Raising kids in a competitive UMC community? Would you do it all over again?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are plenty of places in the DC area which are middle class and not competitive UMC environments OP.

You can choose to live in a super competitive school district or go to an expensive private school, or you can live in a less expensive area with decent mid tier public schools, even in the DC area. The choice is yours OP.

Not OP, but again, I completely reject this. We moved out to Loudoun County, to a diverse area with middling public schools. Our MS/HS hover around a 4 on Great Schools. While this did maybe result in less academic competition (in numbers of kids, the competitive kids are still competitive), there is still tremendous financial competition. My husband and I call it the "arms race" and its definitely contagious. Some people cannot stand when others have something better than they do and must immediately remedy the situation. Tons of fancy 60-70k SUVs (the latest trend seems to be a fully loaded Tahoe), $100k kitchens, second homes, new cars for teenagers, expensive name brand clothing and shoes (most teens are wearing a sneaker that costs $150+) etc. You would have to be blind or oblivious not to notice. A friend of mine recently told me she no longer wants to host at her home because she is embarrassed that her kitchen is old and not remodeled.

Why not move to DC? I live in NE, and everyone around me has a 10 year old Honda CRV they barely use because we mostly use the bus or metro. My kids wear Amazon basics and I’m sporting the latest from Target. DH and I make a lot, but choose to spend on experiences, and kids are learning well in charter schools.

Life is only competitive if you make it that way.

This is us, too, but there can be stealth competition in this lifestyle. Like this PP might be totally chill. But she could also be weirdly competitive about how her kids immersion or montessori charter is better than wherever your kids go, or how they're more environmentally conscious because they metro everywhere, or brag endlessly about they would NEVER do Disney because it's so corporate but they had an amazing time on their 10 day camping trip in the Alps last summer.

I've met people who seemed down to earth like this but I think this area has so many type A, personally competitive people that even if you get away from the really overt, hyper-materislistic people, you still sometimes encounter one-upsmanship and other competitive behaviors.

And yes, of course there are people like this everywhere. But I've lived a lot of places and there are more people like this here than in places in "fly over country" where people's expectations for themselves and other people tend to be lower.

There’s a difference between being competitive and just being insecure. I find lots of people who choose to raise families in DC public schools to be generally less insecure because they are already making choices that insecure people would never make.

Wow, hard disagree, I see a TON of insecurity in DC public school families, especially the ones who don't have access to "well regarded" inbound schools. Either they go the charter route, where there's lots of insecurity about which charter is best, as well as these arguments (on DCUM yes but people talk about this IRL too) about test scores relative to socioecomic status of families. Or they attend their IB which might be Title 1 or have pretty atrocious test scores, and there's tons of insecurity there that can manifest as "well I'm a better person than you because I invest in my neighborhood school" or this pity party "whyyyyy don't we have any lottery luck and why is our school so weak." The lottery and the unevenness of schools in DC creates winners and losers and that absolutely leads to insecure, competitive behavior in both groups.

I'm sure the rich folks at privates or the really well funded suburban publics are insecure in their own way, but I observe endless insecurity in the DC public school parents I meet (we are a DC public school family).

What is this insecurity that you are referencing?

DH and I are both ivy educated. We have a HHI of $2-3m. Our kids get good grades, play sports, dance, do scouts, have friends from similar backgrounds. My kids are loved and happy.

I am not in competition with other moms or kids. My kids are good at almost everything and have lots of friends.

That's because you are winning

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are plenty of places in the DC area which are middle class and not competitive UMC environments OP.

You can choose to live in a super competitive school district or go to an expensive private school, or you can live in a less expensive area with decent mid tier public schools, even in the DC area. The choice is yours OP.

Not OP, but again, I completely reject this. We moved out to Loudoun County, to a diverse area with middling public schools. Our MS/HS hover around a 4 on Great Schools. While this did maybe result in less academic competition (in numbers of kids, the competitive kids are still competitive), there is still tremendous financial competition. My husband and I call it the "arms race" and its definitely contagious. Some people cannot stand when others have something better than they do and must immediately remedy the situation. Tons of fancy 60-70k SUVs (the latest trend seems to be a fully loaded Tahoe), $100k kitchens, second homes, new cars for teenagers, expensive name brand clothing and shoes (most teens are wearing a sneaker that costs $150+) etc. You would have to be blind or oblivious not to notice. A friend of mine recently told me she no longer wants to host at her home because she is embarrassed that her kitchen is old and not remodeled.

Why not move to DC? I live in NE, and everyone around me has a 10 year old Honda CRV they barely use because we mostly use the bus or metro. My kids wear Amazon basics and I’m sporting the latest from Target. DH and I make a lot, but choose to spend on experiences, and kids are learning well in charter schools.

Life is only competitive if you make it that way.

This is us, too, but there can be stealth competition in this lifestyle. Like this PP might be totally chill. But she could also be weirdly competitive about how her kids immersion or montessori charter is better than wherever your kids go, or how they're more environmentally conscious because they metro everywhere, or brag endlessly about they would NEVER do Disney because it's so corporate but they had an amazing time on their 10 day camping trip in the Alps last summer.

I've met people who seemed down to earth like this but I think this area has so many type A, personally competitive people that even if you get away from the really overt, hyper-materislistic people, you still sometimes encounter one-upsmanship and other competitive behaviors.

And yes, of course there are people like this everywhere. But I've lived a lot of places and there are more people like this here than in places in "fly over country" where people's expectations for themselves and other people tend to be lower.

There’s a difference between being competitive and just being insecure. I find lots of people who choose to raise families in DC public schools to be generally less insecure because they are already making choices that insecure people would never make.

Wow, hard disagree, I see a TON of insecurity in DC public school families, especially the ones who don't have access to "well regarded" inbound schools. Either they go the charter route, where there's lots of insecurity about which charter is best, as well as these arguments (on DCUM yes but people talk about this IRL too) about test scores relative to socioecomic status of families. Or they attend their IB which might be Title 1 or have pretty atrocious test scores, and there's tons of insecurity there that can manifest as "well I'm a better person than you because I invest in my neighborhood school" or this pity party "whyyyyy don't we have any lottery luck and why is our school so weak." The lottery and the unevenness of schools in DC creates winners and losers and that absolutely leads to insecure, competitive behavior in both groups.

I'm sure the rich folks at privates or the really well funded suburban publics are insecure in their own way, but I observe endless insecurity in the DC public school parents I meet (we are a DC public school family).

What is this insecurity that you are referencing?

DH and I are both ivy educated. We have a HHI of $2-3m. Our kids get good grades, play sports, dance, do scouts, have friends from similar backgrounds. My kids are loved and happy.

I am not in competition with other moms or kids. My kids are good at almost everything and have lots of friends.

Yes you keep repeating this over and over

I’m responding to someone’s post on a forum. We know people in different economic ranges even within our affluent community. Some people come from family money. Many are well educated and self made. Lots of international money. I actually find that we are surrounded by confident people, not insecure ones like the pp is suggesting.

I have heard your zip code matters most in determining your adult success. My kids are surrounded by people who are successful. You cannot live in a $3m house by being a slacker.

I actually agree. I don't feel like there is too much competition, because I'm confident in my kids' abilities. Other families around us seem the same. I only see this competitiveness online.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It probably only feels over competitive if your kids cannot keep up.

Nope. My kids were doing well at some of the nation’s top schools, my son played sports at the national level, we had a great country club - and we walked away for a less intense area. Your stereotypes are just that. We just wanted a more balanced, less driven lifestyle, and yes, less competitiveness. It’s not a knock on your choices, just explaining to OP’s mine.

[Anonymous]

Lol, telling people "whatever you're just mad because your kids can't keep up" is really proving the OP's point.

The real issue is that I don't want to raise my kid somewhere that requires her to be "the best" in order to feel good about herself. I of course encourage her to try her best and she has things she's great at (school) and things she struggles with (sports). That's normal and will not inhibit her ability to have a successful, good life.

So we're moving to an area where it's totally okay to be a math whiz with no hand-eye coordination, are a B student who does student government and rec soccer, or a band geek who is saving up babysitting money to buy a keyboard because she wants to start a ruck band. In places that are not ultra-competitive, all of these kids would be described in the community as "great kids." Because they are! Well I have a great kid too, and I'm tired of living somewhere where anyone sees her as lacking because she isn't an elite athlete who speaks three languages, has been to four continents, and gets straight As. She's not lacking, our family isn't lacking, this area is just nuts.

So yeah, I guess we just couldn't hack it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are plenty of places in the DC area which are middle class and not competitive UMC environments OP.

You can choose to live in a super competitive school district or go to an expensive private school, or you can live in a less expensive area with decent mid tier public schools, even in the DC area. The choice is yours OP.

Not OP, but again, I completely reject this. We moved out to Loudoun County, to a diverse area with middling public schools. Our MS/HS hover around a 4 on Great Schools. While this did maybe result in less academic competition (in numbers of kids, the competitive kids are still competitive), there is still tremendous financial competition. My husband and I call it the "arms race" and its definitely contagious. Some people cannot stand when others have something better than they do and must immediately remedy the situation. Tons of fancy 60-70k SUVs (the latest trend seems to be a fully loaded Tahoe), $100k kitchens, second homes, new cars for teenagers, expensive name brand clothing and shoes (most teens are wearing a sneaker that costs $150+) etc. You would have to be blind or oblivious not to notice. A friend of mine recently told me she no longer wants to host at her home because she is embarrassed that her kitchen is old and not remodeled.

Why not move to DC? I live in NE, and everyone around me has a 10 year old Honda CRV they barely use because we mostly use the bus or metro. My kids wear Amazon basics and I’m sporting the latest from Target. DH and I make a lot, but choose to spend on experiences, and kids are learning well in charter schools.

Life is only competitive if you make it that way.

This is us, too, but there can be stealth competition in this lifestyle. Like this PP might be totally chill. But she could also be weirdly competitive about how her kids immersion or montessori charter is better than wherever your kids go, or how they're more environmentally conscious because they metro everywhere, or brag endlessly about they would NEVER do Disney because it's so corporate but they had an amazing time on their 10 day camping trip in the Alps last summer.

I've met people who seemed down to earth like this but I think this area has so many type A, personally competitive people that even if you get away from the really overt, hyper-materislistic people, you still sometimes encounter one-upsmanship and other competitive behaviors.

And yes, of course there are people like this everywhere. But I've lived a lot of places and there are more people like this here than in places in "fly over country" where people's expectations for themselves and other people tend to be lower.

There’s a difference between being competitive and just being insecure. I find lots of people who choose to raise families in DC public schools to be generally less insecure because they are already making choices that insecure people would never make.

Wow, hard disagree, I see a TON of insecurity in DC public school families, especially the ones who don't have access to "well regarded" inbound schools. Either they go the charter route, where there's lots of insecurity about which charter is best, as well as these arguments (on DCUM yes but people talk about this IRL too) about test scores relative to socioecomic status of families. Or they attend their IB which might be Title 1 or have pretty atrocious test scores, and there's tons of insecurity there that can manifest as "well I'm a better person than you because I invest in my neighborhood school" or this pity party "whyyyyy don't we have any lottery luck and why is our school so weak." The lottery and the unevenness of schools in DC creates winners and losers and that absolutely leads to insecure, competitive behavior in both groups.

I'm sure the rich folks at privates or the really well funded suburban publics are insecure in their own way, but I observe endless insecurity in the DC public school parents I meet (we are a DC public school family).

What is this insecurity that you are referencing?

DH and I are both ivy educated. We have a HHI of $2-3m. Our kids get good grades, play sports, dance, do scouts, have friends from similar backgrounds. My kids are loved and happy.

I am not in competition with other moms or kids. My kids are good at almost everything and have lots of friends.

Yeah. I actually think there is something to this --- parents who are extremely confident (resumes with Ivy or MIT/Stanford/military academy degrees, Rhodes scholarships, high IQ, whatever) can take more chances with their kids educations because they trust that their kids will inherit some of that ability from them and will be exceptional. Shocking number of parents at our Title 1 school were former valedictorians. I think it's a form of privilege. The parents who were more concerneced about their kids being average are much more interested in being at a school where the average is higher -- i think that's actually totally rational on their part.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are plenty of places in the DC area which are middle class and not competitive UMC environments OP.

You can choose to live in a super competitive school district or go to an expensive private school, or you can live in a less expensive area with decent mid tier public schools, even in the DC area. The choice is yours OP.

Not OP, but again, I completely reject this. We moved out to Loudoun County, to a diverse area with middling public schools. Our MS/HS hover around a 4 on Great Schools. While this did maybe result in less academic competition (in numbers of kids, the competitive kids are still competitive), there is still tremendous financial competition. My husband and I call it the "arms race" and its definitely contagious. Some people cannot stand when others have something better than they do and must immediately remedy the situation. Tons of fancy 60-70k SUVs (the latest trend seems to be a fully loaded Tahoe), $100k kitchens, second homes, new cars for teenagers, expensive name brand clothing and shoes (most teens are wearing a sneaker that costs $150+) etc. You would have to be blind or oblivious not to notice. A friend of mine recently told me she no longer wants to host at her home because she is embarrassed that her kitchen is old and not remodeled.

Why not move to DC? I live in NE, and everyone around me has a 10 year old Honda CRV they barely use because we mostly use the bus or metro. My kids wear Amazon basics and I’m sporting the latest from Target. DH and I make a lot, but choose to spend on experiences, and kids are learning well in charter schools.

Life is only competitive if you make it that way.

This is us, too, but there can be stealth competition in this lifestyle. Like this PP might be totally chill. But she could also be weirdly competitive about how her kids immersion or montessori charter is better than wherever your kids go, or how they're more environmentally conscious because they metro everywhere, or brag endlessly about they would NEVER do Disney because it's so corporate but they had an amazing time on their 10 day camping trip in the Alps last summer.

I've met people who seemed down to earth like this but I think this area has so many type A, personally competitive people that even if you get away from the really overt, hyper-materislistic people, you still sometimes encounter one-upsmanship and other competitive behaviors.

And yes, of course there are people like this everywhere. But I've lived a lot of places and there are more people like this here than in places in "fly over country" where people's expectations for themselves and other people tend to be lower.

There’s a difference between being competitive and just being insecure. I find lots of people who choose to raise families in DC public schools to be generally less insecure because they are already making choices that insecure people would never make.

Wow, hard disagree, I see a TON of insecurity in DC public school families, especially the ones who don't have access to "well regarded" inbound schools. Either they go the charter route, where there's lots of insecurity about which charter is best, as well as these arguments (on DCUM yes but people talk about this IRL too) about test scores relative to socioecomic status of families. Or they attend their IB which might be Title 1 or have pretty atrocious test scores, and there's tons of insecurity there that can manifest as "well I'm a better person than you because I invest in my neighborhood school" or this pity party "whyyyyy don't we have any lottery luck and why is our school so weak." The lottery and the unevenness of schools in DC creates winners and losers and that absolutely leads to insecure, competitive behavior in both groups.

I'm sure the rich folks at privates or the really well funded suburban publics are insecure in their own way, but I observe endless insecurity in the DC public school parents I meet (we are a DC public school family).

What is this insecurity that you are referencing?

DH and I are both ivy educated. We have a HHI of $2-3m. Our kids get good grades, play sports, dance, do scouts, have friends from similar backgrounds. My kids are loved and happy.

I am not in competition with other moms or kids. My kids are good at almost everything and have lots of friends.

Yes you keep repeating this over and over

I’m responding to someone’s post on a forum. We know people in different economic ranges even within our affluent community. Some people come from family money. Many are well educated and self made. Lots of international money. I actually find that we are surrounded by confident people, not insecure ones like the pp is suggesting.

I have heard your zip code matters most in determining your adult success. My kids are surrounded by people who are successful. You cannot live in a $3m house by being a slacker.

LOL, what? Who are you hanging around that would tell you this nonsense??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are plenty of places in the DC area which are middle class and not competitive UMC environments OP.

You can choose to live in a super competitive school district or go to an expensive private school, or you can live in a less expensive area with decent mid tier public schools, even in the DC area. The choice is yours OP.

Not OP, but again, I completely reject this. We moved out to Loudoun County, to a diverse area with middling public schools. Our MS/HS hover around a 4 on Great Schools. While this did maybe result in less academic competition (in numbers of kids, the competitive kids are still competitive), there is still tremendous financial competition. My husband and I call it the "arms race" and its definitely contagious. Some people cannot stand when others have something better than they do and must immediately remedy the situation. Tons of fancy 60-70k SUVs (the latest trend seems to be a fully loaded Tahoe), $100k kitchens, second homes, new cars for teenagers, expensive name brand clothing and shoes (most teens are wearing a sneaker that costs $150+) etc. You would have to be blind or oblivious not to notice. A friend of mine recently told me she no longer wants to host at her home because she is embarrassed that her kitchen is old and not remodeled.

Why not move to DC? I live in NE, and everyone around me has a 10 year old Honda CRV they barely use because we mostly use the bus or metro. My kids wear Amazon basics and I’m sporting the latest from Target. DH and I make a lot, but choose to spend on experiences, and kids are learning well in charter schools.

Life is only competitive if you make it that way.

This is us, too, but there can be stealth competition in this lifestyle. Like this PP might be totally chill. But she could also be weirdly competitive about how her kids immersion or montessori charter is better than wherever your kids go, or how they're more environmentally conscious because they metro everywhere, or brag endlessly about they would NEVER do Disney because it's so corporate but they had an amazing time on their 10 day camping trip in the Alps last summer.

I've met people who seemed down to earth like this but I think this area has so many type A, personally competitive people that even if you get away from the really overt, hyper-materislistic people, you still sometimes encounter one-upsmanship and other competitive behaviors.

And yes, of course there are people like this everywhere. But I've lived a lot of places and there are more people like this here than in places in "fly over country" where people's expectations for themselves and other people tend to be lower.

There’s a difference between being competitive and just being insecure. I find lots of people who choose to raise families in DC public schools to be generally less insecure because they are already making choices that insecure people would never make.

Wow, hard disagree, I see a TON of insecurity in DC public school families, especially the ones who don't have access to "well regarded" inbound schools. Either they go the charter route, where there's lots of insecurity about which charter is best, as well as these arguments (on DCUM yes but people talk about this IRL too) about test scores relative to socioecomic status of families. Or they attend their IB which might be Title 1 or have pretty atrocious test scores, and there's tons of insecurity there that can manifest as "well I'm a better person than you because I invest in my neighborhood school" or this pity party "whyyyyy don't we have any lottery luck and why is our school so weak." The lottery and the unevenness of schools in DC creates winners and losers and that absolutely leads to insecure, competitive behavior in both groups.

I'm sure the rich folks at privates or the really well funded suburban publics are insecure in their own way, but I observe endless insecurity in the DC public school parents I meet (we are a DC public school family).

What is this insecurity that you are referencing?

DH and I are both ivy educated. We have a HHI of $2-3m. Our kids get good grades, play sports, dance, do scouts, have friends from similar backgrounds. My kids are loved and happy.

I am not in competition with other moms or kids. My kids are good at almost everything and have lots of friends.

Yeah. I actually think there is something to this --- parents who are extremely confident (resumes with Ivy or MIT/Stanford/military academy degrees, Rhodes scholarships, high IQ, whatever) can take more chances with their kids educations because they trust that their kids will inherit some of that ability from them and will be exceptional. Shocking number of parents at our Title 1 school were former valedictorians. I think it's a form of privilege. The parents who were more concerneced about their kids being average are much more interested in being at a school where the average is higher -- i think that's actually totally rational on their part.

It's also that parents who have that background know what it takes to get that background, whether or not you define it as "success."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Lol, telling people "whatever you're just mad because your kids can't keep up" is really proving the OP's point.

The real issue is that I don't want to raise my kid somewhere that requires her to be "the best" in order to feel good about herself. I of course encourage her to try her best and she has things she's great at (school) and things she struggles with (sports). That's normal and will not inhibit her ability to have a successful, good life.

So we're moving to an area where it's totally okay to be a math whiz with no hand-eye coordination, are a B student who does student government and rec soccer, or a band geek who is saving up babysitting money to buy a keyboard because she wants to start a ruck band. In places that are not ultra-competitive, all of these kids would be described in the community as "great kids." Because they are! Well I have a great kid too, and I'm tired of living somewhere where anyone sees her as lacking because she isn't an elite athlete who speaks three languages, has been to four continents, and gets straight As. She's not lacking, our family isn't lacking, this area is just nuts.

So yeah, I guess we just couldn't hack it.

So if you’re an unathletic dork you can’t live in dc?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Lol, telling people "whatever you're just mad because your kids can't keep up" is really proving the OP's point.

The real issue is that I don't want to raise my kid somewhere that requires her to be "the best" in order to feel good about herself. I of course encourage her to try her best and she has things she's great at (school) and things she struggles with (sports). That's normal and will not inhibit her ability to have a successful, good life.

So we're moving to an area where it's totally okay to be a math whiz with no hand-eye coordination, are a B student who does student government and rec soccer, or a band geek who is saving up babysitting money to buy a keyboard because she wants to start a ruck band. In places that are not ultra-competitive, all of these kids would be described in the community as "great kids." Because they are! Well I have a great kid too, and I'm tired of living somewhere where anyone sees her as lacking because she isn't an elite athlete who speaks three languages, has been to four continents, and gets straight As. She's not lacking, our family isn't lacking, this area is just nuts.

So yeah, I guess we just couldn't hack it.

Whether a person feels good about themselves is something internal, not something external. What happens when she eventually encounters people who speaks 3 languages, etc.? Will she feel bad about herself and make sure she also moves to an area where she never sees these people? Or will she feel confident that she's great even if she doesn't have those skills?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Lol, telling people "whatever you're just mad because your kids can't keep up" is really proving the OP's point.

The real issue is that I don't want to raise my kid somewhere that requires her to be "the best" in order to feel good about herself. I of course encourage her to try her best and she has things she's great at (school) and things she struggles with (sports). That's normal and will not inhibit her ability to have a successful, good life.

So we're moving to an area where it's totally okay to be a math whiz with no hand-eye coordination, are a B student who does student government and rec soccer, or a band geek who is saving up babysitting money to buy a keyboard because she wants to start a ruck band. In places that are not ultra-competitive, all of these kids would be described in the community as "great kids." Because they are! Well I have a great kid too, and I'm tired of living somewhere where anyone sees her as lacking because she isn't an elite athlete who speaks three languages, has been to four continents, and gets straight As. She's not lacking, our family isn't lacking, this area is just nuts.

So yeah, I guess we just couldn't hack it.

Yes, your kids sound like they couldn’t compete. You did what you felt was best for your family.

My kids are not the best at anything. They are bad musicians but enjoy playing their instruments. I have one kid who is borderline elite at a sport but unlikely D1 recruit material. He enjoys playing his sport and he is better than 99% of the kids in the DMV. My daughter loves to dance. I don’t have any expectations on this.

I moved around a lot as a kid. I was not an athlete. The rural areas seemed more obsessed with sports. I went to a Midwest high school for a year where farmers came as well as professor’s kids. Football and basketball was everything at that school. It was much more the good looking athletes were at the top like in the 90s movies. An urban or suburban setting often would be more accepting of different kinds of people, especially racial, religious and sexual differences. The dorky unathletic girl may be more uncool and unaccepted at some rural area.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's fine. "Middle class striver" values are hard work, the importance of education and knowledge, and earning a good living. Those are the types of values I want to inculcate in my children.

Interesting. I really dislike/reject the pervasive idea that if my teen isn't decked out head to toe in Lululemon with regular hair highlights and a $50/week Starbucks habit that there is some wrong/lacking in our family. IYKYK.

Yes, I despise this culture and it seems to be ubiquitous in all the DMV affluent areas. So shallow and boring, producing so many vapid and uber-spoiled kids.

Yes. We moved from DC a few yrs ago to a mid sized middle class town. My teen has zero interest in lululemon, Starbucks, Stanley cups and high end skincare and makeup. It just isn’t on her radar at all, or that of her friends’ and schoolmates from what I gather.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are plenty of places in the DC area which are middle class and not competitive UMC environments OP.

You can choose to live in a super competitive school district or go to an expensive private school, or you can live in a less expensive area with decent mid tier public schools, even in the DC area. The choice is yours OP.

Not OP, but again, I completely reject this. We moved out to Loudoun County, to a diverse area with middling public schools. Our MS/HS hover around a 4 on Great Schools. While this did maybe result in less academic competition (in numbers of kids, the competitive kids are still competitive), there is still tremendous financial competition. My husband and I call it the "arms race" and its definitely contagious. Some people cannot stand when others have something better than they do and must immediately remedy the situation. Tons of fancy 60-70k SUVs (the latest trend seems to be a fully loaded Tahoe), $100k kitchens, second homes, new cars for teenagers, expensive name brand clothing and shoes (most teens are wearing a sneaker that costs $150+) etc. You would have to be blind or oblivious not to notice. A friend of mine recently told me she no longer wants to host at her home because she is embarrassed that her kitchen is old and not remodeled.

I'm pretty sure Loudon county is the richest county in Virginia, or actually the entire country. So not only do you live in the middle of nowhere, but you have crappy schools and you didn't remotely escape that striver mindset.

I’m not going to bother explaining statistics to you, but highest median household income does not equal net worth or even mean/average household income. Most of the families doing all this striving are barely breaking $300k. They are just terrible with money and value superficial things.

Ok? What's your point? I understand statistics, thanks. The point is that the person saying they moved to Loudon County and are then shocked that they're surrounded by strivers missed the memo that that's exactly the kind of person who lives in Loudon County.

I’m that poster and Loudoun County is not a monolith. My kids high school has 40% of students on free and reduced lunch. Saying the medical HHI in Loudoun is over $100k doesn’t mean every (or even most) families in Loudoun are UMC.

[Anonymous]

Over thanksgiving I went to this tour of all the artists studios on virginias eastern shore. I met all these really talented people
Who have left highly competitive environments- award winning painters and potters etc- and are redefining life in their own terms. Most of them have grown children but if the schools were better on the eastern shore, one could see dropping out and living a simple affordable life surrounded by nature and beauty

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's fine. "Middle class striver" values are hard work, the importance of education and knowledge, and earning a good living. Those are the types of values I want to inculcate in my children.

Interesting. I really dislike/reject the pervasive idea that if my teen isn't decked out head to toe in Lululemon with regular hair highlights and a $50/week Starbucks habit that there is some wrong/lacking in our family. IYKYK.

Yes, I despise this culture and it seems to be ubiquitous in all the DMV affluent areas. So shallow and boring, producing so many vapid and uber-spoiled kids.

Yes. We moved from DC a few yrs ago to a mid sized middle class town. My teen has zero interest in lululemon, Starbucks, Stanley cups and high end skincare and makeup. It just isn’t on her radar at all, or that of her friends’ and schoolmates from what I gather.

leaving DC and going to a mid-sized middle class town is my dream. my husband's job is tied to DC but I bring it up every so often (I can work from anywhere and would probably be more successful in a smaller town).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's fine. "Middle class striver" values are hard work, the importance of education and knowledge, and earning a good living. Those are the types of values I want to inculcate in my children.

Interesting. I really dislike/reject the pervasive idea that if my teen isn't decked out head to toe in Lululemon with regular hair highlights and a $50/week Starbucks habit that there is some wrong/lacking in our family. IYKYK.

Yes, I despise this culture and it seems to be ubiquitous in all the DMV affluent areas. So shallow and boring, producing so many vapid and uber-spoiled kids.

Yes. We moved from DC a few yrs ago to a mid sized middle class town. My teen has zero interest in lululemon, Starbucks, Stanley cups and high end skincare and makeup. It just isn’t on her radar at all, or that of her friends’ and schoolmates from what I gather.

I always hear about Lululemon online. Lululemon is really not all that expensive. I have boys though who don’t care about brands.

I grew up in an affluent neighborhood. I was very confident and always got a lot of attention from the guys. A cute dress doesn’t have to be brand name. Your makeup also doesn’t have to be expensive.

Even as a middle aged woman, I see woman who spend a lot of money on makeup and that doesn’t mean she is prettier.

Teach your girls to be confident.

My friend was looking for gifts for her teen nieces and nephews. I said I read online about Stanley cups and Lululemon. She just bought it and didn’t consider it an expensive gift. Same with uggs or crocs. I hardly think these items are expensive.