Redshirted and Regretted It?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I novel idea here. We're all going to have to agree to disagree on this one. Here's where it seems we are:

1. I think everyone agrees that holding back a sept-feb birthday child in order to give them an advantage is inappropriate and should not be allowed by the schools... and that this is really "repeating" for development issues rather than redshirting

2. I think most people agree that deciding to hold back a July/Aug birthday is a decision probably best left to a parent and a school, and done for the right reasons this is perfectly acceptable and appropriate.

3. I think the big question is what about June, May, April, or March birthdays. There is probably legitimate room for disagreement on this... probably less so for a June, and more so for a March birthday. On this question, on this forum, we will NEVER reach full agreement or consensus... so let's just leave it at that.

I'm sure there are exceptions to the 3 positions above (ie someone who thinks its ok to hold back a Nov birthday or not ok to hold back an August)... but I think those people are outliers and are in the extreme minority.

Now... can we all just get along???

No. September b-days are the youngest of ALL of them. September (falling later in the year) boys were born AFTER the summer boys. Unless you're talking about the PRIOR year (which you didn't specify, but in any case I've never heard of).

Other than that, we can get along (although I just flat out refuse to worry about this horde of imaginary 7 year old Kindergarteners, and there's really nothing anyone can say that's likely to persuade me otherwise).

Not sure what you mean. The cut off date for most DC top schools is Sept 1... so most Sept 15 birthdays will be the oldest in their class when they begin (they'll turn 6 on Sept 15 of their K year).

Mea culpa. The cut-off date I was aware of is Sept. 30th. (I'm still not worried about the imaginary horde of 7-year-old Kindergartenders, though.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So it is ok to be teaching quadratic equations in a class designed for algebra and then forcing the kids who are all supposed to be taking algebra to instead hire tutors to learn algebra so they can understand quadratic equations?

(ie use this as an example, not as the actual situation)

No, you teach the Algebra but then have smaller groups for the more advanced students to work on quadratic equations.

This is called differentiated learning and is a big reason why us folks pay $30k per year for a top independent school education.

The PP is right... you are going to have a wide range of skills/abilities in every class no matter what the age range... and it will be different by subject. Little Johnny may be way ahead of the class in math, but lagging in verbal - that's where differentiated learning should help catch him up in verbal, and further accelerate his abilities in math... rather than "forcing him to the middle"

By the time students take subjects like algebra the teachers don't need to differentiate with a parallel curriculum. That occurs in elementary grades . People do pay top dollar for independent schools and along with that comes an expectation of integrity and equity. There is also an assumption that the school will deal with bullying, vandalism, and to the best of it's ability provide opportunities in a positive school culture.

Parents need to know if they are paying for is verging on an elementary multi-age classroom or another animal the combination or split grade level [2 curriculums]. That was a very unpopular innovation partially driven by budgets in public schools.

http://teachers.net/mentors/multiage/posts.html

[Anonymous]

I appreciate the detailed responses. Let me take some time to review this. On Question 2, you say there are 4-5 redshirted kids with Dec-Apr birthdays in each of your kids' grades. I am trying to understand percentages here. If the class size is 20-25 kids per grade, that's 20%. But I know some grades at some schools might have total class sizes of 60 kids or more, so the percentage is less than 10%. Approximately how many kids in the class where you are seeing 4-5 Dec-Apr redshirted kids?

[Anonymous]

I know moms who've held their sons back from starting for developmental reasons and it has really pained them. But they are doing the right thing for their sons, no question.

It sure seems, though, like a lot of these moms who support redshirting here are fairly angry and visceral. If you are comfortable with your decision, why so torqued and angry?

As with anything, you have people who do things for sincere reasons and people who do them because they have a natural predisposition toward entitlement. Lowering the bar is useful when it gives a kid time to catch up; lowering the bar so a kid can speed ahead is something else entirely.

[Anonymous]

Let's put this issue to the test.

I'd be interested in posts that detail how many current 7 year old kids are in K right now in the top DC area private schools. We're now in April... so a child that was born Sept 2-April 10 and redshirted for K would be 7 by now.

Please provide name of the school and the number of 7 year olds you are aware of in the current K class.

I'm betting the silence here will be deafening... but I could be proved wrong.

[Anonymous]

There are at least 4 equivalent of 7 year olds in one child's class and 3 in the other. (They are not in K, but if they were...)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I appreciate the detailed responses. Let me take some time to review this. On Question 2, you say there are 4-5 redshirted kids with Dec-Apr birthdays in each of your kids' grades. I am trying to understand percentages here. If the class size is 20-25 kids per grade, that's 20%. But I know some grades at some schools might have total class sizes of 60 kids or more, so the percentage is less than 10%. Approximately how many kids in the class where you are seeing 4-5 Dec-Apr redshirted kids?

Less than 10%. But I reiterate that the impact that this less than 10% has on the whole academic and social environment is disproportionate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are at least 4 equivalent of 7 year olds in one child's class and 3 in the other. (They are not in K, but if they were...)

Name the school and the grade and ages that are "equivalent to the 7". Generic posts with no details have no credibility. This is an anonymous forum so we have no idea who you are, but if you want us to believe this is happening at such epidemic proportions then it's time to prove it with data that can be verified if need be with the school

[Anonymous]

I do not understand why this topic causes so much fury and analysis. My child is in Middle School. He switched from public to private. There is a considerabe age spread because of redshirting that was done in earlier grades. But it is simply not an issue. I am not the least bit interested in getting specifics, numbers, percentages, exact spread, etc. I suspect it's at least 18 months. It doesn't matter! It never, and I mean never, comes up -- except when I see a thread like this and it reminds me of the age spread in my son's class.

I know several students (four come to mind, all in Middle School but none at my son's school) who were redshirted when they were younger and it's worked well for them. One mom did muse that she doesn't know if she'd do it again, and I mused that I sometimes wished I had. If your instincts are telling you to do it, then it's probably advisable. Good luck figuring it out. I know these decisions are tough but please remember that things tend to work out!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I second the PP's comments. At times it seems as though proponents of redshirting feel as though they are making a decision for their child in a vacuum. They selfishly act as though the rest of the parent body should just step aside as they do what's "right" for their child, without any ownership over how this affects the other children in their child's community (ie: classroom). And then to have the audacity to ask others who do not support redshirting to justify their position....it leaves me mystified. My children are neither old nor young for their classes, but having children in the class who should in theory not be there due to their ages, does nothing helpful for the teacher or overall classroom dynamics. [b]And one further point-- proponents of redshirting should not ask all other parents to "butt out" of their decision-making process for their own children, but then turn around and ask those who are against redshirting to justify their views.

Exactly. Personally, I think that it's ridiculous that so many are redshirting and that the schools are pushing it so hard. Did the schools start to push it first, or did the parents decide to do it, and then the schools, liking the results, started to push it? Anyway, I'm NOT a fan. In my opinion, parents should generally send their kids on time AND the schools should have an age-appropriate curriculum -- not a curriculum fit for 6 or 7 year-olds. However, I realize that this is just wishful thinking on my part and that reality is what it is. And that's why I am actually considering redshirting -- not because I am a fan, not because I think it's a good practice as a general rule, but because if I don't redshirt, I am ensuring that most boys in my son's class will be 6-12 months older, and some even 18 months older (at least at one particular school). Call me a hovering helicopter mom, but I fear the potential consequences. Will I feel guilty for redshirting if I end up doing it? Maybe. Call me pessimistic, but I am starting to feel like having a ds with an August b-day is a lose-lose in terms of deciding when to start. school Start "on time," and I could be putting him at a disadvantage. Start him "late," and he could forever internalize that he "wasn't good enough" to start on time. See, if redshirting wasn't so prevalent, I wouldn't have these concerns.

[Anonymous]

14:04 and anyone else who's in knots over redshirting:You should talk to admissios folks when you apply about their current pre-K and K and even first grade. They should have the birthday range files right there in their offices during the interview. (Ask ahead, of course.) They will take your views into consideration. I'm sure they've worked with conflicted parents before. By then you might have a clearer sense of what is right for your child. You could also consult an EC and ask your pediatrician, too (if your pediatrician really knows and "gets" your child.)

Again, I have not heard one disaster story related to redshirting -- not one. (My child's older, in MS.) Good luck.

[Anonymous]

So clearly you weren't at the Ba'mizvah where the sixth grade girls were doing lap dances.

[Anonymous]

It doesn't concern me. Truth is, smarter is different from older. The alleged unfair advantage over others, if any, is minimal and short-lived. But for the kid involved, having a positive early school experience can make a dramatic difference. I've definitely seen one (bright/clumsy/small/young) kid who would have been much better off had his parents waited a year. When he was the oldest in preschool, he was a responsible caretaker type. As the youngest in real school, he ended up in the troublemaker/class clown role and either couldn't shake it and/or settled in.

From K on I've seen teachers focus on this kid's behavior rather than his intellect. When you respond to him as a smart kid with something interesting to say, he acts like a smart kid with something interesting to say. When you respond to him as an immature kid who lacks impulse control and blurts things out, he acts like an immature kid who lacks impulse control. Classes have their own ecological niches and expectations can be self-fulfilling.

[Anonymous]

18:19 Well said. I wonder why the teachers didn't ask him to repeat K.

[Anonymous]

18:08 Oh yes I was. I was the one that notified the parents.