What typically happens to a violent kid in the classroom?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What has changed is that NOTHING happens to the violent kid.

When I started teaching 25 years ago, kids who tried to violently lash out and/or destroy a classroom were restrained and prevented from doing so. Then they were often suspended so their parents were motivated to deal with the issue. They weren't kept in a classroom for YEARS doing the same thing over and over again.

It is incomprehensible that we are allowing students whether they are 5 or 7 or 12 or 15 year the power to control the classroom, assault other students and staff, and if they please to destroy rooms and cause the entire class to evacuate the classroom. That is an insane level of power to give a kid. Many of these kids are pretty clever and realize there are no consequences. Everything is now based on positives.

The toll this is taking on both general ed. teachers and special education teachers is catastrophic. As more and more special ed teachers quit, there are fewer places to send violent students so they are in general ed. classes. General ed. teachers are getting burned out because they have to do too much and are tired of one or two really disruptive kids making teaching insufferable . Districts have realized they can save money by trying to include most students. Many of these students need a smaller teacher to staff ratio and those classes are disappearing.

There really aren't many jobs were you are expected to be hit, kicked, bit, spit on, and sworn at on a weekly or daily basis and then blamed for not doing enough. A 6 year old shoots a teacher and the school district response is - well that's to be expected, that's one of the dangers of teaching.

Then your workplace gets destroyed by one child as well and you aren't reimbursed for all the items you purchased with your own money and all the time you spent making the classroom a pleasing place.

Now add to that the trauma other students are witnessing on a DAILY basis. Imagine going to work with a co-worker who throws things at you when you are trying to work, will rip up the paper you just completed, who might attack you, yell profanities at you, cause you to have to evacuate your office two to three times a week. It is so sad to hear how happy kids are when the massive behavior problem kid isn't there. They sense their teacher is ecstatic as well.

If you are a parent who has a kid in this situation, sorry it most likely isn't going to get better. After my kid got hit in the head with a rock, had to evacuate his class once a week, and saw how stressed his teacher was I decided to move him mid-year to a private school. There were just way too many problem kids in his cohort that were sucking the life out of his classes.

This doesn’t happen in the good public schools. You could have sent your child to one of those.

Oh, it’s happening in the “good” publics too. Do you have kids currently attending area publics? I bet your kids graduated years ago.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"There doesn't seem to be any action"

How in the world would you know what action has or hasn't been taken?

My kid was that kid. BEGGED AND PLEADED for him to be removed to a special school. It never happened. By all means, bug the administration, I'm sure his parents don't want him to hurt other kids either.

My heart goes out to you. My dear friend has a son who has acted out physically since K. He is now almost done with HS. She begged and pleaded for help from anyone and everyone. Eventually after many years, he was offered private placement. Unfortunately, she called everywhere but nobody would take him due to the threat of violence. Thankfully he seems to be doing better now. There have been no physical tantrums, threats or assaults this year but she is always waiting for the next crisis. It’s been such a long, frustrating and lonely road for her. People judge her which is so unfair.

[Anonymous]

I currently have a SpEd parent demanding to have the their own school bus pick and drop off because the kid doesn’t like to cross the street. Silly stuff now.

[Anonymous]

I am a K Teacher and have 6 students with various stages of aggressiveness, emotional and physical outbursts and physical violence. I have been hit 3 times this week and things have been thrown at me. There are no consequences for the child and the parents do not seem to care. We have a CAP meeting on this child after Thanksgiving to begin formal documentation. I already have 23 pages of ABC documentation on his behaviors with a focus on his antecedent behaviors. It is a tough job but I do love teaching and want to believe I am making a difference. I rather take the hits from this h ch idk rather than him hitting another child.

[Anonymous]

I still don't understand why teacher unions and advocacy groups aren't vociferously drawing a red line protecting their teachers. We were lied to so many times by teachers about bullying and crazy violent kids in the classroom. Perhaps it's because admin forced them to but when multiple kids tell their parents, and parents compare notes, teachers looking parents in the eye and blatantly lying about child welfare is still unacceptable and unprofessional.

[Anonymous]

^ I don’t know why the teachers unions aren’t protesting and refusing to work either. They stopped work during Covid which was much less of a risk for them than violence in the schools (especially in some areas). And the public would actually be on their side with this, because the vast majority of us don’t want these violent kids in our schools either. At very least those kids should be put in a room all day together and kept away from the other kids. I don’t believe that any law prevents that (it’s “appropriate” to keep them apart from other kids if they’re violent) but if so then laws can be changed.

[Anonymous]

They used to get suspended. Some would go to special ed classes.

We know longer to this anymore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^ I don’t know why the teachers unions aren’t protesting and refusing to work either. They stopped work during Covid which was much less of a risk for them than violence in the schools (especially in some areas). And the public would actually be on their side with this, because the vast majority of us don’t want these violent kids in our schools either. At very least those kids should be put in a room all day together and kept away from the other kids. I don’t believe that any law prevents that (it’s “appropriate” to keep them apart from other kids if they’re violent) but if so then laws can be changed.

Many people would not be on the teacher’s side. They’d say we are bad at our jobs Or that we knew what we signed up for.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^ I don’t know why the teachers unions aren’t protesting and refusing to work either. They stopped work during Covid which was much less of a risk for them than violence in the schools (especially in some areas). And the public would actually be on their side with this, because the vast majority of us don’t want these violent kids in our schools either. At very least those kids should be put in a room all day together and kept away from the other kids. I don’t believe that any law prevents that (it’s “appropriate” to keep them apart from other kids if they’re violent) but if so then laws can be changed.

Many teachers in certain states aren't in unions. In Virginia teachers are forbidden from collective bargaining and they don't have the right to strike. The district where the teacher was shot by the six year old (who said I shot that b**ch dead, after the shooting) is arguing that getting shot on the job is just part of the risk of being a teacher.

It is really exhausting when who have a kid who is so out of control that it really burns out multiple people at a school. To know you have to go to work and watch a kid do whatever they want and there are no consequences is so disheartening. Kid decided to walk around school, enter classrooms that aren't his, walk into office, threaten to go walk off campus. Goes to recess decides he wants to keep playing. Throws things in class and bites, hits, kicks teachers, staff and other students, cusses at whoever he wants. The emphasis is only on what positive rewards he can earn and waiting him out. The problem is that when you have a kid who is reasonably clever they realize there is absolutely nothing that the school can do to restrain or punish the child in anyway so that they are motivated not to engage in that behavior. Then you have parents who can't or won't discipline their child so the child never learns they have to wait, have to have boundaries, needs to think about others, etc.

If you had someone go into a store and start flinging things off shelves you wouldn't wait out the person until they calms down, the police are called and the person is arrested. If a patient is hostile in a doctor's office and cusses out the office staff, the doctor can chose not to continue having the person as a patient. If you went to work and a co-worker stabbed you with a pencil they wouldn't be employed. At an ER if someone is assaulting staff members they are physically or medically restrained. Schools are now pretty much forbidden from restraining students or having seclusion rooms where students were taken who were out of control until they calmed down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ I don’t know why the teachers unions aren’t protesting and refusing to work either. They stopped work during Covid which was much less of a risk for them than violence in the schools (especially in some areas). And the public would actually be on their side with this, because the vast majority of us don’t want these violent kids in our schools either. At very least those kids should be put in a room all day together and kept away from the other kids. I don’t believe that any law prevents that (it’s “appropriate” to keep them apart from other kids if they’re violent) but if so then laws can be changed.

Many teachers in certain states aren't in unions. In Virginia teachers are forbidden from collective bargaining and they don't have the right to strike. The district where the teacher was shot by the six year old (who said I shot that b**ch dead, after the shooting) is arguing that getting shot on the job is just part of the risk of being a teacher.

It is really exhausting when who have a kid who is so out of control that it really burns out multiple people at a school. To know you have to go to work and watch a kid do whatever they want and there are no consequences is so disheartening. Kid decided to walk around school, enter classrooms that aren't his, walk into office, threaten to go walk off campus. Goes to recess decides he wants to keep playing. Throws things in class and bites, hits, kicks teachers, staff and other students, cusses at whoever he wants. The emphasis is only on what positive rewards he can earn and waiting him out. The problem is that when you have a kid who is reasonably clever they realize there is absolutely nothing that the school can do to restrain or punish the child in anyway so that they are motivated not to engage in that behavior. Then you have parents who can't or won't discipline their child so the child never learns they have to wait, have to have boundaries, needs to think about others, etc.

If you had someone go into a store and start flinging things off shelves you wouldn't wait out the person until they calms down, the police are called and the person is arrested. If a patient is hostile in a doctor's office and cusses out the office staff, the doctor can chose not to continue having the person as a patient. If you went to work and a co-worker stabbed you with a pencil they wouldn't be employed. At an ER if someone is assaulting staff members they are physically or medically restrained. Schools are now pretty much forbidden from restraining students or having seclusion rooms where students were taken who were out of control until they calmed down.

I was going to write out a similar response but this is 100% accurate. Even in states with strong unions, there is 50 years of federal law about educating students with disabilities and 25 years of pushing to keep those students mainstreamed in almost all circumstances. A good union might help a teacher get workers compensation after being attacked or but it's not going to fight to get the kid removed from the classroom.

[Anonymous]

Anyone remember the teacher in FL who got kicked to a pulp in the school hallway by a deranged SN kid?

The police chief said she was lucky to have survived.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Anyone remember the teacher in FL who got kicked to a pulp in the school hallway by a deranged SN kid?

The police chief said she was lucky to have survived.

It was Bradon Depa a 17 year student who is 66" and 270 pounds. I am so tired of hearing that he has autism and should't be held accountable. It is in court records his IQ is 97 (that is the 42nd percentile rank) and in the past it was measured as being much higher. When he was asked as part of a compentancy hearing if he knew what a defense attorney did he was able to say that it is someone who tries to prove him not guilty. Then added, "But that’s not going to work. They have video evidence against me."

So his mother makes it seems as though he was practically nonverbal and intellectually disabled. His mother homeschooled instead of enrolling him in school where he could get help. Then when she couldn't control him as a young teen she would call the police and then her insurance paid for residential care.Then when he was realized his family didn't want him back because they coundn't copw with him so they put him in a group home. The group home to get him off electronics had to call a behavior team. There is plenty of documentation of numerous outbursts, his habit of spitting on those who offended him, of threatening them with harm or death, and at times of attacking them physically and having to be restrained or repeatedly suspended.

Then a behaviorist comes up with a behavior plan that includes the following:
1.Use humor with Brendan and build a positive rapport. Avoid negative/corrective statements even after behaviors targeted for reduction have occurred.
2.Do not talk about his behaviors in front of him.
3.Avoid correcting, reprimanding, or redirecting Brendan in the presence of peers.

This is ridiculous. You can never correct him? You can't even redirect him if there are other students as in "let's do this assignment" or "it makes people upset when you spit on them". This is what teachers are up against. He first spit on the aide. But according to his behavior plan no adult is allowed to say anythin to him. The aide quickly walked out of the room to escape and he followed her. He brutally knocked her to the floor and punched and kicked her as she was helpless on the ground. Essentially that behavior plan means no one is even supposed to say anything to him as he is attacking her because that would mean they would be talking about his behaviors in front of him, redirecting him, and using negative/corrective statements. The staff were all supposed to use humor instead. As the police hauled him away he threatened to kill her and come back and murder her. He previously pushed down another aid who was harmed,

Now the mother is suing the district because the IEP wasn't followed. Interestingly enough in the lawsuit it says he was diagnosed with Other Health Impaired and Emotional and Behavioral Disorder but autism isn't listed. This student should have been in a more restrictive setting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ I don’t know why the teachers unions aren’t protesting and refusing to work either. They stopped work during Covid which was much less of a risk for them than violence in the schools (especially in some areas). And the public would actually be on their side with this, because the vast majority of us don’t want these violent kids in our schools either. At very least those kids should be put in a room all day together and kept away from the other kids. I don’t believe that any law prevents that (it’s “appropriate” to keep them apart from other kids if they’re violent) but if so then laws can be changed.

Many people would not be on the teacher’s side. They’d say we are bad at our jobs Or that we knew what we signed up for.

Not only that, but any teacher who told the truth would probably be in trouble with admin. I know one teacher who told a parent when her child was sexually assaulted in the third grade, by another child in the class - an aggressive and violent child who had been wreaking havoc in our school and hurting other children since Kindergarten, in spite of all our pleas to have him removed from gen ed. That teacher was gone within a year, and they made her life absolutely miserable until then.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone remember the teacher in FL who got kicked to a pulp in the school hallway by a deranged SN kid?

The police chief said she was lucky to have survived.

It was Bradon Depa a 17 year student who is 66" and 270 pounds. I am so tired of hearing that he has autism and should't be held accountable. It is in court records his IQ is 97 (that is the 42nd percentile rank) and in the past it was measured as being much higher. When he was asked as part of a compentancy hearing if he knew what a defense attorney did he was able to say that it is someone who tries to prove him not guilty. Then added, "But that’s not going to work. They have video evidence against me."

So his mother makes it seems as though he was practically nonverbal and intellectually disabled. His mother homeschooled instead of enrolling him in school where he could get help. Then when she couldn't control him as a young teen she would call the police and then her insurance paid for residential care.Then when he was realized his family didn't want him back because they coundn't copw with him so they put him in a group home. The group home to get him off electronics had to call a behavior team. There is plenty of documentation of numerous outbursts, his habit of spitting on those who offended him, of threatening them with harm or death, and at times of attacking them physically and having to be restrained or repeatedly suspended.

Then a behaviorist comes up with a behavior plan that includes the following:
1.Use humor with Brendan and build a positive rapport. Avoid negative/corrective statements even after behaviors targeted for reduction have occurred.
2.Do not talk about his behaviors in front of him.
3.Avoid correcting, reprimanding, or redirecting Brendan in the presence of peers.

This is ridiculous. You can never correct him? You can't even redirect him if there are other students as in "let's do this assignment" or "it makes people upset when you spit on them". This is what teachers are up against. He first spit on the aide. But according to his behavior plan no adult is allowed to say anythin to him. The aide quickly walked out of the room to escape and he followed her. He brutally knocked her to the floor and punched and kicked her as she was helpless on the ground. Essentially that behavior plan means no one is even supposed to say anything to him as he is attacking her because that would mean they would be talking about his behaviors in front of him, redirecting him, and using negative/corrective statements. The staff were all supposed to use humor instead. As the police hauled him away he threatened to kill her and come back and murder her. He previously pushed down another aid who was harmed,

Now the mother is suing the district because the IEP wasn't followed. Interestingly enough in the lawsuit it says he was diagnosed with Other Health Impaired and Emotional and Behavioral Disorder but autism isn't listed. This student should have been in a more restrictive setting.

He and his mother are monsters and liars and awful people. I think the same about the Newport News 6 year old. Every adult in his life was a dishonest excuse-making self-pitying lowlife including his 60 something *great* grandfather. That kid will kill one or more people before he turns 15. And this giant-assed monster should be imprisoned; he’s got massive size and strength and a lifetime of zero shame or boundaries, even including the diagnoses.

Some people are born sociopathic or psychopathic and the federal laws require they be included with functional, vulnerable children and teachers. Mixed right in. It’s appalling.

[Anonymous]

I hadn't heard of Brendan Depa before now and.....wow. His prison tutor is placing some of the blame for the assault on the para. Excuse me?! The Autism Society put out a statement basically absolving him of all responsibility for what happened.

I have no doubt he and his family were failed many times. Our current systems are not equipped to deal individuals suffering from severe disabilities or/and mental health diagnosis, nor are they equipped to support the families of these individuals. For Depa specifically, everything I've read screams that this is a deeply unstable individual incapable of even the most basic functioning in the real world.

But at the same time, he savagely beat a woman. He deliberately chased her down and assaulted her and then continued to assault her. He apparently knows right from wrong and was determined to be intellectually competent to stand trial. There are consequences.

I don't know what we do with the Brendan Depas of the world. Warehousing people with disabilities was too often inhumanely done. But someone like Brendon Depa, who has violent outbursts when told no or even overhearing someone talk about him, isn't someone who can be functional in society. It's a disservice to him to expect that he'll ever be able to manage day-to-day, and it put plenty of people at risk of physical harm over the years pretending that he wasn't a threat to others.