Berkeley vs HYP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm curious about the geographic background of those who consistently criticize Cal and other elite public universities. My bet is the bias against publics comes from posters in states like MA or NY, where the flagship universities lack the prestige of schools like Cal, Michigan, or UVA.

Having grown up in CA, I've always viewed Cal as academically equivalent to Stanford, and I deeply respect the egalitarian mission of public universities. Their multiple admission pathways, including community college transfers, reflect a commitment to opportunity and social mobility that elite privates have historically lacked, and probably still do since they've priced out the middle class.

The top students at Cal are academically comparable to those at any Ivy or other elite private, even if they were admitted without test scores. Meanwhile, plenty of Ivy students coast through on family connections, get powered through private feeder schools for the wealthy, or basically just get ahead the way the privileged always seem to do.

Much of the criticism centers on large class sizes and the presence of "average" students at public universities. This reveals an elitist mindset, which is the fear that associating with students of varying abilities will somehow diminish one's own education or prospects. I went to an elite law school and my education wasn't diminished by some of the undeserving privileged dopes wasting space around campus. Some less than elite but hardworking kids are going to do nothing but enhance everyone's experience.

I'd choose a no test score community college transfer who worked their way to Berkeley over an entitled private highs school at Yale grad any day. The former demonstrates grit, determination, and genuine academic achievement.

This made me laugh. No.

+1. I stopped reading the wall of text after that line. It tells you all you need to know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm curious about the geographic background of those who consistently criticize Cal and other elite public universities. My bet is the bias against publics comes from posters in states like MA or NY, where the flagship universities lack the prestige of schools like Cal, Michigan, or UVA.

Having grown up in CA, I've always viewed Cal as academically equivalent to Stanford, and I deeply respect the egalitarian mission of public universities. Their multiple admission pathways, including community college transfers, reflect a commitment to opportunity and social mobility that elite privates have historically lacked, and probably still do since they've priced out the middle class.

The top students at Cal are academically comparable to those at any Ivy or other elite private, even if they were admitted without test scores. Meanwhile, plenty of Ivy students coast through on family connections, get powered through private feeder schools for the wealthy, or basically just get ahead the way the privileged always seem to do.

Much of the criticism centers on large class sizes and the presence of "average" students at public universities. This reveals an elitist mindset, which is the fear that associating with students of varying abilities will somehow diminish one's own education or prospects. I went to an elite law school and my education wasn't diminished by some of the undeserving privileged dopes wasting space around campus. Some less than elite but hardworking kids are going to do nothing but enhance everyone's experience.

I'd choose a no test score community college transfer who worked their way to Berkeley over an entitled private highs school at Yale grad any day. The former demonstrates grit, determination, and genuine academic achievement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Berkeley definitely has a wow factor but HYP have a bit more wow factor.

“Wow” is not what comes to mind when I hear of a top student attending Berkeley oos.

“How” is the word that comes to mind. “How” could this process have been approached differently to get a better outcome?

lol, are you for real? Poor Berkeley students attending some of best programs in the country when they could have gone straight to UVA.

Mind boggling how complete ignoramuses imagine themselves seers of wisdom!

You are cherry picking rankings to make Berkeley look better than it is.

No question the undergrad experience at UVA is better than Berkeley.

State flagships tend to have an inflated reputation in their home state. Are you living in California? The rest of the country barely thinks about Berkeley at all. You are out of touch with reality.

Just so you know, opinions about Berkeley in California are probably as polarizing, if not more so, than OOS. We are more familiar with many issues related to housing, class availability and toxic competition. It isn’t romanticized. I know 2 kids from my son’s class who got accepted to Berkeley and then got off the waitlist for UCLA and will go there instead. It is a great fit for some but not others.

Polarizing not for Cal's status as public, but because of the reasons you mentioned and the fact that it has been destination for strange people.

Who are those strange people? UC’s still end up having strong undergrad programs. It’s fine if you don’t like the culture or student life and decide something else is better for you.

At our good CA public high school about 30% of all students apply to Berkeley, and 3% get admitted (10-15), the numbers are similar for UCLA. That’s in line with the admission rate of about 10% for both Cal and UCLA. They are top students, the admission is very competitive.

HYPSM admission rate is about 5%, so they are more competitive, although some programs at Berkeley like MET (dual engineering and business degree) have admission rates below 3%. For comparison UVA admission rate is 17%.

The truth is plenty of students want to go to Berkeley in and out of state.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Berkeley definitely has a wow factor but HYP have a bit more wow factor.

“Wow” is not what comes to mind when I hear of a top student attending Berkeley oos.

“How” is the word that comes to mind. “How” could this process have been approached differently to get a better outcome?

lol, are you for real? Poor Berkeley students attending some of best programs in the country when they could have gone straight to UVA.

Mind boggling how complete ignoramuses imagine themselves seers of wisdom!

You are cherry picking rankings to make Berkeley look better than it is.

No question the undergrad experience at UVA is better than Berkeley.

State flagships tend to have an inflated reputation in their home state. Are you living in California? The rest of the country barely thinks about Berkeley at all. You are out of touch with reality.

Just so you know, opinions about Berkeley in California are probably as polarizing, if not more so, than OOS. We are more familiar with many issues related to housing, class availability and toxic competition. It isn’t romanticized. I know 2 kids from my son’s class who got accepted to Berkeley and then got off the waitlist for UCLA and will go there instead. It is a great fit for some but not others.

Polarizing not for Cal's status as public, but because of the reasons you mentioned and the fact that it has been destination for strange people.

Who are those strange people? UC’s still end up having strong undergrad programs. It’s fine if you don’t like the culture or student life and decide something else is better for you.

At our good CA public high school about 30% of all students apply to Berkeley, and 3% get admitted (10-15), the numbers are similar for UCLA. That’s in line with the admission rate of about 10% for both Cal and UCLA. They are top students, the admission is very competitive.

HYPSM admission rate is about 5%, so they are more competitive, although some programs at Berkeley like MET (dual engineering and business degree) have admission rates below 3%. For comparison UVA admission rate is 17%.

The truth is plenty of students want to go to Berkeley in and out of state.

This looks about right for good CA public schools. It also holds for most good privates as well with acceptances in line with the overall average for UCLA and UCB.

In my experience there is a difference between public and private in terms of who attends UCB. At most of the top bay area privates the very top students do not covet (or attend UCB or UCLA). They mostly target top privates as their first choice. My top 5% kid did this as well with no interest in attending UCB based on her experience living in the bay area and knowing who went from her school. The school CCs actually ask the very top kids not to apply to UCLA and UCB unless they are actually interested in attending because the acceptance rates never vary by more than a kid or two. The UCs seem to be much more attractive to top public school kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Berkeley definitely has a wow factor but HYP have a bit more wow factor.

“Wow” is not what comes to mind when I hear of a top student attending Berkeley oos.

“How” is the word that comes to mind. “How” could this process have been approached differently to get a better outcome?

lol, are you for real? Poor Berkeley students attending some of best programs in the country when they could have gone straight to UVA.

Mind boggling how complete ignoramuses imagine themselves seers of wisdom!

You are cherry picking rankings to make Berkeley look better than it is.

No question the undergrad experience at UVA is better than Berkeley.

State flagships tend to have an inflated reputation in their home state. Are you living in California? The rest of the country barely thinks about Berkeley at all. You are out of touch with reality.

Just so you know, opinions about Berkeley in California are probably as polarizing, if not more so, than OOS. We are more familiar with many issues related to housing, class availability and toxic competition. It isn’t romanticized. I know 2 kids from my son’s class who got accepted to Berkeley and then got off the waitlist for UCLA and will go there instead. It is a great fit for some but not others.

Polarizing not for Cal's status as public, but because of the reasons you mentioned and the fact that it has been destination for strange people.

Who are those strange people? UC’s still end up having strong undergrad programs. It’s fine if you don’t like the culture or student life and decide something else is better for you.

At our good CA public high school about 30% of all students apply to Berkeley, and 3% get admitted (10-15), the numbers are similar for UCLA. That’s in line with the admission rate of about 10% for both Cal and UCLA. They are top students, the admission is very competitive.

HYPSM admission rate is about 5%, so they are more competitive, although some programs at Berkeley like MET (dual engineering and business degree) have admission rates below 3%. For comparison UVA admission rate is 17%.

The truth is plenty of students want to go to Berkeley in and out of state.

This looks about right for good CA public schools. It also holds for most good privates as well with acceptances in line with the overall average for UCLA and UCB.

In my experience there is a difference between public and private in terms of who attends UCB. At most of the top bay area privates the very top students do not covet (or attend UCB or UCLA). They mostly target top privates as their first choice. My top 5% kid did this as well with no interest in attending UCB based on her experience living in the bay area and knowing who went from her school. The school CCs actually ask the very top kids not to apply to UCLA and UCB unless they are actually interested in attending because the acceptance rates never vary by more than a kid or two. The UCs seem to be much more attractive to top public school kids.

That makes a lot of sense. If you pay $50k a year in tuition at a private high school you’re not going to blink at $60k tuition at Stanford, if you’re competitive enough to be admitted. But all these schools are more or less lottery tickets, and it’s conceivable that most applicants, top 5% included, will not get in HYPSM. The admission strategy may or may not include Berkeley, but a decent number go there. For College Preparatory, an “elite” private high school in the Bay Area, Berkeley is the third most attended university after Chicago and Swarthmore. The attended universities list skews private, but again we’re talking people that are not concerned with cost. Either way Berkeley is there in the mix with Ivies, LACs, etc. I don’t know a single person that would look down at Cal as not worthy enough.

Not sure I understand the comment about knowing who went to Berkeley from her high school. Is it that she doesn’t want to mix with the poor, the nerdy, or the strivers? Seems kind of shallow to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Berkeley definitely has a wow factor but HYP have a bit more wow factor.

“Wow” is not what comes to mind when I hear of a top student attending Berkeley oos.

“How” is the word that comes to mind. “How” could this process have been approached differently to get a better outcome?

lol, are you for real? Poor Berkeley students attending some of best programs in the country when they could have gone straight to UVA.

Mind boggling how complete ignoramuses imagine themselves seers of wisdom!

You are cherry picking rankings to make Berkeley look better than it is.

No question the undergrad experience at UVA is better than Berkeley.

State flagships tend to have an inflated reputation in their home state. Are you living in California? The rest of the country barely thinks about Berkeley at all. You are out of touch with reality.

Just so you know, opinions about Berkeley in California are probably as polarizing, if not more so, than OOS. We are more familiar with many issues related to housing, class availability and toxic competition. It isn’t romanticized. I know 2 kids from my son’s class who got accepted to Berkeley and then got off the waitlist for UCLA and will go there instead. It is a great fit for some but not others.

Polarizing not for Cal's status as public, but because of the reasons you mentioned and the fact that it has been destination for strange people.

Who are those strange people? UC’s still end up having strong undergrad programs. It’s fine if you don’t like the culture or student life and decide something else is better for you.

At our good CA public high school about 30% of all students apply to Berkeley, and 3% get admitted (10-15), the numbers are similar for UCLA. That’s in line with the admission rate of about 10% for both Cal and UCLA. They are top students, the admission is very competitive.

HYPSM admission rate is about 5%, so they are more competitive, although some programs at Berkeley like MET (dual engineering and business degree) have admission rates below 3%. For comparison UVA admission rate is 17%.

The truth is plenty of students want to go to Berkeley in and out of state.

This looks about right for good CA public schools. It also holds for most good privates as well with acceptances in line with the overall average for UCLA and UCB.

In my experience there is a difference between public and private in terms of who attends UCB. At most of the top bay area privates the very top students do not covet (or attend UCB or UCLA). They mostly target top privates as their first choice. My top 5% kid did this as well with no interest in attending UCB based on her experience living in the bay area and knowing who went from her school. The school CCs actually ask the very top kids not to apply to UCLA and UCB unless they are actually interested in attending because the acceptance rates never vary by more than a kid or two. The UCs seem to be much more attractive to top public school kids.

That makes a lot of sense. If you pay $50k a year in tuition at a private high school you’re not going to blink at $60k tuition at Stanford, if you’re competitive enough to be admitted. But all these schools are more or less lottery tickets, and it’s conceivable that most applicants, top 5% included, will not get in HYPSM. The admission strategy may or may not include Berkeley, but a decent number go there. For College Preparatory, an “elite” private high school in the Bay Area, Berkeley is the third most attended university after Chicago and Swarthmore. The attended universities list skews private, but again we’re talking people that are not concerned with cost. Either way Berkeley is there in the mix with Ivies, LACs, etc. I don’t know a single person that would look down at Cal as not worthy enough.

Not sure I understand the comment about knowing who went to Berkeley from her high school. Is it that she doesn’t want to mix with the poor, the nerdy, or the strivers? Seems kind of shallow to me.

You are tone deaf. PP clearly says top students have "no interest in attending UCB".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Berkeley definitely has a wow factor but HYP have a bit more wow factor.

“Wow” is not what comes to mind when I hear of a top student attending Berkeley oos.

“How” is the word that comes to mind. “How” could this process have been approached differently to get a better outcome?

lol, are you for real? Poor Berkeley students attending some of best programs in the country when they could have gone straight to UVA.

Mind boggling how complete ignoramuses imagine themselves seers of wisdom!

You are cherry picking rankings to make Berkeley look better than it is.

No question the undergrad experience at UVA is better than Berkeley.

State flagships tend to have an inflated reputation in their home state. Are you living in California? The rest of the country barely thinks about Berkeley at all. You are out of touch with reality.

Just so you know, opinions about Berkeley in California are probably as polarizing, if not more so, than OOS. We are more familiar with many issues related to housing, class availability and toxic competition. It isn’t romanticized. I know 2 kids from my son’s class who got accepted to Berkeley and then got off the waitlist for UCLA and will go there instead. It is a great fit for some but not others.

Polarizing not for Cal's status as public, but because of the reasons you mentioned and the fact that it has been destination for strange people.

Who are those strange people? UC’s still end up having strong undergrad programs. It’s fine if you don’t like the culture or student life and decide something else is better for you.

At our good CA public high school about 30% of all students apply to Berkeley, and 3% get admitted (10-15), the numbers are similar for UCLA. That’s in line with the admission rate of about 10% for both Cal and UCLA. They are top students, the admission is very competitive.

HYPSM admission rate is about 5%, so they are more competitive, although some programs at Berkeley like MET (dual engineering and business degree) have admission rates below 3%. For comparison UVA admission rate is 17%.

The truth is plenty of students want to go to Berkeley in and out of state.

This looks about right for good CA public schools. It also holds for most good privates as well with acceptances in line with the overall average for UCLA and UCB.

In my experience there is a difference between public and private in terms of who attends UCB. At most of the top bay area privates the very top students do not covet (or attend UCB or UCLA). They mostly target top privates as their first choice. My top 5% kid did this as well with no interest in attending UCB based on her experience living in the bay area and knowing who went from her school. The school CCs actually ask the very top kids not to apply to UCLA and UCB unless they are actually interested in attending because the acceptance rates never vary by more than a kid or two. The UCs seem to be much more attractive to top public school kids.

That makes a lot of sense. If you pay $50k a year in tuition at a private high school you’re not going to blink at $60k tuition at Stanford, if you’re competitive enough to be admitted. But all these schools are more or less lottery tickets, and it’s conceivable that most applicants, top 5% included, will not get in HYPSM. The admission strategy may or may not include Berkeley, but a decent number go there. For College Preparatory, an “elite” private high school in the Bay Area, Berkeley is the third most attended university after Chicago and Swarthmore. The attended universities list skews private, but again we’re talking people that are not concerned with cost. Either way Berkeley is there in the mix with Ivies, LACs, etc. I don’t know a single person that would look down at Cal as not worthy enough.

Not sure I understand the comment about knowing who went to Berkeley from her high school. Is it that she doesn’t want to mix with the poor, the nerdy, or the strivers? Seems kind of shallow to me.

I give credit to UC admissions, they do identify the top students, that can be clearly seen in my kids schools SCOIR data. Quite a few kids do go to UCB from her school every year but the very top students for the most part (some exceptions of course) do not consider UCB as a top choice. It's not looking down on UCB, it's the environment (which has been well covered) along with the crazy admissions process for the top UCs. There is also a very clear racial dimension in who chooses UCB among the top students at our school.

I'm not sure why you would insinuate that my child is shallow because she wasn't interested in UCB? Seems pretty shallow to me, especially since you know nothing about her except that she was in the top 5% of her class at a top Bay area private.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Berkeley definitely has a wow factor but HYP have a bit more wow factor.

“Wow” is not what comes to mind when I hear of a top student attending Berkeley oos.

“How” is the word that comes to mind. “How” could this process have been approached differently to get a better outcome?

lol, are you for real? Poor Berkeley students attending some of best programs in the country when they could have gone straight to UVA.

Mind boggling how complete ignoramuses imagine themselves seers of wisdom!

You are cherry picking rankings to make Berkeley look better than it is.

No question the undergrad experience at UVA is better than Berkeley.

State flagships tend to have an inflated reputation in their home state. Are you living in California? The rest of the country barely thinks about Berkeley at all. You are out of touch with reality.

Just so you know, opinions about Berkeley in California are probably as polarizing, if not more so, than OOS. We are more familiar with many issues related to housing, class availability and toxic competition. It isn’t romanticized. I know 2 kids from my son’s class who got accepted to Berkeley and then got off the waitlist for UCLA and will go there instead. It is a great fit for some but not others.

Polarizing not for Cal's status as public, but because of the reasons you mentioned and the fact that it has been destination for strange people.

Who are those strange people? UC’s still end up having strong undergrad programs. It’s fine if you don’t like the culture or student life and decide something else is better for you.

At our good CA public high school about 30% of all students apply to Berkeley, and 3% get admitted (10-15), the numbers are similar for UCLA. That’s in line with the admission rate of about 10% for both Cal and UCLA. They are top students, the admission is very competitive.

HYPSM admission rate is about 5%, so they are more competitive, although some programs at Berkeley like MET (dual engineering and business degree) have admission rates below 3%. For comparison UVA admission rate is 17%.

The truth is plenty of students want to go to Berkeley in and out of state.

This looks about right for good CA public schools. It also holds for most good privates as well with acceptances in line with the overall average for UCLA and UCB.

In my experience there is a difference between public and private in terms of who attends UCB. At most of the top bay area privates the very top students do not covet (or attend UCB or UCLA). They mostly target top privates as their first choice. My top 5% kid did this as well with no interest in attending UCB based on her experience living in the bay area and knowing who went from her school. The school CCs actually ask the very top kids not to apply to UCLA and UCB unless they are actually interested in attending because the acceptance rates never vary by more than a kid or two. The UCs seem to be much more attractive to top public school kids.

That makes a lot of sense. If you pay $50k a year in tuition at a private high school you’re not going to blink at $60k tuition at Stanford, if you’re competitive enough to be admitted. But all these schools are more or less lottery tickets, and it’s conceivable that most applicants, top 5% included, will not get in HYPSM. The admission strategy may or may not include Berkeley, but a decent number go there. For College Preparatory, an “elite” private high school in the Bay Area, Berkeley is the third most attended university after Chicago and Swarthmore. The attended universities list skews private, but again we’re talking people that are not concerned with cost. Either way Berkeley is there in the mix with Ivies, LACs, etc. I don’t know a single person that would look down at Cal as not worthy enough.

Not sure I understand the comment about knowing who went to Berkeley from her high school. Is it that she doesn’t want to mix with the poor, the nerdy, or the strivers? Seems kind of shallow to me.

You are tone deaf. PP clearly says top students have "no interest in attending UCB".

Serious question, are you dumb?

Because whatever personal anecdotal assertion the PP makes, that top private high school students in the Bay Area don’t covet or attend Berkeley or UCLA, I gave a counter example of a top private high school in the Bay Area whose students attend Berkeley and UCLA in significant numbers.

Are you going to believe some pretentious and smug Karen on an anonymous forum, or statistics publish by said high school?

See for yourself:
https://www.college-prep.org/list-detail?pk=75495

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Berkeley definitely has a wow factor but HYP have a bit more wow factor.

“Wow” is not what comes to mind when I hear of a top student attending Berkeley oos.

“How” is the word that comes to mind. “How” could this process have been approached differently to get a better outcome?

lol, are you for real? Poor Berkeley students attending some of best programs in the country when they could have gone straight to UVA.

Mind boggling how complete ignoramuses imagine themselves seers of wisdom!

You are cherry picking rankings to make Berkeley look better than it is.

No question the undergrad experience at UVA is better than Berkeley.

This rings true for my son’s top Bay Area private. Most of the wealthy kids go to private universities. We could pay for private no problem. My son didn’t want to go out of state. He didn’t have the chops for my alma mater, Stanford, or for Cal, UCLA, Pomona or CMC. I wasn’t going to pay good money for Pitzer or Occidental. So he ended up Davis. He loves it there! The kids are just as smart as those at Cal but the learning is much more collaborative and there’s no gatekeeping with the clubs. I love that I’m spending less to educate, house and feed him than I did just to educate him at his SF private.

State flagships tend to have an inflated reputation in their home state. Are you living in California? The rest of the country barely thinks about Berkeley at all. You are out of touch with reality.

Just so you know, opinions about Berkeley in California are probably as polarizing, if not more so, than OOS. We are more familiar with many issues related to housing, class availability and toxic competition. It isn’t romanticized. I know 2 kids from my son’s class who got accepted to Berkeley and then got off the waitlist for UCLA and will go there instead. It is a great fit for some but not others.

Polarizing not for Cal's status as public, but because of the reasons you mentioned and the fact that it has been destination for strange people.

Who are those strange people? UC’s still end up having strong undergrad programs. It’s fine if you don’t like the culture or student life and decide something else is better for you.

At our good CA public high school about 30% of all students apply to Berkeley, and 3% get admitted (10-15), the numbers are similar for UCLA. That’s in line with the admission rate of about 10% for both Cal and UCLA. They are top students, the admission is very competitive.

HYPSM admission rate is about 5%, so they are more competitive, although some programs at Berkeley like MET (dual engineering and business degree) have admission rates below 3%. For comparison UVA admission rate is 17%.

The truth is plenty of students want to go to Berkeley in and out of state.

This looks about right for good CA public schools. It also holds for most good privates as well with acceptances in line with the overall average for UCLA and UCB.

In my experience there is a difference between public and private in terms of who attends UCB. At most of the top bay area privates the very top students do not covet (or attend UCB or UCLA). They mostly target top privates as their first choice. My top 5% kid did this as well with no interest in attending UCB based on her experience living in the bay area and knowing who went from her school. The school CCs actually ask the very top kids not to apply to UCLA and UCB unless they are actually interested in attending because the acceptance rates never vary by more than a kid or two. The UCs seem to be much more attractive to top public school kids.

[Anonymous]

Reposting bc my blurb ended up in the middle of a quote.
This rings true for my son’s top Bay Area private. Most of the wealthy kids go to private universities. We could pay for private no problem. My son didn’t want to go out of state. He didn’t have the chops for my alma mater, Stanford, or for Cal, UCLA, Pomona or CMC. I wasn’t going to pay good money for Pitzer or Occidental. So he ended up Davis. He loves it there! The kids are just as smart as those at Cal but the learning is much more collaborative and there’s no gatekeeping with the clubs. I love that I’m spending less to educate, house and feed him than I did just to educate him at his SF private.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Berkeley definitely has a wow factor but HYP have a bit more wow factor.

“Wow” is not what comes to mind when I hear of a top student attending Berkeley oos.

“How” is the word that comes to mind. “How” could this process have been approached differently to get a better outcome?

lol, are you for real? Poor Berkeley students attending some of best programs in the country when they could have gone straight to UVA.

Mind boggling how complete ignoramuses imagine themselves seers of wisdom!

You are cherry picking rankings to make Berkeley look better than it is.

No question the undergrad experience at UVA is better than Berkeley.

State flagships tend to have an inflated reputation in their home state. Are you living in California? The rest of the country barely thinks about Berkeley at all. You are out of touch with reality.

Just so you know, opinions about Berkeley in California are probably as polarizing, if not more so, than OOS. We are more familiar with many issues related to housing, class availability and toxic competition. It isn’t romanticized. I know 2 kids from my son’s class who got accepted to Berkeley and then got off the waitlist for UCLA and will go there instead. It is a great fit for some but not others.

Polarizing not for Cal's status as public, but because of the reasons you mentioned and the fact that it has been destination for strange people.

Who are those strange people? UC’s still end up having strong undergrad programs. It’s fine if you don’t like the culture or student life and decide something else is better for you.

At our good CA public high school about 30% of all students apply to Berkeley, and 3% get admitted (10-15), the numbers are similar for UCLA. That’s in line with the admission rate of about 10% for both Cal and UCLA. They are top students, the admission is very competitive.

HYPSM admission rate is about 5%, so they are more competitive, although some programs at Berkeley like MET (dual engineering and business degree) have admission rates below 3%. For comparison UVA admission rate is 17%.

The truth is plenty of students want to go to Berkeley in and out of state.

This looks about right for good CA public schools. It also holds for most good privates as well with acceptances in line with the overall average for UCLA and UCB.

In my experience there is a difference between public and private in terms of who attends UCB. At most of the top bay area privates the very top students do not covet (or attend UCB or UCLA). They mostly target top privates as their first choice. My top 5% kid did this as well with no interest in attending UCB based on her experience living in the bay area and knowing who went from her school. The school CCs actually ask the very top kids not to apply to UCLA and UCB unless they are actually interested in attending because the acceptance rates never vary by more than a kid or two. The UCs seem to be much more attractive to top public school kids.

That makes a lot of sense. If you pay $50k a year in tuition at a private high school you’re not going to blink at $60k tuition at Stanford, if you’re competitive enough to be admitted. But all these schools are more or less lottery tickets, and it’s conceivable that most applicants, top 5% included, will not get in HYPSM. The admission strategy may or may not include Berkeley, but a decent number go there. For College Preparatory, an “elite” private high school in the Bay Area, Berkeley is the third most attended university after Chicago and Swarthmore. The attended universities list skews private, but again we’re talking people that are not concerned with cost. Either way Berkeley is there in the mix with Ivies, LACs, etc. I don’t know a single person that would look down at Cal as not worthy enough.

Not sure I understand the comment about knowing who went to Berkeley from her high school. Is it that she doesn’t want to mix with the poor, the nerdy, or the strivers? Seems kind of shallow to me.

I give credit to UC admissions, they do identify the top students, that can be clearly seen in my kids schools SCOIR data. Quite a few kids do go to UCB from her school every year but the very top students for the most part (some exceptions of course) do not consider UCB as a top choice. It's not looking down on UCB, it's the environment (which has been well covered) along with the crazy admissions process for the top UCs. There is also a very clear racial dimension in who chooses UCB among the top students at our school.

I'm not sure why you would insinuate that my child is shallow because she wasn't interested in UCB? Seems pretty shallow to me, especially since you know nothing about her except that she was in the top 5% of her class at a top Bay area private.

I’m saying you and your kid are shallow for discarding Berkeley because of “knowing who went from her school”. Your words, not mine, but please elaborate what you mean by that. Is it the “clear racial dimension in who chooses UCB”? You’re not helping your cause, it’s probably better for everyone she’s not interested in Berkeley.

Your logic is quite faulty, if “quite a few students go to Berkeley every year,” then that’s a good compromise between where they want to go and where they can get in. I doubt you have the insight to tell if they are top students or not, unless you have unrestricted access to their application. More likely you base your evaluation on what your daughter tells you, which I hope you realize it’s not a very reliable way to tell top students apart.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Reposting bc my blurb ended up in the middle of a quote.
This rings true for my son’s top Bay Area private. Most of the wealthy kids go to private universities. We could pay for private no problem. My son didn’t want to go out of state. He didn’t have the chops for my alma mater, Stanford, or for Cal, UCLA, Pomona or CMC. I wasn’t going to pay good money for Pitzer or Occidental. So he ended up Davis. He loves it there! The kids are just as smart as those at Cal but the learning is much more collaborative and there’s no gatekeeping with the clubs. I love that I’m spending less to educate, house and feed him than I did just to educate him at his SF private.

In other news the water is wet. There’s only two public schools in Top 20, UCB and UCLA. If you’re sensitive to affordability, and most public school students are, then you’re going to prefer them disproportionately compared to private school students which skew wealthier.

That doesn’t mean private students are not interested, just that they have more financial resources and options. They’ll still go to UCB and UCLA if they can’t get into a better program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Reposting bc my blurb ended up in the middle of a quote.
This rings true for my son’s top Bay Area private. Most of the wealthy kids go to private universities. We could pay for private no problem. My son didn’t want to go out of state. He didn’t have the chops for my alma mater, Stanford, or for Cal, UCLA, Pomona or CMC. I wasn’t going to pay good money for Pitzer or Occidental. So he ended up Davis. He loves it there! The kids are just as smart as those at Cal but the learning is much more collaborative and there’s no gatekeeping with the clubs. I love that I’m spending less to educate, house and feed him than I did just to educate him at his SF private.

In other news the water is wet. There’s only two public schools in Top 20, UCB and UCLA. If you’re sensitive to affordability, and most public school students are, then you’re going to prefer them disproportionately compared to private school students which skew wealthier.

That doesn’t mean private students are not interested, just that they have more financial resources and options. They’ll still go to UCB and UCLA if they can’t get into a better program.

Private schools tend to be more financially inclusive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Reposting bc my blurb ended up in the middle of a quote.
This rings true for my son’s top Bay Area private. Most of the wealthy kids go to private universities. We could pay for private no problem. My son didn’t want to go out of state. He didn’t have the chops for my alma mater, Stanford, or for Cal, UCLA, Pomona or CMC. I wasn’t going to pay good money for Pitzer or Occidental. So he ended up Davis. He loves it there! The kids are just as smart as those at Cal but the learning is much more collaborative and there’s no gatekeeping with the clubs. I love that I’m spending less to educate, house and feed him than I did just to educate him at his SF private.

In other news the water is wet. There’s only two public schools in Top 20, UCB and UCLA. If you’re sensitive to affordability, and most public school students are, then you’re going to prefer them disproportionately compared to private school students which skew wealthier.

That doesn’t mean private students are not interested, just that they have more financial resources and options. They’ll still go to UCB and UCLA if they can’t get into a better program.

The desperation of predominantly public school kids competing in an academic knife fight to escape poverty doesn’t sound attractive to everyone. Life doesn’t have to be so toxic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Reposting bc my blurb ended up in the middle of a quote.
This rings true for my son’s top Bay Area private. Most of the wealthy kids go to private universities. We could pay for private no problem. My son didn’t want to go out of state. He didn’t have the chops for my alma mater, Stanford, or for Cal, UCLA, Pomona or CMC. I wasn’t going to pay good money for Pitzer or Occidental. So he ended up Davis. He loves it there! The kids are just as smart as those at Cal but the learning is much more collaborative and there’s no gatekeeping with the clubs. I love that I’m spending less to educate, house and feed him than I did just to educate him at his SF private.

In other news the water is wet. There’s only two public schools in Top 20, UCB and UCLA. If you’re sensitive to affordability, and most public school students are, then you’re going to prefer them disproportionately compared to private school students which skew wealthier.

That doesn’t mean private students are not interested, just that they have more financial resources and options. They’ll still go to UCB and UCLA if they can’t get into a better program.

The desperation of predominantly public school kids competing in an academic knife fight to escape poverty doesn’t sound attractive to everyone. Life doesn’t have to be so toxic.

There’s many poor kids at the top private these days