Three VA children killed in car accident on Indian Head Highway

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As parents how do you move on from such a tragedy? My heart breaks for them.

I know. It sounds like they had done everything right. Their children were safely and appropriately secured in car seats. They were waiting patiently at a light...they, the parents, survived but their children didn't. It is horrible. The news accounts I read said that there was nothing the parents could have done differently except not be in that place at that time.

I wonder where the driver had been where he got so drunk. Was he at a bar? At a party? He certainly is responsible and deserves to be held completely accountable but I wonder if there were others who could have or should have stepped up to keep him from driving or should have called 911 to report that he was getting in his truck drunk.

He was at the Redskins game.

Where did you see that? If true, and he was served at the game, the family should sue the vendors.

Why does DCUM think this is the fault of EVERYONE but the drunk driver?

First it was possibly the parents fault for possibly not having their kids buckled correctly?
Then in was the auto makers fault for making trucks too big and heavy (But-but-but, PHYSICS!!!)
Now it's the beverage vendors fault for selling him their wares?

NO!!! It's the damn drivers fault for putting the keys in the ignition and getting on the roads after drinking! NO ONE ELSE'S FAULT!!!!

This. No one was pouring drinks down his throat.

The sole person responsible is the person who chose to get drunk, and chose to drive after getting drunk. It's not hard to make different choices that don't put other people at risk, yet this selfish ahole couldn't be bothered to choose to think about anyone but himself.

They’re all getting sued.

When Noah Leota, the MoCo rookie cop, was run over and killed a few years back they (somehow) had the whole bar that served the driver shut down. Which is good!!
The Deadskins need to stop servince people pretty early. And if people can’t control themselves while tailgating them no more alcohol in the damned parking lot.

We were at the Redskins game. It ended around 7:15 and we were home before 8:00. They stop serving after the 3rd quarter, which was maybe 6:45? Th crash happened 3 hours later. So no, it was not the fault of the FedEx field vendors this guy was drunk. Obviously he was drinking long after the game ended.

How do you keep people from getting inebriated in the damned parking lot and then driving home?
Serious question.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As parents how do you move on from such a tragedy? My heart breaks for them.

I know. It sounds like they had done everything right. Their children were safely and appropriately secured in car seats. They were waiting patiently at a light...they, the parents, survived but their children didn't. It is horrible. The news accounts I read said that there was nothing the parents could have done differently except not be in that place at that time.

I wonder where the driver had been where he got so drunk. Was he at a bar? At a party? He certainly is responsible and deserves to be held completely accountable but I wonder if there were others who could have or should have stepped up to keep him from driving or should have called 911 to report that he was getting in his truck drunk.

He was at the Redskins game.

Where did you see that? If true, and he was served at the game, the family should sue the vendors.

Why does DCUM think this is the fault of EVERYONE but the drunk driver?

First it was possibly the parents fault for possibly not having their kids buckled correctly?
Then in was the auto makers fault for making trucks too big and heavy (But-but-but, PHYSICS!!!)
Now it's the beverage vendors fault for selling him their wares?

NO!!! It's the damn drivers fault for putting the keys in the ignition and getting on the roads after drinking! NO ONE ELSE'S FAULT!!!!

This. No one was pouring drinks down his throat.

The sole person responsible is the person who chose to get drunk, and chose to drive after getting drunk. It's not hard to make different choices that don't put other people at risk, yet this selfish ahole couldn't be bothered to choose to think about anyone but himself.

They’re all getting sued.

When Noah Leota, the MoCo rookie cop, was run over and killed a few years back they (somehow) had the whole bar that served the driver shut down. Which is good!!
The Deadskins need to stop servince people pretty early. And if people can’t control themselves while tailgating them no more alcohol in the damned parking lot.

We were at the Redskins game. It ended around 7:15 and we were home before 8:00. They stop serving after the 3rd quarter, which was maybe 6:45? Th crash happened 3 hours later. So no, it was not the fault of the FedEx field vendors this guy was drunk. Obviously he was drinking long after the game ended.

How do you keep people from getting inebriated in the damned parking lot and then driving home?
Serious question.

Drunks will find a way to get drunk. It doesn't even matter if you close down the stadium parking lots, they'll drink in their cars or the parking lot of a liquor store or gas station.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As parents how do you move on from such a tragedy? My heart breaks for them.

I know. It sounds like they had done everything right. Their children were safely and appropriately secured in car seats. They were waiting patiently at a light...they, the parents, survived but their children didn't. It is horrible. The news accounts I read said that there was nothing the parents could have done differently except not be in that place at that time.

I wonder where the driver had been where he got so drunk. Was he at a bar? At a party? He certainly is responsible and deserves to be held completely accountable but I wonder if there were others who could have or should have stepped up to keep him from driving or should have called 911 to report that he was getting in his truck drunk.

He was at the Redskins game.

Where did you see that? If true, and he was served at the game, the family should sue the vendors.

Why does DCUM think this is the fault of EVERYONE but the drunk driver?

First it was possibly the parents fault for possibly not having their kids buckled correctly?
Then in was the auto makers fault for making trucks too big and heavy (But-but-but, PHYSICS!!!)
Now it's the beverage vendors fault for selling him their wares?

NO!!! It's the damn drivers fault for putting the keys in the ignition and getting on the roads after drinking! NO ONE ELSE'S FAULT!!!!

This. No one was pouring drinks down his throat.

The sole person responsible is the person who chose to get drunk, and chose to drive after getting drunk. It's not hard to make different choices that don't put other people at risk, yet this selfish ahole couldn't be bothered to choose to think about anyone but himself.

They’re all getting sued.

When Noah Leota, the MoCo rookie cop, was run over and killed a few years back they (somehow) had the whole bar that served the driver shut down. Which is good!!
The Deadskins need to stop servince people pretty early. And if people can’t control themselves while tailgating them no more alcohol in the damned parking lot.

We were at the Redskins game. It ended around 7:15 and we were home before 8:00. They stop serving after the 3rd quarter, which was maybe 6:45? Th crash happened 3 hours later. So no, it was not the fault of the FedEx field vendors this guy was drunk. Obviously he was drinking long after the game ended.

How do you keep people from getting inebriated in the damned parking lot and then driving home?
Serious question.

Drunks will find a way to get drunk. It doesn't even matter if you close down the stadium parking lots, they'll drink in their cars or the parking lot of a liquor store or gas station.

Better to have major stadiums near metro stations. Might help some.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As parents how do you move on from such a tragedy? My heart breaks for them.

I know. It sounds like they had done everything right. Their children were safely and appropriately secured in car seats. They were waiting patiently at a light...they, the parents, survived but their children didn't. It is horrible. The news accounts I read said that there was nothing the parents could have done differently except not be in that place at that time.

I wonder where the driver had been where he got so drunk. Was he at a bar? At a party? He certainly is responsible and deserves to be held completely accountable but I wonder if there were others who could have or should have stepped up to keep him from driving or should have called 911 to report that he was getting in his truck drunk.

He was at the Redskins game.

Where did you see that? If true, and he was served at the game, the family should sue the vendors.

Why does DCUM think this is the fault of EVERYONE but the drunk driver?

First it was possibly the parents fault for possibly not having their kids buckled correctly?
Then in was the auto makers fault for making trucks too big and heavy (But-but-but, PHYSICS!!!)
Now it's the beverage vendors fault for selling him their wares?

NO!!! It's the damn drivers fault for putting the keys in the ignition and getting on the roads after drinking! NO ONE ELSE'S FAULT!!!!

This. No one was pouring drinks down his throat.

The sole person responsible is the person who chose to get drunk, and chose to drive after getting drunk. It's not hard to make different choices that don't put other people at risk, yet this selfish ahole couldn't be bothered to choose to think about anyone but himself.

They’re all getting sued.

When Noah Leota, the MoCo rookie cop, was run over and killed a few years back they (somehow) had the whole bar that served the driver shut down. Which is good!!
The Deadskins need to stop servince people pretty early. And if people can’t control themselves while tailgating them no more alcohol in the damned parking lot.

We were at the Redskins game. It ended around 7:15 and we were home before 8:00. They stop serving after the 3rd quarter, which was maybe 6:45? Th crash happened 3 hours later. So no, it was not the fault of the FedEx field vendors this guy was drunk. Obviously he was drinking long after the game ended.

How do you keep people from getting inebriated in the damned parking lot and then driving home?
Serious question.

Drunks will find a way to get drunk. It doesn't even matter if you close down the stadium parking lots, they'll drink in their cars or the parking lot of a liquor store or gas station.

Better to have major stadiums near metro stations. Might help some.

Problem is that the drunks who drive big trucks and think they're invincible always want to drive there.

[Anonymous]

Better to have major stadiums near metro stations. Might help some

Stop with your common sense suggestions of things contributing parties can do for the safety of the everybody else. It’s not the Redskins fault so they should not have to worry about anybody but their own bottom line. Ever.

[Anonymous]

That hwy is crazy. I feel like I'm in the fast and the furious. There were over 350 crashes this year on that highway. Maryland all around is a crazy dangerous place to drive in.

[Anonymous]

Can anybody tell me why the drink driver hasn't been charged yet??

FoIA allows the press to access to police reports, no?

There have been numerous accidents that have made local news since this horrific crash and they all report the names of the alleged and list the various charges. What is it about this situation that nothing else is "being done"?

Upthread it was suggested that a public figure, diplomat, a relative of a prominent figure is responsible...I guess that makes them above the law.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can anybody tell me why the drink driver hasn't been charged yet??

FoIA allows the press to access to police reports, no?

There have been numerous accidents that have made local news since this horrific crash and they all report the names of the alleged and list the various charges. What is it about this situation that nothing else is "being done"?

Upthread it was suggested that a public figure, diplomat, a relative of a prominent figure is responsible...I guess that makes them above the law.

This has been explained multiple times upthread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can anybody tell me why the drink driver hasn't been charged yet??

FoIA allows the press to access to police reports, no?

There have been numerous accidents that have made local news since this horrific crash and they all report the names of the alleged and list the various charges. What is it about this situation that nothing else is "being done"?

Upthread it was suggested that a public figure, diplomat, a relative of a prominent figure is responsible...I guess that makes them above the law.

In Maryland, in the case of a fatal/near-fatal crash, prosecutors almost always wait to formally file charges until they have the results of the crash investigation and (more importantly) the blood test results. The lab that conducts the blood analysis has a horrific backlog, so getting the results can take months. And there are all sorts of practical reasons to wait for those results...for one, it affects precisely what charges you file; second, if somehow the results come back negative, you don't want to have charged an innocent person in error; and third, once charges are filed the speedy trial clock starts running. The speedy trial thing is really important...in Maryland, the prosecution has 180 days from the time a defendant is arraigned to bring him to trial. If you charge him immediately and it takes six months to get the blood results back, you have an enormous problem.

-Your friendly MD prosecutor

[Anonymous]

^^ MD Prosecutor, can you explain why double jeopardy is being referenced in this case? I thought double jeopardy applies only AFTER an acquittal?

“Double jeopardy is a procedural defence that prevents an accused person from being tried again on the same (or similar) charges and on the same facts, following a valid acquittal or conviction”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_jeopardy

The Post article says this why MD cannot charge the driver with something now because they can’t upgrade or add more charges later. Your explaination of the speedy trial makes more sense as the reason.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^^ MD Prosecutor, can you explain why double jeopardy is being referenced in this case? I thought double jeopardy applies only AFTER an acquittal?

“Double jeopardy is a procedural defence that prevents an accused person from being tried again on the same (or similar) charges and on the same facts, following a valid acquittal or conviction”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_jeopardy

The Post article says this why MD cannot charge the driver with something now because they can’t upgrade or add more charges later. Your explaination of the speedy trial makes more sense as the reason.

Actually, the double jeopardy thing strikes me as plausible. In a typical fatality case, the defendant is charged with really serious stuff (auto manslaughter) and routine traffic stuff (negligent driving, failing to control speed, making an unsafe lane change, failing to drive right of center). The routine traffic stuff is exactly like a normal speeding citation; the defendant could walk into a courthouse and pay the citation (thus pleading guilty), just like you would with a speeding ticket. It starts to get really complicated from here, but there's a pretty good argument that by paying the $200 negligent driving fine, he could immunize himself from prosecution for the auto manslaughter charge.

The case is Warne v. State, if you're interested. https://caselaw.findlaw.com/md-court-of-special-appeals/1038212.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^ MD Prosecutor, can you explain why double jeopardy is being referenced in this case? I thought double jeopardy applies only AFTER an acquittal?

“Double jeopardy is a procedural defence that prevents an accused person from being tried again on the same (or similar) charges and on the same facts, following a valid acquittal or conviction”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_jeopardy

The Post article says this why MD cannot charge the driver with something now because they can’t upgrade or add more charges later. Your explaination of the speedy trial makes more sense as the reason.

Actually, the double jeopardy thing strikes me as plausible. In a typical fatality case, the defendant is charged with really serious stuff (auto manslaughter) and routine traffic stuff (negligent driving, failing to control speed, making an unsafe lane change, failing to drive right of center). The routine traffic stuff is exactly like a normal speeding citation; the defendant could walk into a courthouse and pay the citation (thus pleading guilty), just like you would with a speeding ticket. It starts to get really complicated from here, but there's a pretty good argument that by paying the $200 negligent driving fine, he could immunize himself from prosecution for the auto manslaughter charge.

The case is Warne v. State, if you're interested. https://caselaw.findlaw.com/md-court-of-special-appeals/1038212.html

I'll add...there's really no benefit to the prosecution to filing charges now. The only benefit is that he'd be arrested and you'd have a chance to argue to a judge that he should be held pretrial (that is, he shouldn't be allowed out on bail). In my experience, most judges won't hold an auto manslaughter defendant pretrial unless there's some reason to believe they're a flight risk (foreign passport, residence outside of the state).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^ MD Prosecutor, can you explain why double jeopardy is being referenced in this case? I thought double jeopardy applies only AFTER an acquittal?

“Double jeopardy is a procedural defence that prevents an accused person from being tried again on the same (or similar) charges and on the same facts, following a valid acquittal or conviction”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_jeopardy

The Post article says this why MD cannot charge the driver with something now because they can’t upgrade or add more charges later. Your explaination of the speedy trial makes more sense as the reason.

Actually, the double jeopardy thing strikes me as plausible. In a typical fatality case, the defendant is charged with really serious stuff (auto manslaughter) and routine traffic stuff (negligent driving, failing to control speed, making an unsafe lane change, failing to drive right of center). The routine traffic stuff is exactly like a normal speeding citation; the defendant could walk into a courthouse and pay the citation (thus pleading guilty), just like you would with a speeding ticket. It starts to get really complicated from here, but there's a pretty good argument that by paying the $200 negligent driving fine, he could immunize himself from prosecution for the auto manslaughter charge.

The case is Warne v. State, if you're interested. https://caselaw.findlaw.com/md-court-of-special-appeals/1038212.html

I'll add...there's really no benefit to the prosecution to filing charges now. The only benefit is that he'd be arrested and you'd have a chance to argue to a judge that he should be held pretrial (that is, he shouldn't be allowed out on bail). In my experience, most judges won't hold an auto manslaughter defendant pretrial unless there's some reason to believe they're a flight risk (foreign passport, residence outside of the state).

Ahhh ok, that makes sense. I was assuming he’s charged with something and then it’s takes time to go to trial and in the mean time more charges could have been added. Didn’t even think about he could just plead guilty to the lesser charge (like a DUI) and be done with the case.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:That hwy is crazy. I feel like I'm in the fast and the furious. There were over 350 crashes this year on that highway. Maryland all around is a crazy dangerous place to drive in.

But they’re going to put up speed cameras so that those that cause fatal accidents will have gotten a $40 speed camera ticket first .

[Anonymous]

I saw some video from FB of the children’s funeral. So sad. Was anyone charged yet?