DC bike group says fewer now riding bikes to work than in 2012 (?!?!)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are scooter riders up? Because I never rode a bike around DC, but the last 3 years I've taken up scootering.

Hard to say. Scooters aren't really an option in any commuting survey. Eventually they will be, but aren't currently. Until then you have provider data and some small scale stuff.

Weird. Whenever I take one downtown for a doctor's appointment, there are tons of scooters in the bike lanes on 15th and L and surrounding areas with what look like commuters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are scooter riders up? Because I never rode a bike around DC, but the last 3 years I've taken up scootering.

Hard to say. Scooters aren't really an option in any commuting survey. Eventually they will be, but aren't currently. Until then you have provider data and some small scale stuff.

Weird. Whenever I take one downtown for a doctor's appointment, there are tons of scooters in the bike lanes on 15th and L and surrounding areas with what look like commuters.

Yes, lots of people use them in urban areas. But you can't fill out your ACS, or MWCOG survey and mark "scooter" as your primary commute mode. Right now, you have to put "other" and maybe you get a write-in. As more people use them, and more people want to know how many are out there, you'll slowly see surveys make an option for them. In the meantime you just have to use your eyes and memory to say "a heck of a lot more today, than back in 2016."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought the theory was that if we build it, they will come. The number of riders seems to be shrinking even as the number of lanes increases.

Still haven’t heard a good response to this.

I hear a bunch of nonsense stories that claim non-quantifiable non work trips are increasing or pointing to CaBi numbers as some sort of vindication. The problem for those people is that the actual data doesn’t support them.

DDOT has bike counters and they are pretty clear about what’s going on regardless of type of bike, purpose of trip or time of day.
https://ddot.dc.gov/page/dc-automated-bicycle-and-pedestrian-counters

People are using Maine Avenue and the Anacostia River Trail a lot. This is likely because the Wharf is not really Metro accessible and it’s probably easier to get out of a Nats game on a bike than by Metro or car. And also because people are enjoying some weekend recreation.

What people are not doing is biking around the rest of the city in any significant numbers. And we know the numbers around the city have to be even worse than you can imagine because they actually removed the counter from the vaunted 15th street cycle track and added more counters along Rock Creek to track more recreational users.

I’m not sure why this is an issue brings out so many liars, but it does.

DDOTs counters have serious flaws, the most obvious being they don't exist/work in places that are actually used like the MBT. This should be 101 level work from DDOT, but it is what it is.

They used to have a counter on the MBAT but removed it. Why do you think they would do that? Is DDOT trying to perpetuate a conspiracy to keep the real data from the public?

[Anonymous]

It's interesting the number of bike commuters was plummeting even before the pandemic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's interesting the number of bike commuters was plummeting even before the pandemic.

It's interesting that you are completely and totally obsessed with proving that things that never happened actually happened. Please desist with your nonsense. It is tiresome.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought the theory was that if we build it, they will come. The number of riders seems to be shrinking even as the number of lanes increases.

Still haven’t heard a good response to this.

I hear a bunch of nonsense stories that claim non-quantifiable non work trips are increasing or pointing to CaBi numbers as some sort of vindication. The problem for those people is that the actual data doesn’t support them.

DDOT has bike counters and they are pretty clear about what’s going on regardless of type of bike, purpose of trip or time of day.
https://ddot.dc.gov/page/dc-automated-bicycle-and-pedestrian-counters

People are using Maine Avenue and the Anacostia River Trail a lot. This is likely because the Wharf is not really Metro accessible and it’s probably easier to get out of a Nats game on a bike than by Metro or car. And also because people are enjoying some weekend recreation.

What people are not doing is biking around the rest of the city in any significant numbers. And we know the numbers around the city have to be even worse than you can imagine because they actually removed the counter from the vaunted 15th street cycle track and added more counters along Rock Creek to track more recreational users.

I’m not sure why this is an issue brings out so many liars, but it does.

DDOTs counters have serious flaws, the most obvious being they don't exist/work in places that are actually used like the MBT. This should be 101 level work from DDOT, but it is what it is.

They used to have a counter on the MBAT but removed it. Why do you think they would do that? Is DDOT trying to perpetuate a conspiracy to keep the real data from the public?

At this point I think there are elements in DDOT that are actively trying to downplay the success of non-car transportation. It's too big an oversight to just be usual bureaucratic incompetence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought the theory was that if we build it, they will come. The number of riders seems to be shrinking even as the number of lanes increases.

Still haven’t heard a good response to this.

I hear a bunch of nonsense stories that claim non-quantifiable non work trips are increasing or pointing to CaBi numbers as some sort of vindication. The problem for those people is that the actual data doesn’t support them.

DDOT has bike counters and they are pretty clear about what’s going on regardless of type of bike, purpose of trip or time of day.
https://ddot.dc.gov/page/dc-automated-bicycle-and-pedestrian-counters

People are using Maine Avenue and the Anacostia River Trail a lot. This is likely because the Wharf is not really Metro accessible and it’s probably easier to get out of a Nats game on a bike than by Metro or car. And also because people are enjoying some weekend recreation.

What people are not doing is biking around the rest of the city in any significant numbers. And we know the numbers around the city have to be even worse than you can imagine because they actually removed the counter from the vaunted 15th street cycle track and added more counters along Rock Creek to track more recreational users.

I’m not sure why this is an issue brings out so many liars, but it does.

DDOTs counters have serious flaws, the most obvious being they don't exist/work in places that are actually used like the MBT. This should be 101 level work from DDOT, but it is what it is.

They used to have a counter on the MBAT but removed it. Why do you think they would do that? Is DDOT trying to perpetuate a conspiracy to keep the real data from the public?

At this point I think there are elements in DDOT that are actively trying to downplay the success of non-car transportation. It's too big an oversight to just be usual bureaucratic incompetence.

Lol - the hidden for two years Connecticut Ave bike count indicates the exact opposite.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought the theory was that if we build it, they will come. The number of riders seems to be shrinking even as the number of lanes increases.

Still haven’t heard a good response to this.

I hear a bunch of nonsense stories that claim non-quantifiable non work trips are increasing or pointing to CaBi numbers as some sort of vindication. The problem for those people is that the actual data doesn’t support them.

DDOT has bike counters and they are pretty clear about what’s going on regardless of type of bike, purpose of trip or time of day.
https://ddot.dc.gov/page/dc-automated-bicycle-and-pedestrian-counters

People are using Maine Avenue and the Anacostia River Trail a lot. This is likely because the Wharf is not really Metro accessible and it’s probably easier to get out of a Nats game on a bike than by Metro or car. And also because people are enjoying some weekend recreation.

What people are not doing is biking around the rest of the city in any significant numbers. And we know the numbers around the city have to be even worse than you can imagine because they actually removed the counter from the vaunted 15th street cycle track and added more counters along Rock Creek to track more recreational users.

I’m not sure why this is an issue brings out so many liars, but it does.

DDOTs counters have serious flaws, the most obvious being they don't exist/work in places that are actually used like the MBT. This should be 101 level work from DDOT, but it is what it is.

They used to have a counter on the MBAT but removed it. Why do you think they would do that? Is DDOT trying to perpetuate a conspiracy to keep the real data from the public?

At this point I think there are elements in DDOT that are actively trying to downplay the success of non-car transportation. It's too big an oversight to just be usual bureaucratic incompetence.

Is this a joke? Literally the only people in Washington DC who want bike lanes are DDOT and a handful of Bernie Bros.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's interesting the number of bike commuters was plummeting even before the pandemic.

It's interesting that you are completely and totally obsessed with proving that things that never happened actually happened. Please desist with your nonsense. It is tiresome.

Number of bike commuters in Washington DC:

2012 -- 13,493
2013 -- 14,986
2014 -- 13,330
2015 -- 14,718
2016 -- 16,647
2017 -- 18,624
2018 -- 16,175
2019 -- 15,528
2020 -- 16,012
2021 -- 7,504
2022 -- 11,309
2023 -- 13,276

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean arguing for every form of traffic calming except bike lanes is not really in good faith. The NIMBYs will be out in full force equally when it’s just adding a median and dedicated bus lane and not bike lanes.

I think you are referring to my posts in which I advocate for other traffic calming measures in situations where speeding or pedestrian safety is an issue but a bike lane doesn't really make sense.

Your attitude is infuriating because I don't argue against bike lanes *when they make sense.* The issue is DDOT suggest bike lanes any time a road is a problem and this is one of the reasons there is so much opposition to bike lanes -- because they are often thrust upon neighborhoods where there is little demand for them and where they are rarely used (in part because so many DDOT lanes are just paint on a road or flexible bollards between the lane and traffic on what everyone agrees is already a dangerous road -- who wants to bike on a road like that other than true diehards?). DDOT eliminates traffic lanes as well as residential parking for these bike lanes people didn't ask for and then bike advocate freak out when residents protest them.

If you really want to increase interest in biking, you'd focus bike lanes in areas where there is already a large cycling community and where demand is there. And then on the city's many dangerous roads where drivers regularly speed and drive dangerously (and almost no one bikes), you'd advocate for traffic calming measures that will ACTUALLY slow down drivers and make the road safe for pedestrians. And then guess what? People will want to bike there. But throwing a bike lane on a busy road like SD Ave and doing nothing else to slow drivers will only make people say "why the heck is there a bike lane here that no one uses?" It does not actually accomplish your goals.

Or you could claim that anyone who ever opposes a bike lane is a NIMBY who will also oppose other measures because that makes it easier for you to keep trying to impose your will on other residents of the city instead of actually talking to people and listening to what they have to say (even when it's "I don't want a bike lane on this road").

They accomplish narrowing the street and slowing cars down. Any other questions?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's interesting the number of bike commuters was plummeting even before the pandemic.

It's interesting that you are completely and totally obsessed with proving that things that never happened actually happened. Please desist with your nonsense. It is tiresome.

Number of bike commuters in Washington DC:

2012 -- 13,493
2013 -- 14,986
2014 -- 13,330
2015 -- 14,718
2016 -- 16,647
2017 -- 18,624
2018 -- 16,175
2019 -- 15,528
2020 -- 16,012
2021 -- 7,504
2022 -- 11,309
2023 -- 13,276

Kinda bonkers how DC has spent untold billions on bike stuff over the years for such a small group of people

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean arguing for every form of traffic calming except bike lanes is not really in good faith. The NIMBYs will be out in full force equally when it’s just adding a median and dedicated bus lane and not bike lanes.

I think you are referring to my posts in which I advocate for other traffic calming measures in situations where speeding or pedestrian safety is an issue but a bike lane doesn't really make sense.

Your attitude is infuriating because I don't argue against bike lanes *when they make sense.* The issue is DDOT suggest bike lanes any time a road is a problem and this is one of the reasons there is so much opposition to bike lanes -- because they are often thrust upon neighborhoods where there is little demand for them and where they are rarely used (in part because so many DDOT lanes are just paint on a road or flexible bollards between the lane and traffic on what everyone agrees is already a dangerous road -- who wants to bike on a road like that other than true diehards?). DDOT eliminates traffic lanes as well as residential parking for these bike lanes people didn't ask for and then bike advocate freak out when residents protest them.

If you really want to increase interest in biking, you'd focus bike lanes in areas where there is already a large cycling community and where demand is there. And then on the city's many dangerous roads where drivers regularly speed and drive dangerously (and almost no one bikes), you'd advocate for traffic calming measures that will ACTUALLY slow down drivers and make the road safe for pedestrians. And then guess what? People will want to bike there. But throwing a bike lane on a busy road like SD Ave and doing nothing else to slow drivers will only make people say "why the heck is there a bike lane here that no one uses?" It does not actually accomplish your goals.

Or you could claim that anyone who ever opposes a bike lane is a NIMBY who will also oppose other measures because that makes it easier for you to keep trying to impose your will on other residents of the city instead of actually talking to people and listening to what they have to say (even when it's "I don't want a bike lane on this road").

I don't know who you are or where you live, but I'd vote for you as ANC commissioner in a hot second.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's interesting the number of bike commuters was plummeting even before the pandemic.

It's interesting that you are completely and totally obsessed with proving that things that never happened actually happened. Please desist with your nonsense. It is tiresome.

Number of bike commuters in Washington DC:

2012 -- 13,493
2013 -- 14,986
2014 -- 13,330
2015 -- 14,718
2016 -- 16,647
2017 -- 18,624
2018 -- 16,175
2019 -- 15,528
2020 -- 16,012
2021 -- 7,504
2022 -- 11,309
2023 -- 13,276

Kinda bonkers how DC has spent untold billions on bike stuff over the years for such a small group of people

“untold billions” lol

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean arguing for every form of traffic calming except bike lanes is not really in good faith. The NIMBYs will be out in full force equally when it’s just adding a median and dedicated bus lane and not bike lanes.

I think you are referring to my posts in which I advocate for other traffic calming measures in situations where speeding or pedestrian safety is an issue but a bike lane doesn't really make sense.

Your attitude is infuriating because I don't argue against bike lanes *when they make sense.* The issue is DDOT suggest bike lanes any time a road is a problem and this is one of the reasons there is so much opposition to bike lanes -- because they are often thrust upon neighborhoods where there is little demand for them and where they are rarely used (in part because so many DDOT lanes are just paint on a road or flexible bollards between the lane and traffic on what everyone agrees is already a dangerous road -- who wants to bike on a road like that other than true diehards?). DDOT eliminates traffic lanes as well as residential parking for these bike lanes people didn't ask for and then bike advocate freak out when residents protest them.

If you really want to increase interest in biking, you'd focus bike lanes in areas where there is already a large cycling community and where demand is there. And then on the city's many dangerous roads where drivers regularly speed and drive dangerously (and almost no one bikes), you'd advocate for traffic calming measures that will ACTUALLY slow down drivers and make the road safe for pedestrians. And then guess what? People will want to bike there. But throwing a bike lane on a busy road like SD Ave and doing nothing else to slow drivers will only make people say "why the heck is there a bike lane here that no one uses?" It does not actually accomplish your goals.

Or you could claim that anyone who ever opposes a bike lane is a NIMBY who will also oppose other measures because that makes it easier for you to keep trying to impose your will on other residents of the city instead of actually talking to people and listening to what they have to say (even when it's "I don't want a bike lane on this road").

I don't know who you are or where you live, but I'd vote for you as ANC commissioner in a hot second.

^^naive. at some point you need to listen to the professionals and not the “neighbors” because the “neighbors” who who show up to ANC meetings will ALWAYS claim that changing anything at all = kitten murder. If we listened to the “neighbors” we would have no metro, no parks, no sidewalks, no schools …

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's interesting the number of bike commuters was plummeting even before the pandemic.

It's interesting that you are completely and totally obsessed with proving that things that never happened actually happened. Please desist with your nonsense. It is tiresome.

Number of bike commuters in Washington DC:

2012 -- 13,493
2013 -- 14,986
2014 -- 13,330
2015 -- 14,718
2016 -- 16,647
2017 -- 18,624
2018 -- 16,175
2019 -- 15,528
2020 -- 16,012
2021 -- 7,504
2022 -- 11,309
2023 -- 13,276

Kinda bonkers how DC has spent untold billions on bike stuff over the years for such a small group of people

The only thing here that is bonkers is you.