University of Virginia suspends tours that had come under fire for mentioning Thomas Jefferson's ties to slavery

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UVA alum here.
The University Guides serve a purpose to provide campus tours to prospective students which includes historically accurate info on the founding of the school. If your kiddos don’t like to hear that slaves built UVA, then perhaps they aren’t ready for the academic rigor of UVA and the growth that only comes from mature intellectual conversations based on the truth. You can’t shield them from it no matter how hard you try.

The tours at Monticello now finally tell the true story of Sally Hemmings. For decades, her quarters were closed off, and they only used part of it for public restroom, but they finally invested millions of dollars to restore back to the way it was because the story needs to be told.
https://www.monticello.org/sallyhemings/

The African-American History Museum in Washington, DC tells the true story of Thomas Jefferson.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/the-dark-side-of-thomas-jefferson-35976004/

What is UVA so scared off?
Oh maybe that the kiddos will form their own opinions on these topics?

The fact that you continue to call college-aged students "kiddos" is so telling. Monticello is an appropriate place to tell the story of Sally Hemmings. A UVA tour might mention that the school was built by slaves. But to focus an entire COLLEGE tour on racism?? Sorry, no. That is incredibly misguided. Glad to see the pendulum is finally swinging back to the middle.

I toured UVA with my kid last year and slavery was mentioned, but it was not the entire tour, nor a major focus. Many of these posters are wildly exaggerating and some may have their own agenda.

Bingo

Nope. I was hoping my kid would like UVA and was really disappointed that the tour went the way it did. Just because you are uncomfortable with what you are hearing on this thread and the fact that the tours had to be revamped accordingly doesn’t mean posters here had an agenda.

We aren’t the problem here - the guides were.

You were triggered by an 18-22 year old guide? lol

[Anonymous]

If you’re UVA alumni, you know the guides have some special status that puts them above regular clubs. They’re almost untouchable, so for this to happen, there was years of data/evidence.

The University has no higher calling than welcoming talented students from all walks of life and helping them feel at home on Grounds. When prospective students and their loved ones do us the honor of visiting, we owe them a warm welcome that puts their needs above our own.

We respect the proud role that the University Guide Service has traditionally played in helping the University fulfill this mission. We also respect and appreciate how hard the leaders of the Guide Service have worked to help their organization do and be its best, as well as the good work of individual Guides who have taken their responsibilities seriously and fulfilled them well.

Over the last several years, however, the Guide Service as an organization has struggled. Despite the best efforts of a series of dedicated leaders of the Guide Service, the organization has not been able to schedule enough members to fill the tour slots that have been allocated to the organization. Members have also failed to show up for tours they had committed to provide. And although many of the Guides have received positive feedback from guests, the quality of the tours across the organization has been inconsistent, with guests complaining, in particular, about what they have described as excessive and off-putting negativity about the University.

It is these organizational challenges that led us to offer the Guide Service the opportunity to focus on improving itself this fall while maintaining its standing as a special-status student organization. We did so in the hope that the Guide Service would work closely and cooperatively with us — as it is required to do under its special-status agreement — to restore its reliability and effectiveness in performing the delegated University function that it has agreed to perform.

Unfortunately, recent news stories have implied that these steps to improve the Guide Service were prompted by a desire to shield visitors from truths about the University’s history. This is not the case. No administrator at the University has stated or suggested to the Guides that they should falsify the University’s history or avoid the history of enslavement at the University. In fact, in a message to leaders of the Guide Service in August 2023, administrators stated our hope and expectation that the Guide Service would work with University colleagues “to tell the truth … in ways that will leave our guests feeling affirmed and inspired,” and to “share, with sensitivity and humility, the stories of those who built the University, including those who labored in enslavement.”

We are grateful to the leaders of the Guide Service for being open to working with us to improve the reliability and consistency of their tours and to maintain their close relationship with the University through its special-status agreement. Our conversations have been cordial and constructive, and we look forward to the best possible outcome for everyone involved and especially for prospective students and their loved ones.

Stephen Farmer is the Vice Provost for Enrollment at the University. He can be reached at [e-mail].

[Anonymous]

I was told Admissions has been having their paid tour guides fill in when UGuides couldn’t cover for a few years now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: It is just interesting the extent to which elements of the far left are inventing an almost pseudo religion complete with little prayers.

Yes, VA once belonged to other people, centuries before any of us were born. In that, VA is identical to essentially every other square inch of habitable dirt on earth.

Nobody doing a tour of UVA is going to be unaware that there were people in VA before the English arrived, over 400 years ago, under the reign of Queen Elizabeth I….

DP here. I don’t know about that. I look around today and see so many people that can’t agree on things like the earth is round and the moon landing so if you told me someone didn’t think people were in VA before the English arrived I would not be surprised. All it takes is someone to want to gain notoriety by making an outrageous statement and others either start to believe or feel free to admit it and it takes on a life of its own. I’m not even going to get into conspiracy theory alley and some of the things my kids have mentioned is out there on social media that is contrary to what I learned in school as being historical fact….

If for the sake of discussion we supposed there existed a person unaware the English weren’t the first people in VA, what exactly would that have to do with elite college admissions?

LOL. The exact point would be to acknowledge historical facts when you are including historical facts about the university. Correct me if I am wrong but don’t elite colleges like to talk about how they were founded and by whom before getting into the current day? If you are saying what does that have to do with UVA college admissions, I don’t necessarily disagree but I think UVA likes to make a big deal about Thomas Jefferson and being steeped in history. Again, I am not saying a college tour should be a history tour then or now, but if you are going to go there, be historically accurate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought our UVA tour was awkward. We walked by one set of dorms, saw the inside of one building, then spent the rest of the time standing on the Lawn while the guide talked about how racist the community was. Learned very little about the school. The strangest tour we had.

You forgot the part where we had to acknowledge the indigenous people whose land we were trodding upon.

Why didn’t you want to acknowledge the land?

What land in Virginia wasn’t indigenous?

Correct. They are acknowledging that.

Do you expect your grocery store to do this? The metro?

They do in places like Australia

Who here is doing college tours in Australia?

It was in response to grocery stores no colleges. Can u read?

I’ve never been on a tour of a grocery store or metro. I wondered what that poster was talking about.

You didn’t understand that all land in Virginia was once indigenous not just UVA, but that we don’t expect an acknowledgement every time we step on the metro or into a Va gas station? Not sure how that went over your head.

I do understand. I 1)disagree with you on what should be done and 2) think the grocery/metro was a super dumb example. I’m sorry so thought it was apparently a good example/question.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: It is just interesting the extent to which elements of the far left are inventing an almost pseudo religion complete with little prayers.

Yes, VA once belonged to other people, centuries before any of us were born. In that, VA is identical to essentially every other square inch of habitable dirt on earth.

Nobody doing a tour of UVA is going to be unaware that there were people in VA before the English arrived, over 400 years ago, under the reign of Queen Elizabeth I….

DP here. I don’t know about that. I look around today and see so many people that can’t agree on things like the earth is round and the moon landing so if you told me someone didn’t think people were in VA before the English arrived I would not be surprised. All it takes is someone to want to gain notoriety by making an outrageous statement and others either start to believe or feel free to admit it and it takes on a life of its own. I’m not even going to get into conspiracy theory alley and some of the things my kids have mentioned is out there on social media that is contrary to what I learned in school as being historical fact….

If for the sake of discussion we supposed there existed a person unaware the English weren’t the first people in VA, what exactly would that have to do with elite college admissions?

LOL. The exact point would be to acknowledge historical facts when you are including historical facts about the university. Correct me if I am wrong but don’t elite colleges like to talk about how they were founded and by whom before getting into the current day? If you are saying what does that have to do with UVA college admissions, I don’t necessarily disagree but I think UVA likes to make a big deal about Thomas Jefferson and being steeped in history. Again, I am not saying a college tour should be a history tour then or now, but if you are going to go there, be historically accurate.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not “mention,” it’s “entire focus” of the tour.

Big difference. I am sure the kinds of tours provided at Mount Vernon, which are comprehensive but not agenda- driven woke, will still be given at uva

The “agenda” of acknowledging slavery and fighting racism?

People aren’t touring UVA in order to fight racism.

Where should people fight racism?

I don’t care about it at all,

That’s a you problem.

Focusing the tour heavily on that is off-target, but not caring at all about racism is terrible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UVA alum here.
The University Guides serve a purpose to provide campus tours to prospective students which includes historically accurate info on the founding of the school. If your kiddos don’t like to hear that slaves built UVA, then perhaps they aren’t ready for the academic rigor of UVA and the growth that only comes from mature intellectual conversations based on the truth. You can’t shield them from it no matter how hard you try.

The tours at Monticello now finally tell the true story of Sally Hemmings. For decades, her quarters were closed off, and they only used part of it for public restroom, but they finally invested millions of dollars to restore back to the way it was because the story needs to be told.
https://www.monticello.org/sallyhemings/

The African-American History Museum in Washington, DC tells the true story of Thomas Jefferson.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/the-dark-side-of-thomas-jefferson-35976004/

What is UVA so scared off?
Oh maybe that the kiddos will form their own opinions on these topics?

The fact that you continue to call college-aged students "kiddos" is so telling. Monticello is an appropriate place to tell the story of Sally Hemmings. A UVA tour might mention that the school was built by slaves. But to focus an entire COLLEGE tour on racism?? Sorry, no. That is incredibly misguided. Glad to see the pendulum is finally swinging back to the middle.

For the most part these kids are all dependents relying on parents to pay their way through the world but it's one thing to pay 30K for your kids to be educated, it's another to pay that to have your kids be indoctrinated.

Oh no! Better not have your kid learn about the inequalities in the world.

They don't need to pay $40k to $90k a year to learn about that. In fact paying any money at all for that is a sign of low intelligence.

Next they’ll ban books about Jeffersons role in slavery. GTFOH

+1.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought our UVA tour was awkward. We walked by one set of dorms, saw the inside of one building, then spent the rest of the time standing on the Lawn while the guide talked about how racist the community was. Learned very little about the school. The strangest tour we had.

You forgot the part where we had to acknowledge the indigenous people whose land we were trodding upon.

Ours required a moment of silence. People in the tour looked so confused.

Sounds like a few rogue student guides. Not our experience at all.

? It’s literally in the news that UVA adjusted their tours. I highly doubt it was a few rogue guides. Either way, my child isn’t applying. Damage done.

Whatever will they do without your child?

You seriously think it is in UVA’s interest to have tours that turn kids off from applying? You’re being absurd.

For every kid turned off, there are plenty who become more interested, or don’t really care either way. If it really deterred your kid from applying, then it just wasn’t the right school for them. There are thousands upon thousands of others happy to take their place.

I don't think so. The international crowd really doesn't want to hear too much positive or negative about history. Either way they would feel unwelcomed. They likely expect some reference but really care more about the classes, teachers, campus life, and notable achievements of the university in the present.

I’m sure Youngkin’s appointees to the Board of Trustees totally care what the international crowd wants to hear.

Look in the mirror at your own bias. At the root is some sort of superiority need not anything actually useful. You are not that special or woke. Tons of other universities acknowledge history without such an agenda.

What agenda?

I’m definitely not special or woke. I haven’t been on one of these tours yet, but my kid scheduled one in October, so I can’t fully comment on the content until then. But I’m an alum who always found the over-the-top Jefferson worship a bit puzzling, and the downplaying of racial tensions on Grounds a bit troubling, so if the next generation wants to work on that, I say good for them.

You went to a school founded by Jefferson and you can't understand why they are excited about him? They failed you, and you failed yourself.

“Excited by him”? So creepy.

Every school that has a famous founder touts him, idiot.

What’s another example of a school with a famous founder who touts them as passionately as UVA once exalted TJ?

UPenn and Ben Franklin?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was a Guide in the early 90s. As was my husband. His brother. His brother's wife. The Guardians of our children should anything happen to us. We've helped fund a scholarship at UVA to honor our Guide friend who past away. I could go on and on. The University Guide Service has meant a lot to me -- and still does.

This is a change a long time coming and while I am sad it came to this, it had to be done. This isn't some antiwokeness or whatever. I cannot stand Youngkin, but it isn't his fault. The UGS lost their way. They needed a change. I'm hopeful that there will be something better to come.

Most recently, the Admissions office has been training Guides to do the Admissions tours. We took our DS this spring and it was a good tour - I would have liked more history and such - but there's a lot to cram in and we thought she did a great job and I even got teary at the end (full disclosure, although we were randomly assigned a Guide after the admissions session, turns out we knew her. Her Dad had been a Guide with us, her Aunt was a Guide, her Uncle...you get the idea).

We were very hesitant to allow our kid to even go on a tour because the stories for years had been horrible - from both former Guide parents to friends with no previous ties to UVA. I've been following along some of the many issues on a Facebook site for Guide alums and have been so disheartened to see what had become of a very special (to me) organization. As one alum put it -- it used to be a group of students who were very interested in telling the stories of the University, and had a lot of fun along the way too. Now it's more of a social club which takes out their angst on unsuspecting tourists and perspective students.

It pains me to see what has happened but they needed to be stopped. Perhaps Admissions should be in charge of Admissions tours, but hopefuly the UGS will pull it together and be allowed once more to give Historical tours of the amazing UNESCO World Heritage side that I got to know and love.

Thank you for the background. I think it's really strange that admissions is not in charge of tours for prospective students. (I'm a UVA law school alum who has never been on an undergrad tour)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was a Guide in the early 90s. As was my husband. His brother. His brother's wife. The Guardians of our children should anything happen to us. We've helped fund a scholarship at UVA to honor our Guide friend who past away. I could go on and on. The University Guide Service has meant a lot to me -- and still does.

This is a change a long time coming and while I am sad it came to this, it had to be done. This isn't some antiwokeness or whatever. I cannot stand Youngkin, but it isn't his fault. The UGS lost their way. They needed a change. I'm hopeful that there will be something better to come.

Most recently, the Admissions office has been training Guides to do the Admissions tours. We took our DS this spring and it was a good tour - I would have liked more history and such - but there's a lot to cram in and we thought she did a great job and I even got teary at the end (full disclosure, although we were randomly assigned a Guide after the admissions session, turns out we knew her. Her Dad had been a Guide with us, her Aunt was a Guide, her Uncle...you get the idea).

We were very hesitant to allow our kid to even go on a tour because the stories for years had been horrible - from both former Guide parents to friends with no previous ties to UVA. I've been following along some of the many issues on a Facebook site for Guide alums and have been so disheartened to see what had become of a very special (to me) organization. As one alum put it -- it used to be a group of students who were very interested in telling the stories of the University, and had a lot of fun along the way too. Now it's more of a social club which takes out their angst on unsuspecting tourists and perspective students.

It pains me to see what has happened but they needed to be stopped. Perhaps Admissions should be in charge of Admissions tours, but hopefuly the UGS will pull it together and be allowed once more to give Historical tours of the amazing UNESCO World Heritage side that I got to know and love.

Thank you for the background. I think it's really strange that admissions is not in charge of tours for prospective students. (I'm a UVA law school alum who has never been on an undergrad tour)

Used to be that when many (most?) schools had guides being a paid position, UVA had unpaid students that were the biggest cheerleaders of the school. News outlets saying paid interns at school giving tours now.

[Anonymous]

Anyone know how many students in guide service now? Saw article said students not showing up for tours. On website school now giving tours 1 time a day- historical and admissions. Curious how often tours were in recent years when students were giving.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not “mention,” it’s “entire focus” of the tour.

Big difference. I am sure the kinds of tours provided at Mount Vernon, which are comprehensive but not agenda- driven woke, will still be given at uva

The “agenda” of acknowledging slavery and fighting racism?

People aren’t touring UVA in order to fight racism.

Where should people fight racism?

I don’t care about it at all,

That’s a you problem.

Focusing the tour heavily on that is off-target, but not caring at all about racism is terrible.

I only "care" about "racism" because grifters want to use it as a reason to shake me down for money. It has lost its power as a magic word that's supposed to make everyone feel bad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not “mention,” it’s “entire focus” of the tour.

Big difference. I am sure the kinds of tours provided at Mount Vernon, which are comprehensive but not agenda- driven woke, will still be given at uva

The “agenda” of acknowledging slavery and fighting racism?

People aren’t touring UVA in order to fight racism.

Where should people fight racism?

I don’t care about it at all,

That’s a you problem.

Focusing the tour heavily on that is off-target, but not caring at all about racism is terrible.

I only "care" about "racism" because grifters want to use it as a reason to shake me down for money. It has lost its power as a magic word that's supposed to make everyone feel bad.

You don't get it

[Anonymous]

My current UVA 2nd year DD and I did the tour when she was a junior in high school. The tour was heavily focused on the university’s history with slavery. Although I was familiar with the school’s past, I did not expect the tour to focus so much on that aspect. We did not see the dorms, nor did we visit any classrooms (this could have been a Covid restriction). Nevertheless, UVA continued to be my DD’s first choice, and she is loving her experience there so far.

We did the VT Open House a few weeks later. They did an amazing job. It was so good, I hoped I could attend that school!