Disappointed with Georgetown

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:OP, have your kid tour Notre Dame. Gorgeous sprawling campus and no jets flying above, except for game days.

Completely different school.

And isn't that a good thing?

Depends on what the kid wants. Georgetown is unparalleled for its connections into DC. If that’s what a kid is looking to do, career-wise, Georgetown is the best.

Notre Dame is more your typical strong school with storied sports legacy.

NP. I thought ND was better than Georgetown academically, SFS aside.

Most people do. But this is DCUM and Georgetown is strong regionally.

Not true. My kid has zero desire for ND. He's applying to BC and GU though. Obviously- a kid that wants to be near/or in a major city. Also, applying to NYU. South Bend definitely not his thing.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:OP, tell us why you care so much about Georgetown, such as to create frequent OPs on the subject - all of which quickly and illogically veer into nothing that your primary OP addresses.

Rejection obviously. Still stings. Either her child or her own rejection.

+1. Agree.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:OP, have your kid tour Notre Dame. Gorgeous sprawling campus and no jets flying above, except for game days.

Completely different school.

And isn't that a good thing?

Depends on what the kid wants. Georgetown is unparalleled for its connections into DC. If that’s what a kid is looking to do, career-wise, Georgetown is the best.

Notre Dame is more your typical strong school with storied sports legacy.

NP. I thought ND was better than Georgetown academically, SFS aside.

Most people do. But this is DCUM and Georgetown is strong regionally.

Georgetown is respected nationally. Most people know ND for football.

ND's class is more diverse geographically than Georgetown's, but nice try.

ND is also more domestic students. Georgetown over 17% international. They love the full pay international kids. Basically, it's the St Andrews of America.

this is funny, although I do think they take too many intl kids.

Tell that to the other top schools, then - oh and you sound very ignorant.

Ivy League average is 12%. So Georgetown almost 50% higher. Now, I realize the Ivy League a much higher level of school, but for schools in the 20-50 range, I think 17% is even higher than the peer group.

Georgetown is also not a common app school. Which I doubt you knew because neither you nor your child bothered applying there.

we all know this. and they still ask for a picture!!! so insane. but still, doesn't impact how many intl students they accept

Georgetown made the photo optional a few years ago. This year, I don't even see it on the application.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:OP, have your kid tour Notre Dame. Gorgeous sprawling campus and no jets flying above, except for game days.

Completely different school.

And isn't that a good thing?

Depends on what the kid wants. Georgetown is unparalleled for its connections into DC. If that’s what a kid is looking to do, career-wise, Georgetown is the best.

Notre Dame is more your typical strong school with storied sports legacy.

NP. I thought ND was better than Georgetown academically, SFS aside.

Most people do. But this is DCUM and Georgetown is strong regionally.

Georgetown is respected nationally. Most people know ND for football.

ND's class is more diverse geographically than Georgetown's, but nice try.

ND is also more domestic students. Georgetown over 17% international. They love the full pay international kids. Basically, it's the St Andrews of America.

this is funny, although I do think they take too many intl kids.

Tell that to the other top schools, then - oh and you sound very ignorant.

Ivy League average is 12%. So Georgetown almost 50% higher. Now, I realize the Ivy League a much higher level of school, but for schools in the 20-50 range, I think 17% is even higher than the peer group.

Georgetown is also not a common app school. Which I doubt you knew because neither you nor your child bothered applying there.

we all know this. and they still ask for a picture!!! so insane. but still, doesn't impact how many intl students they accept

Georgetown made the photo optional a few years ago. This year, I don't even see it on the application.

+1

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, have your kid tour Notre Dame. Gorgeous sprawling campus and no jets flying above, except for game days.

Completely different school.

And isn't that a good thing?

Depends on what the kid wants. Georgetown is unparalleled for its connections into DC. If that’s what a kid is looking to do, career-wise, Georgetown is the best.

Notre Dame is more your typical strong school with storied sports legacy.

NP. I thought ND was better than Georgetown academically, SFS aside.

Most people do. But this is DCUM and Georgetown is strong regionally.

Georgetown is respected nationally. Most people know ND for football.

ND's class is more diverse geographically than Georgetown's, but nice try.

ND is also more domestic students. Georgetown over 17% international. They love the full pay international kids. Basically, it's the St Andrews of America.

this is funny, although I do think they take too many intl kids.

Tell that to the other top schools, then - oh and you sound very ignorant.

Ivy League average is 12%. So Georgetown almost 50% higher. Now, I realize the Ivy League a much higher level of school, but for schools in the 20-50 range, I think 17% is even higher than the peer group.

Georgetown is also not a common app school. Which I doubt you knew because neither you nor your child bothered applying there.

THIS. BRAVO.

Moreover, SFS at least requires additional essays.

The fact that the acceptance rate is as low as it is is a testament to how desirable of a school Georgetown is.

I can't think of a top 20 school that doesn't require at least two extra essays.

But Georgetown requires a completely separate application.

AND TEST SCORES---VERY HIGH ONES are REQUIRED. This combined with not being on the common app weeds out unqualified applicants from even applying so you don't get the false applicant-selectivity% that other schools use to drive the selectivity falsely down (they send countless mailings, court students...students that don't stand a chance; but having them apply makes their number look more selective and gives them application fees).

It's noted that Georgetown's selectivity is really closer to 5% if you take these things into consideration.

test scores are much lower than top 20 schools. so not that big of a deal.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, have your kid tour Notre Dame. Gorgeous sprawling campus and no jets flying above, except for game days.

Completely different school.

And isn't that a good thing?

Depends on what the kid wants. Georgetown is unparalleled for its connections into DC. If that’s what a kid is looking to do, career-wise, Georgetown is the best.

Notre Dame is more your typical strong school with storied sports legacy.

NP. I thought ND was better than Georgetown academically, SFS aside.

Most people do. But this is DCUM and Georgetown is strong regionally.

Georgetown is respected nationally. Most people know ND for football.

ND's class is more diverse geographically than Georgetown's, but nice try.

ND is also more domestic students. Georgetown over 17% international. They love the full pay international kids. Basically, it's the St Andrews of America.

this is funny, although I do think they take too many intl kids.

Tell that to the other top schools, then - oh and you sound very ignorant.

Ivy League average is 12%. So Georgetown almost 50% higher. Now, I realize the Ivy League a much higher level of school, but for schools in the 20-50 range, I think 17% is even higher than the peer group.

Georgetown is also not a common app school. Which I doubt you knew because neither you nor your child bothered applying there.

THIS. BRAVO.

Moreover, SFS at least requires additional essays.

The fact that the acceptance rate is as low as it is is a testament to how desirable of a school Georgetown is.

I can't think of a top 20 school that doesn't require at least two extra essays.

But Georgetown requires a completely separate application.

AND TEST SCORES---VERY HIGH ONES are REQUIRED. This combined with not being on the common app weeds out unqualified applicants from even applying so you don't get the false applicant-selectivity% that other schools use to drive the selectivity falsely down (they send countless mailings, court students...students that don't stand a chance; but having them apply makes their number look more selective and gives them application fees).

It's noted that Georgetown's selectivity is really closer to 5% if you take these things into consideration.

test scores are much lower than top 20 schools. so not that big of a deal.

They are lower because they are test optional.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, have your kid tour Notre Dame. Gorgeous sprawling campus and no jets flying above, except for game days.

Completely different school.

And isn't that a good thing?

Depends on what the kid wants. Georgetown is unparalleled for its connections into DC. If that’s what a kid is looking to do, career-wise, Georgetown is the best.

Notre Dame is more your typical strong school with storied sports legacy.

NP. I thought ND was better than Georgetown academically, SFS aside.

Most people do. But this is DCUM and Georgetown is strong regionally.

Georgetown is respected nationally. Most people know ND for football.

ND's class is more diverse geographically than Georgetown's, but nice try.

ND is also more domestic students. Georgetown over 17% international. They love the full pay international kids. Basically, it's the St Andrews of America.

this is funny, although I do think they take too many intl kids.

Tell that to the other top schools, then - oh and you sound very ignorant.

Ivy League average is 12%. So Georgetown almost 50% higher. Now, I realize the Ivy League a much higher level of school, but for schools in the 20-50 range, I think 17% is even higher than the peer group.

Georgetown is also not a common app school. Which I doubt you knew because neither you nor your child bothered applying there.

THIS. BRAVO.

Moreover, SFS at least requires additional essays.

The fact that the acceptance rate is as low as it is is a testament to how desirable of a school Georgetown is.

I can't think of a top 20 school that doesn't require at least two extra essays.

But Georgetown requires a completely separate application.

AND TEST SCORES---VERY HIGH ONES are REQUIRED. This combined with not being on the common app weeds out unqualified applicants from even applying so you don't get the false applicant-selectivity% that other schools use to drive the selectivity falsely down (they send countless mailings, court students...students that don't stand a chance; but having them apply makes their number look more selective and gives them application fees).

It's noted that Georgetown's selectivity is really closer to 5% if you take these things into consideration.

test scores are much lower than top 20 schools. so not that big of a deal.

They are lower because they are test optional.

Whoops! Because they are NOT test optional.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, have your kid tour Notre Dame. Gorgeous sprawling campus and no jets flying above, except for game days.

Completely different school.

And isn't that a good thing?

Depends on what the kid wants. Georgetown is unparalleled for its connections into DC. If that’s what a kid is looking to do, career-wise, Georgetown is the best.

Notre Dame is more your typical strong school with storied sports legacy.

NP. I thought ND was better than Georgetown academically, SFS aside.

Most people do. But this is DCUM and Georgetown is strong regionally.

Georgetown is respected nationally. Most people know ND for football.

ND's class is more diverse geographically than Georgetown's, but nice try.

ND is also more domestic students. Georgetown over 17% international. They love the full pay international kids. Basically, it's the St Andrews of America.

this is funny, although I do think they take too many intl kids.

Tell that to the other top schools, then - oh and you sound very ignorant.

Ivy League average is 12%. So Georgetown almost 50% higher. Now, I realize the Ivy League a much higher level of school, but for schools in the 20-50 range, I think 17% is even higher than the peer group.

Georgetown is also not a common app school. Which I doubt you knew because neither you nor your child bothered applying there.

THIS. BRAVO.

Moreover, SFS at least requires additional essays.

The fact that the acceptance rate is as low as it is is a testament to how desirable of a school Georgetown is.

I can't think of a top 20 school that doesn't require at least two extra essays.

But Georgetown requires a completely separate application.

AND TEST SCORES---VERY HIGH ONES are REQUIRED. This combined with not being on the common app weeds out unqualified applicants from even applying so you don't get the false applicant-selectivity% that other schools use to drive the selectivity falsely down (they send countless mailings, court students...students that don't stand a chance; but having them apply makes their number look more selective and gives them application fees).

It's noted that Georgetown's selectivity is really closer to 5% if you take these things into consideration.

test scores are much lower than top 20 schools. so not that big of a deal.

Georgetown SAT range: 1410-1540
Harvard: 1480-1580
Duke: 1510-1560

Under your logic, Duke is superior to Harvard. In reality, these ranges are not all that different from one another.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:It is very difficult to take seriously any post denigrating an elite college before the poster has an acceptance letter in hand. It’s just too loaded.

Not the OP, but I agree about his take on the campus and didn't "have an acceptance letter in hand." Kid didn't apply, but I am fairly sure he would have gotten in if he did. He got into ND and BC as well as some other safeties. He didn't apply to any ivies. Came from a DC Jesuit school and wanted to continue with a Catholic institution.

Why would someone need to have an acceptance letter in order to be taken seriously about their opinion on the physical condition of a college campus.

I don’t blame a kid from Prep or Gonzaga for wanting to go away to college and for having a viscerally negative reaction to any local school and not even applying. So I’d absolutely take your kid’s view on Georgetown with a huge grain of salt as well.

Also, it’s comical that PP thinks her kid would’ve definitely gotten into Georgetown. SFS has a 15% acceptance rate and the College has a 12% acceptance rate.

But sure — PP’s kid def would’ve been a shoe in.

PP here. I stand by my assertion of his likelihood of admission based on his college counselor's assurances. He had a perfect ACT score, many leadership positions, came from a Jesuit school, and we also had connections that we could have used (but obviously didn't need to).

lol ok. Whatever you say.

LOL OK. But you can't prove the PP wrong. Sounds like her kid was very qualified and probably would have gotten in. She didn't say it was a definite. Said "fairly sure." That's not definite.

I'm fairly sure my kid will get accepted to all HYPS schools. But, not going to apply. Their loss.

The PP didn't say anything about HYPS schools, which is a completely different situation. A kid out of a top DC Jesuit school with high stats and strong leadership roles has a very good chance of admission into Georgetown. Not so much at HYPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, have your kid tour Notre Dame. Gorgeous sprawling campus and no jets flying above, except for game days.

Completely different school.

And isn't that a good thing?

Depends on what the kid wants. Georgetown is unparalleled for its connections into DC. If that’s what a kid is looking to do, career-wise, Georgetown is the best.

Notre Dame is more your typical strong school with storied sports legacy.

NP. I thought ND was better than Georgetown academically, SFS aside.

Most people do. But this is DCUM and Georgetown is strong regionally.

Not true. My kid has zero desire for ND. He's applying to BC and GU though. Obviously- a kid that wants to be near/or in a major city. Also, applying to NYU. South Bend definitely not his thing.

I think the PP meant that DCUM forum will draw Georgetown boosters. That said, it is fascinating how ND in the middle of nowhere manages to maintain its top 20 status even with the unraveling of USNWR ranking methodology. Says a lot about its staying power.

[Anonymous]

Georgetown's fight song goes on and on about scoring touchdowns against Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Cornell, and Navy. Georgetown doesn't play those schools. Literally singing about a non-existent association tells you everything you need to know.

The OP's post makes some great points. Georgetown actually is exceptionally hard to get into these days. My sense is that a lot of Georgetown students/families really like that the acceptance rate is so low. Lots of people want to be there, which makes even more people want to be there. At some point it became as selective (or more) as a number of schools that are actually.......better schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My son and I did our first college tours this week. Although we don't live that far away, this was the first time I had seen Georgetown since my own tour nearly 30 years ago. It was very insightful.

A 17-year-old middle class kid who loved politics and fantasized about running for office, Georgetown was my first choice. I got into the College. The financial aid package was very loan heavy, and a top LAC (recommended by my college professor neighbor) was very grant heavy. My parents strongly pushed the latter option, and I threw away my Georgetown t-shirt and maybe shed a few tears alone in my room. The social experience at the LAC was a bit lonely, mostly because of my own anxieties, but I made up for it with academic growth. Majored in mathematics. Took lots of classics and economics courses and ended up at a world-class economics department for my Ph.D.

Obviously this visit was about my son, but I honestly felt a sense of longing as we approached the campus. There were a few initial surprises. First, the campus had a very shabby feel. Asphalt everywhere. One big, beautiful historic building, but mostly a patchwork of 1950s-1990s buildings. 757s flying over every few minutes didn't feel terribly compatible with quiet contemplation and study. After the tour, I couldn't believe that my 17-year-old self found this so desirable. The next surprise was at the information session. Admission to the undergraduate College and SFS is even tougher than I had thought. They turn away nearly 90% of applicants.

When we left, I mentioned none of this to my son, asking instead what he thought. His take: "Dad, if I could manage to get in here, I think I could also get in somewhere much better, so why bother applying." He's much more astute than I was.

Here's my take:

Georgetown is a very good -- and very expensive -- school.

Many US cities/metro areas have very fine Jesuit universities (BC, Fordham, Santa Clara, etc.). I really don't think the quality of the undergraduate education at Georgetown is any better than what one would get at those schools. Candidly, I think its basketball program is emblematic of the university as a whole. There were moments of success, but the reputation has greatly outlasted those moments.

Georgetown got a boost in the late 20th Century for a couple reasons.
1. It's in DC.
2. It's in the fanciest part of DC.
3. There's not a lot of competition in DC for the title "best university in DC."
4. It has a lot of household names among its alumni, because it attracts aspiring politicians. Successful politicians are famous, for better or worse. The vast majority of Georgetown students who want to ultimately hold high office do not.
5. It has some famous faculty who worked in government before receiving a plum academic appointment. These people are extremely impressive to 18 year old students. With age and experience you realize that many of them are just stuffed suits.

If I could make one point to prospective students, it's this: any student who can get into the College or SFS could get into a top 10 LAC -- and maybe even Williams/Amherst/Swarthmore. There is no comparison between the quality of teaching and undergraduate academic experience between Georgetown and those schools. Any student who can get into the College or SFS would also have a good chance of getting into an Ivy League school. There is no comparison between the resources and research going on at those universities and Georgetown.

I decided to write this because I'm curious about how others in this area feel, since the school remains so desirable to so many outstanding young people.

If attending a Catholic school is extremely important to you, Georgetown is the nation's oldest and most selective. If you son or daughter absolutely must be in DC for college, it is the top school in the District. Otherwise, guide your your child somewhere else.

I have two responses, as someone who is not affiliated in any way with Georgetown.

1) the planes flying overhead were MUCH louder 30 years ago than they are today.
2) As to the bolded, sure any kid *could* get into those other schools, but at single digit admissions, and I would argue that SFS would be single digit as well if it were on the common app, that for many applicants, GU is the best school that the applicant felt was the best fit, so maybe they applied to those other schools, or maybe they didn't, but not applying and then not gaining admissions to other single digit admit rate schools if it is still a desire to be in DC or be at a school like GU, seems silly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Georgetown's fight song goes on and on about scoring touchdowns against Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Cornell, and Navy. Georgetown doesn't play those schools. Literally singing about a non-existent association tells you everything you need to know.

The OP's post makes some great points. Georgetown actually is exceptionally hard to get into these days. My sense is that a lot of Georgetown students/families really like that the acceptance rate is so low. Lots of people want to be there, which makes even more people want to be there. At some point it became as selective (or more) as a number of schools that are actually.......better schools.

The reason Georgetown is not common app is specifically because they do not want to appear artificially selective. They have been very consistent in saying this.

[Anonymous]

Georgetown’s fight song mentions Harvard and Yale because Georgetown used to play them.

Dm

[Anonymous]

Also, I don’t understand how you can conclude Georgetown is overly selective when they are inflating their acceptance rate by 2x, at least, through mandatory test scores, interviews, and no common app.