The Best Remedy for Maryland K-12 Schooling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Actually within education circles and more importantly higher education circles, MCPS is being studied as an example of a failed system.

Your post is an example of how one shouldn't use passive voice. MCPS is being studied as an example of a failed system by whom? I.e., who is studying MCPS as an example of a failed system?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I’m from a state with town based school systems and that’s really not how it works...many school systems draw from an incorporated town and then a few unincorporated areas that surround it.

Kind of like MCPS, huh?

Maryland really doesn't have town-based anything. It's just not how the state government is set up. The basic unit of local government is the county.

DP

No, not kind of like MCPS. MCPS draws from the entire County.

MCPS is just ridiculously large. And the system is not working because it is too large.

But MCPS also draws from several incorporated municipalities and the unincorporated areas that surround them...?

Yes but the boundaries have nothing to do with municipalities...the boundaries are the COUNTY.

Whereas the boundaries of those other districts that include incorporated muncipalities and the unincorporated areas that surround them, but aren't the county, are related to the municipalities' boundaries by...well, how?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I think if MCPS tries to adopt a consortium based system throughout the county with people being assigned to any of 4-5 schools within a boundary area which is redefined to create defacto racial and SES modeling then I think an organized effort to change the state laws and break it apart will occur.

Someone from MCPS floats the idea of moving away from home school boundaries toward consortiums every few weeks. Its an idea that has been floating around MCPS and the BOE in the context of engaging a consultant to study "new ideas" for the boundaries. MCPS is investing in expansions in schools like Seneca Valley and Kennedy despite these school being projected to be under capacity or no growth. MCPS is interesting in racial and SES modeling beyond anything else. I guarantee you that getting rid of home schools and moving to larger consortiums will be one of the recommendations from the consultants.

Everyone is going to be angry when they take away home schools but they already laid the foundation in the Metis report. The Metis report already showed (at the request of MCPS) that the DCC is not working because the schools are self segregating with the choice options. The only way for MCPS to rebalance this is to do away with home schools and use geographic location as proxy for race to make school assignments.

Just watch.

It would be so cool if they did this!

Let me guess you're from VA? Yes this will make VA even more attractive.

It will be so cool to see the system drop even lower. Watch out Detroit and Baltimore , MCPS is racing down to beat you to the bottom!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Let me guess you're from VA? Yes this will make VA even more attractive.

It will be so cool to see the system drop even lower. Watch out Detroit and Baltimore , MCPS is racing down to beat you to the bottom!

Detroit Public Schools Community District
Baltimore City Public Schools
Montgomery County Public Schools

One of these things is not like the other. At least on this planet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I think if MCPS tries to adopt a consortium based system throughout the county with people being assigned to any of 4-5 schools within a boundary area which is redefined to create defacto racial and SES modeling then I think an organized effort to change the state laws and break it apart will occur.

Someone from MCPS floats the idea of moving away from home school boundaries toward consortiums every few weeks. Its an idea that has been floating around MCPS and the BOE in the context of engaging a consultant to study "new ideas" for the boundaries. MCPS is investing in expansions in schools like Seneca Valley and Kennedy despite these school being projected to be under capacity or no growth. MCPS is interesting in racial and SES modeling beyond anything else. I guarantee you that getting rid of home schools and moving to larger consortiums will be one of the recommendations from the consultants.

Everyone is going to be angry when they take away home schools but they already laid the foundation in the Metis report. The Metis report already showed (at the request of MCPS) that the DCC is not working because the schools are self segregating with the choice options. The only way for MCPS to rebalance this is to do away with home schools and use geographic location as proxy for race to make school assignments.

Just watch.

It would be so cool if they did this!

Let me guess you're from VA? Yes this will make VA even more attractive.

It will be so cool to see the system drop even lower. Watch out Detroit and Baltimore , MCPS is racing down to beat you to the bottom!

What would be even cooler if all the non-stop sky is falling MCPS whiners moved to VA!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Actually within education circles and more importantly higher education circles, MCPS is being studied as an example of a failed system.

Not being snarky... cite your source? I'm genuinely curious.

By DCUM armchair experts, of course.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We also came from a state that didn't have a county only school system. The several school districts were independent of the county, townships, and city. If you lived within the zone for that school district your portion of local taxes for the schools went to that district not the city, town or county you lived in. I can't remember whether we wrote the tax check to the school district or simply the city or state and they paid the local school district. Regardless, you do not need a separate municipal government entity to have an independent school district.

Using this system, you could easily have a Silver Spring Unified School System or Silver Spring Independent School System. The community would define the zones -in other states this requires petitioning. The portion of school funding collected by the local government from those residents goes to the new school district.

Pros

1. You get smaller school districts but not so tiny that they struggle to survive. You get VERY representative leadership not only at the school board level but at the principal level. Principals and teachers have a lot more authority and autonomy. There's no vetting through eight layers in the central office to send an email. Resources are put into the schools not the bureaucracy.

2. You get more business/community involvement. Local businesses, bigger firms and other opportunities are more easily pursued. There is no "gee interesting donation or grant opportunity but how will Pat O-Neil benefit? Oh she won't well never mind."

3. You get stable boundaries. Once the school system is established the boundaries are determined by residency and tied to local taxes. Its difficult and not in the interest of anyone to suddenly shift the boundaries despite residents desires. This promotes property values.

4. The community can vote in special tax assessments to fund new things. The money is ear marked not thrown into a big pot to be used on something else. Again -more representative government.

5. You get a much more rationale school system. There isn't a PR department needed to spin the latest boondoggle. There aren't endless millions spent on consultants for navel gazing. Money can be spent on outsourcing services like IT to get IT that works instead of paying millions for in-house work that is always broken.

6. Teacher professional development is much stronger too. There isn't this insular training program that only exposes teachers to central office vetted, changed and messed up materials. Teachers are encouraged to look to broader more established university-level peer reviewed materials and professional development is driven by the teachers.

Agree with all of this. And ultimately, the students and families benefit. Why would you not want to implement changes that help students?

[Anonymous]

+1000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Actually within education circles and more importantly higher education circles, MCPS is being studied as an example of a failed system.

Not being snarky... cite your source? I'm genuinely curious.

John Hopkins for sure. At least a few case studies came out during the audit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just because MD doesn't structure it this way now, it doesn't mean that MD couldn't change this. The MD state legislature could change it. Voters if they choose to organize could change this.

Some of the pro-MCPS posters (who are probably from MCPS but not teachers) seem to feel that MCPS is an entity above any accountability and that tax payers, students, teachers and parents belong to them to be used as they see fit.

MCPS is a perfect example of a failed system and could be the impetus to change the MD rules on public school provision.

Just because pigs don't fly now, it doesn't mean that they couldn't change this. Birds have wings. Pigs could too, if they chose to.

(And if you think that MCPS is a perfect example of a failed system, consider looking around a bit.)

Are your arms long enough to pat yourself on your back for the demonstration of blinding flash of your smartness (er.. lack there of) with your comment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Actually within education circles and more importantly higher education circles, MCPS is being studied as an example of a failed system.

Not being snarky... cite your source? I'm genuinely curious.

John Hopkins for sure. At least a few case studies came out during the audit.

Perfect example of how clueless some of the posters are.
Cite where John Hopkins said it's a failed system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We also came from a state that didn't have a county only school system. The several school districts were independent of the county, townships, and city. If you lived within the zone for that school district your portion of local taxes for the schools went to that district not the city, town or county you lived in. I can't remember whether we wrote the tax check to the school district or simply the city or state and they paid the local school district. Regardless, you do not need a separate municipal government entity to have an independent school district.

Using this system, you could easily have a Silver Spring Unified School System or Silver Spring Independent School System. The community would define the zones -in other states this requires petitioning. The portion of school funding collected by the local government from those residents goes to the new school district.

Pros

1. You get smaller school districts but not so tiny that they struggle to survive. You get VERY representative leadership not only at the school board level but at the principal level. Principals and teachers have a lot more authority and autonomy. There's no vetting through eight layers in the central office to send an email. Resources are put into the schools not the bureaucracy.

2. You get more business/community involvement. Local businesses, bigger firms and other opportunities are more easily pursued. There is no "gee interesting donation or grant opportunity but how will Pat O-Neil benefit? Oh she won't well never mind."

3. You get stable boundaries. Once the school system is established the boundaries are determined by residency and tied to local taxes. Its difficult and not in the interest of anyone to suddenly shift the boundaries despite residents desires. This promotes property values.

4. The community can vote in special tax assessments to fund new things. The money is ear marked not thrown into a big pot to be used on something else. Again -more representative government.

5. You get a much more rationale school system. There isn't a PR department needed to spin the latest boondoggle. There aren't endless millions spent on consultants for navel gazing. Money can be spent on outsourcing services like IT to get IT that works instead of paying millions for in-house work that is always broken.

6. Teacher professional development is much stronger too. There isn't this insular training program that only exposes teachers to central office vetted, changed and messed up materials. Teachers are encouraged to look to broader more established university-level peer reviewed materials and professional development is driven by the teachers.

Wow, that's a lot of assumptions. The mind boggles.


There is no way you could possibly guarantee that a smaller school system will be "more rational," or make better decisions about IT or curriculum or teacher training.

Asshattery is just as prevalent in small groups as in large. Small towns get just as entrenched in corruption and greed as large ones do—and the same goes for school systems. The only difference is in scale. I'm sure we can come up with plenty of examples of smaller systems that get dominated by a single person or faction, and it becomes impossible to get them out because it's too risky to go up against them. Small-town politics can be quite nasty, and I'm willing to bet that smaller school systems are no different.

Sure, if people don't like what the administration are doing, they can vote them out. But we can't manage to do this in MCPS, so why are voters in a smaller district any more likely to do it? I agree that larger systems get bloated with bureaucracy, but I think it's a HUGE leap to assume that everything will be roses and sunshine just because there are fewer people in the central office and fewer voters to select the leadership.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Actually within education circles and more importantly higher education circles, MCPS is being studied as an example of a failed system.

Not being snarky... cite your source? I'm genuinely curious.

John Hopkins for sure. At least a few case studies came out during the audit.

Are these case studies actually calling it a "failed system"? Or are they analyzing a particular policy or curriculum that didn't meet expectations? There's a big difference between a crappy curriculum selection and a failed system, and without knowing the focus of those studies and the conclusions the reached, it's tough to evaluate your statements.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I think if MCPS tries to adopt a consortium based system throughout the county with people being assigned to any of 4-5 schools within a boundary area which is redefined to create defacto racial and SES modeling then I think an organized effort to change the state laws and break it apart will occur.

Someone from MCPS floats the idea of moving away from home school boundaries toward consortiums every few weeks. Its an idea that has been floating around MCPS and the BOE in the context of engaging a consultant to study "new ideas" for the boundaries. MCPS is investing in expansions in schools like Seneca Valley and Kennedy despite these school being projected to be under capacity or no growth. MCPS is interesting in racial and SES modeling beyond anything else. I guarantee you that getting rid of home schools and moving to larger consortiums will be one of the recommendations from the consultants.

Everyone is going to be angry when they take away home schools but they already laid the foundation in the Metis report. The Metis report already showed (at the request of MCPS) that the DCC is not working because the schools are self segregating with the choice options. The only way for MCPS to rebalance this is to do away with home schools and use geographic location as proxy for race to make school assignments.

Just watch.

It would be so cool if they did this!

Let me guess you're from VA? Yes this will make VA even more attractive.

It will be so cool to see the system drop even lower. Watch out Detroit and Baltimore , MCPS is racing down to beat you to the bottom!

What would be even cooler if all the non-stop sky is falling MCPS whiners moved to VA!

Or even if they just found a different hobby.

[Anonymous]

John Hopkins for sure. At least a few case studies came out during the audit.

Are these case studies actually calling it a "failed system"? Or are they analyzing a particular policy or curriculum that didn't meet expectations? There's a big difference between a crappy curriculum selection and a failed system, and without knowing the focus of those studies and the conclusions the reached, it's tough to evaluate your statements.

The JHU report provides the data and evidence for other educational researchers to build case studies and papers. Other institutions and researchers build off these audits and this is a biggie. Many of the case studies and papers won't be covered in the media or show up on Amazon but you can bet they are being covered in classes and serving as a top topic for grad students.

The curriculum failure report brought up several interesting angles such as the near universal dislike from teachers -something the auditors stated they had never seen before in other schools. This is an ideal topic for masters and phd students to delve into the failures at the system and institutional level to allow a failed curriculum to exist for seven years despite universal teacher condemnation. Failures to establish effective peer reviews, qualitative assessments of learning outcomes, qualitative review of materials etc.

The other angle that I would pursue if I was a ed researcher, masters student etc would be the aspect of how the failed curriculum disproportionately hurt low performing students when they were the original target to be helped by the new curriculum. Again this is more than MCPS created a bad curriculum . The case study is about how MCPS made strategic errors in understanding the learning needs of the group it was trying to help and failed to exercise any measurements or feedback to find out and correct course.