TJ results out

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do you mean when you say top students? All As or something else.

Someone posted on here there were rejections of kids who qualified for USAJMO in 7th grade. This is a contest that takes around the top 100 math students in the country. And that is among 10th graders and below.
7th or 8th grader to make this in Virginia is rare, but they couldn't find room in a class of 500. They also reject5 winners of MathCounts, Science Olympiad, and other contests.
Really anyone who qualifies for the earlier round AIME should be accepted.

Why? What if they wrote "I don't want to go to TJ" for their essay? Or "I want to go to TJ because I'm better than everyone else and if you send me to my base school I'll be bored to tears"?

If you create metrics that deliver automatic acceptances, you will see an insane rush by parents to set their relatively workaday kids up to conform to that metric regardless of the damage done to their child's development. This, more than anything else, is why opaque admissions procedures are an absolute necessity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do you mean when you say top students? All As or something else.

Someone posted on here there were rejections of kids who qualified for USAJMO in 7th grade. This is a contest that takes around the top 100 math students in the country. And that is among 10th graders and below.
7th or 8th grader to make this in Virginia is rare, but they couldn't find room in a class of 500. They also reject5 winners of MathCounts, Science Olympiad, and other contests.
Really anyone who qualifies for the earlier round AIME should be accepted.

Followup- I described the top students statewide who were getting rejected. But TJ has a minimum quota per school and selects from within a school first. By top students I am looking at top MathCounts students who qualify for state, vs your all A students that are just OK at math, taking geometry or maybe algebra 1. Last year- the school had students who didn't accept four algebra 2 kids, one qualified for MathCounts nationals, another was in top 12 at MathCounts State, another was on a top team at state MathCounts and won awards in computer programming, another won lots of awards in chess rated 2000+. The students who were accepted probably had all As but were not known as standout students. One was plausible- an Algebra 2 student who was solid on the MathCounts team but not winning at the chapter level. Almost all accepted were Asian so it not a racial factor as many are suggesting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do you mean when you say top students? All As or something else.

Someone posted on here there were rejections of kids who qualified for USAJMO in 7th grade. This is a contest that takes around the top 100 math students in the country. And that is among 10th graders and below.
7th or 8th grader to make this in Virginia is rare, but they couldn't find room in a class of 500. They also reject5 winners of MathCounts, Science Olympiad, and other contests.
Really anyone who qualifies for the earlier round AIME should be accepted.

Why? What if they wrote "I don't want to go to TJ" for their essay? Or "I want to go to TJ because I'm better than everyone else and if you send me to my base school I'll be bored to tears"?

If you create metrics that deliver automatic acceptances, you will see an insane rush by parents to set their relatively workaday kids up to conform to that metric regardless of the damage done to their child's development. This, more than anything else, is why opaque admissions procedures are an absolute necessity.

It might be possible to push a borderline kid to qualify for AIME, it is unlikely. It is not possible for USAJMO.
To qualify for AIME a student would have to be able to do 15 of these questions in 75 minutes.
https://artofproblemsolving.com/wiki/index.php/2023_AMC_10A_Problems
Possible but unlikely that training would change these results for mediocre students. Prepping for the current essay is more likely to get admission.
USAJMO would probably need half of these questions, in three hours
https://artofproblemsolving.com/wiki/index.php/2024_AIME_I_Problems
.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do you mean when you say top students? All As or something else.

Someone posted on here there were rejections of kids who qualified for USAJMO in 7th grade. This is a contest that takes around the top 100 math students in the country. And that is among 10th graders and below.
7th or 8th grader to make this in Virginia is rare, but they couldn't find room in a class of 500. They also reject5 winners of MathCounts, Science Olympiad, and other contests.
Really anyone who qualifies for the earlier round AIME should be accepted.

Followup- I described the top students statewide who were getting rejected. But TJ has a minimum quota per school and selects from within a school first. By top students I am looking at top MathCounts students who qualify for state, vs your all A students that are just OK at math, taking geometry or maybe algebra 1. Last year- the school had students who didn't accept four algebra 2 kids, one qualified for MathCounts nationals, another was in top 12 at MathCounts State, another was on a top team at state MathCounts and won awards in computer programming, another won lots of awards in chess rated 2000+. The students who were accepted probably had all As but were not known as standout students. One was plausible- an Algebra 2 student who was solid on the MathCounts team but not winning at the chapter level. Almost all accepted were Asian so it not a racial factor as many are suggesting.

The proposal I've had for some time to enhance the present admissions process is to create a standardized teacher recommendation form asking teachers to evaluate applicants against students in their own class.

So essentially, design a form that lets teachers rate the students across a broad spectrum of metrics:
- command of the material
- academic integrity
- commitment to learning for its own sake
- contributions to the overall class environment
- intellectual curiosity in STEM
-
- etc.

... using a rating scale including "Poor", "Below Average", "Average", "Above Average", "Superior", and "One of the best I've seen". But the key is that the teacher should be evaluating the students more or less against each other, so that when an application evaluator is reviewing a batch from, say, a Geometry teacher at Carson, they should be seeing ratings across the spectrum. If that teacher is rating every student as "Superior" or higher, it becomes clear that that teacher's evaluations aren't to be taken seriously.

A recommendation form of this type should take no more than 5 minutes to fill out at most. I'd also invite the opportunity for each teacher recommender to select a maximum of 3-5 students to write more expansively about if they so chose - whether to encourage the admissions personnel to admit the student or, perhaps equally importantly, to let them know to avoid a student who, for example, cheated on an assignment or would otherwise contribute negatively to the TJ environment.

PP, would you agree that a process like the above would enhance the likelihood that the right 45 students or so were selected from places like Carson, Longfellow, Rocky Run, etc?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do you mean when you say top students? All As or something else.

Someone posted on here there were rejections of kids who qualified for USAJMO in 7th grade. This is a contest that takes around the top 100 math students in the country. And that is among 10th graders and below.
7th or 8th grader to make this in Virginia is rare, but they couldn't find room in a class of 500. They also reject5 winners of MathCounts, Science Olympiad, and other contests.
Really anyone who qualifies for the earlier round AIME should be accepted.

Followup- I described the top students statewide who were getting rejected. But TJ has a minimum quota per school and selects from within a school first. By top students I am looking at top MathCounts students who qualify for state, vs your all A students that are just OK at math, taking geometry or maybe algebra 1. Last year- the school had students who didn't accept four algebra 2 kids, one qualified for MathCounts nationals, another was in top 12 at MathCounts State, another was on a top team at state MathCounts and won awards in computer programming, another won lots of awards in chess rated 2000+. The students who were accepted probably had all As but were not known as standout students. One was plausible- an Algebra 2 student who was solid on the MathCounts team but not winning at the chapter level. Almost all accepted were Asian so it not a racial factor as many are suggesting.

The proposal I've had for some time to enhance the present admissions process is to create a standardized teacher recommendation form asking teachers to evaluate applicants against students in their own class.

So essentially, design a form that lets teachers rate the students across a broad spectrum of metrics:
- command of the material
- academic integrity
- commitment to learning for its own sake
- contributions to the overall class environment
- intellectual curiosity in STEM
-
- etc.

... using a rating scale including "Poor", "Below Average", "Average", "Above Average", "Superior", and "One of the best I've seen". But the key is that the teacher should be evaluating the students more or less against each other, so that when an application evaluator is reviewing a batch from, say, a Geometry teacher at Carson, they should be seeing ratings across the spectrum. If that teacher is rating every student as "Superior" or higher, it becomes clear that that teacher's evaluations aren't to be taken seriously.

A recommendation form of this type should take no more than 5 minutes to fill out at most. I'd also invite the opportunity for each teacher recommender to select a maximum of 3-5 students to write more expansively about if they so chose - whether to encourage the admissions personnel to admit the student or, perhaps equally importantly, to let them know to avoid a student who, for example, cheated on an assignment or would otherwise contribute negatively to the TJ environment.

PP, would you agree that a process like the above would enhance the likelihood that the right 45 students or so were selected from places like Carson, Longfellow, Rocky Run, etc?

Teachers would get sued.

[Anonymous]

According to my kid, most of the top students in their MS got offers this year. There are few outliners but overall, to my kid, ~75％ of the admission is expected and deserved.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do you mean when you say top students? All As or something else.

Someone posted on here there were rejections of kids who qualified for USAJMO in 7th grade. This is a contest that takes around the top 100 math students in the country. And that is among 10th graders and below.
7th or 8th grader to make this in Virginia is rare, but they couldn't find room in a class of 500. They also reject5 winners of MathCounts, Science Olympiad, and other contests.
Really anyone who qualifies for the earlier round AIME should be accepted.

Followup- I described the top students statewide who were getting rejected. But TJ has a minimum quota per school and selects from within a school first. By top students I am looking at top MathCounts students who qualify for state, vs your all A students that are just OK at math, taking geometry or maybe algebra 1. Last year- the school had students who didn't accept four algebra 2 kids, one qualified for MathCounts nationals, another was in top 12 at MathCounts State, another was on a top team at state MathCounts and won awards in computer programming, another won lots of awards in chess rated 2000+. The students who were accepted probably had all As but were not known as standout students. One was plausible- an Algebra 2 student who was solid on the MathCounts team but not winning at the chapter level. Almost all accepted were Asian so it not a racial factor as many are suggesting.

The proposal I've had for some time to enhance the present admissions process is to create a standardized teacher recommendation form asking teachers to evaluate applicants against students in their own class.

So essentially, design a form that lets teachers rate the students across a broad spectrum of metrics:
- command of the material
- academic integrity
- commitment to learning for its own sake
- contributions to the overall class environment
- intellectual curiosity in STEM
-
- etc.

... using a rating scale including "Poor", "Below Average", "Average", "Above Average", "Superior", and "One of the best I've seen". But the key is that the teacher should be evaluating the students more or less against each other, so that when an application evaluator is reviewing a batch from, say, a Geometry teacher at Carson, they should be seeing ratings across the spectrum. If that teacher is rating every student as "Superior" or higher, it becomes clear that that teacher's evaluations aren't to be taken seriously.

A recommendation form of this type should take no more than 5 minutes to fill out at most. I'd also invite the opportunity for each teacher recommender to select a maximum of 3-5 students to write more expansively about if they so chose - whether to encourage the admissions personnel to admit the student or, perhaps equally importantly, to let them know to avoid a student who, for example, cheated on an assignment or would otherwise contribute negatively to the TJ environment.

PP, would you agree that a process like the above would enhance the likelihood that the right 45 students or so were selected from places like Carson, Longfellow, Rocky Run, etc?

Teachers would get sued.

I see the value of teacher recommendation, but it cannot be the only thing - too subjective.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do you mean when you say top students? All As or something else.

Someone posted on here there were rejections of kids who qualified for USAJMO in 7th grade. This is a contest that takes around the top 100 math students in the country. And that is among 10th graders and below.
7th or 8th grader to make this in Virginia is rare, but they couldn't find room in a class of 500. They also reject5 winners of MathCounts, Science Olympiad, and other contests.
Really anyone who qualifies for the earlier round AIME should be accepted.

Followup- I described the top students statewide who were getting rejected. But TJ has a minimum quota per school and selects from within a school first. By top students I am looking at top MathCounts students who qualify for state, vs your all A students that are just OK at math, taking geometry or maybe algebra 1. Last year- the school had students who didn't accept four algebra 2 kids, one qualified for MathCounts nationals, another was in top 12 at MathCounts State, another was on a top team at state MathCounts and won awards in computer programming, another won lots of awards in chess rated 2000+. The students who were accepted probably had all As but were not known as standout students. One was plausible- an Algebra 2 student who was solid on the MathCounts team but not winning at the chapter level. Almost all accepted were Asian so it not a racial factor as many are suggesting.

The proposal I've had for some time to enhance the present admissions process is to create a standardized teacher recommendation form asking teachers to evaluate applicants against students in their own class.

So essentially, design a form that lets teachers rate the students across a broad spectrum of metrics:
- command of the material
- academic integrity
- commitment to learning for its own sake
- contributions to the overall class environment
- intellectual curiosity in STEM
-
- etc.

... using a rating scale including "Poor", "Below Average", "Average", "Above Average", "Superior", and "One of the best I've seen". But the key is that the teacher should be evaluating the students more or less against each other, so that when an application evaluator is reviewing a batch from, say, a Geometry teacher at Carson, they should be seeing ratings across the spectrum. If that teacher is rating every student as "Superior" or higher, it becomes clear that that teacher's evaluations aren't to be taken seriously.

A recommendation form of this type should take no more than 5 minutes to fill out at most. I'd also invite the opportunity for each teacher recommender to select a maximum of 3-5 students to write more expansively about if they so chose - whether to encourage the admissions personnel to admit the student or, perhaps equally importantly, to let them know to avoid a student who, for example, cheated on an assignment or would otherwise contribute negatively to the TJ environment.

PP, would you agree that a process like the above would enhance the likelihood that the right 45 students or so were selected from places like Carson, Longfellow, Rocky Run, etc?

Teachers would get sued.

How and why?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do you mean when you say top students? All As or something else.

Someone posted on here there were rejections of kids who qualified for USAJMO in 7th grade. This is a contest that takes around the top 100 math students in the country. And that is among 10th graders and below.
7th or 8th grader to make this in Virginia is rare, but they couldn't find room in a class of 500. They also reject5 winners of MathCounts, Science Olympiad, and other contests.
Really anyone who qualifies for the earlier round AIME should be accepted.

Followup- I described the top students statewide who were getting rejected. But TJ has a minimum quota per school and selects from within a school first. By top students I am looking at top MathCounts students who qualify for state, vs your all A students that are just OK at math, taking geometry or maybe algebra 1. Last year- the school had students who didn't accept four algebra 2 kids, one qualified for MathCounts nationals, another was in top 12 at MathCounts State, another was on a top team at state MathCounts and won awards in computer programming, another won lots of awards in chess rated 2000+. The students who were accepted probably had all As but were not known as standout students. One was plausible- an Algebra 2 student who was solid on the MathCounts team but not winning at the chapter level. Almost all accepted were Asian so it not a racial factor as many are suggesting.

The proposal I've had for some time to enhance the present admissions process is to create a standardized teacher recommendation form asking teachers to evaluate applicants against students in their own class.

So essentially, design a form that lets teachers rate the students across a broad spectrum of metrics:
- command of the material
- academic integrity
- commitment to learning for its own sake
- contributions to the overall class environment
- intellectual curiosity in STEM
-
- etc.

... using a rating scale including "Poor", "Below Average", "Average", "Above Average", "Superior", and "One of the best I've seen". But the key is that the teacher should be evaluating the students more or less against each other, so that when an application evaluator is reviewing a batch from, say, a Geometry teacher at Carson, they should be seeing ratings across the spectrum. If that teacher is rating every student as "Superior" or higher, it becomes clear that that teacher's evaluations aren't to be taken seriously.

A recommendation form of this type should take no more than 5 minutes to fill out at most. I'd also invite the opportunity for each teacher recommender to select a maximum of 3-5 students to write more expansively about if they so chose - whether to encourage the admissions personnel to admit the student or, perhaps equally importantly, to let them know to avoid a student who, for example, cheated on an assignment or would otherwise contribute negatively to the TJ environment.

PP, would you agree that a process like the above would enhance the likelihood that the right 45 students or so were selected from places like Carson, Longfellow, Rocky Run, etc?

Teachers would get sued.

I see the value of teacher recommendation, but it cannot be the only thing - too subjective.

Selection processes are and must be subjective. An objective selection process incentivizes parents to narrowly tailor their child's middle school experience to meet the standard and results in homogeneity among the selected population - the former is destructive for kids, and the latter is terrible for school environments.

Parents in this area need to stop wanting an explicit road map for how to get their child into TJ. Such a road map was provided with the old process, and the result was devastating for the health of high-achieving children in Northern Virginia.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do you mean when you say top students? All As or something else.

Someone posted on here there were rejections of kids who qualified for USAJMO in 7th grade. This is a contest that takes around the top 100 math students in the country. And that is among 10th graders and below.
7th or 8th grader to make this in Virginia is rare, but they couldn't find room in a class of 500. They also reject5 winners of MathCounts, Science Olympiad, and other contests.
Really anyone who qualifies for the earlier round AIME should be accepted.

Followup- I described the top students statewide who were getting rejected. But TJ has a minimum quota per school and selects from within a school first. By top students I am looking at top MathCounts students who qualify for state, vs your all A students that are just OK at math, taking geometry or maybe algebra 1. Last year- the school had students who didn't accept four algebra 2 kids, one qualified for MathCounts nationals, another was in top 12 at MathCounts State, another was on a top team at state MathCounts and won awards in computer programming, another won lots of awards in chess rated 2000+. The students who were accepted probably had all As but were not known as standout students. One was plausible- an Algebra 2 student who was solid on the MathCounts team but not winning at the chapter level. Almost all accepted were Asian so it not a racial factor as many are suggesting.

The proposal I've had for some time to enhance the present admissions process is to create a standardized teacher recommendation form asking teachers to evaluate applicants against students in their own class.

So essentially, design a form that lets teachers rate the students across a broad spectrum of metrics:
- command of the material
- academic integrity
- commitment to learning for its own sake
- contributions to the overall class environment
- intellectual curiosity in STEM
-
- etc.

... using a rating scale including "Poor", "Below Average", "Average", "Above Average", "Superior", and "One of the best I've seen". But the key is that the teacher should be evaluating the students more or less against each other, so that when an application evaluator is reviewing a batch from, say, a Geometry teacher at Carson, they should be seeing ratings across the spectrum. If that teacher is rating every student as "Superior" or higher, it becomes clear that that teacher's evaluations aren't to be taken seriously.

A recommendation form of this type should take no more than 5 minutes to fill out at most. I'd also invite the opportunity for each teacher recommender to select a maximum of 3-5 students to write more expansively about if they so chose - whether to encourage the admissions personnel to admit the student or, perhaps equally importantly, to let them know to avoid a student who, for example, cheated on an assignment or would otherwise contribute negatively to the TJ environment.

PP, would you agree that a process like the above would enhance the likelihood that the right 45 students or so were selected from places like Carson, Longfellow, Rocky Run, etc?

Teachers would get sued.

I see the value of teacher recommendation, but it cannot be the only thing - too subjective.

Selection processes are and must be subjective. An objective selection process incentivizes parents to narrowly tailor their child's middle school experience to meet the standard and results in homogeneity among the selected population - the former is destructive for kids, and the latter is terrible for school environments.

Parents in this area need to stop wanting an explicit road map for how to get their child into TJ. Such a road map was provided with the old process, and the result was devastating for the health of high-achieving children in Northern Virginia.

It can be a combination. Why not allow essays and a test and experience factors?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do you mean when you say top students? All As or something else.

Someone posted on here there were rejections of kids who qualified for USAJMO in 7th grade. This is a contest that takes around the top 100 math students in the country. And that is among 10th graders and below.
7th or 8th grader to make this in Virginia is rare, but they couldn't find room in a class of 500. They also reject5 winners of MathCounts, Science Olympiad, and other contests.
Really anyone who qualifies for the earlier round AIME should be accepted.

Followup- I described the top students statewide who were getting rejected. But TJ has a minimum quota per school and selects from within a school first. By top students I am looking at top MathCounts students who qualify for state, vs your all A students that are just OK at math, taking geometry or maybe algebra 1. Last year- the school had students who didn't accept four algebra 2 kids, one qualified for MathCounts nationals, another was in top 12 at MathCounts State, another was on a top team at state MathCounts and won awards in computer programming, another won lots of awards in chess rated 2000+. The students who were accepted probably had all As but were not known as standout students. One was plausible- an Algebra 2 student who was solid on the MathCounts team but not winning at the chapter level. Almost all accepted were Asian so it not a racial factor as many are suggesting.

The proposal I've had for some time to enhance the present admissions process is to create a standardized teacher recommendation form asking teachers to evaluate applicants against students in their own class.

So essentially, design a form that lets teachers rate the students across a broad spectrum of metrics:
- command of the material
- academic integrity
- commitment to learning for its own sake
- contributions to the overall class environment
- intellectual curiosity in STEM
-
- etc.

... using a rating scale including "Poor", "Below Average", "Average", "Above Average", "Superior", and "One of the best I've seen". But the key is that the teacher should be evaluating the students more or less against each other, so that when an application evaluator is reviewing a batch from, say, a Geometry teacher at Carson, they should be seeing ratings across the spectrum. If that teacher is rating every student as "Superior" or higher, it becomes clear that that teacher's evaluations aren't to be taken seriously.

A recommendation form of this type should take no more than 5 minutes to fill out at most. I'd also invite the opportunity for each teacher recommender to select a maximum of 3-5 students to write more expansively about if they so chose - whether to encourage the admissions personnel to admit the student or, perhaps equally importantly, to let them know to avoid a student who, for example, cheated on an assignment or would otherwise contribute negatively to the TJ environment.

PP, would you agree that a process like the above would enhance the likelihood that the right 45 students or so were selected from places like Carson, Longfellow, Rocky Run, etc?

That would help get the top students within a school. But it is clear FCPS does not want this information.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do you mean when you say top students? All As or something else.

Someone posted on here there were rejections of kids who qualified for USAJMO in 7th grade. This is a contest that takes around the top 100 math students in the country. And that is among 10th graders and below.
7th or 8th grader to make this in Virginia is rare, but they couldn't find room in a class of 500. They also reject5 winners of MathCounts, Science Olympiad, and other contests.
Really anyone who qualifies for the earlier round AIME should be accepted.

Followup- I described the top students statewide who were getting rejected. But TJ has a minimum quota per school and selects from within a school first. By top students I am looking at top MathCounts students who qualify for state, vs your all A students that are just OK at math, taking geometry or maybe algebra 1. Last year- the school had students who didn't accept four algebra 2 kids, one qualified for MathCounts nationals, another was in top 12 at MathCounts State, another was on a top team at state MathCounts and won awards in computer programming, another won lots of awards in chess rated 2000+. The students who were accepted probably had all As but were not known as standout students. One was plausible- an Algebra 2 student who was solid on the MathCounts team but not winning at the chapter level. Almost all accepted were Asian so it not a racial factor as many are suggesting.

The proposal I've had for some time to enhance the present admissions process is to create a standardized teacher recommendation form asking teachers to evaluate applicants against students in their own class.

So essentially, design a form that lets teachers rate the students across a broad spectrum of metrics:
- command of the material
- academic integrity
- commitment to learning for its own sake
- contributions to the overall class environment
- intellectual curiosity in STEM
-
- etc.

... using a rating scale including "Poor", "Below Average", "Average", "Above Average", "Superior", and "One of the best I've seen". But the key is that the teacher should be evaluating the students more or less against each other, so that when an application evaluator is reviewing a batch from, say, a Geometry teacher at Carson, they should be seeing ratings across the spectrum. If that teacher is rating every student as "Superior" or higher, it becomes clear that that teacher's evaluations aren't to be taken seriously.

A recommendation form of this type should take no more than 5 minutes to fill out at most. I'd also invite the opportunity for each teacher recommender to select a maximum of 3-5 students to write more expansively about if they so chose - whether to encourage the admissions personnel to admit the student or, perhaps equally importantly, to let them know to avoid a student who, for example, cheated on an assignment or would otherwise contribute negatively to the TJ environment.

PP, would you agree that a process like the above would enhance the likelihood that the right 45 students or so were selected from places like Carson, Longfellow, Rocky Run, etc?

Teachers would get sued.

How and why?

Because we are in the DC area with lawyers who will take on any case to make a buck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do you mean when you say top students? All As or something else.

Someone posted on here there were rejections of kids who qualified for USAJMO in 7th grade. This is a contest that takes around the top 100 math students in the country. And that is among 10th graders and below.
7th or 8th grader to make this in Virginia is rare, but they couldn't find room in a class of 500. They also reject5 winners of MathCounts, Science Olympiad, and other contests.
Really anyone who qualifies for the earlier round AIME should be accepted.

Followup- I described the top students statewide who were getting rejected. But TJ has a minimum quota per school and selects from within a school first. By top students I am looking at top MathCounts students who qualify for state, vs your all A students that are just OK at math, taking geometry or maybe algebra 1. Last year- the school had students who didn't accept four algebra 2 kids, one qualified for MathCounts nationals, another was in top 12 at MathCounts State, another was on a top team at state MathCounts and won awards in computer programming, another won lots of awards in chess rated 2000+. The students who were accepted probably had all As but were not known as standout students. One was plausible- an Algebra 2 student who was solid on the MathCounts team but not winning at the chapter level. Almost all accepted were Asian so it not a racial factor as many are suggesting.

The proposal I've had for some time to enhance the present admissions process is to create a standardized teacher recommendation form asking teachers to evaluate applicants against students in their own class.

So essentially, design a form that lets teachers rate the students across a broad spectrum of metrics:
- command of the material
- academic integrity
- commitment to learning for its own sake
- contributions to the overall class environment
- intellectual curiosity in STEM
-
- etc.

... using a rating scale including "Poor", "Below Average", "Average", "Above Average", "Superior", and "One of the best I've seen". But the key is that the teacher should be evaluating the students more or less against each other, so that when an application evaluator is reviewing a batch from, say, a Geometry teacher at Carson, they should be seeing ratings across the spectrum. If that teacher is rating every student as "Superior" or higher, it becomes clear that that teacher's evaluations aren't to be taken seriously.

A recommendation form of this type should take no more than 5 minutes to fill out at most. I'd also invite the opportunity for each teacher recommender to select a maximum of 3-5 students to write more expansively about if they so chose - whether to encourage the admissions personnel to admit the student or, perhaps equally importantly, to let them know to avoid a student who, for example, cheated on an assignment or would otherwise contribute negatively to the TJ environment.

PP, would you agree that a process like the above would enhance the likelihood that the right 45 students or so were selected from places like Carson, Longfellow, Rocky Run, etc?

NO. What if the teacher does not like a child even if that child is exceptional. I rather have my kids taking tests, but no to any teacher's opinion!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do you mean when you say top students? All As or something else.

Someone posted on here there were rejections of kids who qualified for USAJMO in 7th grade. This is a contest that takes around the top 100 math students in the country. And that is among 10th graders and below.
7th or 8th grader to make this in Virginia is rare, but they couldn't find room in a class of 500. They also reject5 winners of MathCounts, Science Olympiad, and other contests.
Really anyone who qualifies for the earlier round AIME should be accepted.

Yeap, same situation in my kid's school. And, we weren't in a very competitive one like Longfellow or Carson. Top ones were waitlisted and average got offered. Some speculated that TJ believe those winners would not need TJ to excel, so they didn't offer them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do you mean when you say top students? All As or something else.

Someone posted on here there were rejections of kids who qualified for USAJMO in 7th grade. This is a contest that takes around the top 100 math students in the country. And that is among 10th graders and below.
7th or 8th grader to make this in Virginia is rare, but they couldn't find room in a class of 500. They also reject5 winners of MathCounts, Science Olympiad, and other contests.
Really anyone who qualifies for the earlier round AIME should be accepted.

Followup- I described the top students statewide who were getting rejected. But TJ has a minimum quota per school and selects from within a school first. By top students I am looking at top MathCounts students who qualify for state, vs your all A students that are just OK at math, taking geometry or maybe algebra 1. Last year- the school had students who didn't accept four algebra 2 kids, one qualified for MathCounts nationals, another was in top 12 at MathCounts State, another was on a top team at state MathCounts and won awards in computer programming, another won lots of awards in chess rated 2000+. The students who were accepted probably had all As but were not known as standout students. One was plausible- an Algebra 2 student who was solid on the MathCounts team but not winning at the chapter level. Almost all accepted were Asian so it not a racial factor as many are suggesting.

The proposal I've had for some time to enhance the present admissions process is to create a standardized teacher recommendation form asking teachers to evaluate applicants against students in their own class.

So essentially, design a form that lets teachers rate the students across a broad spectrum of metrics:
- command of the material
- academic integrity
- commitment to learning for its own sake
- contributions to the overall class environment
- intellectual curiosity in STEM
-
- etc.

... using a rating scale including "Poor", "Below Average", "Average", "Above Average", "Superior", and "One of the best I've seen". But the key is that the teacher should be evaluating the students more or less against each other, so that when an application evaluator is reviewing a batch from, say, a Geometry teacher at Carson, they should be seeing ratings across the spectrum. If that teacher is rating every student as "Superior" or higher, it becomes clear that that teacher's evaluations aren't to be taken seriously.

A recommendation form of this type should take no more than 5 minutes to fill out at most. I'd also invite the opportunity for each teacher recommender to select a maximum of 3-5 students to write more expansively about if they so chose - whether to encourage the admissions personnel to admit the student or, perhaps equally importantly, to let them know to avoid a student who, for example, cheated on an assignment or would otherwise contribute negatively to the TJ environment.

PP, would you agree that a process like the above would enhance the likelihood that the right 45 students or so were selected from places like Carson, Longfellow, Rocky Run, etc?

NO. What if the teacher does not like a child even if that child is exceptional. I rather have my kids taking tests, but no to any teacher's opinion!

Kids know who like them. And, as a teacher myself, I would decline giving a letter if I cannot provide a good one.