I'm an MCPS elementary school teacher...AMA

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The conversation about experienced teachers is ignoring that there is indeed a lot of turnover and transfers within the district, and that when push comes to shove a school will hire someone who may not be right or ready for the position, but that they need a warm body. All of which feeds into the turn-over cycle, as they get chewed up or burnt-out. There simply aren’t enough well-trained teachers currently in the system, and MCPS Careers does not quite reflect that reality, unfortunately.

MCPS does not publish turnover data. My kid has had 4 teachers so far and 3 of them are highly experienced (15+ years). The 4th was new and I thought she was lovely, though the experienced ones were better.

[Anonymous]

A shame, too, that they don’t, as I’ve worked in other industries, where the turnover rates were made available, sometimes publicly, usually internally, because it did cost the companies money to have to train someone new, each time an employee left.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Okay, guys, please take the teacher compensation discussion to a different thread if you want to keep talking about it. If we have one or more elementary school teachers here willing to give candid responses to our questions, I think we should keep this thread focused on that.

OP here....
I'm still here and ready to give candid responses to questions!! Let me know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m quickly chiming in as a full-time substitute, at times, and I’ve observed that a lot of behavioral issues are indeed with boys, though they seem to be somewhat diminished when I’m there. (For context I’m male.) I think it’s a combination of issues at play, though I note with interest that the times I’ve had to contact parents about their son (or daughter) that sometimes I get a brush-off. (Or in extreme cases when the school wants to send them home, the parents refuse to pick them up, citing that their children are our problem.)

I have tried to get hired for full-time work with the district for years now, as I’m often able to engage and teach students, but it seems like schools like to hire internally, often people with no experience in that given field, and the turnover is more than it should be. Having said that, I am also not fluent in Spanish, and I regret that, as that would be even moreso helpful in reaching my students. So it goes.

With regards to the Boxlight, it’s just a replacement for the chalk board, as it were, no more, no less. The times I've done read-alouds, I’ve borrowed digital copies from the public library and move the pages with a presentation clicker. This allows all my students to see the pages blown up, rather than trying to show off a physical copy. I’m also able to walk around the room, making sure everyone is paying attention and not acting up.

The funny thing is that I’m old enough to remember taking computer classes in elementary school, on IBM PCjrs, learning BASIC, and getting fast on word processors and typewriters. And I distinctly recall, at the time, people saying that all that access to video games (Atari and later N64, for me) and even home computers was going to rot our brains. It’s a miracle anyone survived the 1980s and 1990s, if so. \s (When I went to college Netscape was just being adopted and then, oh boy, we had AOL, Geocities, and so much more. And card catalogs went the way of the dodo.)

So, I don’t think technology (or the amount of it) is necessarily the issue, so much as the implementation, as with anything with MCPS. So much is rolled out without proper integration with the curriculum or the right training to make it work best for the teacher and for the students.

Teachers are doing the best they can with what they have. There are just so many other variables at play that it’s hard to say that it’s just one or two that need to be tackled, rather than a basket full of them.

Thanks for serving as a sub! I don't get how you would not be hired permanently given that there is a teacher shortage, especially given your experience in MCPS. What needs to change about the hiring system?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And fyi the "we're so underpaid" is just false, I am sorry but it is. I don't think teachers are overpaid either. I think the compensation is well in line with those for other jobs requiring similar education (but no, it's not in line with inflated tech salaries - guess what you still have a job and thousands of them don't so joke's on them)

I’m a 2nd year teacher making 63k, and I work tons of overtime.

You think that’s paid well?

Um... yes! $63k is a great salary for a little over a year of experience and summers off.

Teacher here - Summers off is not a perk for everyone - we have to save money on our own. It’s 10 weeks of unpaid leave. I don’t consider that a perk. The majority of teachers that I know, especially the single parents, struggle financially over the summer and then struggle to catch up with the usual 1.5 paychecks in December. Many teachers are desperate to line up summer jobs come April.

63k doesn’t go very far when rent for a 1br apartment is $1800+ even in cities further out like Frederick.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And fyi the "we're so underpaid" is just false, I am sorry but it is. I don't think teachers are overpaid either. I think the compensation is well in line with those for other jobs requiring similar education (but no, it's not in line with inflated tech salaries - guess what you still have a job and thousands of them don't so joke's on them)

I’m a 2nd year teacher making 63k, and I work tons of overtime.

You think that’s paid well?

Um... yes! $63k is a great salary for a little over a year of experience and summers off.

Are you ten years old? Summers aren’t “off.” We aren’t paid. We have ten month contracts. Try and keep up.

Most salaried workers do not have the option to not work during the summer. We work or we lose our jobs.

If the unpaid summer is such a benefit to you, please consider switching professions. We need more teachers.

(Apparently those unpaid summers aren’t a big enough perk to keep many of us in the profession, but maybe it’s enough for you.)

+1. The bizarre thing about these conversations about teacher pay is that they're always theoretical and divorced from the reality of the fact that we don't have enough teachers. A salary and benefits are "great" if they attract enough people who want the job, not if someone who doesn't want the job thinks they sound great.

The fact that MCPS has so many experienced teachers suggests that they are staying because of the pay. The teacher shortage in Montgomery County (currently I see 174 vacant positions) is likely due to poor working conditions. Truly low paying jobs like childcare do not have the majority of staff working there over 15 years.

The majority of teachers who’ve been with MCPS for >15 years aren’t willing to walk away from their pension. It doesn’t necessarily mean they’re happy with their job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: Thanks for serving as a sub! I don't get how you would not be hired permanently given that there is a teacher shortage, especially given your experience in MCPS. What needs to change about the hiring system?

This is a complicated situation, I’m afraid. It’s not easy to point at something and to say that this one thing needs to change. It may be a culture. It may be a process. It may be something entirely else . . . or it’s a combination of issues. One, I think, that MCPS may suffer from a cliquish approach to hiring, wherein the preference is to one’s friends, whether internally or externally, whether or not they actually are perfect for that job. (Knowing the turnover rate (and transfer rate) might answer this, partially. Two, that MCPS may lean towards reverse sexism, in that it is frowned-upon to have male staff members on the elementary level. This one may be a stretch, except to say at a quick glance around, men make up a few percentage points of the particular position I want, which is practically nonexistent. This could be simply a reflection of what percentage of male applicants actually exist and want that job, so that may not mean much. Teaching on this level has been traditionally female-dominated, for a number of (good) reasons. Three, that MCPS often doesn’t seem to know how to hire, quickly, or efficiently, and in trying to ape the business world, often trips over itself, and may well lose talented individuals through their fumbling. Four, that central office should send all resumes to the school, instead of winnowing it down to just a few candidates. and let the school work it out which ones may fit their particular culture / staff requirements. Five, perhaps be more transparent about the process. It’s very hard to get explanations or even responses. It’s a black hole. And then it just gets frustrating and people just throw their hands up and leave the field. It shouldn’t be this hard or complicated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay, guys, please take the teacher compensation discussion to a different thread if you want to keep talking about it. If we have one or more elementary school teachers here willing to give candid responses to our questions, I think we should keep this thread focused on that.

OP here....
I'm still here and ready to give candid responses to questions!! Let me know.

Thanks!

Is there any way to bring up wanting your kid to receive enrichment that is likely to be actually productive and helpful? (Or should we assume that if they are not, it either means that either 1) the teacher wants to but can't due to other demands they're juggling; 2) the teacher doesn't think your kid needs enrichment and will likely be annoyed at you saying they do; or 3) the teacher doesn't really care about providing enrichment? And that none of these things will likely be helped by hearing from you on it?)

If there is some potential benefit to the conversation, any suggestions on what to say and how? Is this different for, say, kindergarten versus 2nd grade? Assume the kid is not a super-genius several years above grade-level, just an ordinary smart kid feeling bored and unchallenged by the regular curriculum.

[Anonymous]

During our PT conference, my kid's teacher (grade 4), said my child's spelling was the only part of their academic performance that was below average, but that they didn't have many suggestions on how we could help support our child in that area because our child was a good reader.

Any suggestions on how we can help our kid?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And fyi the "we're so underpaid" is just false, I am sorry but it is. I don't think teachers are overpaid either. I think the compensation is well in line with those for other jobs requiring similar education (but no, it's not in line with inflated tech salaries - guess what you still have a job and thousands of them don't so joke's on them)

I’m a 2nd year teacher making 63k, and I work tons of overtime.

You think that’s paid well?

Um... yes! $63k is a great salary for a little over a year of experience and summers off.

This person has more than two years of experience (and maybe quite a bit more, depending on whether they have a master’s)—time in student teaching is not nothing.

Let’s say teachers are working 50 hr weeks (which I think is a conservative estimate) and adjust to 42 weeks a year factoring in summer.

This person is being paid $30 an hour. They do also get benefits (though they are substantially degraded from even a few years ago) and the weeks off for winter and spring breaks.

If you insist on factoring in those weeks as “time off” (as though salaried professionals in other field don’t also get leave they take mostly in these periods), it’s $32.30 an hour.

The problem is you think most people are making so much more, and they really aren't, especially straight out of grad school.

Btw there are about 260 work days in the year. Most full time salaried workers get 2-3 weeks of leave per year or 10-15 days. Meaning assuming they take those days, they are working for 245-250 days of the year for their contracted salary. You do the math about who has more work days before "overtime". Many salaried workers end up working nights and weekends.

No, I do not "think most people are making so much more."

I know that people with comparable education, and who we as a society trust with comparable responsibility--RNs, for example--make more.

More salaried professionals should join unions, but that is neither here nor there. I am a salaried professional and have not had fewer than four weeks of annual leave at any point in a 25-year career.

Crabs dragging one another back into a pot is no way to produce a thriving populace.

[Anonymous]

I’m a mom of a boy and a girl and I do wonder if teachers realize how their language comes across to those boys that are well behaved. I hear teachers just yelling “boys!!!!” Or talking loudly about how all the boys in the class are crazy. I have heard this from multiple teachers just from my limited time in the school. Apparently they think this is fine to say offhandedly to other adults in front of the kids fairly often. I have followed up later and said hey I am would really like to know what Larlo is doing, we are big believers in supporting behavior at home and I would like to address any issues in real time. And then they say “ oh no Larlo is fine! It’s really mostly X,Y and Z.” But honestly there is a lot of yelling “boys!!” And talking about how wild “all the boys” are. Indiscriminately.

[Anonymous]

What would you tell a college kid who is considering teaching? My HS senior daughter is trying to figure out what she'd like to do for a career. She gravitates toward teaching. I think she worries about the salary. But more than that, most of her HS teachers have been telling her to absolutely not do it.

They have different reasons, but the most salient seem to be unruly kids and entitled parents. Most recently, a teacher told her that so many parents push and complain and threaten to sue and actually sue that the job is terrible. She said that some kids just don't do the smallest amount of work and their parents tell the teacher not to push them due to mental health concerns and they want the kid to graduate but the kid has turned in almost nothing all semester.

It sounds like when teachers try to encourage kids to challenge themselves and learn, they are thwarted. Making an already difficult job completely unsatisfying.

This was the most recent conversation she's had, but she's been reporting teacher comments discouraging the teaching profession since freshman year.

Is she just catching teachers venting at times of stress (which we all face) or is this a real thing such that kids should avoid the profession?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And fyi the "we're so underpaid" is just false, I am sorry but it is. I don't think teachers are overpaid either. I think the compensation is well in line with those for other jobs requiring similar education (but no, it's not in line with inflated tech salaries - guess what you still have a job and thousands of them don't so joke's on them)

I’m a 2nd year teacher making 63k, and I work tons of overtime.

You think that’s paid well?

Um... yes! $63k is a great salary for a little over a year of experience and summers off.

This person has more than two years of experience (and maybe quite a bit more, depending on whether they have a master’s)—time in student teaching is not nothing.

Let’s say teachers are working 50 hr weeks (which I think is a conservative estimate) and adjust to 42 weeks a year factoring in summer.

This person is being paid $30 an hour. They do also get benefits (though they are substantially degraded from even a few years ago) and the weeks off for winter and spring breaks.

If you insist on factoring in those weeks as “time off” (as though salaried professionals in other field don’t also get leave they take mostly in these periods), it’s $32.30 an hour.

The problem is you think most people are making so much more, and they really aren't, especially straight out of grad school.

Btw there are about 260 work days in the year. Most full time salaried workers get 2-3 weeks of leave per year or 10-15 days. Meaning assuming they take those days, they are working for 245-250 days of the year for their contracted salary. You do the math about who has more work days before "overtime". Many salaried workers end up working nights and weekends.

No, I do not "think most people are making so much more."

I know that people with comparable education, and who we as a society trust with comparable responsibility--RNs, for example--make more.

More salaried professionals should join unions, but that is neither here nor there. I am a salaried professional and have not had fewer than four weeks of annual leave at any point in a 25-year career.

Crabs dragging one another back into a pot is no way to produce a thriving populace.

None of the hospital systems in Montgomery County offer pensions for their employees. RNs are eligible for overtime which offers an opportunity for increased pay, but many nurse jobs are shift jobs which are the opposite of family friendly.

Of course it would be great if everyone had more money, including teachers. I do not think that is realistic for teachers as long as pay is primarily based on tenure and not performance (and I'm not talking about test scores).

[Anonymous]

And the above are also reasons why nationally the nursing shortage is worse than the teaching shortage

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Leveled classes would help so much for all students and teachers. Why MCPS won’t allow it is beyond me.

I was friends with an admin (not this district) who was responsible for making the classes and asked exactly what goes into it. She said "certain students are harder to teach, maybe for behavioral reasons or because theyre behind academically. So we want to make sure those students are divided evenly between the classes so no one teacher gets too many in their roster. The same with the easy kids, it wouldnt be fair if one teacher got a class of little angels who are advanced. It would be bad for everyone's morale."

This is 100 percent the reason we don’t have meaningful enrichment time anymore. There is enough of a correlation between advanced kids and well behaved kids that pulling those kids out into a separate class apparently leaves behind other classes that are unmanageable to the teachers. Our principal told us the push is coming from central office. At our school the compacted math and the ELC (when we used to have ELC) classes were larger than the average class, so by pulling those students in to a single class, the on level students actually had smaller class sizes. But apparently this was still not enough (for who, I don’t know. Possibly the principal of the school’s perception of what the Central office wanted?)

So my question OP is if you feel there should be meaningful instruction for above level students and if you have voiced this to your administrators. I know many parents are worried compacted math will get dissolved as well now that ELC has been demolished and it would be nice to know that at least some teachers support the students who love learning.