Community Message Concerning Access to the Carver Educational Services Center on Thursday, July 20

Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:LGBTQ books belong in the family life curriculum. Period.


So "Lilly's Big Day" (Lilly participates in the wedding of a man and a woman) belongs in the ELA curriculum, but "Uncle Bobby's Wedding" (Chloe participates in the wedding of a man and a man) belongs in the Family Life curriculum ("Period")? Why?


I don’t have a problem with books about adults getting married. It’s the ones that portray kids and gender or romance (gay or not). There are books about changing genders and about a crush someone has on another kid who happens to be the same sex. Those don’t belong in ELA.


Romeo and Juliet MUST BE BANNED!!!!


Jokes on you. MCPS no longer requires kids to read Shakespeare anyway. You pretty much have to choose and sign up for Shakespeare classes if you want that exposure.


As of when? This past year (2022-2023)? Because my kid read Shakespeare the year before that (2021-2022).


Reading lists for 9th and 10th. No Shakespeare.





Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:LGBTQ books belong in the family life curriculum. Period.


So "Lilly's Big Day" (Lilly participates in the wedding of a man and a woman) belongs in the ELA curriculum, but "Uncle Bobby's Wedding" (Chloe participates in the wedding of a man and a man) belongs in the Family Life curriculum ("Period")? Why?


I don’t have a problem with books about adults getting married. It’s the ones that portray kids and gender or romance (gay or not). There are books about changing genders and about a crush someone has on another kid who happens to be the same sex. Those don’t belong in ELA.


Romeo and Juliet MUST BE BANNED!!!!


Jokes on you. MCPS no longer requires kids to read Shakespeare anyway. You pretty much have to choose and sign up for Shakespeare classes if you want that exposure.


As of when? This past year (2022-2023)? Because my kid read Shakespeare the year before that (2021-2022).


Reading lists for 9th and 10th. No Shakespeare.







English 9 Core Texts:

The Comedy of Errors
William Shakespeare
Romeo and Juliet
William Shakespeare
Twelfth Night
William Shakespeare

p. 32 in https://docs.google.com/document/d/129Wo-64urXNgSbw4gbDHqtu8GNOYkqu3xJD3O4uNurY/edit
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:LGBTQ books belong in the family life curriculum. Period.


So "Lilly's Big Day" (Lilly participates in the wedding of a man and a woman) belongs in the ELA curriculum, but "Uncle Bobby's Wedding" (Chloe participates in the wedding of a man and a man) belongs in the Family Life curriculum ("Period")? Why?


I don’t have a problem with books about adults getting married. It’s the ones that portray kids and gender or romance (gay or not). There are books about changing genders and about a crush someone has on another kid who happens to be the same sex. Those don’t belong in ELA.


Romeo and Juliet MUST BE BANNED!!!!


Jokes on you. MCPS no longer requires kids to read Shakespeare anyway. You pretty much have to choose and sign up for Shakespeare classes if you want that exposure.


As of when? This past year (2022-2023)? Because my kid read Shakespeare the year before that (2021-2022).


My 10th grader hasn't ready Shakespeare in either 9th or 10th grade.

When I was in MCPS, we read Romeo + Juliet in 9th and in 10th grade I think it was Merchant of Venice?

Anyway, our DCC high school is majority black and brown so I think they justified doing away with requiring Shakespeare because it's not "culturally relevant" to our school population. So some of this might vary by school within MCPS.


I'm the PP you're responding to, whose kid had Shakespeare in high school, and my kid's non-DCC MCPS high school is also majority Black and Hispanic.

I do think there's an argument to be made (including by John McWhorter, of all people) that Shakespeare is not linguistically relevant anymore. You need an awful lot of footnotes to be able to understand Shakespeare properly. Or Shmoop.


While I think my MCPS graduates studied Shakespeare, I always wished they could have had an English class like my 12th grade English. Starting with Beowulf, we covered the development of British literature (including Shakespeare), along with the historical context of each period.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:LGBTQ books belong in the family life curriculum. Period.


So "Lilly's Big Day" (Lilly participates in the wedding of a man and a woman) belongs in the ELA curriculum, but "Uncle Bobby's Wedding" (Chloe participates in the wedding of a man and a man) belongs in the Family Life curriculum ("Period")? Why?


I don’t have a problem with books about adults getting married. It’s the ones that portray kids and gender or romance (gay or not). There are books about changing genders and about a crush someone has on another kid who happens to be the same sex. Those don’t belong in ELA.


Romeo and Juliet MUST BE BANNED!!!!


Jokes on you. MCPS no longer requires kids to read Shakespeare anyway. You pretty much have to choose and sign up for Shakespeare classes if you want that exposure.


As of when? This past year (2022-2023)? Because my kid read Shakespeare the year before that (2021-2022).


My 10th grader hasn't ready Shakespeare in either 9th or 10th grade.

When I was in MCPS, we read Romeo + Juliet in 9th and in 10th grade I think it was Merchant of Venice?

Anyway, our DCC high school is majority black and brown so I think they justified doing away with requiring Shakespeare because it's not "culturally relevant" to our school population. So some of this might vary by school within MCPS.


I'm the PP you're responding to, whose kid had Shakespeare in high school, and my kid's non-DCC MCPS high school is also majority Black and Hispanic.

I do think there's an argument to be made (including by John McWhorter, of all people) that Shakespeare is not linguistically relevant anymore. You need an awful lot of footnotes to be able to understand Shakespeare properly. Or Shmoop.


I mean, Shakespeare wasn't linguistically relevant when I was a student in the 90s, but decoding Shakespeare was actually a plus and not a minus, in my opinion. Learning to decode Shakespeare challenged students, and expanded our depth and complexity of thought and language, because we had to do the legwork of not just reading the stories, but also INTERPRETING it.

But again, I heard many equity advocates argue Shakespeare was alienating to black and brown students, because it was inaccessible. As a black parent who always enjoyed Shakespeare, I obviously disagreed, but I'm clearly in the minority in this county.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I am not religious person, but I wouldn't want gender change ideas being taught to my 6 years old son. Thankfully some parents are fighting the good cause and MCPS is the problem here.


I am also not religious, but I have two degrees in Science and everything I have been taught makes me comfortable with the concept that gender is an assigned quality. It is not something that you can change.

I also don't want MCPS teaching my elementary school aged kid that he can change his gender. That is simply not true. He can wear dresses and enjoy 'girly' activities. But, he is a boy doing that.

MCPS has gone too far with this. I hope this lawsuit gains some traction and I hope the protesters get their voices heard.

Have you kept up with the research? There's good evidence that gender identity is set prenatally regardless of the individual's particular X and Y chromosomes.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6677266/

"Sexual identity and sexual orientation are independent components of a person’s sexual identity. These dimensions are most often in harmony with each other and with an individual’s genital sex, although not always. The present review discusses the relationship of sexual identity and sexual orientation to prenatal factors that act to shape the development of the brain and the expression of sexual behaviours in animals and humans. One major influence discussed relates to organisational effects that the early hormone environment exerts on both gender identity and sexual orientation. Evidence that gender identity and sexual orientation are masculinised by prenatal exposure to testosterone and feminised in it absence is drawn from basic research in animals, correlations of biometric indices of androgen exposure and studies of clinical conditions associated with disorders in sexual development."
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:LGBTQ books belong in the family life curriculum. Period.


So "Lilly's Big Day" (Lilly participates in the wedding of a man and a woman) belongs in the ELA curriculum, but "Uncle Bobby's Wedding" (Chloe participates in the wedding of a man and a man) belongs in the Family Life curriculum ("Period")? Why?


I don’t have a problem with books about adults getting married. It’s the ones that portray kids and gender or romance (gay or not). There are books about changing genders and about a crush someone has on another kid who happens to be the same sex. Those don’t belong in ELA.


Romeo and Juliet MUST BE BANNED!!!!


Jokes on you. MCPS no longer requires kids to read Shakespeare anyway. You pretty much have to choose and sign up for Shakespeare classes if you want that exposure.


As of when? This past year (2022-2023)? Because my kid read Shakespeare the year before that (2021-2022).


Reading lists for 9th and 10th. No Shakespeare.







English 9 Core Texts:

The Comedy of Errors
William Shakespeare
Romeo and Juliet
William Shakespeare
Twelfth Night
William Shakespeare

p. 32 in https://docs.google.com/document/d/129Wo-64urXNgSbw4gbDHqtu8GNOYkqu3xJD3O4uNurY/edit


That's the specific course on William Shakespeare (English 9B.3). Those books are not read in most of the English classes in MCPS. Nice try though.





Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:LGBTQ books belong in the family life curriculum. Period.


So "Lilly's Big Day" (Lilly participates in the wedding of a man and a woman) belongs in the ELA curriculum, but "Uncle Bobby's Wedding" (Chloe participates in the wedding of a man and a man) belongs in the Family Life curriculum ("Period")? Why?


I don’t have a problem with books about adults getting married. It’s the ones that portray kids and gender or romance (gay or not). There are books about changing genders and about a crush someone has on another kid who happens to be the same sex. Those don’t belong in ELA.


Romeo and Juliet MUST BE BANNED!!!!


Jokes on you. MCPS no longer requires kids to read Shakespeare anyway. You pretty much have to choose and sign up for Shakespeare classes if you want that exposure.


As of when? This past year (2022-2023)? Because my kid read Shakespeare the year before that (2021-2022).


My 10th grader hasn't ready Shakespeare in either 9th or 10th grade.

When I was in MCPS, we read Romeo + Juliet in 9th and in 10th grade I think it was Merchant of Venice?

Anyway, our DCC high school is majority black and brown so I think they justified doing away with requiring Shakespeare because it's not "culturally relevant" to our school population. So some of this might vary by school within MCPS.


I'm the PP you're responding to, whose kid had Shakespeare in high school, and my kid's non-DCC MCPS high school is also majority Black and Hispanic.

I do think there's an argument to be made (including by John McWhorter, of all people) that Shakespeare is not linguistically relevant anymore. You need an awful lot of footnotes to be able to understand Shakespeare properly. Or Shmoop.


While I think my MCPS graduates studied Shakespeare, I always wished they could have had an English class like my 12th grade English. Starting with Beowulf, we covered the development of British literature (including Shakespeare), along with the historical context of each period.


I love triple-decker novels from Victorian England as much as the next person - actually I probably love triple-decker novels from Victorian England a whole lot more than the next person - but I really don't think everyone has to read them in high school. There is now literature in English from all over the world. I would much rather students read books they connect with (whichever books those are) than grudgingly Wikipedia their way through a book because someone at some point decided it was a classic.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:

That's the specific course on William Shakespeare (English 9B.3). Those books are not read in most of the English classes in MCPS. Nice try though.



-Shakespeare isn't on the reading list!
-Shakespeare is on the reading list.
-That reading list doesn't count!
Anonymous
At least they adjusted the policy to comply with laws. Last time, they violated the Open Meetings Act and the First Amendment of the U.S Constitution by prohibiting the public and the Press from attending. Now, they are permitting attendance on a first-come-first-served basis, which is legal.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:LGBTQ books belong in the family life curriculum. Period.


So "Lilly's Big Day" (Lilly participates in the wedding of a man and a woman) belongs in the ELA curriculum, but "Uncle Bobby's Wedding" (Chloe participates in the wedding of a man and a man) belongs in the Family Life curriculum ("Period")? Why?


I don’t have a problem with books about adults getting married. It’s the ones that portray kids and gender or romance (gay or not). There are books about changing genders and about a crush someone has on another kid who happens to be the same sex. Those don’t belong in ELA.


Romeo and Juliet MUST BE BANNED!!!!


Jokes on you. MCPS no longer requires kids to read Shakespeare anyway. You pretty much have to choose and sign up for Shakespeare classes if you want that exposure.


As of when? This past year (2022-2023)? Because my kid read Shakespeare the year before that (2021-2022).


Reading lists for 9th and 10th. No Shakespeare.







English 9 Core Texts:

The Comedy of Errors
William Shakespeare
Romeo and Juliet
William Shakespeare
Twelfth Night
William Shakespeare

p. 32 in https://docs.google.com/document/d/129Wo-64urXNgSbw4gbDHqtu8GNOYkqu3xJD3O4uNurY/edit


That's the specific course on William Shakespeare (English 9B.3). Those books are not read in most of the English classes in MCPS. Nice try though.







English 9B is the second semester of ninth grade English, 9B.3 is just the third unit in the second half of ninth grade English.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

That's the specific course on William Shakespeare (English 9B.3). Those books are not read in most of the English classes in MCPS. Nice try though.



-Shakespeare isn't on the reading list!
-Shakespeare is on the reading list.
-That reading list doesn't count!


DCUM is so obnoxious. The point being discussed is how MCPS went from Shakespeare texts being a mandated, standard part of ELA curriculum in middle and high school to one that's optional.

The PP pointed out that the standard curriculum MOST MCPS students get now does not include Shakespeare. As the poster and I pointed out, Shakespeare is now relegated to a version of literature or ELA classes that students must actively choose. It is no longer included by default.

That was the point. Not that Shakespeare was banned or inaccessible completely. But you know this and you just want to dunk on splitting hairs and semantics.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

That's the specific course on William Shakespeare (English 9B.3). Those books are not read in most of the English classes in MCPS. Nice try though.



-Shakespeare isn't on the reading list!
-Shakespeare is on the reading list.
-That reading list doesn't count!


DCUM is so obnoxious. The point being discussed is how MCPS went from Shakespeare texts being a mandated, standard part of ELA curriculum in middle and high school to one that's optional.

The PP pointed out that the standard curriculum MOST MCPS students get now does not include Shakespeare. As the poster and I pointed out, Shakespeare is now relegated to a version of literature or ELA classes that students must actively choose. It is no longer included by default.

That was the point. Not that Shakespeare was banned or inaccessible completely. But you know this and you just want to dunk on splitting hairs and semantics.


The PP was incorrect.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

That's the specific course on William Shakespeare (English 9B.3). Those books are not read in most of the English classes in MCPS. Nice try though.



-Shakespeare isn't on the reading list!
-Shakespeare is on the reading list.
-That reading list doesn't count!


DCUM is so obnoxious. The point being discussed is how MCPS went from Shakespeare texts being a mandated, standard part of ELA curriculum in middle and high school to one that's optional.

The PP pointed out that the standard curriculum MOST MCPS students get now does not include Shakespeare. As the poster and I pointed out, Shakespeare is now relegated to a version of literature or ELA classes that students must actively choose. It is no longer included by default.

That was the point. Not that Shakespeare was banned or inaccessible completely. But you know this and you just want to dunk on splitting hairs and semantics.


DP. Sorry, you are incorrect. English 9B is the default 9th grade English class, after 9A the first semester. My kid just took it last semester at a DCC high school and the whole class read Romeo and Juliet.
Anonymous
I wonder if there would be such an outcry if the books just focused on same sex relationships? Was it the inclusion of the gender identity books that caused the outcry.

I don't think kids should be opted out of any topic taught in schools.

My kids are older but I would have had no problem with them hearing of a book in which there was a same sex relationship. Like they are going to an uncle's gay wedding.

I don't know how I feel about any book geared towards younger kids in which hte main characters (usually young kids) have romantic feelings toward anyone. is any of that appropriate at that age?

I think the gender identity books shouldn't be read to the younger elementary kids. I completely understand where the parents are coming from. I really don't see much benefit.

But I don't think parents should opt out of anything being taught in the classroom.

Can't MCPS just not read those books? Have them in the library, sure. No problem. But don't make it part of the curriculum. Referring to the gender identity books.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:I wonder if there would be such an outcry if the books just focused on same sex relationships? Was it the inclusion of the gender identity books that caused the outcry.

I don't think kids should be opted out of any topic taught in schools.

My kids are older but I would have had no problem with them hearing of a book in which there was a same sex relationship. Like they are going to an uncle's gay wedding.

I don't know how I feel about any book geared towards younger kids in which hte main characters (usually young kids) have romantic feelings toward anyone. is any of that appropriate at that age?

I think the gender identity books shouldn't be read to the younger elementary kids. I completely understand where the parents are coming from. I really don't see much benefit.

But I don't think parents should opt out of anything being taught in the classroom.

Can't MCPS just not read those books? Have them in the library, sure. No problem. But don't make it part of the curriculum. Referring to the gender identity books.


Captive audience, indoctrinate. That's the agenda.

Any parents will want to protect their 5 year old child form this non-sense.



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