Should I send my kids to mathnasium?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Direct quote from one of PP’s anti textbook articles:

“The educational community was quick to respond to the (legitimate) criticism of textbooks,” he wrote, “but quicker still to adopt their horrific replacements: excessive use of lecture, worksheets, movies, poster making, and pointless group work.”

^This is largely what I’m seeing at my AAP center, but replacing the lecture bit with pointless centers. Lack of textbooks wouldn’t be a problem if the school had a curriculum and abandoned the centers model. No textbook + no curriculum = teachers having to generate content from thin air.

For both of my kids, VA Studies was a much higher quality class than anything else they’ve done in elementary. It’s also the only class that has a textbook.

DP. This is because your teachers and school are very progressive. Textbooks wouldn't change that.

Our ES is fairly old-fashioned and not progressive. There are no math centers, no posters, no pointless group work. The grades teach in teams and, while there are no textbooks, the teachers clearly don't need them.

I dislike the science/social studies either/or model but that is not confined to FCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Re:teachers working as a team. They only do in 6th grade at my AAP center. In the other grades, there’s no correspondence between lessons and homework between AAP classes. Each teacher is a loner doing whatever he or she wants.

Well that is too bad for your kids. At our center, teachers absolutely do work in grade teams. I don’t feel like I miss textbooks at all. My kids are thriving and learning a lot. And the teaching at our school has been excellent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have 2 kids in 3rd and 5th grade AAP. I’ve recently realized that many of their classmates go to kumon or mathnasium. My 3rd grader seems to especially feel behind as he feels his classmates are more advanced than he is in math. Some kids claim to be doing algebra in 3rd grade. We recently moved to Mclean. I didn’t even know what mathnasium was until we moved here.

My 5th grader told me he is in the lowest AAP math group. He said his group is the one who did the worst in pre assessments. At open house, teachers were purposely vague about differentiation within AAP math. We have never prepped or done any outside math with our children. I’m beginning to think we should be doing something.

My 3rd grader recently took another pre assessment and he said he was dumb. He said he got only 4 questions right out of 20 while others were getting everything right. I told him this was for the teacher to see where everyone was at and DS said he was the dumbest kid in the class.

Both my kids scored 99th percentile in their math Cogat and have always received 4s in math.

Should I be sending my kids to mathnasium or similar?

In a case like this I would-- not because your kid needs more math, but because it's hurting his confidence. My Ds was struggling in math and a math tutor said that we better believe that many of these kids who are doing amazing are getting tons of outside support-- even, and especially, if they are highly gifted in the subject.

I'm also in the camp of "you can never have too much math"-- even if you choose a field that doesn't require a lot of math, the critical thinking skills are invaluable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Re:teachers working as a team. They only do in 6th grade at my AAP center. In the other grades, there’s no correspondence between lessons and homework between AAP classes. Each teacher is a loner doing whatever he or she wants.

Well that is too bad for your kids. At our center, teachers absolutely do work in grade teams. I don’t feel like I miss textbooks at all. My kids are thriving and learning a lot. And the teaching at our school has been excellent.

Yep. But that’s exactly why textbooks and/or a curriculum would help. The good teachers can continue doing what they’re doing, but the bad ones would at least have the crutch of a textbook.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DD completed math program at Kumon McLean. She breezed through Algebras and skipped Calculus - because of Kumon.

So if my child was sitting in same algebra class with your child, my child would appear to be struggling since your child already learned or at least had exposure to material being taught in class.

I will take my kids to visit mathnasium. Guess it can’t hurt.

Yes. I teach AAP and the amount of kids who already know all of the standards I have to cover this year is insane!! They learned it outside of school two years ago and are doing way harder math outside of school. The schools won’t put them in a higher grade for math class though... so I’m stuck with 1/4 students who aren’t familiar with the standards (which is what a teacher typically expects- to teach kids the standards), 1/2 already know it all, and the other 1/4 are somewhat familiar from doing less intense math outside of school. I have pressure to challenge and engage the kids who are bored because they know it all, but my concern is catching up the students who come to school to learn math. Not everyone’s parents have spent thousands to get them way ahead in math from first grade on...it’s cool they know so much but I think having them take a test and go with the right grade for math block would make more sense. Parents so crazy competitive about TJ, but half these kids are getting far far ahead of the pacing guide doing math outside of school. I think it really effects the confidence of the kids who come to school to learn math because we have al these kids saying “this is easy” and solving problems so quickly...

I just think the schools should stop having stupid rules about sending a kid to another grade for math. Test them and if they’re doing 8th grade math outside of school- send them to an 8th grade math teacher during school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DD completed math program at Kumon McLean. She breezed through Algebras and skipped Calculus - because of Kumon.

Is this doublespeak for "Took AP stats" ?

McLean High told her she can take AP stats in 9th grade, but she got into TJ and is on a different math path now.

OP here. I suspect these kids who do the extra math are TJ bound. Would you say most kids in middle school who went on to TJ did these outside math programs?

My kids are bright. I'm sure they wouldn't mind going to mathnasium. They get barely any math homework. 3rd grader gets 1 math worksheet per day and not even everyday. I don't think my 5th grader gets any homework or he finishes it during free time at school.

Lots of kids do extra math and are WAY ahead of the pacing guide. TJ won’t be able to accept them all.

-AAP teacher

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wow, this post is eye-opening! I went to a regular (well-rated) public high school in New England, no G&T or Kumon, but managed to get strong enough in math such that I eventually aced my math and engineering classes at MIT. I doubt the kids in AAP are less intelligent than I was - so I guess the quality of curriculum and instruction has deteriorated??

G&T or AAP aren’t typically found in school districts in the northeast. The standards are rigorous enough. If a student is way ahead in math they usually just send them to the next grade for math only. There typically isn’t “gen ed” or “aap” in the elementary schools in the northeast. All students are held to the same rigorous standards. Teachers differentiate as needed for those who need intervention or enrichment to master those standards... just like down here. Even in AAP you’d be amazed by the different levels these kids are at. I say just give them all the same rigorous standards throughout elementary school and stop this nonsense. It’s totally a status thing... “I can afford COGAT tutors and math classes to get my child way ahead so they can be in AAP and you can’t do you’re child is just gen ed!” It’s weird for someone from New England. But keep it this way if that’s how it just works in VA... I didn’t come here to change your ways.

[Anonymous]

Classic nova reverse psychology move ... tell nervous parents not to waste time with kumon or mathnasium while sneaking out the back door and loading up the kids to take them to kumon or mathnasium.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DD completed math program at Kumon McLean. She breezed through Algebras and skipped Calculus - because of Kumon.

So if my child was sitting in same algebra class with your child, my child would appear to be struggling since your child already learned or at least had exposure to material being taught in class.

I will take my kids to visit mathnasium. Guess it can’t hurt.

Yes. I teach AAP and the amount of kids who already know all of the standards I have to cover this year is insane!! They learned it outside of school two years ago and are doing way harder math outside of school. The schools won’t put them in a higher grade for math class though... so I’m stuck with 1/4 students who aren’t familiar with the standards (which is what a teacher typically expects- to teach kids the standards), 1/2 already know it all, and the other 1/4 are somewhat familiar from doing less intense math outside of school. I have pressure to challenge and engage the kids who are bored because they know it all, but my concern is catching up the students who come to school to learn math. Not everyone’s parents have spent thousands to get them way ahead in math from first grade on...it’s cool they know so much but I think having them take a test and go with the right grade for math block would make more sense. Parents so crazy competitive about TJ, but half these kids are getting far far ahead of the pacing guide doing math outside of school. I think it really effects the confidence of the kids who come to school to learn math because we have al these kids saying “this is easy” and solving problems so quickly...

I just think the schools should stop having stupid rules about sending a kid to another grade for math. Test them and if they’re doing 8th grade math outside of school- send them to an 8th grade math teacher during school.

Op here. So my kid isn’t wrong when he says he is in the lowest math group within AAP.

Do you think the kids without outside help are at a disadvantage?

I actually really value free time and play. We are Asian American. My parents prioritized education and did not value socialization.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow, this post is eye-opening! I went to a regular (well-rated) public high school in New England, no G&T or Kumon, but managed to get strong enough in math such that I eventually aced my math and engineering classes at MIT. I doubt the kids in AAP are less intelligent than I was - so I guess the quality of curriculum and instruction has deteriorated??

Yes the deterioration is in the form of quantity over quality. There appears to be no teaching happening in the classroom in this area and pyramid (McLean). It is expected and business as usual (by the school) that families will easily pay outside companies to prep their kids if they have not been able to learn in class. The only interesting question then is, what is actually happening in class? My guess is that it's mainly mindless assessments and or drill/worksheets, but minimal delivery of valuable ideas/concepts. Since there are no textbooks, if a kid doesn't get what's happening in class, they're permanently behind unless they employ outside assistance.

Not in McLean but in a Vienna school. 100% agree with this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow, this post is eye-opening! I went to a regular (well-rated) public high school in New England, no G&T or Kumon, but managed to get strong enough in math such that I eventually aced my math and engineering classes at MIT. I doubt the kids in AAP are less intelligent than I was - so I guess the quality of curriculum and instruction has deteriorated??

Yes the deterioration is in the form of quantity over quality. There appears to be no teaching happening in the classroom in this area and pyramid (McLean). It is expected and business as usual (by the school) that families will easily pay outside companies to prep their kids if they have not been able to learn in class. The only interesting question then is, what is actually happening in class? My guess is that it's mainly mindless assessments and or drill/worksheets, but minimal delivery of valuable ideas/concepts. Since there are no textbooks, if a kid doesn't get what's happening in class, they're permanently behind unless they employ outside assistance.

Not in McLean but in a Vienna school. 100% agree with this.

Not in McLean or Vienna, but I also agree 100% with this. 30 years ago in my school, the smart kids took Algebra in 8th. But, along the way, we did the full progression of easier problems to reinforce concepts all the way through very challenging, multi-part word problems to really make sure we understood how to apply everything. From my kids' work, it looks like they're just doing the easier problems to reinforce the concepts and not the in-depth, challenge problems. They're covering the material faster, but more shallowly. They also waste a tremendous amount of time in math class. At most, they're getting about 10 minutes of instruction per day in a small group, maybe 10 minutes of a good worksheet that helps with concepts, and then 40 minutes of time wasters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DD completed math program at Kumon McLean. She breezed through Algebras and skipped Calculus - because of Kumon.

So if my child was sitting in same algebra class with your child, my child would appear to be struggling since your child already learned or at least had exposure to material being taught in class.

I will take my kids to visit mathnasium. Guess it can’t hurt.

Yes. I teach AAP and the amount of kids who already know all of the standards I have to cover this year is insane!! They learned it outside of school two years ago and are doing way harder math outside of school. The schools won’t put them in a higher grade for math class though... so I’m stuck with 1/4 students who aren’t familiar with the standards (which is what a teacher typically expects- to teach kids the standards), 1/2 already know it all, and the other 1/4 are somewhat familiar from doing less intense math outside of school. I have pressure to challenge and engage the kids who are bored because they know it all, but my concern is catching up the students who come to school to learn math. Not everyone’s parents have spent thousands to get them way ahead in math from first grade on...it’s cool they know so much but I think having them take a test and go with the right grade for math block would make more sense. Parents so crazy competitive about TJ, but half these kids are getting far far ahead of the pacing guide doing math outside of school. I think it really effects the confidence of the kids who come to school to learn math because we have al these kids saying “this is easy” and solving problems so quickly...

I just think the schools should stop having stupid rules about sending a kid to another grade for math. Test them and if they’re doing 8th grade math outside of school- send them to an 8th grade math teacher during school.

Some schools do allow it. The problem is that it's inconsistent. My DS was allowed to skip ahead a year. He had to take several tests in order to do it and the school monitored closely to make sure there were no gaps in learning. I know many schools won't allow it though even if the child is capable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I just think the schools should stop having stupid rules about sending a kid to another grade for math. Test them and if they’re doing 8th grade math outside of school- send them to an 8th grade math teacher during school.

I know at least two schools where they do send more advanced kids to other grades for Math. There is definitely one child in DD's 4th grade class who is doing 6th grade math I suspect he's actually considerably more advanced than that), and I have a friend who has had two kids grade skip math. What it takes is perfect SOLs and perfect grades in math, in class.

[Anonymous]

In some ways, I'm really glad DD goes to a not well rated ES. The AAP classes are small. This year, the teaching has been excellent, and I'm told that there are some good math teachers coming up in 5th and 6th grades. Because there are only 2 AAP classes, they are team taught. There had been serious gaps in learning last year, but considerably less this year. DD is so much more relaxed, because the way things are done, there is fairly individualized instruction in small groups.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just think the schools should stop having stupid rules about sending a kid to another grade for math. Test them and if they’re doing 8th grade math outside of school- send them to an 8th grade math teacher during school.

I know at least two schools where they do send more advanced kids to other grades for Math. There is definitely one child in DD's 4th grade class who is doing 6th grade math I suspect he's actually considerably more advanced than that), and I have a friend who has had two kids grade skip math. What it takes is perfect SOLs and perfect grades in math, in class.

Mosby Woods? They allow kids to skip grades in math, but the process is very secretive. They don't just want the perfect SOLs, but they also want very high CogAT Q scores. Then, a FCPS curriculum specialist tests the kids for a grade skip. Some very talented kids are passed over based on tests when from when they were 7 year olds, while other overly prepped kids are being given the grade skip. If you think your kid should be considered for a skip, make a point of asking about the criteria at the end of 4th grade.