UK, Italy, France quality decline, now poorer than all 50 states

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wait- why was my post on how much maternity leave pays in other countries deleted? I think it’s really relevant because Americans think other countries are getting 100% pay and they aren’t. They get a few hundred a week.

There is hard data about how much rich European countries contribute for childcare. It's orders of magnitude higher than in the US.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/06/upshot/child-care-biden.html
How Other Nations Pay for Child Care. The U.S. Is an Outlier.
Rich countries contribute an average of $14,000 per year for a toddler’s care, compared with $500 in the U.S.

I lived in Britain. I still have friends there. Childcare costs are very high, everyone complains about it, just like in the US. Europe is not monolithic. What works in Denmark isn't true for Britain.

I find it interesting that the posters who are either from Europe, worked in Europe or have close relationships with European coworkers are more realistic and cautious in their responses then the people who keep talking about how wonderful it is. Who I don't think ever lived in a European country. Because if you did, you'd know salaries are a lot lower and cost of living is still pretty high. And even the healthcare varies from country to country. It's not perfect. I've experienced the health system in three countries including the US and found pros and cons to all of them.

If you really want to think Europe is paradise, go for it. I'm loved my time in the UK but there's plenty of warts and I'm happy to be back here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wait- why was my post on how much maternity leave pays in other countries deleted? I think it’s really relevant because Americans think other countries are getting 100% pay and they aren’t. They get a few hundred a week.

There is hard data about how much rich European countries contribute for childcare. It's orders of magnitude higher than in the US.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/06/upshot/child-care-biden.html
How Other Nations Pay for Child Care. The U.S. Is an Outlier.
Rich countries contribute an average of $14,000 per year for a toddler’s care, compared with $500 in the U.S.

I lived in Britain. I still have friends there. Childcare costs are very high, everyone complains about it, just like in the US. Europe is not monolithic. What works in Denmark isn't true for Britain.

I find it interesting that the posters who are either from Europe, worked in Europe or have close relationships with European coworkers are more realistic and cautious in their responses then the people who keep talking about how wonderful it is. Who I don't think ever lived in a European country. Because if you did, you'd know salaries are a lot lower and cost of living is still pretty high. And even the healthcare varies from country to country. It's not perfect. I've experienced the health system in three countries including the US and found pros and cons to all of them.

If you really want to think Europe is paradise, go for it. I'm loved my time in the UK but there's plenty of warts and I'm happy to be back here.

Since you say you lived in Britain, you should know that it's different from the European Union countries it chose to leave during Brexit, which offer more social support to families. No one on this thread has said that Europe is paradise, that's your own invention, but posters have pointed out quality of life elements where Europe can be superior, that aren't captured in such a narrow measure as per capita income.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As someone who spent most of career working for European comanies in the USA here are main reasons.
1) we get paid more
2) we pay less tax
3) We own far more US Stock which has been on a tear the last 18 years
4) companies grant RSUs unlike Europe
5) no Vat tax on purchases.
6) more likely to own real estate which also been way up.

My boss in Europe made less then me in the USA who reported to him. Paid more taxes, lived in a rental and owned hardly any stocks.

Now an unemployed person, person who company gives no medical, parents with kids in college and young moms looking for cheap child care better in Europe but even with all that the salary does not make up for it.

Only 17% of U.S. corporate equities are held by foreigners globally. So that means out of every country in world so individual countries own very little. They missed whole Equity run up.

I was on vacation in Portugal last year and was shocked at amount of older people who did not own homes complaning rents are rising and investors are coming in from US buying homes. Well the two best ways to grown wealth is stocks and real estate. The average US worker has a house and a 401k, the average European does not. Only 47.2 percent of Germans own a home.

In Europe the ceiling is way lower and the floor is way higher. The US is like the lottery, people buy tickets for a chance to strike it rich. You won, but the stats show that increasingly the odds are not in people's favor. The cost of housing, education, and medical care have been going up quickly though. It's not clear how much longer it'll last.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone who spent most of career working for European comanies in the USA here are main reasons.
1) we get paid more
2) we pay less tax
3) We own far more US Stock which has been on a tear the last 18 years
4) companies grant RSUs unlike Europe
5) no Vat tax on purchases.
6) more likely to own real estate which also been way up.

My boss in Europe made less then me in the USA who reported to him. Paid more taxes, lived in a rental and owned hardly any stocks.

Now an unemployed person, person who company gives no medical, parents with kids in college and young moms looking for cheap child care better in Europe but even with all that the salary does not make up for it.

Only 17% of U.S. corporate equities are held by foreigners globally. So that means out of every country in world so individual countries own very little. They missed whole Equity run up.

I was on vacation in Portugal last year and was shocked at amount of older people who did not own homes complaning rents are rising and investors are coming in from US buying homes. Well the two best ways to grown wealth is stocks and real estate. The average US worker has a house and a 401k, the average European does not. Only 47.2 percent of Germans own a home.

In Europe the ceiling is way lower and the floor is way higher. The US is like the lottery, people buy tickets for a chance to strike it rich. You won, but the stats show that increasingly the odds are not in people's favor. The cost of housing, education, and medical care have been going up quickly though. It's not clear how much longer it'll last.

This is literally the opposite of what the stats show. That was way back at the start of the thread… the average American is way better off than the average European.

In a wealthy area like this one the difference is night and day. (And yes, I have lived in Europe).

I love Europe and might move back but that is all made possible because of the millions I have made by saving and investing here. It would have been impossible for me to do the same thing there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone who spent most of career working for European comanies in the USA here are main reasons.
1) we get paid more
2) we pay less tax
3) We own far more US Stock which has been on a tear the last 18 years
4) companies grant RSUs unlike Europe
5) no Vat tax on purchases.
6) more likely to own real estate which also been way up.

My boss in Europe made less then me in the USA who reported to him. Paid more taxes, lived in a rental and owned hardly any stocks.

Now an unemployed person, person who company gives no medical, parents with kids in college and young moms looking for cheap child care better in Europe but even with all that the salary does not make up for it.

Only 17% of U.S. corporate equities are held by foreigners globally. So that means out of every country in world so individual countries own very little. They missed whole Equity run up.

I was on vacation in Portugal last year and was shocked at amount of older people who did not own homes complaning rents are rising and investors are coming in from US buying homes. Well the two best ways to grown wealth is stocks and real estate. The average US worker has a house and a 401k, the average European does not. Only 47.2 percent of Germans own a home.

In Europe the ceiling is way lower and the floor is way higher. The US is like the lottery, people buy tickets for a chance to strike it rich. You won, but the stats show that increasingly the odds are not in people's favor. The cost of housing, education, and medical care have been going up quickly though. It's not clear how much longer it'll last.

This is literally the opposite of what the stats show. That was way back at the start of the thread… the average American is way better off than the average European.

In a wealthy area like this one the difference is night and day. (And yes, I have lived in Europe).

I love Europe and might move back but that is all made possible because of the millions I have made by saving and investing here. It would have been impossible for me to do the same thing there.

No that is literally not what the stats show (unless you look at a single stat on income and not the many facets of well being.).

To summarize the dozens of posts on this thread that you haven’t bothered to read:
1) Yes people in the US have higher incomes on average.

2) But compared to Europe, life expectancy in the USA is lower, educational outcomes are lower and leisure time is lower.

So clearly money can’t buy everything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wait- why was my post on how much maternity leave pays in other countries deleted? I think it’s really relevant because Americans think other countries are getting 100% pay and they aren’t. They get a few hundred a week.

There is hard data about how much rich European countries contribute for childcare. It's orders of magnitude higher than in the US.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/06/upshot/child-care-biden.html
How Other Nations Pay for Child Care. The U.S. Is an Outlier.
Rich countries contribute an average of $14,000 per year for a toddler’s care, compared with $500 in the U.S.

I lived in Britain. I still have friends there. Childcare costs are very high, everyone complains about it, just like in the US. Europe is not monolithic. What works in Denmark isn't true for Britain.

I find it interesting that the posters who are either from Europe, worked in Europe or have close relationships with European coworkers are more realistic and cautious in their responses then the people who keep talking about how wonderful it is. Who I don't think ever lived in a European country. Because if you did, you'd know salaries are a lot lower and cost of living is still pretty high. And even the healthcare varies from country to country. It's not perfect. I've experienced the health system in three countries including the US and found pros and cons to all of them.

If you really want to think Europe is paradise, go for it. I'm loved my time in the UK but there's plenty of warts and I'm happy to be back here.

The idolizing of family life in Europe is bizarre. My European friends have way less money and staying home with kids isn’t an option at all. Two adults working is = to 1.25 adults working here. Housing costs are insane. Salaries are low. The parental leave is around $400 a week in the most generous country. The job market is less flexible and in many countries kids only go to school half day or have Wednesday off, and aftercare or PT childcare is difficult to find. Instead the mom is expected to work PT and deal with the terrible school hours.

There’s a stark difference between college grads with kids here and college grads with kids in Europe. It’s night and day and if you lived there, you’d know it.

I’d retire in Europe but you couldn’t pay me to try to raise a family there. Don’t even get me started on the tiny apartments and houses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone who spent most of career working for European comanies in the USA here are main reasons.
1) we get paid more
2) we pay less tax
3) We own far more US Stock which has been on a tear the last 18 years
4) companies grant RSUs unlike Europe
5) no Vat tax on purchases.
6) more likely to own real estate which also been way up.

My boss in Europe made less then me in the USA who reported to him. Paid more taxes, lived in a rental and owned hardly any stocks.

Now an unemployed person, person who company gives no medical, parents with kids in college and young moms looking for cheap child care better in Europe but even with all that the salary does not make up for it.

Only 17% of U.S. corporate equities are held by foreigners globally. So that means out of every country in world so individual countries own very little. They missed whole Equity run up.

I was on vacation in Portugal last year and was shocked at amount of older people who did not own homes complaning rents are rising and investors are coming in from US buying homes. Well the two best ways to grown wealth is stocks and real estate. The average US worker has a house and a 401k, the average European does not. Only 47.2 percent of Germans own a home.

In Europe the ceiling is way lower and the floor is way higher. The US is like the lottery, people buy tickets for a chance to strike it rich. You won, but the stats show that increasingly the odds are not in people's favor. The cost of housing, education, and medical care have been going up quickly though. It's not clear how much longer it'll last.

This is literally the opposite of what the stats show. That was way back at the start of the thread… the average American is way better off than the average European.

In a wealthy area like this one the difference is night and day. (And yes, I have lived in Europe).

I love Europe and might move back but that is all made possible because of the millions I have made by saving and investing here. It would have been impossible for me to do the same thing there.

No that is literally not what the stats show (unless you look at a single stat on income and not the many facets of well being.).

To summarize the dozens of posts on this thread that you haven’t bothered to read:
1) Yes people in the US have higher incomes on average.

2) But compared to Europe, life expectancy in the USA is lower, educational outcomes are lower and leisure time is lower.

So clearly money can’t buy everything.

Is it lower for educated office workers? My guess is most likely not. The life expectancy is lower here due to higher murder rates, which yes is horrible but doesn’t usually affect educated office workers.

The education claim you make is debatable. Take Finland. Constantly praised for its educational system but their economy is in terrible condition. If their education system is so great then why are there so few innovations and companies coming out if Finland? Why is there such a high unemployment rate? Who cares how great of an education you get if you can’t get a high paying job, start your own business etc?

Leisure time can also be debunked. My European friends work less (and earn way less), but they also have to use their free time to clean their house, work on their garden etc. On my Saturday I’m not doing chores and they are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone who spent most of career working for European comanies in the USA here are main reasons.
1) we get paid more
2) we pay less tax
3) We own far more US Stock which has been on a tear the last 18 years
4) companies grant RSUs unlike Europe
5) no Vat tax on purchases.
6) more likely to own real estate which also been way up.

My boss in Europe made less then me in the USA who reported to him. Paid more taxes, lived in a rental and owned hardly any stocks.

Now an unemployed person, person who company gives no medical, parents with kids in college and young moms looking for cheap child care better in Europe but even with all that the salary does not make up for it.

Only 17% of U.S. corporate equities are held by foreigners globally. So that means out of every country in world so individual countries own very little. They missed whole Equity run up.

I was on vacation in Portugal last year and was shocked at amount of older people who did not own homes complaning rents are rising and investors are coming in from US buying homes. Well the two best ways to grown wealth is stocks and real estate. The average US worker has a house and a 401k, the average European does not. Only 47.2 percent of Germans own a home.

In Europe the ceiling is way lower and the floor is way higher. The US is like the lottery, people buy tickets for a chance to strike it rich. You won, but the stats show that increasingly the odds are not in people's favor. The cost of housing, education, and medical care have been going up quickly though. It's not clear how much longer it'll last.

This is literally the opposite of what the stats show. That was way back at the start of the thread… the average American is way better off than the average European.

In a wealthy area like this one the difference is night and day. (And yes, I have lived in Europe).

I love Europe and might move back but that is all made possible because of the millions I have made by saving and investing here. It would have been impossible for me to do the same thing there.

No that is literally not what the stats show (unless you look at a single stat on income and not the many facets of well being.).

To summarize the dozens of posts on this thread that you haven’t bothered to read:
1) Yes people in the US have higher incomes on average.

2) But compared to Europe, life expectancy in the USA is lower, educational outcomes are lower and leisure time is lower.

So clearly money can’t buy everything.

Is it lower for educated office workers? My guess is most likely not. The life expectancy is lower here due to higher murder rates, which yes is horrible but doesn’t usually affect educated office workers.

The education claim you make is debatable. Take Finland. Constantly praised for its educational system but their economy is in terrible condition. If their education system is so great then why are there so few innovations and companies coming out if Finland? Why is there such a high unemployment rate? Who cares how great of an education you get if you can’t get a high paying job, start your own business etc?

Leisure time can also be debunked. My European friends work less (and earn way less), but they also have to use their free time to clean their house, work on their garden etc. On my Saturday I’m not doing chores and they are.

Actually the Scandinavian countries have a long tradition of business acumen and innovation.

Here are some of the best-known Scandinavian and Nordic companies, grouped by country.

Sweden:

* IKEA, home furnishings
* Volvo Cars, automobiles
* Ericsson, telecommunications
* Spotify, music streaming
* H&M, fashion retail
* Electrolux, appliances
* Saab, aerospace and defense
* SKF, industrial bearings
* Klarna, fintech
* Atlas Copco, industrial equipment

Denmark:

* LEGO, toys
* Maersk, shipping and logistics
* Novo Nordisk, pharmaceuticals
* Carlsberg, brewing
* Vestas, wind turbines
* Bang & Olufsen, audio electronics
* Ørsted, renewable energy
* Pandora, jewelry

Norway:

* Equinor, energy and oil
* Telenor, telecommunications
* Yara International, agriculture and fertilizer
* Norsk Hydro, aluminum and energy
* Kongsberg Gruppen, defense and technology
* DNB, banking

Finland:

* Nokia, telecommunications
* Kone, elevators and escalators
* Marimekko, fashion and design
* Fiskars, consumer goods
* Wärtsilä, marine and energy technology
* Rovio, gaming
* Supercell, mobile gaming

Iceland:

* deCODE genetics, biotechnology
* Icelandair, aviation
* Marel, food processing technology
* Össur, prosthetics and medical devices

A few especially influential Scandinavian brands globally include IKEA, LEGO, Spotify, Novo Nordisk, and Maersk. These are heavy hitters for such tiny countries.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone who spent most of career working for European comanies in the USA here are main reasons.
1) we get paid more
2) we pay less tax
3) We own far more US Stock which has been on a tear the last 18 years
4) companies grant RSUs unlike Europe
5) no Vat tax on purchases.
6) more likely to own real estate which also been way up.

My boss in Europe made less then me in the USA who reported to him. Paid more taxes, lived in a rental and owned hardly any stocks.

Now an unemployed person, person who company gives no medical, parents with kids in college and young moms looking for cheap child care better in Europe but even with all that the salary does not make up for it.

Only 17% of U.S. corporate equities are held by foreigners globally. So that means out of every country in world so individual countries own very little. They missed whole Equity run up.

I was on vacation in Portugal last year and was shocked at amount of older people who did not own homes complaning rents are rising and investors are coming in from US buying homes. Well the two best ways to grown wealth is stocks and real estate. The average US worker has a house and a 401k, the average European does not. Only 47.2 percent of Germans own a home.

In Europe the ceiling is way lower and the floor is way higher. The US is like the lottery, people buy tickets for a chance to strike it rich. You won, but the stats show that increasingly the odds are not in people's favor. The cost of housing, education, and medical care have been going up quickly though. It's not clear how much longer it'll last.

This is literally the opposite of what the stats show. That was way back at the start of the thread… the average American is way better off than the average European.

In a wealthy area like this one the difference is night and day. (And yes, I have lived in Europe).

I love Europe and might move back but that is all made possible because of the millions I have made by saving and investing here. It would have been impossible for me to do the same thing there.

No that is literally not what the stats show (unless you look at a single stat on income and not the many facets of well being.).

To summarize the dozens of posts on this thread that you haven’t bothered to read:
1) Yes people in the US have higher incomes on average.

2) But compared to Europe, life expectancy in the USA is lower, educational outcomes are lower and leisure time is lower.

So clearly money can’t buy everything.

Is it lower for educated office workers? My guess is most likely not. The life expectancy is lower here due to higher murder rates, which yes is horrible but doesn’t usually affect educated office workers.

The education claim you make is debatable. Take Finland. Constantly praised for its educational system but their economy is in terrible condition. If their education system is so great then why are there so few innovations and companies coming out if Finland? Why is there such a high unemployment rate? Who cares how great of an education you get if you can’t get a high paying job, start your own business etc?

Leisure time can also be debunked. My European friends work less (and earn way less), but they also have to use their free time to clean their house, work on their garden etc. On my Saturday I’m not doing chores and they are.

So you debunk anything that isn’t directly relevant to your precious educated existence? It’s odd that your reference point in the US is a sample of exactly one - you. The life expectancy of people who don’t work in offices doesn’t count?

The U.S.’s premature death rate (deaths per 100,000 people under age 70) in 2021 was almost twice the average of these similarly large and wealthy countries. 46% of the difference was due to chronic diseases and substance abuse. Not murder.

Among 15 to 49-year-olds, the U.S. death rate was 2.5 times that of comparable countries largely due to chronic disease. I guess your rejoinder is that they are all uneducated and therefore who cares?

Finland has a population of 5 million people so exactly what are you expecting? What sort of capital markets do you expect in Finland? $60,000 GDP per capita it’s hardly terrible. Plus the government is 82% of GDP versus 122% for the US.

Congratulations on maximising your leisure time. In my own extensive survey, I spend part of my weekend working on my garden and do my own cleaning while my friends in London have cleaners and spend many of their weekends visiting cities on the continent. What conclusions should I draw?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone who spent most of career working for European comanies in the USA here are main reasons.
1) we get paid more
2) we pay less tax
3) We own far more US Stock which has been on a tear the last 18 years
4) companies grant RSUs unlike Europe
5) no Vat tax on purchases.
6) more likely to own real estate which also been way up.

My boss in Europe made less then me in the USA who reported to him. Paid more taxes, lived in a rental and owned hardly any stocks.

Now an unemployed person, person who company gives no medical, parents with kids in college and young moms looking for cheap child care better in Europe but even with all that the salary does not make up for it.

Only 17% of U.S. corporate equities are held by foreigners globally. So that means out of every country in world so individual countries own very little. They missed whole Equity run up.

I was on vacation in Portugal last year and was shocked at amount of older people who did not own homes complaning rents are rising and investors are coming in from US buying homes. Well the two best ways to grown wealth is stocks and real estate. The average US worker has a house and a 401k, the average European does not. Only 47.2 percent of Germans own a home.

In Europe the ceiling is way lower and the floor is way higher. The US is like the lottery, people buy tickets for a chance to strike it rich. You won, but the stats show that increasingly the odds are not in people's favor. The cost of housing, education, and medical care have been going up quickly though. It's not clear how much longer it'll last.

This is literally the opposite of what the stats show. That was way back at the start of the thread… the average American is way better off than the average European.

In a wealthy area like this one the difference is night and day. (And yes, I have lived in Europe).

I love Europe and might move back but that is all made possible because of the millions I have made by saving and investing here. It would have been impossible for me to do the same thing there.

No that is literally not what the stats show (unless you look at a single stat on income and not the many facets of well being.).

To summarize the dozens of posts on this thread that you haven’t bothered to read:
1) Yes people in the US have higher incomes on average.

2) But compared to Europe, life expectancy in the USA is lower, educational outcomes are lower and leisure time is lower.

So clearly money can’t buy everything.

Is it lower for educated office workers? My guess is most likely not. The life expectancy is lower here due to higher murder rates, which yes is horrible but doesn’t usually affect educated office workers.

The education claim you make is debatable. Take Finland. Constantly praised for its educational system but their economy is in terrible condition. If their education system is so great then why are there so few innovations and companies coming out if Finland? Why is there such a high unemployment rate? Who cares how great of an education you get if you can’t get a high paying job, start your own business etc?

Leisure time can also be debunked. My European friends work less (and earn way less), but they also have to use their free time to clean their house, work on their garden etc. On my Saturday I’m not doing chores and they are.

So you debunk anything that isn’t directly relevant to your precious educated existence? It’s odd that your reference point in the US is a sample of exactly one - you. The life expectancy of people who don’t work in offices doesn’t count?

The U.S.’s premature death rate (deaths per 100,000 people under age 70) in 2021 was almost twice the average of these similarly large and wealthy countries. 46% of the difference was due to chronic diseases and substance abuse. Not murder.

Among 15 to 49-year-olds, the U.S. death rate was 2.5 times that of comparable countries largely due to chronic disease. I guess your rejoinder is that they are all uneducated and therefore who cares?

Finland has a population of 5 million people so exactly what are you expecting? What sort of capital markets do you expect in Finland? $60,000 GDP per capita it’s hardly terrible. Plus the government is 82% of GDP versus 122% for the US.

Congratulations on maximising your leisure time. In my own extensive survey, I spend part of my weekend working on my garden and do my own cleaning while my friends in London have cleaners and spend many of their weekends visiting cities on the continent. What conclusions should I draw?

* government debt

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone who spent most of career working for European comanies in the USA here are main reasons.
1) we get paid more
2) we pay less tax
3) We own far more US Stock which has been on a tear the last 18 years
4) companies grant RSUs unlike Europe
5) no Vat tax on purchases.
6) more likely to own real estate which also been way up.

My boss in Europe made less then me in the USA who reported to him. Paid more taxes, lived in a rental and owned hardly any stocks.

Now an unemployed person, person who company gives no medical, parents with kids in college and young moms looking for cheap child care better in Europe but even with all that the salary does not make up for it.

Only 17% of U.S. corporate equities are held by foreigners globally. So that means out of every country in world so individual countries own very little. They missed whole Equity run up.

I was on vacation in Portugal last year and was shocked at amount of older people who did not own homes complaning rents are rising and investors are coming in from US buying homes. Well the two best ways to grown wealth is stocks and real estate. The average US worker has a house and a 401k, the average European does not. Only 47.2 percent of Germans own a home.

In Europe the ceiling is way lower and the floor is way higher. The US is like the lottery, people buy tickets for a chance to strike it rich. You won, but the stats show that increasingly the odds are not in people's favor. The cost of housing, education, and medical care have been going up quickly though. It's not clear how much longer it'll last.

This is literally the opposite of what the stats show. That was way back at the start of the thread… the average American is way better off than the average European.

In a wealthy area like this one the difference is night and day. (And yes, I have lived in Europe).

I love Europe and might move back but that is all made possible because of the millions I have made by saving and investing here. It would have been impossible for me to do the same thing there.

No that is literally not what the stats show (unless you look at a single stat on income and not the many facets of well being.).

To summarize the dozens of posts on this thread that you haven’t bothered to read:
1) Yes people in the US have higher incomes on average.

2) But compared to Europe, life expectancy in the USA is lower, educational outcomes are lower and leisure time is lower.

So clearly money can’t buy everything.

Is it lower for educated office workers? My guess is most likely not. The life expectancy is lower here due to higher murder rates, which yes is horrible but doesn’t usually affect educated office workers.

The education claim you make is debatable. Take Finland. Constantly praised for its educational system but their economy is in terrible condition. If their education system is so great then why are there so few innovations and companies coming out if Finland? Why is there such a high unemployment rate? Who cares how great of an education you get if you can’t get a high paying job, start your own business etc?

Leisure time can also be debunked. My European friends work less (and earn way less), but they also have to use their free time to clean their house, work on their garden etc. On my Saturday I’m not doing chores and they are.

So you debunk anything that isn’t directly relevant to your precious educated existence? It’s odd that your reference point in the US is a sample of exactly one - you. The life expectancy of people who don’t work in offices doesn’t count?

The U.S.’s premature death rate (deaths per 100,000 people under age 70) in 2021 was almost twice the average of these similarly large and wealthy countries. 46% of the difference was due to chronic diseases and substance abuse. Not murder.

Among 15 to 49-year-olds, the U.S. death rate was 2.5 times that of comparable countries largely due to chronic disease. I guess your rejoinder is that they are all uneducated and therefore who cares?

Finland has a population of 5 million people so exactly what are you expecting? What sort of capital markets do you expect in Finland? $60,000 GDP per capita it’s hardly terrible. Plus the government is 82% of GDP versus 122% for the US.

Congratulations on maximising your leisure time. In my own extensive survey, I spend part of my weekend working on my garden and do my own cleaning while my friends in London have cleaners and spend many of their weekends visiting cities on the continent. What conclusions should I draw?

NP- There is no country the same size/population as the US, especially not in Europe, so you are always comparing apples to oranges. Closest would be Brazil.

[Anonymous]

I'm amazed some of you have all these stats and info at your fingertips that you can post them in minutes. It's not normal. Posting long lists of companies is also meaningless. Europe has by world standards affluent economies. America is just significantly richer. The growth in the American economy vastly outstripped the EU economies and Britain, American companies are much bigger and richer.

Anyway, you can live well in Europe. But as someone who actually lived in European countries (UK and Germany) the reality is murkier than what may be implied by the claims on here and there's a lot of apples and oranges involved. I'd be the first to agree the American poor have it harder. And weaknesses in American quality of life metrics can be isolated in ways that makes sense. We have more violence, absolutely, on the other hand 90%+ of Americans live just as safely as people in Europe. We have poorer health metrics, partly due to the poor, but it's lifestyle, not access to healthcare. And there's definitely poor unhealthy people in Europe. But your typical DCUMer isn't going to have worse health or lower life expectancy.

It all comes down to a society that traded safetyism for greater autonomy. You find more variations in outcomes. It reflects a classic political debate.

But I will conclude my last post here by pointing out Europe is also rapidly changing, despite that mentioning it clearly triggers some people. The wealth in Europe accrues to the elderly, and younger generations feel poorer and locked out of the kinds of pensions and early retirements their parents and grandparents enjoyed. Or even housing. Which, if you'd actually spent time in Europe and followed politics and commentaries in various countries, you'd know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone who spent most of career working for European comanies in the USA here are main reasons.
1) we get paid more
2) we pay less tax
3) We own far more US Stock which has been on a tear the last 18 years
4) companies grant RSUs unlike Europe
5) no Vat tax on purchases.
6) more likely to own real estate which also been way up.

My boss in Europe made less then me in the USA who reported to him. Paid more taxes, lived in a rental and owned hardly any stocks.

Now an unemployed person, person who company gives no medical, parents with kids in college and young moms looking for cheap child care better in Europe but even with all that the salary does not make up for it.

Only 17% of U.S. corporate equities are held by foreigners globally. So that means out of every country in world so individual countries own very little. They missed whole Equity run up.

I was on vacation in Portugal last year and was shocked at amount of older people who did not own homes complaning rents are rising and investors are coming in from US buying homes. Well the two best ways to grown wealth is stocks and real estate. The average US worker has a house and a 401k, the average European does not. Only 47.2 percent of Germans own a home.

In Europe the ceiling is way lower and the floor is way higher. The US is like the lottery, people buy tickets for a chance to strike it rich. You won, but the stats show that increasingly the odds are not in people's favor. The cost of housing, education, and medical care have been going up quickly though. It's not clear how much longer it'll last.

This is literally the opposite of what the stats show. That was way back at the start of the thread… the average American is way better off than the average European.

In a wealthy area like this one the difference is night and day. (And yes, I have lived in Europe).

I love Europe and might move back but that is all made possible because of the millions I have made by saving and investing here. It would have been impossible for me to do the same thing there.

No that is literally not what the stats show (unless you look at a single stat on income and not the many facets of well being.).

To summarize the dozens of posts on this thread that you haven’t bothered to read:
1) Yes people in the US have higher incomes on average.

2) But compared to Europe, life expectancy in the USA is lower, educational outcomes are lower and leisure time is lower.

So clearly money can’t buy everything.

+1

Also, "the average" doesn't tell the whole story. It'd be more helpful to look at the distributions of income across the populations.

What are the median incomes? 25/75th percentiles?

And what does life look like for the median income family? 25th percentile, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm amazed some of you have all these stats and info at your fingertips that you can post them in minutes. It's not normal. Posting long lists of companies is also meaningless. Europe has by world standards affluent economies. America is just significantly richer. The growth in the American economy vastly outstripped the EU economies and Britain, American companies are much bigger and richer.

Anyway, you can live well in Europe. But as someone who actually lived in European countries (UK and Germany) the reality is murkier than what may be implied by the claims on here and there's a lot of apples and oranges involved. I'd be the first to agree the American poor have it harder. And weaknesses in American quality of life metrics can be isolated in ways that makes sense. We have more violence, absolutely, on the other hand 90%+ of Americans live just as safely as people in Europe. We have poorer health metrics, partly due to the poor, but it's lifestyle, not access to healthcare. And there's definitely poor unhealthy people in Europe. But your typical DCUMer isn't going to have worse health or lower life expectancy.

It all comes down to a society that traded safetyism for greater autonomy. You find more variations in outcomes. It reflects a classic political debate.

But I will conclude my last post here by pointing out Europe is also rapidly changing, despite that mentioning it clearly triggers some people. The wealth in Europe accrues to the elderly, and younger generations feel poorer and locked out of the kinds of pensions and early retirements their parents and grandparents enjoyed. Or even housing. Which, if you'd actually spent time in Europe and followed politics and commentaries in various countries, you'd know.

What is safetyism?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They are all far richer than we are, they have free education childcare elder care and healthcare.
Whoever thinks we are better off is insane.

How are they far richer than we all are? Over and over on this thread, people have posted median and average salaries that show you're incorrect.

Education is free in USA. We also have medicaid if you are poor.

FTFY. Some education is free in the USA. Private universities charge $90k a year for college in the USA compared to having tertiary education at a minimal cost in most of Europe. And you should try talking to a parent of a child under the age of 5 paying 30k a year for daycare so they can work, which would be free through state sponsored providers in most of Europe.

But most European countries don’t provide care for young babies. They have decided to pay women low wages to stay home with babies. Everyone thinks it’s great but I wouldn’t have wanted to stay home for $350 a week in London. Then you have another kid and are expected to stay home another year, and it’s why women can’t go far in that job market.

if european childcare is so great why do they have year long parental leave? lol

Because parents WANT to take care of their children.

+1. There are some true idiots on this thread. Being able to spend longer home with your baby is something many parents long to do. It’s also better for your kids’ health and developmental outcomes.

+2 Most parents feed their kids well. Having a Mediterranean seafood salad and growing vegetables in their garden is common. Many “cucina povera” dishes are considered a luxury here in the U.S..