Do you think our graduating seniors will have a normal college experience?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe American colleges will stop supporting all these athletic teams. It would be a welcome use of funds.

Maybe colleges will focus again on teaching and not research.

40 years ago many fewer students did research, or only in the last year of college. I think that will be the new course of action. Also MD students waste time on research and that too should be removed. Few doctors really engage in pure research today.

Still going to be tough going.

Totally agree. MDs should understand evidence based practice and how to utilize it in their patient care. They do not need to do primary research if it is not an interest, they will take up after graduation.
College cost are exorbitant. We do not need research done by undergrads. The vast majority of college students do not need internships. In fact, the vast majority of college students do not participate in research or internships. They can do all this once hired. It will be much more cost-effective.

NP. Am always skeptical of posters who say "vast majority" - more than once - without any evidence to back up their claim(s).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a college junior who has already experienced difficulty prior to this recent change with getting a summer internship. Had no problem last year. He has a research grant this summer that is somehow not impacted. and he is concerned about getting a job next summer.

So a junior in college gets research grants?!?! Glad to hear they are limiting this funding. When I was in college the post grads were working with senior researchers. No one who had not even finished undergrad was getting research grants.

This funding is going away because ALL funding is going away, you total moron. Also, the NSF REU program has been around for like 30 years so how old ARE you???

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Spouse works at a top private college with a large endowment. They are just waiting to see what the next fed budget looks like to start making cuts. Expect some of the following:

--Cancellation/"Pauses" of all Phd programs
-- Getting rid entirely of less popular departments that can be deemed non-essential to the mission. I think any ethnicity or women's studies likely on the chopping block, but also some humanities departments with low enrollment
--End of anything DEI
--End of merit aid
--End of any non-essential spending on student services

Again this is a well funded school, so expect the same or worse elsewhere.

My DC is in at a mid-sized private schools with a decent merit aid package that is for 4 years assuming DC keeps up the grades. Would those be in danger?

My guess is that, unless they are on the brink of bankruptcy, schools will not rescind merit awards for current students. In addition, because schools depend on partial-pay families middle income families (i.e., those who get merit), they will not want to scare off the next few years of applicants.

The real victims will be poor kids, who depend on full or almost full FA to attend. They will be SOL, I worry.

spend some time away from here and on r/academia or r/professors or r/askacademia or r/highereducation.
so many people inside universities commenting right now.

Lots of people commenting lots of things. . . .

But the fact is, most schools are tuition dependent; they use 'merit' awards as a differential pricing mechanism. Rescinding merit would result in fewer (partial) tuition-paying students and a loss of income. Most schools outside of the T20 won't be able to afford that. They need those families who are chasing merit.

Income-based financial aid, much of which goes to students from families with very limited ability to pay, will suffer.

I think most of the T75, maybe T100 can fill their class without merit, keeping in mind that many of those schools are nit need blind.

Not without accepting large numbers of far less competitive applicants.

The world has changed. They need to care only about finding candidates who can pay.
Its a whole new world.

No, the schools need to make sure they can cover their costs (plus, hopefully, add to their endowment / reserves) and continue to attract future students.

One strategy for doing that would be to admit only (or mostly) full-pay students. However, relaxing admission standards will undercut their brand value and undermine their future viability.

Continuing with a differential pricing model (i.e., giving merit aid to donut hole families who might otherwise choose cheaper schools and very strong students who might otherwise choose more highly ranked schools) seems more strategic in my opinion. But again, we lack data. . . .

Not really. Only in the last 15-20 years have colleges become so hyper competitive. In the 80s and 90s these same colleges had laxer academic requirements and they did quite well. I think they will be ok if they focus on financial preservation instead of attracting best & brightest.

Same. And there might be less protests, more collegiality and frankly more social and fun environments.

Let's look for the upside.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Spouse works at a top private college with a large endowment. They are just waiting to see what the next fed budget looks like to start making cuts. Expect some of the following:

--Cancellation/"Pauses" of all Phd programs
-- Getting rid entirely of less popular departments that can be deemed non-essential to the mission. I think any ethnicity or women's studies likely on the chopping block, but also some humanities departments with low enrollment
--End of anything DEI
--End of merit aid
--End of any non-essential spending on student services

Again this is a well funded school, so expect the same or worse elsewhere.

My DC is in at a mid-sized private schools with a decent merit aid package that is for 4 years assuming DC keeps up the grades. Would those be in danger?

My guess is that, unless they are on the brink of bankruptcy, schools will not rescind merit awards for current students. In addition, because schools depend on partial-pay families middle income families (i.e., those who get merit), they will not want to scare off the next few years of applicants.

The real victims will be poor kids, who depend on full or almost full FA to attend. They will be SOL, I worry.

spend some time away from here and on r/academia or r/professors or r/askacademia or r/highereducation.
so many people inside universities commenting right now.

Lots of people commenting lots of things. . . .

But the fact is, most schools are tuition dependent; they use 'merit' awards as a differential pricing mechanism. Rescinding merit would result in fewer (partial) tuition-paying students and a loss of income. Most schools outside of the T20 won't be able to afford that. They need those families who are chasing merit.

Income-based financial aid, much of which goes to students from families with very limited ability to pay, will suffer.

I think most of the T75, maybe T100 can fill their class without merit, keeping in mind that many of those schools are nit need blind.

Not without accepting large numbers of far less competitive applicants.

Which schools do you think are giving lots of merit? We aren’t talking about financial aid, but merit. I think you need to go outside T100 to fin schools that are giving everyone a discounted price.

No, that is incorrect. My kids got merit offers from every school that accepted them, and none were out of the top 100. Also there are many excellent colleges out of the top 100. Ranking colleges is silly.

same, so many "merit" discounts and we are full pay, at many schools! most of my D's private girls school senior class has gotten merit discounts at OOS publics and privates in the top 75. These are not top kids they are just above average, 1300-1400, 4.1 "weighted" which is not top 20%. I am not talking about the real, rare merit that schools like Vandy and Wake and UNC who give full or almost full rides to less than 5% of the admitted class. I mean schools like SMU, Fordham, and dozens of out of state publics that do it to lure Virginia kids. These girls all got defer/WL or rejected from UVA and VT and yet are getting "merit" elsewhere. All are full pay quite rich families. That is not real merit, it is discounts to lure full pay families and it will start happening even more as these non-elite schools struggle more than the elite ones. Every one of these girls would go to UVA in state or a similarly ranked school if they could get in, including mine who is still hopeful for a WL miracle.

What's wrong with using merit to lure VA kids to other schools? Mine has stats above those you are belittling. The merit makes the idea of experiencing a new area more enticing, even with in-state admissions offers in your pile.

With Trump’s proposed cuts, universities will be losing tens to hundreds of millions per year. They won’t be able to afford merit, and it isn’t a necessity,

You either don't understand what "merit aid" is or don't understand how markets work. "Merit aid" isn't a gift or a prize that the college can just decide not to grant with no adverse consequences, it's a targeted price cut designed to maximize revenue, consistent with the school's other constraints (primarily, the size of the class and its academic profile). For schools that are doing it right/well today, cutting merit aid (without loosening other constraints) would lead to a loss of revenue, as losses from the incremental kids declining their offers would outweigh the incremental gains from kids paying higher prices. If a college wants to cut merit aid while maintaining (or increasing) class size, it needs to loosen its acceptance standards and make more offers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm really nervous for my student starting college next year. He wants to get his PhD in math so research is really important for him during his undergraduate years. I worry about funding for research.

You should be, all research money will be cut.

If there isn't research in undergrad, it won't be necessary for grad school. There was a time when undergrads weren't doing research at the level it's done now. Grad programs aren't going to require the students to have something that wasn't available.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At least trump will be gone by the time they graduate college.

But not Vance.

I used to think he was just a catty whiner but then I saw his speech about universities - he wants to destroy education and the educated.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0FR65Cifnhw

HE IS A PROBLEM. He must go.

Agreed. Vance has a chip on his shoulder due to this upbringing and experience at Yale, where he felt like an outsider. He hung with a band of misfit kids and has never forgotten it and can't wait to stick it to all the "intellectual elites" who didn't accept him. I've rarely seen an elected politician who has as much money as he has (through Silicon Valley finance work, selling netflix rights to his wildly exaggerated book) be this bitter. He has a lot of hate in his heart. And he's taking it out on everyone else.

What misfits graduate from Yale law school?

Um, you clearly don’t know anyone who went there

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Spouse works at a top private college with a large endowment. They are just waiting to see what the next fed budget looks like to start making cuts. Expect some of the following:

--Cancellation/"Pauses" of all Phd programs
-- Getting rid entirely of less popular departments that can be deemed non-essential to the mission. I think any ethnicity or women's studies likely on the chopping block, but also some humanities departments with low enrollment
--End of anything DEI
--End of merit aid
--End of any non-essential spending on student services

Again this is a well funded school, so expect the same or worse elsewhere.

My DC is in at a mid-sized private schools with a decent merit aid package that is for 4 years assuming DC keeps up the grades. Would those be in danger?

My guess is that, unless they are on the brink of bankruptcy, schools will not rescind merit awards for current students. In addition, because schools depend on partial-pay families middle income families (i.e., those who get merit), they will not want to scare off the next few years of applicants.

The real victims will be poor kids, who depend on full or almost full FA to attend. They will be SOL, I worry.

spend some time away from here and on r/academia or r/professors or r/askacademia or r/highereducation.
so many people inside universities commenting right now.

Lots of people commenting lots of things. . . .

But the fact is, most schools are tuition dependent; they use 'merit' awards as a differential pricing mechanism. Rescinding merit would result in fewer (partial) tuition-paying students and a loss of income. Most schools outside of the T20 won't be able to afford that. They need those families who are chasing merit.

Income-based financial aid, much of which goes to students from families with very limited ability to pay, will suffer.

I think most of the T75, maybe T100 can fill their class without merit, keeping in mind that many of those schools are nit need blind.

Not without accepting large numbers of far less competitive applicants.

Which schools do you think are giving lots of merit? We aren’t talking about financial aid, but merit. I think you need to go outside T100 to fin schools that are giving everyone a discounted price.

No, that is incorrect. My kids got merit offers from every school that accepted them, and none were out of the top 100. Also there are many excellent colleges out of the top 100. Ranking colleges is silly.

same, so many "merit" discounts and we are full pay, at many schools! most of my D's private girls school senior class has gotten merit discounts at OOS publics and privates in the top 75. These are not top kids they are just above average, 1300-1400, 4.1 "weighted" which is not top 20%. I am not talking about the real, rare merit that schools like Vandy and Wake and UNC who give full or almost full rides to less than 5% of the admitted class. I mean schools like SMU, Fordham, and dozens of out of state publics that do it to lure Virginia kids. These girls all got defer/WL or rejected from UVA and VT and yet are getting "merit" elsewhere. All are full pay quite rich families. That is not real merit, it is discounts to lure full pay families and it will start happening even more as these non-elite schools struggle more than the elite ones. Every one of these girls would go to UVA in state or a similarly ranked school if they could get in, including mine who is still hopeful for a WL miracle.

What's wrong with using merit to lure VA kids to other schools? Mine has stats above those you are belittling. The merit makes the idea of experiencing a new area more enticing, even with in-state admissions offers in your pile.

With Trump’s proposed cuts, universities will be losing tens to hundreds of millions per year. They won’t be able to afford merit, and it isn’t a necessity,

You either don't understand what "merit aid" is or don't understand how markets work. "Merit aid" isn't a gift or a prize that the college can just decide not to grant with no adverse consequences, it's a targeted price cut designed to maximize revenue, consistent with the school's other constraints (primarily, the size of the class and its academic profile). For schools that are doing it right/well today, cutting merit aid (without loosening other constraints) would lead to a loss of revenue, as losses from the incremental kids declining their offers would outweigh the incremental gains from kids paying higher prices. If a college wants to cut merit aid while maintaining (or increasing) class size, it needs to loosen its acceptance standards and make more offers.

Or it can stop trying to recruit middle class kids from Indiana and take some more rich kids from NYC. Your assumption that current admissions are a meritocracy is kind of funny.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At least trump will be gone by the time they graduate college.

But not Vance.

I used to think he was just a catty whiner but then I saw his speech about universities - he wants to destroy education and the educated.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0FR65Cifnhw

HE IS A PROBLEM. He must go.

Agreed. Vance has a chip on his shoulder due to this upbringing and experience at Yale, where he felt like an outsider. He hung with a band of misfit kids and has never forgotten it and can't wait to stick it to all the "intellectual elites" who didn't accept him. I've rarely seen an elected politician who has as much money as he has (through Silicon Valley finance work, selling netflix rights to his wildly exaggerated book) be this bitter. He has a lot of hate in his heart. And he's taking it out on everyone else.

What misfits graduate from Yale law school?

Um, you clearly don’t know anyone who went there

Very true.

[Anonymous]

First generation immigrant and business owner here. I told my junior to stay close to home (within 3-4 hours drive) and get FA and merits as much as possible. Forget about US news rankings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm really nervous for my student starting college next year. He wants to get his PhD in math so research is really important for him during his undergraduate years. I worry about funding for research.

You should be, all research money will be cut.

If there isn't research in undergrad, it won't be necessary for grad school. There was a time when undergrads weren't doing research at the level it's done now. Grad programs aren't going to require the students to have something that wasn't available.

What don’t you get about PhD programs being on the block, there likely won’t be graduate programs outside of professional schools. If the proposed cuts go through, it will be a lot more than 5 schools “pausing” their PhD programs. And let’s look at who has done it so far, Penn, Vandy, USC, Pitt and UNC. Hardly lightweights.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Spouse works at a top private college with a large endowment. They are just waiting to see what the next fed budget looks like to start making cuts. Expect some of the following:

--Cancellation/"Pauses" of all Phd programs
-- Getting rid entirely of less popular departments that can be deemed non-essential to the mission. I think any ethnicity or women's studies likely on the chopping block, but also some humanities departments with low enrollment
--End of anything DEI
--End of merit aid
--End of any non-essential spending on student services

Again this is a well funded school, so expect the same or worse elsewhere.

My DC is in at a mid-sized private schools with a decent merit aid package that is for 4 years assuming DC keeps up the grades. Would those be in danger?

My guess is that, unless they are on the brink of bankruptcy, schools will not rescind merit awards for current students. In addition, because schools depend on partial-pay families middle income families (i.e., those who get merit), they will not want to scare off the next few years of applicants.

The real victims will be poor kids, who depend on full or almost full FA to attend. They will be SOL, I worry.

spend some time away from here and on r/academia or r/professors or r/askacademia or r/highereducation.
so many people inside universities commenting right now.

Lots of people commenting lots of things. . . .

But the fact is, most schools are tuition dependent; they use 'merit' awards as a differential pricing mechanism. Rescinding merit would result in fewer (partial) tuition-paying students and a loss of income. Most schools outside of the T20 won't be able to afford that. They need those families who are chasing merit.

Income-based financial aid, much of which goes to students from families with very limited ability to pay, will suffer.

I think most of the T75, maybe T100 can fill their class without merit, keeping in mind that many of those schools are nit need blind.

Not without accepting large numbers of far less competitive applicants.

Which schools do you think are giving lots of merit? We aren’t talking about financial aid, but merit. I think you need to go outside T100 to fin schools that are giving everyone a discounted price.

No, that is incorrect. My kids got merit offers from every school that accepted them, and none were out of the top 100. Also there are many excellent colleges out of the top 100. Ranking colleges is silly.

same, so many "merit" discounts and we are full pay, at many schools! most of my D's private girls school senior class has gotten merit discounts at OOS publics and privates in the top 75. These are not top kids they are just above average, 1300-1400, 4.1 "weighted" which is not top 20%. I am not talking about the real, rare merit that schools like Vandy and Wake and UNC who give full or almost full rides to less than 5% of the admitted class. I mean schools like SMU, Fordham, and dozens of out of state publics that do it to lure Virginia kids. These girls all got defer/WL or rejected from UVA and VT and yet are getting "merit" elsewhere. All are full pay quite rich families. That is not real merit, it is discounts to lure full pay families and it will start happening even more as these non-elite schools struggle more than the elite ones. Every one of these girls would go to UVA in state or a similarly ranked school if they could get in, including mine who is still hopeful for a WL miracle.

What's wrong with using merit to lure VA kids to other schools? Mine has stats above those you are belittling. The merit makes the idea of experiencing a new area more enticing, even with in-state admissions offers in your pile.

With Trump’s proposed cuts, universities will be losing tens to hundreds of millions per year. They won’t be able to afford merit, and it isn’t a necessity,

You either don't understand what "merit aid" is or don't understand how markets work. "Merit aid" isn't a gift or a prize that the college can just decide not to grant with no adverse consequences, it's a targeted price cut designed to maximize revenue, consistent with the school's other constraints (primarily, the size of the class and its academic profile). For schools that are doing it right/well today, cutting merit aid (without loosening other constraints) would lead to a loss of revenue, as losses from the incremental kids declining their offers would outweigh the incremental gains from kids paying higher prices. If a college wants to cut merit aid while maintaining (or increasing) class size, it needs to loosen its acceptance standards and make more offers.

Or it can stop trying to recruit middle class kids from Indiana and take some more rich kids from NYC. Your assumption that current admissions are a meritocracy is kind of funny.

lol
so true

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Spouse works at a top private college with a large endowment. They are just waiting to see what the next fed budget looks like to start making cuts. Expect some of the following:

--Cancellation/"Pauses" of all Phd programs
-- Getting rid entirely of less popular departments that can be deemed non-essential to the mission. I think any ethnicity or women's studies likely on the chopping block, but also some humanities departments with low enrollment
--End of anything DEI
--End of merit aid
--End of any non-essential spending on student services

Again this is a well funded school, so expect the same or worse elsewhere.

My DC is in at a mid-sized private schools with a decent merit aid package that is for 4 years assuming DC keeps up the grades. Would those be in danger?

My guess is that, unless they are on the brink of bankruptcy, schools will not rescind merit awards for current students. In addition, because schools depend on partial-pay families middle income families (i.e., those who get merit), they will not want to scare off the next few years of applicants.

The real victims will be poor kids, who depend on full or almost full FA to attend. They will be SOL, I worry.

spend some time away from here and on r/academia or r/professors or r/askacademia or r/highereducation.
so many people inside universities commenting right now.

Lots of people commenting lots of things. . . .

But the fact is, most schools are tuition dependent; they use 'merit' awards as a differential pricing mechanism. Rescinding merit would result in fewer (partial) tuition-paying students and a loss of income. Most schools outside of the T20 won't be able to afford that. They need those families who are chasing merit.

Income-based financial aid, much of which goes to students from families with very limited ability to pay, will suffer.

I think most of the T75, maybe T100 can fill their class without merit, keeping in mind that many of those schools are nit need blind.

Not without accepting large numbers of far less competitive applicants.

Which schools do you think are giving lots of merit? We aren’t talking about financial aid, but merit. I think you need to go outside T100 to fin schools that are giving everyone a discounted price.

No, that is incorrect. My kids got merit offers from every school that accepted them, and none were out of the top 100. Also there are many excellent colleges out of the top 100. Ranking colleges is silly.

same, so many "merit" discounts and we are full pay, at many schools! most of my D's private girls school senior class has gotten merit discounts at OOS publics and privates in the top 75. These are not top kids they are just above average, 1300-1400, 4.1 "weighted" which is not top 20%. I am not talking about the real, rare merit that schools like Vandy and Wake and UNC who give full or almost full rides to less than 5% of the admitted class. I mean schools like SMU, Fordham, and dozens of out of state publics that do it to lure Virginia kids. These girls all got defer/WL or rejected from UVA and VT and yet are getting "merit" elsewhere. All are full pay quite rich families. That is not real merit, it is discounts to lure full pay families and it will start happening even more as these non-elite schools struggle more than the elite ones. Every one of these girls would go to UVA in state or a similarly ranked school if they could get in, including mine who is still hopeful for a WL miracle.

What's wrong with using merit to lure VA kids to other schools? Mine has stats above those you are belittling. The merit makes the idea of experiencing a new area more enticing, even with in-state admissions offers in your pile.

With Trump’s proposed cuts, universities will be losing tens to hundreds of millions per year. They won’t be able to afford merit, and it isn’t a necessity,

You either don't understand what "merit aid" is or don't understand how markets work. "Merit aid" isn't a gift or a prize that the college can just decide not to grant with no adverse consequences, it's a targeted price cut designed to maximize revenue, consistent with the school's other constraints (primarily, the size of the class and its academic profile). For schools that are doing it right/well today, cutting merit aid (without loosening other constraints) would lead to a loss of revenue, as losses from the incremental kids declining their offers would outweigh the incremental gains from kids paying higher prices. If a college wants to cut merit aid while maintaining (or increasing) class size, it needs to loosen its acceptance standards and make more offers.

Or it can stop trying to recruit middle class kids from Indiana and take some more rich kids from NYC. Your assumption that current admissions are a meritocracy is kind of funny.

You're talking about loosening a class-profile constraint. It's a very similar thing, except yours won't work--those rich kids from NYC already all land somewhere; you can't create more of them just because you need the money...unless you loosen your acceptance standards and make more offers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Spouse works at a top private college with a large endowment. They are just waiting to see what the next fed budget looks like to start making cuts. Expect some of the following:

--Cancellation/"Pauses" of all Phd programs
-- Getting rid entirely of less popular departments that can be deemed non-essential to the mission. I think any ethnicity or women's studies likely on the chopping block, but also some humanities departments with low enrollment
--End of anything DEI
--End of merit aid
--End of any non-essential spending on student services

Again this is a well funded school, so expect the same or worse elsewhere.

My DC is in at a mid-sized private schools with a decent merit aid package that is for 4 years assuming DC keeps up the grades. Would those be in danger?

My guess is that, unless they are on the brink of bankruptcy, schools will not rescind merit awards for current students. In addition, because schools depend on partial-pay families middle income families (i.e., those who get merit), they will not want to scare off the next few years of applicants.

The real victims will be poor kids, who depend on full or almost full FA to attend. They will be SOL, I worry.

spend some time away from here and on r/academia or r/professors or r/askacademia or r/highereducation.
so many people inside universities commenting right now.

Lots of people commenting lots of things. . . .

But the fact is, most schools are tuition dependent; they use 'merit' awards as a differential pricing mechanism. Rescinding merit would result in fewer (partial) tuition-paying students and a loss of income. Most schools outside of the T20 won't be able to afford that. They need those families who are chasing merit.

Income-based financial aid, much of which goes to students from families with very limited ability to pay, will suffer.

I think most of the T75, maybe T100 can fill their class without merit, keeping in mind that many of those schools are nit need blind.

Not without accepting large numbers of far less competitive applicants.

Which schools do you think are giving lots of merit? We aren’t talking about financial aid, but merit. I think you need to go outside T100 to fin schools that are giving everyone a discounted price.

No, that is incorrect. My kids got merit offers from every school that accepted them, and none were out of the top 100. Also there are many excellent colleges out of the top 100. Ranking colleges is silly.

same, so many "merit" discounts and we are full pay, at many schools! most of my D's private girls school senior class has gotten merit discounts at OOS publics and privates in the top 75. These are not top kids they are just above average, 1300-1400, 4.1 "weighted" which is not top 20%. I am not talking about the real, rare merit that schools like Vandy and Wake and UNC who give full or almost full rides to less than 5% of the admitted class. I mean schools like SMU, Fordham, and dozens of out of state publics that do it to lure Virginia kids. These girls all got defer/WL or rejected from UVA and VT and yet are getting "merit" elsewhere. All are full pay quite rich families. That is not real merit, it is discounts to lure full pay families and it will start happening even more as these non-elite schools struggle more than the elite ones. Every one of these girls would go to UVA in state or a similarly ranked school if they could get in, including mine who is still hopeful for a WL miracle.

Yeah, my full-pay kid is holding 5 offers from "T75/T50" schools, public (all OOS) and private. All offered merit, in amounts ranging from $15K to over $30K. Total direct costs (i.e., tuition, fees, room & board) would run between $20K and $52K. (I fear the RD round schools will be either dings or more expensive, but I guess we'll know soon.)

You dont seem to know what Full Pay means. Even getting merit aid is not full pay. My older kid got into two colleges she had no business getting into and school said nothing. The reward is she got into it. She went to a lesser school that gave merit. My friends Dad sent him to Georgetown Full pay. Got lucky for you they got in. No merit or no financial.

Those true full pay kids subsidize the FA and Merit aid kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Spouse works at a top private college with a large endowment. They are just waiting to see what the next fed budget looks like to start making cuts. Expect some of the following:

--Cancellation/"Pauses" of all Phd programs
-- Getting rid entirely of less popular departments that can be deemed non-essential to the mission. I think any ethnicity or women's studies likely on the chopping block, but also some humanities departments with low enrollment
--End of anything DEI
--End of merit aid
--End of any non-essential spending on student services

Again this is a well funded school, so expect the same or worse elsewhere.

My DC is in at a mid-sized private schools with a decent merit aid package that is for 4 years assuming DC keeps up the grades. Would those be in danger?

My guess is that, unless they are on the brink of bankruptcy, schools will not rescind merit awards for current students. In addition, because schools depend on partial-pay families middle income families (i.e., those who get merit), they will not want to scare off the next few years of applicants.

The real victims will be poor kids, who depend on full or almost full FA to attend. They will be SOL, I worry.

spend some time away from here and on r/academia or r/professors or r/askacademia or r/highereducation.
so many people inside universities commenting right now.

Lots of people commenting lots of things. . . .

But the fact is, most schools are tuition dependent; they use 'merit' awards as a differential pricing mechanism. Rescinding merit would result in fewer (partial) tuition-paying students and a loss of income. Most schools outside of the T20 won't be able to afford that. They need those families who are chasing merit.

Income-based financial aid, much of which goes to students from families with very limited ability to pay, will suffer.

I think most of the T75, maybe T100 can fill their class without merit, keeping in mind that many of those schools are nit need blind.

Not without accepting large numbers of far less competitive applicants.

Which schools do you think are giving lots of merit? We aren’t talking about financial aid, but merit. I think you need to go outside T100 to fin schools that are giving everyone a discounted price.

No, that is incorrect. My kids got merit offers from every school that accepted them, and none were out of the top 100. Also there are many excellent colleges out of the top 100. Ranking colleges is silly.

same, so many "merit" discounts and we are full pay, at many schools! most of my D's private girls school senior class has gotten merit discounts at OOS publics and privates in the top 75. These are not top kids they are just above average, 1300-1400, 4.1 "weighted" which is not top 20%. I am not talking about the real, rare merit that schools like Vandy and Wake and UNC who give full or almost full rides to less than 5% of the admitted class. I mean schools like SMU, Fordham, and dozens of out of state publics that do it to lure Virginia kids. These girls all got defer/WL or rejected from UVA and VT and yet are getting "merit" elsewhere. All are full pay quite rich families. That is not real merit, it is discounts to lure full pay families and it will start happening even more as these non-elite schools struggle more than the elite ones. Every one of these girls would go to UVA in state or a similarly ranked school if they could get in, including mine who is still hopeful for a WL miracle.

What's wrong with using merit to lure VA kids to other schools? Mine has stats above those you are belittling. The merit makes the idea of experiencing a new area more enticing, even with in-state admissions offers in your pile.

With Trump’s proposed cuts, universities will be losing tens to hundreds of millions per year. They won’t be able to afford merit, and it isn’t a necessity,

You either don't understand what "merit aid" is or don't understand how markets work. "Merit aid" isn't a gift or a prize that the college can just decide not to grant with no adverse consequences, it's a targeted price cut designed to maximize revenue, consistent with the school's other constraints (primarily, the size of the class and its academic profile). For schools that are doing it right/well today, cutting merit aid (without loosening other constraints) would lead to a loss of revenue, as losses from the incremental kids declining their offers would outweigh the incremental gains from kids paying higher prices. If a college wants to cut merit aid while maintaining (or increasing) class size, it needs to loosen its acceptance standards and make more offers.

Or it can stop trying to recruit middle class kids from Indiana and take some more rich kids from NYC. Your assumption that current admissions are a meritocracy is kind of funny.

You're talking about loosening a class-profile constraint. It's a very similar thing, except yours won't work--those rich kids from NYC already all land somewhere; you can't create more of them just because you need the money...unless you loosen your acceptance standards and make more offers.

So they will take slighter lower stats kids for a few years, it is going to be an issue of economic survival so that doesn’t seem that big a deal.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Spouse works at a top private college with a large endowment. They are just waiting to see what the next fed budget looks like to start making cuts. Expect some of the following:

--Cancellation/"Pauses" of all Phd programs
-- Getting rid entirely of less popular departments that can be deemed non-essential to the mission. I think any ethnicity or women's studies likely on the chopping block, but also some humanities departments with low enrollment
--End of anything DEI
--End of merit aid
--End of any non-essential spending on student services

Again this is a well funded school, so expect the same or worse elsewhere.

My DC is in at a mid-sized private schools with a decent merit aid package that is for 4 years assuming DC keeps up the grades. Would those be in danger?

My guess is that, unless they are on the brink of bankruptcy, schools will not rescind merit awards for current students. In addition, because schools depend on partial-pay families middle income families (i.e., those who get merit), they will not want to scare off the next few years of applicants.

The real victims will be poor kids, who depend on full or almost full FA to attend. They will be SOL, I worry.

spend some time away from here and on r/academia or r/professors or r/askacademia or r/highereducation.
so many people inside universities commenting right now.

Lots of people commenting lots of things. . . .

But the fact is, most schools are tuition dependent; they use 'merit' awards as a differential pricing mechanism. Rescinding merit would result in fewer (partial) tuition-paying students and a loss of income. Most schools outside of the T20 won't be able to afford that. They need those families who are chasing merit.

Income-based financial aid, much of which goes to students from families with very limited ability to pay, will suffer.

I think most of the T75, maybe T100 can fill their class without merit, keeping in mind that many of those schools are nit need blind.

Not without accepting large numbers of far less competitive applicants.

Which schools do you think are giving lots of merit? We aren’t talking about financial aid, but merit. I think you need to go outside T100 to fin schools that are giving everyone a discounted price.

No, that is incorrect. My kids got merit offers from every school that accepted them, and none were out of the top 100. Also there are many excellent colleges out of the top 100. Ranking colleges is silly.

same, so many "merit" discounts and we are full pay, at many schools! most of my D's private girls school senior class has gotten merit discounts at OOS publics and privates in the top 75. These are not top kids they are just above average, 1300-1400, 4.1 "weighted" which is not top 20%. I am not talking about the real, rare merit that schools like Vandy and Wake and UNC who give full or almost full rides to less than 5% of the admitted class. I mean schools like SMU, Fordham, and dozens of out of state publics that do it to lure Virginia kids. These girls all got defer/WL or rejected from UVA and VT and yet are getting "merit" elsewhere. All are full pay quite rich families. That is not real merit, it is discounts to lure full pay families and it will start happening even more as these non-elite schools struggle more than the elite ones. Every one of these girls would go to UVA in state or a similarly ranked school if they could get in, including mine who is still hopeful for a WL miracle.

Yeah, my full-pay kid is holding 5 offers from "T75/T50" schools, public (all OOS) and private. All offered merit, in amounts ranging from $15K to over $30K. Total direct costs (i.e., tuition, fees, room & board) would run between $20K and $52K. (I fear the RD round schools will be either dings or more expensive, but I guess we'll know soon.)

You dont seem to know what Full Pay means. Even getting merit aid is not full pay. My older kid got into two colleges she had no business getting into and school said nothing. The reward is she got into it. She went to a lesser school that gave merit. My friends Dad sent him to Georgetown Full pay. Got lucky for you they got in. No merit or no financial.

Those true full pay kids subsidize the FA and Merit aid kids.

You seem to have lost the focus of this discussion. We are talking about what schools are likely to cut as a result of the myriad cuts to university budgets proposed or already enacted by Trump. This is not a generic conversation about merit aid.