I feel a bit liberated wearing the hijab lately

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've heard this sentiment a lot. Lots of people think it can be a feminist stance. 30 years ago I entertained the idea. I don't anymore because I don't think male respect or female empowerment is the reason behind it. I think the reason behind it is to police women's looks, mobility and agency, and to make male lust the responsibility of women. You can put it on but you can't take it off. It's not a choice in Iran where women are taking them off as an act of rebellion. You are not subject to morality police, so you can cosplay it to represent whatever you want it to, and you'll find plenty of women who agree with you.

This is so true.

+1

I think you can wear it if that’s what you like, if that’s what makes you comfortable and if it’s what your beliefs guide you to do.

But, this bolded part is true. It is so that us, women, can’t make men lust. It’s true for Muslim women, it was true for me as a protestant woman (think Duggar style).

+1. I’d rather see men take responsibility for managing their lust, rather than tell me I can never feel the wind through my hair

[Anonymous]

Where even is OP? Is she just a propaganda bot like some said?

[Anonymous]

I am fine with women veiling as long as we are all FREE to do so, or not. Veil on!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ oh, give me a break. I see what you are saying, from your perspcetive, but the fact is we live in a society where there is objectification, some internalized and some external.

It would be awesome if we were all so strong as for us to still not care, but it's not reality.

I gather the OP just likes to eliminate that variable and not think about it, period, and this helps her.

To each their own

That’s fine, and that’s her right, but it doesn’t make her “liberated” or “empowered.” My 70 year old mother putzing around in frumpy pants and comfy shoes is more empowered, because she just no longer gives a crap. It’s not that hard to find empowered women if you look around.

YOu can't see why if you don't have to think about something, it could be empowering?
How much of this is Islamaphobia?

You get that men also cover their heads in many places where women wear hijabs, and men are also required to dress modestly?
but I hear you, you dont know what islamaphobia is

But she IS thinking about it. She is thinking about it enough to write a long diatribe on DCUM about how empowered she is and how her forehead wrinkles don’t show now.

Maybe you are right and I am “Islamophobic,” (what does that even mean?) but I feel the same about any religious push towards “modesty,” it’s always only for women. It’s just that nuns have never told me that they are empowered feminists.

Where are men required to cover their heads? I don’t think that is a requirement … anywhere.

Directives to be “modest” are always aimed primarily at women in any religion where it is a value, from Mormons to Muslims. I’m actually from a Muslim country where hijabs are growing less common and I speak Arabic but maybe you know better than me, especially whether I am Islamophobic. 👍

Seems your cultural understanding doesn't expand much beyond WASPy America?

https://www.loveyourleather.ca/leather-blog/religious-hats-and-head-coverings/

It’s clear that this discussion is beyond you but these are all traditions… NOT requirements the way the hijab is enforced by entire countries like Iran.

It has already been discussed in this thread that some communities and even some countries - like Iran and Afghanistan - take the enforcement to next level oppression. Kind of like evangelical Christians in America who make their daughters 'marry' their fathers in purity ceremonies. Not the norm for American Christianity, although some Americans Christians would like it to be and would make it so if they have the power to do so.

If you’re going to bring Christianity into it, it would be better to cite Jesus’ actual words, not some obscure practice I’ve never heard of. It’s harsh, but here it is.

Matthew 5:28-29

“But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've heard this sentiment a lot. Lots of people think it can be a feminist stance. 30 years ago I entertained the idea. I don't anymore because I don't think male respect or female empowerment is the reason behind it. I think the reason behind it is to police women's looks, mobility and agency, and to make male lust the responsibility of women. You can put it on but you can't take it off. It's not a choice in Iran where women are taking them off as an act of rebellion. You are not subject to morality police, so you can cosplay it to represent whatever you want it to, and you'll find plenty of women who agree with you.

This is so true.

+1

I think you can wear it if that’s what you like, if that’s what makes you comfortable and if it’s what your beliefs guide you to do.

But, this bolded part is true. It is so that us, women, can’t make men lust. It’s true for Muslim women, it was true for me as a protestant woman (think Duggar style).

+1. I’d rather see men take responsibility for managing their lust, rather than tell me I can never feel the wind through my hair

I know. I think it's crazy that men look at me when I take my top off at the family pool but no one even glances at men twice when they do the same.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ oh, give me a break. I see what you are saying, from your perspcetive, but the fact is we live in a society where there is objectification, some internalized and some external.

It would be awesome if we were all so strong as for us to still not care, but it's not reality.

I gather the OP just likes to eliminate that variable and not think about it, period, and this helps her.

To each their own

That’s fine, and that’s her right, but it doesn’t make her “liberated” or “empowered.” My 70 year old mother putzing around in frumpy pants and comfy shoes is more empowered, because she just no longer gives a crap. It’s not that hard to find empowered women if you look around.

YOu can't see why if you don't have to think about something, it could be empowering?
How much of this is Islamaphobia?

You get that men also cover their heads in many places where women wear hijabs, and men are also required to dress modestly?
but I hear you, you dont know what islamaphobia is

But she IS thinking about it. She is thinking about it enough to write a long diatribe on DCUM about how empowered she is and how her forehead wrinkles don’t show now.

Maybe you are right and I am “Islamophobic,” (what does that even mean?) but I feel the same about any religious push towards “modesty,” it’s always only for women. It’s just that nuns have never told me that they are empowered feminists.

Where are men required to cover their heads? I don’t think that is a requirement … anywhere.

Directives to be “modest” are always aimed primarily at women in any religion where it is a value, from Mormons to Muslims. I’m actually from a Muslim country where hijabs are growing less common and I speak Arabic but maybe you know better than me, especially whether I am Islamophobic. 👍

Also from a Muslim country, so I guess we are tied. Although I have a hard time believing that an American woman living in the US doesn't know what Islamaphobia is, or questions if it exists. Google for instructions on how men should dress. Here are the first two hits i got:

https://www.mycentraljersey.com/story/news/local/faith/2018/10/18/modesty-islam/1647658002/
https://study.com/academy/lesson/islamic-clothing-overview-practices.html#:~:text=What%20do%20Islamic%20men%20wear,as%20well%20when%20in%20public.

My comment was offhand and unclear because I don’t care to argue at length with someone insulting me but if having an opinion about religious headcoverings in general makes me Islamophobic maybe I don’t understand what Islamaphobia is.

I'm sory. I truly didn't meant to insult you. But I am accustomed to people thinking that the hijab = repression in a way that is adjacent to Islamaphobic, and it's simply not everyone's experiences.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am fine with women veiling as long as we are all FREE to do so, or not. Veil on!

This is where I land. I don’t believe it puts the responsibility for male lust where it belongs, but if OP does, that’s good for her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:how on earth does a hijab make you "feel liberated". Please explain. in detali

You don't have to style or worry about your hair in public. Don't need the latest clothing. Op said it helps her feel less conscious about wrinkles so she's probably not getting Botox. Women spend hours and lots of time on beauty. We have a community here devoted to it. Some African Americans wear wigs. It frees up time maintaining hair.

I wear. hijab but I certainly worry about wearing the latest clothing and looking good as do most hijabis. A lot of hijab is oppressive and forced on women- there are plenty of empowered women who dont wear hijab but there are also plenty of empowered women who DO wear it.

The above reference to nuns- well actually it is like that- being a nun IS empowering b/c it is making a statement about your priorities. As a muslim my purpose is to Glorify GOD and worship Him and serve creation to the best of my ability. Muslims shouldn't have much daylight between how they live and cloistered people- the minimum expected of us is praying 5 times a day- the most important prayer is the dawn prayer and that is a minimum, truly goodmuslims get up in the small hours justlike nuns and minks and pray tahajjud and also voluntarily fast regularly outside of ramadan. It is supposed to be a balance between the deprivations of asceticism which are unsustainable and also to make the joys of religious life available to all not just the privileged few b/c monks and nuns to those who truly believe are privileged to put away the business and cares of material striving, parenthood and familial burdens and focus only on the relationship that supersedes all and that is what the hijab does. If you look at how muslim men traditionally dressed, it wasn't that different- modesty is the defining characteristic of a true believer and any muslim who doesn't revel in their modesty is lacking in a fundamental understanding of shariah. the OP of this post doesn't actually understand the purpose of religious dress. Hijab should be a reminder to women who bear a heavy burden in life that despite what the world demands of them- they have a refuge in God who knows that they stand equal with their male counterparts- that their worship and inner needs are just as much of a priority-it serves as. constant nonverbal reminder to men that these women serve a higher purpose and power than them and I think men do need constant reminders that they arent the center of the universe. It is also possible to do this without a hijab or dressing certain way of course- the adoption of 'religious' garb to include all Muslim women is a religious statement that doesn't apply to other women who are quite capable of standing up for themselves without it. also caring for one's appearance is not a frivolous thing, God is beautiful and loves beauty, the desire for it is an innate human characteristic. to strive to overcome ones humanity is both futile and rebellion against the divine order. Beauty can be a separate thing than sexiness.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ oh, give me a break. I see what you are saying, from your perspcetive, but the fact is we live in a society where there is objectification, some internalized and some external.

It would be awesome if we were all so strong as for us to still not care, but it's not reality.

I gather the OP just likes to eliminate that variable and not think about it, period, and this helps her.

To each their own

That’s fine, and that’s her right, but it doesn’t make her “liberated” or “empowered.” My 70 year old mother putzing around in frumpy pants and comfy shoes is more empowered, because she just no longer gives a crap. It’s not that hard to find empowered women if you look around.

YOu can't see why if you don't have to think about something, it could be empowering?
How much of this is Islamaphobia?

Maybe she doesn't want to walk around in sweatpants not caring. Maybe that doesn't make her feel pretty. Walking around like a slob doesn't make someone empowered. Have some self respect.

[Anonymous]

Whoever OP is, she knew better than to post this in the religion forum, where the hateful atheists would freak out on her. So maybe she’s not a bot?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ oh, give me a break. I see what you are saying, from your perspcetive, but the fact is we live in a society where there is objectification, some internalized and some external.

It would be awesome if we were all so strong as for us to still not care, but it's not reality.

I gather the OP just likes to eliminate that variable and not think about it, period, and this helps her.

To each their own

That’s fine, and that’s her right, but it doesn’t make her “liberated” or “empowered.” My 70 year old mother putzing around in frumpy pants and comfy shoes is more empowered, because she just no longer gives a crap. It’s not that hard to find empowered women if you look around.

YOu can't see why if you don't have to think about something, it could be empowering?
How much of this is Islamaphobia?

Maybe she doesn't want to walk around in sweatpants not caring. Maybe that doesn't make her feel pretty. Walking around like a slob doesn't make someone empowered. Have some self respect.

The choices aren’t limited to hijab or dressing like a slob. Male responsibility is another, and being yourself/defying the male gaze is another.

[Anonymous]

I think it’s interesting that OP mentioned she doesn’t have daughters so doesn’t have to think about the impact on them. I wonder if she has considered the impact on other young women in her community who may be feeling pressure from the men in her life.

I just think it’s hard to say something is purely personal preference when it is something so cultural loaded that has been and continues to be a means of oppression in some parts of the community.

I feel that way about head coverings in my own religion (which used to be common and are still worn by some conservative women), or other religious. I’m sure there are women in those Christian fundy communities that really like wearing home made calico dresses and braided hair wrapped in their head but it still doesn’t make it a particularly empowering choice when they are telegraphing to other women in their community that they have bought into a male-directed standard of modesty. (I guess the same fashion choice by a hipster in Brooklyn could be empowering?)

Obviously OP can wear what she wants and I’m glad she’s happy with her choice. I support her right to do so and would not treat her differently based on her choice. But her post seems a little narrow in its viewpoint.

[Anonymous]

When chosen, I've always thought that the hijab was liberating. Good for you, OP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think it’s interesting that OP mentioned she doesn’t have daughters so doesn’t have to think about the impact on them. I wonder if she has considered the impact on other young women in her community who may be feeling pressure from the men in her life.

I just think it’s hard to say something is purely personal preference when it is something so cultural loaded that has been and continues to be a means of oppression in some parts of the community.

I feel that way about head coverings in my own religion (which used to be common and are still worn by some conservative women), or other religious. I’m sure there are women in those Christian fundy communities that really like wearing home made calico dresses and braided hair wrapped in their head but it still doesn’t make it a particularly empowering choice when they are telegraphing to other women in their community that they have bought into a male-directed standard of modesty. (I guess the same fashion choice by a hipster in Brooklyn could be empowering?)

Obviously OP can wear what she wants and I’m glad she’s happy with her choice. I support her right to do so and would not treat her differently based on her choice. But her post seems a little narrow in its viewpoint.

Why does every post defending hijab have to slag off Christianity? Especially when the claims are so uninformed, although maybe that’s what you’re being taught. Being a nun or a monk is NOT the only way to be a Christian, what a silly thing to say.

Anyway, veiling was NOT all that common on Mohammed’s day. It was common among wealthy women like Mohammed’s wives. Poor women, who worked on the fields etc, couldn’t manage a veil.

[Anonymous]

I have never gotten the sense that my hair is being consumed by men I pass on the street.