Berkeley vs HYP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Berkeley definitely has a wow factor but HYP have a bit more wow factor.

“Wow” is not what comes to mind when I hear of a top student attending Berkeley oos.

“How” is the word that comes to mind. “How” could this process have been approached differently to get a better outcome?

lol, are you for real? Poor Berkeley students attending some of best programs in the country when they could have gone straight to UVA.

Mind boggling how complete ignoramuses imagine themselves seers of wisdom!

You are cherry picking rankings to make Berkeley look better than it is.

No question the undergrad experience at UVA is better than Berkeley.

State flagships tend to have an inflated reputation in their home state. Are you living in California? The rest of the country barely thinks about Berkeley at all. You are out of touch with reality.

Just so you know, opinions about Berkeley in California are probably as polarizing, if not more so, than OOS. We are more familiar with many issues related to housing, class availability and toxic competition. It isn’t romanticized. I know 2 kids from my son’s class who got accepted to Berkeley and then got off the waitlist for UCLA and will go there instead. It is a great fit for some but not others.

Polarizing not for Cal's status as public, but because of the reasons you mentioned and the fact that it has been destination for strange people.

Who are those strange people? UC’s still end up having strong undergrad programs. It’s fine if you don’t like the culture or student life and decide something else is better for you.

At our good CA public high school about 30% of all students apply to Berkeley, and 3% get admitted (10-15), the numbers are similar for UCLA. That’s in line with the admission rate of about 10% for both Cal and UCLA. They are top students, the admission is very competitive.

HYPSM admission rate is about 5%, so they are more competitive, although some programs at Berkeley like MET (dual engineering and business degree) have admission rates below 3%. For comparison UVA admission rate is 17%.

The truth is plenty of students want to go to Berkeley in and out of state.

This looks about right for good CA public schools. It also holds for most good privates as well with acceptances in line with the overall average for UCLA and UCB.

In my experience there is a difference between public and private in terms of who attends UCB. At most of the top bay area privates the very top students do not covet (or attend UCB or UCLA). They mostly target top privates as their first choice. My top 5% kid did this as well with no interest in attending UCB based on her experience living in the bay area and knowing who went from her school. The school CCs actually ask the very top kids not to apply to UCLA and UCB unless they are actually interested in attending because the acceptance rates never vary by more than a kid or two. The UCs seem to be much more attractive to top public school kids.

That makes a lot of sense. If you pay $50k a year in tuition at a private high school you’re not going to blink at $60k tuition at Stanford, if you’re competitive enough to be admitted. But all these schools are more or less lottery tickets, and it’s conceivable that most applicants, top 5% included, will not get in HYPSM. The admission strategy may or may not include Berkeley, but a decent number go there. For College Preparatory, an “elite” private high school in the Bay Area, Berkeley is the third most attended university after Chicago and Swarthmore. The attended universities list skews private, but again we’re talking people that are not concerned with cost. Either way Berkeley is there in the mix with Ivies, LACs, etc. I don’t know a single person that would look down at Cal as not worthy enough.

Not sure I understand the comment about knowing who went to Berkeley from her high school. Is it that she doesn’t want to mix with the poor, the nerdy, or the strivers? Seems kind of shallow to me.

I give credit to UC admissions, they do identify the top students, that can be clearly seen in my kids schools SCOIR data. Quite a few kids do go to UCB from her school every year but the very top students for the most part (some exceptions of course) do not consider UCB as a top choice. It's not looking down on UCB, it's the environment (which has been well covered) along with the crazy admissions process for the top UCs. There is also a very clear racial dimension in who chooses UCB among the top students at our school.

I'm not sure why you would insinuate that my child is shallow because she wasn't interested in UCB? Seems pretty shallow to me, especially since you know nothing about her except that she was in the top 5% of her class at a top Bay area private.

I’m saying you and your kid are shallow for discarding Berkeley because of “knowing who went from her school”. Your words, not mine, but please elaborate what you mean by that. Is it the “clear racial dimension in who chooses UCB”? You’re not helping your cause, it’s probably better for everyone she’s not interested in Berkeley.

Your logic is quite faulty, if “quite a few students go to Berkeley every year,” then that’s a good compromise between where they want to go and where they can get in. I doubt you have the insight to tell if they are top students or not, unless you have unrestricted access to their application. More likely you base your evaluation on what your daughter tells you, which I hope you realize it’s not a very reliable way to tell top students apart.

My kid isn't shallow, you are an idiot. The fact that the majority of kids from her school who want to attend UCB are Asian is what it is, a simple fact and nothing else. They are also Engineering/CS grinds to help clarify things for you.

Of course she knows who the top students are, every kid does because they take the same classes together. You might not know the quality of somebodies essays but if you think that your kid cannot tell you who the top students are you are delusional. They also get notified if they are ELC so the top 9% is obvious and there is an award for the top 5% so they all know that as well.

My kids didn't want to attend UCB because she fully understands the 'experience' because she has friends there and she wanted a better learning environment since she sees, hears about, and understands some of the challenges that go with attending UCB. She also didn't want to attend because she very smart but not pointy and most of the kids who really want to attend from her school are CS and engineering oriented kids who she doesn't really connect with in her closest friend group. She also had plenty of other choices so why choose something that doesn't fit your needs?

Finally, since you want to imply racism I will point out that she is half-Asian and looks Asian. So please take your implied racist rhetoric and wander off.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Reposting bc my blurb ended up in the middle of a quote.
This rings true for my son’s top Bay Area private. Most of the wealthy kids go to private universities. We could pay for private no problem. My son didn’t want to go out of state. He didn’t have the chops for my alma mater, Stanford, or for Cal, UCLA, Pomona or CMC. I wasn’t going to pay good money for Pitzer or Occidental. So he ended up Davis. He loves it there! The kids are just as smart as those at Cal but the learning is much more collaborative and there’s no gatekeeping with the clubs. I love that I’m spending less to educate, house and feed him than I did just to educate him at his SF private.

In other news the water is wet. There’s only two public schools in Top 20, UCB and UCLA. If you’re sensitive to affordability, and most public school students are, then you’re going to prefer them disproportionately compared to private school students which skew wealthier.

That doesn’t mean private students are not interested, just that they have more financial resources and options. They’ll still go to UCB and UCLA if they can’t get into a better program.

The desperation of predominantly public school kids competing in an academic knife fight to escape poverty doesn’t sound attractive to everyone. Life doesn’t have to be so toxic.

There’s many poor kids at the top private these days

Not the majority. This is by design.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Reposting bc my blurb ended up in the middle of a quote.
This rings true for my son’s top Bay Area private. Most of the wealthy kids go to private universities. We could pay for private no problem. My son didn’t want to go out of state. He didn’t have the chops for my alma mater, Stanford, or for Cal, UCLA, Pomona or CMC. I wasn’t going to pay good money for Pitzer or Occidental. So he ended up Davis. He loves it there! The kids are just as smart as those at Cal but the learning is much more collaborative and there’s no gatekeeping with the clubs. I love that I’m spending less to educate, house and feed him than I did just to educate him at his SF private.

I think that you made ended up in a great spot given the options that you mentioned. Davis is a great school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Reposting bc my blurb ended up in the middle of a quote.
This rings true for my son’s top Bay Area private. Most of the wealthy kids go to private universities. We could pay for private no problem. My son didn’t want to go out of state. He didn’t have the chops for my alma mater, Stanford, or for Cal, UCLA, Pomona or CMC. I wasn’t going to pay good money for Pitzer or Occidental. So he ended up Davis. He loves it there! The kids are just as smart as those at Cal but the learning is much more collaborative and there’s no gatekeeping with the clubs. I love that I’m spending less to educate, house and feed him than I did just to educate him at his SF private.

In other news the water is wet. There’s only two public schools in Top 20, UCB and UCLA. If you’re sensitive to affordability, and most public school students are, then you’re going to prefer them disproportionately compared to private school students which skew wealthier.

That doesn’t mean private students are not interested, just that they have more financial resources and options. They’ll still go to UCB and UCLA if they can’t get into a better program.

The desperation of predominantly public school kids competing in an academic knife fight to escape poverty doesn’t sound attractive to everyone. Life doesn’t have to be so toxic.

There’s many poor kids at the top private these days

Not the majority. This is by design.

Neither are public schools majority poor? In fact the flagships are pretty damn rich.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Reposting bc my blurb ended up in the middle of a quote.
This rings true for my son’s top Bay Area private. Most of the wealthy kids go to private universities. We could pay for private no problem. My son didn’t want to go out of state. He didn’t have the chops for my alma mater, Stanford, or for Cal, UCLA, Pomona or CMC. I wasn’t going to pay good money for Pitzer or Occidental. So he ended up Davis. He loves it there! The kids are just as smart as those at Cal but the learning is much more collaborative and there’s no gatekeeping with the clubs. I love that I’m spending less to educate, house and feed him than I did just to educate him at his SF private.

In other news the water is wet. There’s only two public schools in Top 20, UCB and UCLA. If you’re sensitive to affordability, and most public school students are, then you’re going to prefer them disproportionately compared to private school students which skew wealthier.

That doesn’t mean private students are not interested, just that they have more financial resources and options. They’ll still go to UCB and UCLA if they can’t get into a better program.

The desperation of predominantly public school kids competing in an academic knife fight to escape poverty doesn’t sound attractive to everyone. Life doesn’t have to be so toxic.

There’s many poor kids at the top private these days

Not the majority. This is by design.

Neither are public schools majority poor? In fact the flagships are pretty damn rich.

Nope, they tend to be from price sensitive families.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Reposting bc my blurb ended up in the middle of a quote.
This rings true for my son’s top Bay Area private. Most of the wealthy kids go to private universities. We could pay for private no problem. My son didn’t want to go out of state. He didn’t have the chops for my alma mater, Stanford, or for Cal, UCLA, Pomona or CMC. I wasn’t going to pay good money for Pitzer or Occidental. So he ended up Davis. He loves it there! The kids are just as smart as those at Cal but the learning is much more collaborative and there’s no gatekeeping with the clubs. I love that I’m spending less to educate, house and feed him than I did just to educate him at his SF private.

In other news the water is wet. There’s only two public schools in Top 20, UCB and UCLA. If you’re sensitive to affordability, and most public school students are, then you’re going to prefer them disproportionately compared to private school students which skew wealthier.

That doesn’t mean private students are not interested, just that they have more financial resources and options. They’ll still go to UCB and UCLA if they can’t get into a better program.

The desperation of predominantly public school kids competing in an academic knife fight to escape poverty doesn’t sound attractive to everyone. Life doesn’t have to be so toxic.

There’s many poor kids at the top private these days

Yes, private schools have a nicely curated assortment of poor kids so the rich are accustomed to them in the wild. Please!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Berkeley definitely has a wow factor but HYP have a bit more wow factor.

“Wow” is not what comes to mind when I hear of a top student attending Berkeley oos.

“How” is the word that comes to mind. “How” could this process have been approached differently to get a better outcome?

lol, are you for real? Poor Berkeley students attending some of best programs in the country when they could have gone straight to UVA.

Mind boggling how complete ignoramuses imagine themselves seers of wisdom!

You are cherry picking rankings to make Berkeley look better than it is.

No question the undergrad experience at UVA is better than Berkeley.

State flagships tend to have an inflated reputation in their home state. Are you living in California? The rest of the country barely thinks about Berkeley at all. You are out of touch with reality.

Just so you know, opinions about Berkeley in California are probably as polarizing, if not more so, than OOS. We are more familiar with many issues related to housing, class availability and toxic competition. It isn’t romanticized. I know 2 kids from my son’s class who got accepted to Berkeley and then got off the waitlist for UCLA and will go there instead. It is a great fit for some but not others.

Polarizing not for Cal's status as public, but because of the reasons you mentioned and the fact that it has been destination for strange people.

Who are those strange people? UC’s still end up having strong undergrad programs. It’s fine if you don’t like the culture or student life and decide something else is better for you.

At our good CA public high school about 30% of all students apply to Berkeley, and 3% get admitted (10-15), the numbers are similar for UCLA. That’s in line with the admission rate of about 10% for both Cal and UCLA. They are top students, the admission is very competitive.

HYPSM admission rate is about 5%, so they are more competitive, although some programs at Berkeley like MET (dual engineering and business degree) have admission rates below 3%. For comparison UVA admission rate is 17%.

The truth is plenty of students want to go to Berkeley in and out of state.

This looks about right for good CA public schools. It also holds for most good privates as well with acceptances in line with the overall average for UCLA and UCB.

In my experience there is a difference between public and private in terms of who attends UCB. At most of the top bay area privates the very top students do not covet (or attend UCB or UCLA). They mostly target top privates as their first choice. My top 5% kid did this as well with no interest in attending UCB based on her experience living in the bay area and knowing who went from her school. The school CCs actually ask the very top kids not to apply to UCLA and UCB unless they are actually interested in attending because the acceptance rates never vary by more than a kid or two. The UCs seem to be much more attractive to top public school kids.

That makes a lot of sense. If you pay $50k a year in tuition at a private high school you’re not going to blink at $60k tuition at Stanford, if you’re competitive enough to be admitted. But all these schools are more or less lottery tickets, and it’s conceivable that most applicants, top 5% included, will not get in HYPSM. The admission strategy may or may not include Berkeley, but a decent number go there. For College Preparatory, an “elite” private high school in the Bay Area, Berkeley is the third most attended university after Chicago and Swarthmore. The attended universities list skews private, but again we’re talking people that are not concerned with cost. Either way Berkeley is there in the mix with Ivies, LACs, etc. I don’t know a single person that would look down at Cal as not worthy enough.

Not sure I understand the comment about knowing who went to Berkeley from her high school. Is it that she doesn’t want to mix with the poor, the nerdy, or the strivers? Seems kind of shallow to me.

I give credit to UC admissions, they do identify the top students, that can be clearly seen in my kids schools SCOIR data. Quite a few kids do go to UCB from her school every year but the very top students for the most part (some exceptions of course) do not consider UCB as a top choice. It's not looking down on UCB, it's the environment (which has been well covered) along with the crazy admissions process for the top UCs. There is also a very clear racial dimension in who chooses UCB among the top students at our school.

I'm not sure why you would insinuate that my child is shallow because she wasn't interested in UCB? Seems pretty shallow to me, especially since you know nothing about her except that she was in the top 5% of her class at a top Bay area private.

I’m saying you and your kid are shallow for discarding Berkeley because of “knowing who went from her school”. Your words, not mine, but please elaborate what you mean by that. Is it the “clear racial dimension in who chooses UCB”? You’re not helping your cause, it’s probably better for everyone she’s not interested in Berkeley.

Your logic is quite faulty, if “quite a few students go to Berkeley every year,” then that’s a good compromise between where they want to go and where they can get in. I doubt you have the insight to tell if they are top students or not, unless you have unrestricted access to their application. More likely you base your evaluation on what your daughter tells you, which I hope you realize it’s not a very reliable way to tell top students apart.

My kid isn't shallow, you are an idiot. The fact that the majority of kids from her school who want to attend UCB are Asian is what it is, a simple fact and nothing else. They are also Engineering/CS grinds to help clarify things for you.

Of course she knows who the top students are, every kid does because they take the same classes together. You might not know the quality of somebodies essays but if you think that your kid cannot tell you who the top students are you are delusional. They also get notified if they are ELC so the top 9% is obvious and there is an award for the top 5% so they all know that as well.

My kids didn't want to attend UCB because she fully understands the 'experience' because she has friends there and she wanted a better learning environment since she sees, hears about, and understands some of the challenges that go with attending UCB. She also didn't want to attend because she very smart but not pointy and most of the kids who really want to attend from her school are CS and engineering oriented kids who she doesn't really connect with in her closest friend group. She also had plenty of other choices so why choose something that doesn't fit your needs?

Finally, since you want to imply racism I will point out that she is half-Asian and looks Asian. So please take your implied racist rhetoric and wander off.

Ok, let’s assume that when your said your kid didn’t want to apply to Berkeley “knowing who went from her school” she was referring to not fitting the mold of grindy, pointy, engineering/CS type Asian kids. Of course the stereotyping is not racist because she looks Asian and it’s just a simple fact and nothing else.

Curious where your top 5% student from a top private in the Bay Area ended up and in what major. I bet it’s not HYPSM because you’d have mentioned it multiple times by now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Berkeley definitely has a wow factor but HYP have a bit more wow factor.

“Wow” is not what comes to mind when I hear of a top student attending Berkeley oos.

“How” is the word that comes to mind. “How” could this process have been approached differently to get a better outcome?

lol, are you for real? Poor Berkeley students attending some of best programs in the country when they could have gone straight to UVA.

Mind boggling how complete ignoramuses imagine themselves seers of wisdom!

You are cherry picking rankings to make Berkeley look better than it is.

No question the undergrad experience at UVA is better than Berkeley.

State flagships tend to have an inflated reputation in their home state. Are you living in California? The rest of the country barely thinks about Berkeley at all. You are out of touch with reality.

Just so you know, opinions about Berkeley in California are probably as polarizing, if not more so, than OOS. We are more familiar with many issues related to housing, class availability and toxic competition. It isn’t romanticized. I know 2 kids from my son’s class who got accepted to Berkeley and then got off the waitlist for UCLA and will go there instead. It is a great fit for some but not others.

Polarizing not for Cal's status as public, but because of the reasons you mentioned and the fact that it has been destination for strange people.

Who are those strange people? UC’s still end up having strong undergrad programs. It’s fine if you don’t like the culture or student life and decide something else is better for you.

At our good CA public high school about 30% of all students apply to Berkeley, and 3% get admitted (10-15), the numbers are similar for UCLA. That’s in line with the admission rate of about 10% for both Cal and UCLA. They are top students, the admission is very competitive.

HYPSM admission rate is about 5%, so they are more competitive, although some programs at Berkeley like MET (dual engineering and business degree) have admission rates below 3%. For comparison UVA admission rate is 17%.

The truth is plenty of students want to go to Berkeley in and out of state.

This looks about right for good CA public schools. It also holds for most good privates as well with acceptances in line with the overall average for UCLA and UCB.

In my experience there is a difference between public and private in terms of who attends UCB. At most of the top bay area privates the very top students do not covet (or attend UCB or UCLA). They mostly target top privates as their first choice. My top 5% kid did this as well with no interest in attending UCB based on her experience living in the bay area and knowing who went from her school. The school CCs actually ask the very top kids not to apply to UCLA and UCB unless they are actually interested in attending because the acceptance rates never vary by more than a kid or two. The UCs seem to be much more attractive to top public school kids.

That makes a lot of sense. If you pay $50k a year in tuition at a private high school you’re not going to blink at $60k tuition at Stanford, if you’re competitive enough to be admitted. But all these schools are more or less lottery tickets, and it’s conceivable that most applicants, top 5% included, will not get in HYPSM. The admission strategy may or may not include Berkeley, but a decent number go there. For College Preparatory, an “elite” private high school in the Bay Area, Berkeley is the third most attended university after Chicago and Swarthmore. The attended universities list skews private, but again we’re talking people that are not concerned with cost. Either way Berkeley is there in the mix with Ivies, LACs, etc. I don’t know a single person that would look down at Cal as not worthy enough.

Not sure I understand the comment about knowing who went to Berkeley from her high school. Is it that she doesn’t want to mix with the poor, the nerdy, or the strivers? Seems kind of shallow to me.

I give credit to UC admissions, they do identify the top students, that can be clearly seen in my kids schools SCOIR data. Quite a few kids do go to UCB from her school every year but the very top students for the most part (some exceptions of course) do not consider UCB as a top choice. It's not looking down on UCB, it's the environment (which has been well covered) along with the crazy admissions process for the top UCs. There is also a very clear racial dimension in who chooses UCB among the top students at our school.

I'm not sure why you would insinuate that my child is shallow because she wasn't interested in UCB? Seems pretty shallow to me, especially since you know nothing about her except that she was in the top 5% of her class at a top Bay area private.

I’m saying you and your kid are shallow for discarding Berkeley because of “knowing who went from her school”. Your words, not mine, but please elaborate what you mean by that. Is it the “clear racial dimension in who chooses UCB”? You’re not helping your cause, it’s probably better for everyone she’s not interested in Berkeley.

Your logic is quite faulty, if “quite a few students go to Berkeley every year,” then that’s a good compromise between where they want to go and where they can get in. I doubt you have the insight to tell if they are top students or not, unless you have unrestricted access to their application. More likely you base your evaluation on what your daughter tells you, which I hope you realize it’s not a very reliable way to tell top students apart.

My kid isn't shallow, you are an idiot. The fact that the majority of kids from her school who want to attend UCB are Asian is what it is, a simple fact and nothing else. They are also Engineering/CS grinds to help clarify things for you.

Of course she knows who the top students are, every kid does because they take the same classes together. You might not know the quality of somebodies essays but if you think that your kid cannot tell you who the top students are you are delusional. They also get notified if they are ELC so the top 9% is obvious and there is an award for the top 5% so they all know that as well.

My kids didn't want to attend UCB because she fully understands the 'experience' because she has friends there and she wanted a better learning environment since she sees, hears about, and understands some of the challenges that go with attending UCB. She also didn't want to attend because she very smart but not pointy and most of the kids who really want to attend from her school are CS and engineering oriented kids who she doesn't really connect with in her closest friend group. She also had plenty of other choices so why choose something that doesn't fit your needs?

Finally, since you want to imply racism I will point out that she is half-Asian and looks Asian. So please take your implied racist rhetoric and wander off.

Be honest, your kids are just not competitive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Reposting bc my blurb ended up in the middle of a quote.
This rings true for my son’s top Bay Area private. Most of the wealthy kids go to private universities. We could pay for private no problem. My son didn’t want to go out of state. He didn’t have the chops for my alma mater, Stanford, or for Cal, UCLA, Pomona or CMC. I wasn’t going to pay good money for Pitzer or Occidental. So he ended up Davis. He loves it there! The kids are just as smart as those at Cal but the learning is much more collaborative and there’s no gatekeeping with the clubs. I love that I’m spending less to educate, house and feed him than I did just to educate him at his SF private.

I think that you made ended up in a great spot given the options that you mentioned. Davis is a great school.

UC Davis is a welcoming place for students, integrated into a pleasant college town, with Central Park, a gathering place with many community activities, just to the east of campus. It also has some cool quirky (in a good way) things for students to do, like volunteer as a programmer at KDVS, teach and take classes at the Experimental College and work at the Bike Barn. It is a Top50 school that isn't as socially and academically as stressful as many of the alternatives. Despite having over 30,000 students, it has preserved some of the small college vibe that it had in the 1960s and 1970s.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Berkeley definitely has a wow factor but HYP have a bit more wow factor.

“Wow” is not what comes to mind when I hear of a top student attending Berkeley oos.

“How” is the word that comes to mind. “How” could this process have been approached differently to get a better outcome?

lol, are you for real? Poor Berkeley students attending some of best programs in the country when they could have gone straight to UVA.

Mind boggling how complete ignoramuses imagine themselves seers of wisdom!

You are cherry picking rankings to make Berkeley look better than it is.

No question the undergrad experience at UVA is better than Berkeley.

State flagships tend to have an inflated reputation in their home state. Are you living in California? The rest of the country barely thinks about Berkeley at all. You are out of touch with reality.

Just so you know, opinions about Berkeley in California are probably as polarizing, if not more so, than OOS. We are more familiar with many issues related to housing, class availability and toxic competition. It isn’t romanticized. I know 2 kids from my son’s class who got accepted to Berkeley and then got off the waitlist for UCLA and will go there instead. It is a great fit for some but not others.

Polarizing not for Cal's status as public, but because of the reasons you mentioned and the fact that it has been destination for strange people.

Who are those strange people? UC’s still end up having strong undergrad programs. It’s fine if you don’t like the culture or student life and decide something else is better for you.

At our good CA public high school about 30% of all students apply to Berkeley, and 3% get admitted (10-15), the numbers are similar for UCLA. That’s in line with the admission rate of about 10% for both Cal and UCLA. They are top students, the admission is very competitive.

HYPSM admission rate is about 5%, so they are more competitive, although some programs at Berkeley like MET (dual engineering and business degree) have admission rates below 3%. For comparison UVA admission rate is 17%.

The truth is plenty of students want to go to Berkeley in and out of state.

This looks about right for good CA public schools. It also holds for most good privates as well with acceptances in line with the overall average for UCLA and UCB.

In my experience there is a difference between public and private in terms of who attends UCB. At most of the top bay area privates the very top students do not covet (or attend UCB or UCLA). They mostly target top privates as their first choice. My top 5% kid did this as well with no interest in attending UCB based on her experience living in the bay area and knowing who went from her school. The school CCs actually ask the very top kids not to apply to UCLA and UCB unless they are actually interested in attending because the acceptance rates never vary by more than a kid or two. The UCs seem to be much more attractive to top public school kids.

That makes a lot of sense. If you pay $50k a year in tuition at a private high school you’re not going to blink at $60k tuition at Stanford, if you’re competitive enough to be admitted. But all these schools are more or less lottery tickets, and it’s conceivable that most applicants, top 5% included, will not get in HYPSM. The admission strategy may or may not include Berkeley, but a decent number go there. For College Preparatory, an “elite” private high school in the Bay Area, Berkeley is the third most attended university after Chicago and Swarthmore. The attended universities list skews private, but again we’re talking people that are not concerned with cost. Either way Berkeley is there in the mix with Ivies, LACs, etc. I don’t know a single person that would look down at Cal as not worthy enough.

Not sure I understand the comment about knowing who went to Berkeley from her high school. Is it that she doesn’t want to mix with the poor, the nerdy, or the strivers? Seems kind of shallow to me.

I give credit to UC admissions, they do identify the top students, that can be clearly seen in my kids schools SCOIR data. Quite a few kids do go to UCB from her school every year but the very top students for the most part (some exceptions of course) do not consider UCB as a top choice. It's not looking down on UCB, it's the environment (which has been well covered) along with the crazy admissions process for the top UCs. There is also a very clear racial dimension in who chooses UCB among the top students at our school.

I'm not sure why you would insinuate that my child is shallow because she wasn't interested in UCB? Seems pretty shallow to me, especially since you know nothing about her except that she was in the top 5% of her class at a top Bay area private.

I’m saying you and your kid are shallow for discarding Berkeley because of “knowing who went from her school”. Your words, not mine, but please elaborate what you mean by that. Is it the “clear racial dimension in who chooses UCB”? You’re not helping your cause, it’s probably better for everyone she’s not interested in Berkeley.

Your logic is quite faulty, if “quite a few students go to Berkeley every year,” then that’s a good compromise between where they want to go and where they can get in. I doubt you have the insight to tell if they are top students or not, unless you have unrestricted access to their application. More likely you base your evaluation on what your daughter tells you, which I hope you realize it’s not a very reliable way to tell top students apart.

My kid isn't shallow, you are an idiot. The fact that the majority of kids from her school who want to attend UCB are Asian is what it is, a simple fact and nothing else. They are also Engineering/CS grinds to help clarify things for you.

Of course she knows who the top students are, every kid does because they take the same classes together. You might not know the quality of somebodies essays but if you think that your kid cannot tell you who the top students are you are delusional. They also get notified if they are ELC so the top 9% is obvious and there is an award for the top 5% so they all know that as well.

My kids didn't want to attend UCB because she fully understands the 'experience' because she has friends there and she wanted a better learning environment since she sees, hears about, and understands some of the challenges that go with attending UCB. She also didn't want to attend because she very smart but not pointy and most of the kids who really want to attend from her school are CS and engineering oriented kids who she doesn't really connect with in her closest friend group. She also had plenty of other choices so why choose something that doesn't fit your needs?

Finally, since you want to imply racism I will point out that she is half-Asian and looks Asian. So please take your implied racist rhetoric and wander off.

Ok, let’s assume that when your said your kid didn’t want to apply to Berkeley “knowing who went from her school” she was referring to not fitting the mold of grindy, pointy, engineering/CS type Asian kids. Of course the stereotyping is not racist because she looks Asian and it’s just a simple fact and nothing else.

Curious where your top 5% student from a top private in the Bay Area ended up and in what major. I bet it’s not HYPSM because you’d have mentioned it multiple times by now.

Why would I have mentioned it? The conversation wasn't about my kid, it's about UCB. But since you ask I'll give you a bit but not too much since I don't want to dox her.

She's a Math major and she didn't go to HYPSM. She, did turn down MIT again because of fit and she ended up at a top SLAC in the end. And, before you go off the handle and say something foolish like 'no way she got into MIT' she was a recruited athlete.

No sure how that added to the UCB conversation but if it makes you feel better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Reposting bc my blurb ended up in the middle of a quote.
This rings true for my son’s top Bay Area private. Most of the wealthy kids go to private universities. We could pay for private no problem. My son didn’t want to go out of state. He didn’t have the chops for my alma mater, Stanford, or for Cal, UCLA, Pomona or CMC. I wasn’t going to pay good money for Pitzer or Occidental. So he ended up Davis. He loves it there! The kids are just as smart as those at Cal but the learning is much more collaborative and there’s no gatekeeping with the clubs. I love that I’m spending less to educate, house and feed him than I did just to educate him at his SF private.

I think that you made ended up in a great spot given the options that you mentioned. Davis is a great school.

UC Davis is a welcoming place for students, integrated into a pleasant college town, with Central Park, a gathering place with many community activities, just to the east of campus. It also has some cool quirky (in a good way) things for students to do, like volunteer as a programmer at KDVS, teach and take classes at the Experimental College and work at the Bike Barn. It is a Top50 school that isn't as socially and academically as stressful as many of the alternatives. Despite having over 30,000 students, it has preserved some of the small college vibe that it had in the 1960s and 1970s.

Are you ok with 30% of kids being Asian though? At least it’s not 40% like Berkeley.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Berkeley definitely has a wow factor but HYP have a bit more wow factor.

“Wow” is not what comes to mind when I hear of a top student attending Berkeley oos.

“How” is the word that comes to mind. “How” could this process have been approached differently to get a better outcome?

lol, are you for real? Poor Berkeley students attending some of best programs in the country when they could have gone straight to UVA.

Mind boggling how complete ignoramuses imagine themselves seers of wisdom!

You are cherry picking rankings to make Berkeley look better than it is.

No question the undergrad experience at UVA is better than Berkeley.

State flagships tend to have an inflated reputation in their home state. Are you living in California? The rest of the country barely thinks about Berkeley at all. You are out of touch with reality.

Just so you know, opinions about Berkeley in California are probably as polarizing, if not more so, than OOS. We are more familiar with many issues related to housing, class availability and toxic competition. It isn’t romanticized. I know 2 kids from my son’s class who got accepted to Berkeley and then got off the waitlist for UCLA and will go there instead. It is a great fit for some but not others.

Polarizing not for Cal's status as public, but because of the reasons you mentioned and the fact that it has been destination for strange people.

Who are those strange people? UC’s still end up having strong undergrad programs. It’s fine if you don’t like the culture or student life and decide something else is better for you.

At our good CA public high school about 30% of all students apply to Berkeley, and 3% get admitted (10-15), the numbers are similar for UCLA. That’s in line with the admission rate of about 10% for both Cal and UCLA. They are top students, the admission is very competitive.

HYPSM admission rate is about 5%, so they are more competitive, although some programs at Berkeley like MET (dual engineering and business degree) have admission rates below 3%. For comparison UVA admission rate is 17%.

The truth is plenty of students want to go to Berkeley in and out of state.

This looks about right for good CA public schools. It also holds for most good privates as well with acceptances in line with the overall average for UCLA and UCB.

In my experience there is a difference between public and private in terms of who attends UCB. At most of the top bay area privates the very top students do not covet (or attend UCB or UCLA). They mostly target top privates as their first choice. My top 5% kid did this as well with no interest in attending UCB based on her experience living in the bay area and knowing who went from her school. The school CCs actually ask the very top kids not to apply to UCLA and UCB unless they are actually interested in attending because the acceptance rates never vary by more than a kid or two. The UCs seem to be much more attractive to top public school kids.

That makes a lot of sense. If you pay $50k a year in tuition at a private high school you’re not going to blink at $60k tuition at Stanford, if you’re competitive enough to be admitted. But all these schools are more or less lottery tickets, and it’s conceivable that most applicants, top 5% included, will not get in HYPSM. The admission strategy may or may not include Berkeley, but a decent number go there. For College Preparatory, an “elite” private high school in the Bay Area, Berkeley is the third most attended university after Chicago and Swarthmore. The attended universities list skews private, but again we’re talking people that are not concerned with cost. Either way Berkeley is there in the mix with Ivies, LACs, etc. I don’t know a single person that would look down at Cal as not worthy enough.

Not sure I understand the comment about knowing who went to Berkeley from her high school. Is it that she doesn’t want to mix with the poor, the nerdy, or the strivers? Seems kind of shallow to me.

I give credit to UC admissions, they do identify the top students, that can be clearly seen in my kids schools SCOIR data. Quite a few kids do go to UCB from her school every year but the very top students for the most part (some exceptions of course) do not consider UCB as a top choice. It's not looking down on UCB, it's the environment (which has been well covered) along with the crazy admissions process for the top UCs. There is also a very clear racial dimension in who chooses UCB among the top students at our school.

I'm not sure why you would insinuate that my child is shallow because she wasn't interested in UCB? Seems pretty shallow to me, especially since you know nothing about her except that she was in the top 5% of her class at a top Bay area private.

I’m saying you and your kid are shallow for discarding Berkeley because of “knowing who went from her school”. Your words, not mine, but please elaborate what you mean by that. Is it the “clear racial dimension in who chooses UCB”? You’re not helping your cause, it’s probably better for everyone she’s not interested in Berkeley.

Your logic is quite faulty, if “quite a few students go to Berkeley every year,” then that’s a good compromise between where they want to go and where they can get in. I doubt you have the insight to tell if they are top students or not, unless you have unrestricted access to their application. More likely you base your evaluation on what your daughter tells you, which I hope you realize it’s not a very reliable way to tell top students apart.

My kid isn't shallow, you are an idiot. The fact that the majority of kids from her school who want to attend UCB are Asian is what it is, a simple fact and nothing else. They are also Engineering/CS grinds to help clarify things for you.

Of course she knows who the top students are, every kid does because they take the same classes together. You might not know the quality of somebodies essays but if you think that your kid cannot tell you who the top students are you are delusional. They also get notified if they are ELC so the top 9% is obvious and there is an award for the top 5% so they all know that as well.

My kids didn't want to attend UCB because she fully understands the 'experience' because she has friends there and she wanted a better learning environment since she sees, hears about, and understands some of the challenges that go with attending UCB. She also didn't want to attend because she very smart but not pointy and most of the kids who really want to attend from her school are CS and engineering oriented kids who she doesn't really connect with in her closest friend group. She also had plenty of other choices so why choose something that doesn't fit your needs?

Finally, since you want to imply racism I will point out that she is half-Asian and looks Asian. So please take your implied racist rhetoric and wander off.

Be honest, your kids are just not competitive.

That's funny, we are talking about my kid, not yours.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Reposting bc my blurb ended up in the middle of a quote.
This rings true for my son’s top Bay Area private. Most of the wealthy kids go to private universities. We could pay for private no problem. My son didn’t want to go out of state. He didn’t have the chops for my alma mater, Stanford, or for Cal, UCLA, Pomona or CMC. I wasn’t going to pay good money for Pitzer or Occidental. So he ended up Davis. He loves it there! The kids are just as smart as those at Cal but the learning is much more collaborative and there’s no gatekeeping with the clubs. I love that I’m spending less to educate, house and feed him than I did just to educate him at his SF private.

I think that you made ended up in a great spot given the options that you mentioned. Davis is a great school.

UC Davis is a welcoming place for students, integrated into a pleasant college town, with Central Park, a gathering place with many community activities, just to the east of campus. It also has some cool quirky (in a good way) things for students to do, like volunteer as a programmer at KDVS, teach and take classes at the Experimental College and work at the Bike Barn. It is a Top50 school that isn't as socially and academically as stressful as many of the alternatives. Despite having over 30,000 students, it has preserved some of the small college vibe that it had in the 1960s and 1970s.

Are you ok with 30% of kids being Asian though? At least it’s not 40% like Berkeley.

Why wouldn't someone be ok with 30% or 40% Asian? It's a CA school, we live in a multicultural world everyday and it's great.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Berkeley definitely has a wow factor but HYP have a bit more wow factor.

“Wow” is not what comes to mind when I hear of a top student attending Berkeley oos.

“How” is the word that comes to mind. “How” could this process have been approached differently to get a better outcome?

lol, are you for real? Poor Berkeley students attending some of best programs in the country when they could have gone straight to UVA.

Mind boggling how complete ignoramuses imagine themselves seers of wisdom!

You are cherry picking rankings to make Berkeley look better than it is.

No question the undergrad experience at UVA is better than Berkeley.

State flagships tend to have an inflated reputation in their home state. Are you living in California? The rest of the country barely thinks about Berkeley at all. You are out of touch with reality.

Just so you know, opinions about Berkeley in California are probably as polarizing, if not more so, than OOS. We are more familiar with many issues related to housing, class availability and toxic competition. It isn’t romanticized. I know 2 kids from my son’s class who got accepted to Berkeley and then got off the waitlist for UCLA and will go there instead. It is a great fit for some but not others.

Polarizing not for Cal's status as public, but because of the reasons you mentioned and the fact that it has been destination for strange people.

Who are those strange people? UC’s still end up having strong undergrad programs. It’s fine if you don’t like the culture or student life and decide something else is better for you.

At our good CA public high school about 30% of all students apply to Berkeley, and 3% get admitted (10-15), the numbers are similar for UCLA. That’s in line with the admission rate of about 10% for both Cal and UCLA. They are top students, the admission is very competitive.

HYPSM admission rate is about 5%, so they are more competitive, although some programs at Berkeley like MET (dual engineering and business degree) have admission rates below 3%. For comparison UVA admission rate is 17%.

The truth is plenty of students want to go to Berkeley in and out of state.

This looks about right for good CA public schools. It also holds for most good privates as well with acceptances in line with the overall average for UCLA and UCB.

In my experience there is a difference between public and private in terms of who attends UCB. At most of the top bay area privates the very top students do not covet (or attend UCB or UCLA). They mostly target top privates as their first choice. My top 5% kid did this as well with no interest in attending UCB based on her experience living in the bay area and knowing who went from her school. The school CCs actually ask the very top kids not to apply to UCLA and UCB unless they are actually interested in attending because the acceptance rates never vary by more than a kid or two. The UCs seem to be much more attractive to top public school kids.

That makes a lot of sense. If you pay $50k a year in tuition at a private high school you’re not going to blink at $60k tuition at Stanford, if you’re competitive enough to be admitted. But all these schools are more or less lottery tickets, and it’s conceivable that most applicants, top 5% included, will not get in HYPSM. The admission strategy may or may not include Berkeley, but a decent number go there. For College Preparatory, an “elite” private high school in the Bay Area, Berkeley is the third most attended university after Chicago and Swarthmore. The attended universities list skews private, but again we’re talking people that are not concerned with cost. Either way Berkeley is there in the mix with Ivies, LACs, etc. I don’t know a single person that would look down at Cal as not worthy enough.

Not sure I understand the comment about knowing who went to Berkeley from her high school. Is it that she doesn’t want to mix with the poor, the nerdy, or the strivers? Seems kind of shallow to me.

I give credit to UC admissions, they do identify the top students, that can be clearly seen in my kids schools SCOIR data. Quite a few kids do go to UCB from her school every year but the very top students for the most part (some exceptions of course) do not consider UCB as a top choice. It's not looking down on UCB, it's the environment (which has been well covered) along with the crazy admissions process for the top UCs. There is also a very clear racial dimension in who chooses UCB among the top students at our school.

I'm not sure why you would insinuate that my child is shallow because she wasn't interested in UCB? Seems pretty shallow to me, especially since you know nothing about her except that she was in the top 5% of her class at a top Bay area private.

I’m saying you and your kid are shallow for discarding Berkeley because of “knowing who went from her school”. Your words, not mine, but please elaborate what you mean by that. Is it the “clear racial dimension in who chooses UCB”? You’re not helping your cause, it’s probably better for everyone she’s not interested in Berkeley.

Your logic is quite faulty, if “quite a few students go to Berkeley every year,” then that’s a good compromise between where they want to go and where they can get in. I doubt you have the insight to tell if they are top students or not, unless you have unrestricted access to their application. More likely you base your evaluation on what your daughter tells you, which I hope you realize it’s not a very reliable way to tell top students apart.

My kid isn't shallow, you are an idiot. The fact that the majority of kids from her school who want to attend UCB are Asian is what it is, a simple fact and nothing else. They are also Engineering/CS grinds to help clarify things for you.

Of course she knows who the top students are, every kid does because they take the same classes together. You might not know the quality of somebodies essays but if you think that your kid cannot tell you who the top students are you are delusional. They also get notified if they are ELC so the top 9% is obvious and there is an award for the top 5% so they all know that as well.

My kids didn't want to attend UCB because she fully understands the 'experience' because she has friends there and she wanted a better learning environment since she sees, hears about, and understands some of the challenges that go with attending UCB. She also didn't want to attend because she very smart but not pointy and most of the kids who really want to attend from her school are CS and engineering oriented kids who she doesn't really connect with in her closest friend group. She also had plenty of other choices so why choose something that doesn't fit your needs?

Finally, since you want to imply racism I will point out that she is half-Asian and looks Asian. So please take your implied racist rhetoric and wander off.

Ok, let’s assume that when your said your kid didn’t want to apply to Berkeley “knowing who went from her school” she was referring to not fitting the mold of grindy, pointy, engineering/CS type Asian kids. Of course the stereotyping is not racist because she looks Asian and it’s just a simple fact and nothing else.

Curious where your top 5% student from a top private in the Bay Area ended up and in what major. I bet it’s not HYPSM because you’d have mentioned it multiple times by now.

Why would I have mentioned it? The conversation wasn't about my kid, it's about UCB. But since you ask I'll give you a bit but not too much since I don't want to dox her.

She's a Math major and she didn't go to HYPSM. She, did turn down MIT again because of fit and she ended up at a top SLAC in the end. And, before you go off the handle and say something foolish like 'no way she got into MIT' she was a recruited athlete.

No sure how that added to the UCB conversation but if it makes you feel better.

You brought your kid into the conversation. Specifically as a top 5% student from a top private that wouldn’t even consider Berkeley.

If you’re going to lie about MIT at least check your facts. From the MIT website:
“Unlike many other schools, MIT does not send “likely letters” or do “signings,” nor do our coaches have discretionary “slots” which they may fill. Prospective athletes to MIT are subject to the same rigorous, academically-focused admissions process as all other applicants.”

Amazingly, your top 5% of a top private student majoring in math didn’t bother to apply to the #3 school in math (Berkeley) and turned down the #1 school (MIT) because of bad fit.

You have zero credibility.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Reposting bc my blurb ended up in the middle of a quote.
This rings true for my son’s top Bay Area private. Most of the wealthy kids go to private universities. We could pay for private no problem. My son didn’t want to go out of state. He didn’t have the chops for my alma mater, Stanford, or for Cal, UCLA, Pomona or CMC. I wasn’t going to pay good money for Pitzer or Occidental. So he ended up Davis. He loves it there! The kids are just as smart as those at Cal but the learning is much more collaborative and there’s no gatekeeping with the clubs. I love that I’m spending less to educate, house and feed him than I did just to educate him at his SF private.

I think that you made ended up in a great spot given the options that you mentioned. Davis is a great school.

UC Davis is a welcoming place for students, integrated into a pleasant college town, with Central Park, a gathering place with many community activities, just to the east of campus. It also has some cool quirky (in a good way) things for students to do, like volunteer as a programmer at KDVS, teach and take classes at the Experimental College and work at the Bike Barn. It is a Top50 school that isn't as socially and academically as stressful as many of the alternatives. Despite having over 30,000 students, it has preserved some of the small college vibe that it had in the 1960s and 1970s.

Are you ok with 30% of kids being Asian though? At least it’s not 40% like Berkeley.

PP: Is this an East Coast phobia? We live in Northern California and my son has attended majority non-white schools all the way along (high school 20% white), and this would be something we would barely notice, much less be a concern. Davis is also nearly 30% Latino as well.