pledge of allegiance in schools?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why horrified?

Because it is encouraging a young child to be rude, defiant, confused, entitled, self-conscious, me-centered and much more. Granted, it is a small thing, but parents who are of this mindset are on their way to raising obnoxious brats.

They are raising kids less likely to be sheep.

I
"Pumpkins, remember what Mummy told you: some of your friends and teachers, OK probably 90% of the people at your school, may say something about God, and may think you should be respectful and thankful that you live in this country. But my precious shouldn't have to go along with that because Mummy knows more about all of this than they do! So you show them, Snowflake. If you hear your friends chanting something to the flag, you refuse to say the word "God!" Got that???!!! I know you don't understand all of this, but you do this for Mummy, OK?"

Please stop using the term 'snowflake' like that. It's so mean and sarcastic. Not to mention so over-done on this website, and unoriginal. If you are so eager to insult me or make me feel bad, find a way to do it that does not involve insulting my innocent child by sarcastically
implying that there's nothing special or unique about him/her.

What would you say to those proud relatives who have lost their loved ones stopping tyranny and oppression? Your kid was a sheep? Not mine? What do you tell your innocent child when you take them to the National Mall and see the memorials to our fallen? "The hottest place in hell is reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of great moral crisis." -JFK

I respect your right to have your own opinions. You made my blood boil. Karma is a bitch. Good luck with that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For those who grew up in another country, do they not have something similar to pledging allegiance to the flag in schools like we have here? I was born and raised here but I guess I always assumed that other countries had similar practices. Is this not the case? Just curious.

In my country, no. We do not have a pledge or mantra we say.

I think it's spoky you all do it here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why horrified?

Because it is encouraging a young child to be rude, defiant, confused, entitled, self-conscious, me-centered and much more. Granted, it is a small thing, but parents who are of this mindset are on their way to raising obnoxious brats.

They are raising kids less likely to be sheep.

I
"Pumpkins, remember what Mummy told you: some of your friends and teachers, OK probably 90% of the people at your school, may say something about God, and may think you should be respectful and thankful that you live in this country. But my precious shouldn't have to go along with that because Mummy knows more about all of this than they do! So you show them, Snowflake. If you hear your friends chanting something to the flag, you refuse to say the word "God!" Got that???!!! I know you don't understand all of this, but you do this for Mummy, OK?"

Please stop using the term 'snowflake' like that. It's so mean and sarcastic. Not to mention so over-done on this website, and unoriginal. If you are so eager to insult me or make me feel bad, find a way to do it that does not involve insulting my innocent child by sarcastically implying that there's nothing special or unique about him/her.

I don't think there is any implication. Clearly you think your child is special and unique. Maybe you take that view to an extreme. In reality, your child is probably not those things and your strong insistence to the contrary puts you squarely in the camp deserving of the "snowflake" derision.

I love how you think "snowflake" is overdone, however. That's really very cute. As if you think you are some arbiter of these things.

My child IS special and unique. So is yours. So is everyone's.

I'm not trying to be snarky, but if EVERY child is special and unique, then isn't being "special and unique" simply "ordinary"?

I laughed out loud and my snowflake dogs gave me an inquisitive look.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, when I was a kid, I didn't even notice the "under God" part. It was just words. I didn't think about the meaning until I was much older.

Now, the Lord's Prayer, which my first-grade teacher made us recite, I objected to strongly. (It was a Christian school but I am not Christian.) I finally had my mother say something to her to get me excused. Before that, if you didn't say either the prayer or the pledge, you had to march up to the front of the room and say them by yourself!

Then why on earth did you go to a Christian school?

My mother taught there, so it was free for us kids. My family wasn't going to turn down a first-rate private school education that we otherwise could not have afforded.

This seems to be recurring theme I am hearing: More and more people are resentful their parents chose low cost or free education Christian schools, specifically Catholic, provided either as a benefit to attract great teachers or scholarships to the needy. I received a free Catholic education. My mom would not have accepted this benefit or charity from people who supported an institution she did not morally support. I am sorry your mom did that to you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am not very religious...and I absolutely love the pledge of allegiance ...I got very emotional when my Kindergartner did it last year. It brought back so many great school memories.

I am a traditionalist about this and feel it should be chanted the way it was intended. If it helps...I know some little kids that say "under Dog" ...maybe you could teach your kid to recite it this way.

+1

I loved saying the pledge growing up & taking turns leading the pledge in class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am not very religious...and I absolutely love the pledge of allegiance ...I got very emotional when my Kindergartner did it last year. It brought back so many great school memories.

I am a traditionalist about this and feel it should be chanted the way it was intended. If it helps...I know some little kids that say "under Dog" ...maybe you could teach your kid to recite it this way.

+1

I loved saying the pledge growing up & taking turns leading the pledge in class.

Am I missing something, but why is there a need to pledge every day
Isn't a pledge something like an oath. So why make an oath daily? Are you that wishy washy that it has to be a daily occurence?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But none of you have a problem spending or making money that says In God we trust...........

A lot of us do, actually. But we don't have a choice.

You do, you just are too much of a coward to go move someplace else and stand up for what you believe in. Go live in Kenya, they don't have that on their money.

So "love it or leave it?"

That's not what our founding fathers believed. That's what Kings and Dictators believe.

[Anonymous]

I'm the PP who pointed out a couple of pages back that pledges like that tend to be for fascists, communists, and errr, Americans. I didn't even realize that it was still said on a daily basis in public schools--I thought it had gone the way of public school prayers. I went to an American school in another country for a couple of years in elementary school, and my parents were shocked when we had to do it in assembly every morning, hand on heart facing the flag....

My kids are older (middle school), but they go to one of the international schools here. No pledges, I'm sure the parents would be if it were even remotely suggested, regardless of country/God.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why horrified?

Because it is encouraging a young child to be rude, defiant, confused, entitled, self-conscious, me-centered and much more. Granted, it is a small thing, but parents who are of this mindset are on their way to raising obnoxious brats.

They are raising kids less likely to be sheep.

I
"Pumpkins, remember what Mummy told you: some of your friends and teachers, OK probably 90% of the people at your school, may say something about God, and may think you should be respectful and thankful that you live in this country. But my precious shouldn't have to go along with that because Mummy knows more about all of this than they do! So you show them, Snowflake. If you hear your friends chanting something to the flag, you refuse to say the word "God!" Got that???!!! I know you don't understand all of this, but you do this for Mummy, OK?"

Please stop using the term 'snowflake' like that. It's so mean and sarcastic. Not to mention so over-done on this website, and unoriginal. If you are so eager to insult me or make me feel bad, find a way to do it that does not involve insulting my innocent child by sarcastically
implying that there's nothing special or unique about him/her.

What would you say to those proud relatives who have lost their loved ones stopping tyranny and oppression? Your kid was a sheep? Not mine? What do you tell your innocent child when you take them to the National Mall and see the memorials to our fallen? "The hottest place in hell is reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of great moral crisis." -JFK

I respect your right to have your own opinions. You made my blood boil. Karma is a bitch. Good luck with that.

What would you say to my FIL who served in the army for 40 years, but does not say the Pledge (when it is said after the national anthem?)

Is he not American enough for you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How is saying the pledge optional?
It is not like those who do not say it can be in another room doing some other activity. If you do not say it everyone knows and that reflects badly on you. There are social consequences and teachers attitudes and so on

I've never experienced any negative consequences as a result of not saying the pledge, and I stopped saying it in elementary school. Of course, I suppose it depends on your environment. I prefer to avoid environments where not saying the pledge is assumed to reflect badly on you.

I tried not saying the Pledge once -- I was in 3rd grade. The teacher stopped the class in the middle of the pledge and asked me what I was doing. She just stood there, glaring at me, until I said sorry, and started saying the pledge. I never tried not saying it again.

I'm guessing this was in the late '70s. You do realize a lot has changed since then, right? Or do you still use rotary dial phones, and put a LP on when you get home from the market?

[Anonymous]

This thread is amazing to me. I was reading through the debate about God being recited in the pledge and respected those opinions opposite of mine and thought about it and was enjoying the debate.

Somehow, now it's turned into a "I don't even want my kids to recite the pledge of allegience in school" debate? It's astounding. Let me ask those of you with multi-country loyalties (I'm talking to you, 4-passport poster) and others who so proudly don't want to recite the pledge. If this country was in war with one of your other countries, where would your loyalties lie? You are pledging your allegience to this country. It means that you will align yourself with the country in which you live and whose government you support when we are at war. If you feel SO strongly that you do not want to align with the US, then what's to stop you from disclosing our national secrets (if you know of any) to your country?

You do realize that violating your allegience to your sovereign is called treason, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This thread is amazing to me. I was reading through the debate about God being recited in the pledge and respected those opinions opposite of mine and thought about it and was enjoying the debate.

Somehow, now it's turned into a "I don't even want my kids to recite the pledge of allegience in school" debate? It's astounding. Let me ask those of you with multi-country loyalties (I'm talking to you, 4-passport poster) and others who so proudly don't want to recite the pledge. If this country was in war with one of your other countries, where would your loyalties lie? You are pledging your allegience to this country. It means that you will align yourself with the country in which you live and whose government you support when we are at war. If you feel SO strongly that you do not want to align with the US, then what's to stop you from disclosing our national secrets (if you know of any) to your country?

You do realize that violating your allegience to your sovereign is called treason, right?

Actually, it's called sedition: overt conduct, such as speech and organization, that is deemed by the legal authority to tend toward insurrection against the established order.

This is treason: Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States


And you're an idiot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread is amazing to me. I was reading through the debate about God being recited in the pledge and respected those opinions opposite of mine and thought about it and was enjoying the debate.

Somehow, now it's turned into a "I don't even want my kids to recite the pledge of allegience in school" debate? It's astounding. Let me ask those of you with multi-country loyalties (I'm talking to you, 4-passport poster) and others who so proudly don't want to recite the pledge. If this country was in war with one of your other countries, where would your loyalties lie? You are pledging your allegience to this country. It means that you will align yourself with the country in which you live and whose government you support when we are at war. If you feel SO strongly that you do not want to align with the US, then what's to stop you from disclosing our national secrets (if you know of any) to your country?

You do realize that violating your allegience to your sovereign is called treason, right?

Actually, it's called sedition: overt conduct, such as speech and organization, that is deemed by the legal authority to tend toward insurrection against the established order.

This is treason: Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States


And you're an idiot.

ps. sovereign implies monarch. you may not have noticed, but we don't have one anymore.

[Anonymous]

Pledging allegiance every day is creepy.

I did this one, once. I feel like that should cover it..duh. Patriotic enough for everyone?

I, _____, having been appointed an officer in the Army of the United States, as indicated above in the grade of _____ do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign or domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservations or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I am about to enter; So help me God."

[Anonymous]

I may be an idiot for not getting the official legal definition of treason down perfectly, but you still didn't answer my question. If you're so adverse to pledging your allegience to this country, what are you going to do in war? allign with your other countries?