Need an outside perspective

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here. Thinking about this more, his reaction is similar to my son’s reaction when he makes a mistake. And that helps me have a little bit more compassion.

When my son accidentally breaks something or hurts me or whatever, he automatically starts blaming me and yelling at me saying it was my fault, even when I don’t even say anything.

I guess it is sort of a defensive reaction.

Are you joking?
That kind of oppositional defiant disorder behavior destroys relationships and reputations.
Unacceptable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op here. Thinking about this more, his reaction is similar to my son’s reaction when he makes a mistake. And that helps me have a little bit more compassion.

When my son accidentally breaks something or hurts me or whatever, he automatically starts blaming me and yelling at me saying it was my fault, even when I don’t even say anything.

I guess it is sort of a defensive reaction.

Are you joking?
That kind of oppositional defiant disorder behavior destroys relationships and reputations.
Unacceptable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I woke up early to start working on a stock to make a family soup recipe. I bought the bones last night. Started cooking them today in a huge pot. I use a specific method for the stock, which is a bit time intensive, but it makes for a good, clean and milky delicious broth, with meat that falls off the bone. It was pretty much finished, after about 3 hours total of boiling/simmering.

I had to run out for an errand, and when I returned, I was shocked to see that my husband had thrown out the entire pot of stock. Hours of work out the window. I gasped and said “why did you throw out my stock?!”

He basically rolled his eyes and said I was overreacting and said my reaction was completely inappropriate. That I was acting like he killed somebody. Which made me even more upset. He said I was the one who left it unattended, and how was he was he to know that he wasn’t supposed to throw it out.

I said I was mad because I’d been working on it all morning and then for him to throw it out and then turn it around and blame me for it was really what made it a lot worse.

He said I was acting as if he did it to intentionally hurt or harm me, and that he didn’t want to argue about it, and that he’d talk to me about my communication issues when I was able to be rational and calm about it.

Everything he was saying was making me feel crazy. I feel destabilized. Why am I the villain in this?

What is happening here?

You sound a bit hysterical and probably do have communications issues.

Remember this old saying, "The less a person says, the more they are heard."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Had you left the stove on with the pot still simmering on it but not told him OR

Did he come downstairs to a pot that was not on the stove and full of a murky, dirty looking liquid?

Was he cleaning up the kitchen?

I know everyone thinks that every husband is an abuser and psychobabble gets thrown around - and you have written this in a way that ensures that happens. Would he write it the same way? Without being a fly on the wall, I take all these my husband is the worst human on the planet and I am an absolute saint who never does anything wrong but he treats me like he is Satan himself posts with a gran of salt.

When men complain about abusive wives, the responses are always that only abusers complain about being abused and that the one saying they are abused is the abuser and is responsible.

It was on the stove cooling after I had just turned it ofd. I believe he honestly did not know I was making stock and so he dumped it out. That is frustrating but easy to forgive. The part I found infuriating was his reaction.

His reaction to how YOU handled his mistake?

Um, he didn’t even say he was sorry.

Um, you were wanting a sorry for something he did on accident. Which is fine, I will apologize for things I didn't mean to do when they have an unintended outcome, but if I stepped on someone's toe and before I knew I had done it they got mad at me about it I think I'd have a much different reaction than if I knew I did it and could say I was sorry before they spoke.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He was nice enough to do dishes.

He made a mistake.

You acted like he did it on purpose.

He got defensive.

You got defensive.

Should have…

Did u clean the pot?
Yes.

Omg I made stock for dinner and it was cooling in the broth. (You don’t assume he knows)

Then he should be like holy sh!t, sorry.

Then you can be sad /bummed/etc but move on.

To clarify, he strained the bones and meat out and saved those. Just threw out all the broth. I think he assumes I was just cooking the bones and meat and not intending to keep the stock.

OMG. He thought he was helping and you got mad at him. Even though he did the wrong thing I can see him being tired of you going after him for something he did that he thought was helpful.

You shouldn’t “help” by doing random things that no one’s asked of you.

Says someone who has clearly never lived with someone and has no children...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand what OP should have communicated to her husband here.

If I had a pot of stock on the stove, I might tell DH before I run out that I have something on the stove, I might not, depending on how long the errand takes. He probably would have been in the kitchen with me at some point and I would have told him about it.

But I would never expect that an adult man would just throw out a pot of food on the stove without asking what I'm doing. That behavior makes no sense, unless her DH either A. hates the soup she is making and is malicious enough to throw it out instead of telling her not to make it, B. is a psychopath trying to upset her and make her feel crazy.

There has to be more to this story.

Maybe he thought she was boiling the bones for a dog or something. I am not defending him because I think his behavior is atrocious but I it's possible he was trying to help as opposed to trying to be a jerk. I agree if he tossed it knowing OP had been working on it for hours that's almost even worse than how he handled the subsequent exchange. My guess was he thought he was being helpful and then OP was upset with him and then he became an ahole. Again, not defending him, just wondering why he threw it out and I don't think it was to be a jerk, although I could be wrong.

But wouldn’t you ask first? This feels deliberately malicious.

Maybe? I've definitely put stuff in the wash (I do all the laundry for the whole house) that someone said wasn't dirty. I was like oh well it was hanging on the back of your chair so I thought I should wash it. I'd apologize if they then wanted to wear that item and it was still in the washing machine but I wouldn't have deliberately sabotaged their outfit. So no, I don't think what he did sounds deliberately malicious, especially since (and maybe you didn't see this, this thread has gotten long) I'm pretty sure OP said he didn't do it on purpose and he did strain the bones and meat out so it's not like he threw away the whole thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You have a husband problem.
Tell us how the marriage is outside of this ?

It’s mostly good. When I get upset about a mistake he made- throwing out something of mine, breaking something of mine, that’s when this behavior comes out, and it’s so distressing to me.

How hard of a time are you giving him about a MISTAKE he made? Of course even if it was a mistake you should apologize to someone if you did something to them but I also wouldn't be too hard on someone who accidentally threw something out. Yes, it's careless, and I have a right to be upset about it, but they didn't do it on purpose...

Great, if this was a one-time mistake, a grown man should have no problem apologizing and vowing to not do that again.

But that ain’t how he handled his mistake, is it?

Now if he has a pattern of repeat “mistakes” or similar behaviors, that’s a different issue.

You're right, he should have no trouble apologizing for what he did. But when his wife came at him like he had done it on purpose, I can see how he was rocked back on his heels. Should he have had a better response? Absolutely. Should she have handled it better when she walked in the door? Absolutely.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You have a husband problem.
Tell us how the marriage is outside of this ?

It’s mostly good. When I get upset about a mistake he made- throwing out something of mine, breaking something of mine, that’s when this behavior comes out, and it’s so distressing to me.

How hard of a time are you giving him about a MISTAKE he made? Of course even if it was a mistake you should apologize to someone if you did something to them but I also wouldn't be too hard on someone who accidentally threw something out. Yes, it's careless, and I have a right to be upset about it, but they didn't do it on purpose...

Great, if this was a one-time mistake, a grown man should have no problem apologizing and vowing to not do that again.

But that ain’t how he handled his mistake, is it?

Now if he has a pattern of repeat “mistakes” or similar behaviors, that’s a different issue.

You're right, he should have no trouble apologizing for what he did. But when his wife came at him like he had done it on purpose, I can see how he was rocked back on his heels. Should he have had a better response? Absolutely. Should she have handled it better when she walked in the door? Absolutely.

Again if he has a pattern of this carelessness and being inconsiderate, then there is no end in sight. He’s a moron bully who escalates things when his rude mistakes are uncovered and others feelings are hurt.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You have a husband problem.
Tell us how the marriage is outside of this ?

It’s mostly good. When I get upset about a mistake he made- throwing out something of mine, breaking something of mine, that’s when this behavior comes out, and it’s so distressing to me.

How hard of a time are you giving him about a MISTAKE he made? Of course even if it was a mistake you should apologize to someone if you did something to them but I also wouldn't be too hard on someone who accidentally threw something out. Yes, it's careless, and I have a right to be upset about it, but they didn't do it on purpose...

Great, if this was a one-time mistake, a grown man should have no problem apologizing and vowing to not do that again.

But that ain’t how he handled his mistake, is it?

Now if he has a pattern of repeat “mistakes” or similar behaviors, that’s a different issue.

You're right, he should have no trouble apologizing for what he did. But when his wife came at him like he had done it on purpose, I can see how he was rocked back on his heels. Should he have had a better response? Absolutely. Should she have handled it better when she walked in the door? Absolutely.

So convenient that she came at him.

So convenient that he was non responsive when OP originally asked what happened several times.

Being non responsive escalates things.

Apologizing and responding would have nipped this in the bud and no one would be talking about it right now.

See how that works?

[Anonymous]

It's interesting how everyone recommends therapy. I personally don't think therapy has its limits, and I don't see it helping people with issues as deep seated and fundamental as OP and her husband.

[Anonymous]

This exact script has played out many times in our relationship in one form or other. Although we've talked it out, I admit I still don't feel 100% better and I notice that I'm just not myself and I can't just immediately go back to being warm and loving to him. The fact that it repeats, feels like reopening a half-healed wound, and it triggers a lot of old hurt and frustration for me.

It's a vicious cycle that has been repeating, due to our differences and incompatibilities. Maybe I veer to being a control freak in certain areas (like meal prep), and maybe HE veers towards the opposite end, combined with carelessness. And then add to that formula - we both have incompatible and immature communication styles to work out the inevitable conflict that our differences cause.

We both have had to change and compromise a LOT on just basic household management stuff, because of our differences and incompatibilities. And we have problem solved around many of our incompatibilities.

If we were just talking about the stock and there was no prior history, maybe this wouldn't have even been a thing. But when he throws out something of mine, that is definitely an old wound for me. And even though logically I know he does it unintentionally, in the moment, it FEELS very aggressive and like a violation to me, and then my whole body feels primed in preparation for him to deny doing it, painting me as "crazy" for making a big deal out of nothing, turning it around on me, and finally him crying and saying I think he's such a horrible person.

I feel like I was able to articulate clearly about this behavior that really upsets me, for the first time yesterday.
And I do think he was able to SEE it for the first time.
And I do think he does it automatically and unconsciously whenever he feels criticized.
And I do think he is extra sensitive to criticism because he's received it all his life, because he does struggle with things that most people typically do not....
...Things like hearing the exact opposite of what was said, or doing the exact opposite of what most people do, or simply not understanding the millions of assumptions that people take for granted, being clumsy or absent-minded and breaking/dropping/misplacing/discarding things, not knowing expectations and assumptions that most people take for granted, and for the most part, simply living by his own unique rules.

I am wary of bringing this up, because he is no longer the person he was when we first met, and I don't want to get stuck in the past. But as just one example how far we've come and to illustrate where we started: At the beginning of our relationship, I literally had to spell out for him and convince him why I didn't like being called a "f-ing B" when we were disagreeing, and it took years of convincing him that the goal of our disagreements wasn't to win at all costs. He thought, isn't that the whole point of fighting, to win? I had to sit down and teach him that yes, you might shut me down and win in the moment, but that also has a very expensive cost to the relationship. He did that with his family members too, until I taught him not to.

I recognize my part in perpetuating this cycle too. But all of the above is part of the reason that this is a work in progress for me.

[Anonymous]

I did not read all the previous replies.
I feel there is a lack of communications between you and your husband.
Also maybe he doesn’t like that broth and doesn’t know how to tell you. I used to cook from scratch complicated nutritious meals from my husband. Initially he seemed to appreciate it. One day I found out in shock that certain nights he just wanted a cold bowl of his favorite cereals (!!!!). I felt hurt when I discovered that but now we compromise having once in a while a ‘single night’ in which he can enjoy his favorite junk food

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's interesting how everyone recommends therapy. I personally don't think therapy has its limits, and I don't see it helping people with issues as deep seated and fundamental as OP and her husband.

I think OP and her husband both could benefit from individual therapy to unpack why they react they way they do to these situations. Once there is an understanding, it can help both the person having the negative reaction to figure out a way to rein that in as well as the person on the other end be a little more empathetic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I did not read all the previous replies.
I feel there is a lack of communications between you and your husband.
Also maybe he doesn’t like that broth and doesn’t know how to tell you. I used to cook from scratch complicated nutritious meals from my husband. Initially he seemed to appreciate it. One day I found out in shock that certain nights he just wanted a cold bowl of his favorite cereals (!!!!). I felt hurt when I discovered that but now we compromise having once in a while a ‘single night’ in which he can enjoy his favorite junk food

Lady, this is a whole other set of problems you have going on. Let OP work on her stuff in this thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This exact script has played out many times in our relationship in one form or other. Although we've talked it out, I admit I still don't feel 100% better and I notice that I'm just not myself and I can't just immediately go back to being warm and loving to him. The fact that it repeats, feels like reopening a half-healed wound, and it triggers a lot of old hurt and frustration for me.

It's a vicious cycle that has been repeating, due to our differences and incompatibilities. Maybe I veer to being a control freak in certain areas (like meal prep), and maybe HE veers towards the opposite end, combined with carelessness. And then add to that formula - we both have incompatible and immature communication styles to work out the inevitable conflict that our differences cause.

We both have had to change and compromise a LOT on just basic household management stuff, because of our differences and incompatibilities. And we have problem solved around many of our incompatibilities.

If we were just talking about the stock and there was no prior history, maybe this wouldn't have even been a thing. But when he throws out something of mine, that is definitely an old wound for me. And even though logically I know he does it unintentionally, in the moment, it FEELS very aggressive and like a violation to me, and then my whole body feels primed in preparation for him to deny doing it, painting me as "crazy" for making a big deal out of nothing, turning it around on me, and finally him crying and saying I think he's such a horrible person.

I feel like I was able to articulate clearly about this behavior that really upsets me, for the first time yesterday.
And I do think he was able to SEE it for the first time.
And I do think he does it automatically and unconsciously whenever he feels criticized.
And I do think he is extra sensitive to criticism because he's received it all his life, because he does struggle with things that most people typically do not....
...Things like hearing the exact opposite of what was said, or doing the exact opposite of what most people do, or simply not understanding the millions of assumptions that people take for granted, being clumsy or absent-minded and breaking/dropping/misplacing/discarding things, not knowing expectations and assumptions that most people take for granted, and for the most part, simply living by his own unique rules.

I am wary of bringing this up, because he is no longer the person he was when we first met, and I don't want to get stuck in the past. But as just one example how far we've come and to illustrate where we started: At the beginning of our relationship, I literally had to spell out for him and convince him why I didn't like being called a "f-ing B" when we were disagreeing, and it took years of convincing him that the goal of our disagreements wasn't to win at all costs. He thought, isn't that the whole point of fighting, to win? I had to sit down and teach him that yes, you might shut me down and win in the moment, but that also has a very expensive cost to the relationship. He did that with his family members too, until I taught him not to.

I recognize my part in perpetuating this cycle too. But all of the above is part of the reason that this is a work in progress for me.

Can I ask why you stayed with him? The first time someone called me that would be the last time.