SAHM wives.
3) salaries and bonus much higher.
4) our commutes were longer than the expected

The Germans all seemed to have working spouses, most rented, most lived close the office in smaller places.

My second job an English company and my boss was shocked I mentioned I have a 2,000 sf basement!!! He never heard of such a thing. Once for fun I walked laptop around. It is finished, he was also shocked I had 4 cars

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I worked for a NY based US company bought be a large German company. I was part of sr. Mgt team. A few things shocked the Germans in their visits to NYC.
1) big Dunkin’ Donuts coffee cups!! Very jealous
2) amount of kids we have. All of my mgt team had 3-4 kids and nearly all had SAHM wives.
3) salaries and bonus much higher.
4) our commutes were longer than the expected

The Germans all seemed to have working spouses, most rented, most lived close the office in smaller places.

My second job an English company and my boss was shocked I mentioned I have a 2,000 sf basement!!! He never heard of such a thing. Once for fun I walked laptop around. It is finished, he was also shocked I had 4 cars

Basements are not common in houses in the UK. He was probably secretly judging you or at the minimum somewhat bemused re the four cars.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Today's newsletter from Nobel Prize winner Paul Krugman has a lengthy review of various data sources comparing European countries and the US--here's a few paragraphs

What Happens When Americans Realize How Miserable We Are?
Life is about more than GDP

As I explained the other day, however, perceptions of European decline are largely based on a statistical misunderstanding. European incomes relative to American incomes have not declined, because GDP growth as conventionally measured doesn’t mean what many people think it means. For the extremely wonkish, I’ve posted a little mathematical model to explain what’s going on in the data.

But let me not stop there, and pose a challenge in the opposite direction: What will happen when Americans realize how miserable we are? Not in all respects, of course. But my guess is that relatively few Americans realize how much we are falling behind other nations on basic aspects of a civilized life, like health and safety.

Take the issue of life expectancy, which surely matters as much as GDP. After all, one important contributor to the quality of life is not being dead. Judging from reader reactions to earlier posts, many generally well-informed Americans are still startled to learn how badly U.S. life expectancy has lagged behind other advanced nations:

Graph

Mortality is a useful point of comparison because it’s easily quantifiable. So, to a lesser extent, is work-life balance. As I noted in Sunday’s primer, the Germans and the French are roughly as productive per hour as Americans. They have lower GDP per capita than we do because they have more leisure time. Most German employees, for example, receive 25-28 days of paid leave every year. The average US private-sector worker receives only 10 days of paid vacation and 6 paid holidays annually.

And the US is, of course, the only advanced nation that doesn’t guarantee healthcare to all its citizens.

Other problems with the US way of life — like our lack of walkable cities, access to public transportation, and feasibility of living without a car — are harder to summarize with simple numbers. But they are real failings.

I don’t mean to suggest that everything is worse in the U.S. We do, in fact, have substantially higher GDP per capita than European nations, and this is reflected in our material standard of living. For example, we live in bigger houses, which is nothing to sneer at, and drive bigger cars.

But there are many ways in which America’s quality of life is much worse than one would expect given the nation’s wealth. And we should always remember that economic growth is supposed to be the foundation of a better life. A nation that has high GDP per capita but whose citizens live worse than their counterparts in other countries is not a success story.

I bet you're Paul Krugman. Who else would keep harping on about being a Nobel prize winner? He's also infamous for claiming inflation under Biden was only transitionary. He can be a hack, and I say this with the cheerfulness of someone who has been aware of Paul Krugman since college in the late 1990s and listening to my econ professors debate him.

Quality of life is in the eye of the beholder. And your own circumstances.

Grandpa--just because someone cites a work of analysis online, doesn't mean they're the author of said analysis (the real Paul Krugman is childless and has better places to hang out than DCUM presumably). I refer to him as being a Nobel prize winner, because he is, and it's a mark of credibility for excellence in one's field. His data driven analysis is certainly far more intelligent than half the posts on this thread, which include astute insights like "I drove through England once and it looked like Alabama to me" and "I would rather die young and be rich than live longer and be poor."

Maybe you should try reading something more substantive than wikipedia and you could cite respected thought leaders too.