Stanford Sued After Following Another Student Suicide

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't expect the universities to watch over my child's mental health. They are adults. There are millions of 18 -22 year olds out there working and living on their own with no one managing their mental health. I sent my kids there to receive an education. Sure they make a big deal about 'family' and nonsense like that but in the end it is a business and a business arrangement. As a business, they are not going to provide anything they don't have to to keep your business.

As for the discipline. I have always told my children if anything happens to them, they go to the real police. We don't deal with the campus police and those disciplinary committees. Frankly I can't believe how acceptable it is for the school to adjudicate that stuff as they clearly have a conflict of interest. The same way they have an incentive to keep their crime stats low.

You are paying for classes and a hotel. All the other stuff is smoke and mirrors. I feel very bad for this girl and her family but this isn't all on the University at all.

18-22 year Olds are not adults in the moral sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Stanford should be held liable for this. Utterly callous and negligent. Young adults when put in vulnerable positions aren’t in a position to think rationally. Their brains are not fully developed yet.

What’s more shocking is Stanford’s reaction to this. A family lost their daughter forever!

I am amazed at their callous treatment of her - she was a goalie for their women’s soccer team. Where were the coaches? There were no faculty/coaches looped in or supporting her?

Exactly. No one was there for her. I get she was an adult but still she was vulnerable and let Stanford know that in many formats. I am not condoning her actions (assuming it was not an accident). But there was context and also she earned the right to make a mistake. After all she did for the school, she deserved someone there supporting her. I don’t think $10m is enough.

I’m just curious if posters like you would say the same if the roles were reversed. A man throws coffee on a woman he perceives to have wrong a friend of his, and he injures her in some way. Would you expect the university to provide him with “support” while they investigated his actions?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Stanford should be held liable for this. Utterly callous and negligent. Young adults when put in vulnerable positions aren’t in a position to think rationally. Their brains are not fully developed yet.

What’s more shocking is Stanford’s reaction to this. A family lost their daughter forever!

I am amazed at their callous treatment of her - she was a goalie for their women’s soccer team. Where were the coaches? There were no faculty/coaches looped in or supporting her?

Exactly. No one was there for her. I get she was an adult but still she was vulnerable and let Stanford know that in many formats. I am not condoning her actions (assuming it was not an accident). But there was context and also she earned the right to make a mistake. After all she did for the school, she deserved someone there supporting her. I don’t think $10m is enough.

Come on. We’ve spent decades getting to a place where we finally understand that football players who risk their bodies to generate tens of millions of dollars and incalculable goodwill for their universities don’t earn the right to make mistakes with other people’s bodies on campus. It is a good thing that athletes are held to account for assaulting other people.

3 months after the she still claimed it was an accident. She should have been advised to own it, take her lumps and move on. I imagine worst case she gets suspended.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder how many men accused of sexual assault at Stanford received an email threatening to withhold their diploma? I would be shocked if it were any. Certainly if a woman decides not to file a complaint, there is no discipline.

Meanwhile, she spills coffee. He doesn’t file a complaint. And Stanford still goes for the nuclear option. That’s an absurd over reaction. Did they learn nothing from Brock Turner?

I’m so furious. I was part of a similar incident at Dartmouth. The deans tried to push me into the campus disciplinary system and were pissed when I went to the Hanover police and asked to press charges. I was repeatedly asked by an administrator responsible for my access to course registration and on-campus job recruiting to drop the charges because it would be “better” to deal with it on campus. For them.

In the end, I stayed on campus during a break to testify in court. Unfortunately the prosecutor accepted a plea deal the day before. The incident- in which I had done nothing- ultimately affected my recruiting and my life after graduation.

Rest in peace, Katie Meyer. I hate what they did to her and respect her so much- anyone who doesn’t understand the power an institution has over its students in this kind of scenario is ignorant and naive. I wish they hadn’t cornered her like this.

How is this remotely similar? You were the victim, Katie was alleged to be the assailant.

The point is that universities should NOT be allowed to handle these situations.

The real problem is that the original sexual which was reported on campus was ignored by the university, and none of this might have happened if the university had properly addressed the sexual assault! Instead, Stanford, Dartmouth, and a host of other universities have broken extralegal disciplinary processes that do nothing but serve the university and its PR. Imagine if the original assailant had been punished? Instead he’s walking free and a girl who stood up for her friend was dragged into a convoluted, opaque system of punishment.

Adults don’t “stand up for their friends” by committing assault (yes, that’s what it is) and deliberately burning someone with a hot liquid. No. Sorry.

This could only be posted by a man, because I have known multiple adult women in college and grad school who, facing inaction by a university, threw a beer, a plate of dining hall food, trash, etc. at the assailant of their friend. Sometimes the only option left to show in public that friends will stand up for their victimized friend is a petty and stupid but very public act- like the coffee thing. And if you knew anything about Stanford biking culture, the layout of campus, and the fact that most athletes know each other at least by face, this would seem so much less “shocking” to you.

Six days later is plenty of time for cooler heads to prevail. I don’t think people would be defending a male athlete throwing hot coffee on a female athlete for some perceived wrongdoing that had been investigated and dropped by two different investigatory agencies.

Yes. Women should just get over a sexual assault in less than a week.

I only saw one investigatory agency. And interesting they felt they could investigate and make a decision on the football player in less than a week, but the soccer player has it drag on for six months

Where are you getting that the investigation into the football player was over in a week? I haven’t seen that anywhere.

Me either,

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Stanford should be held liable for this. Utterly callous and negligent. Young adults when put in vulnerable positions aren’t in a position to think rationally. Their brains are not fully developed yet.

What’s more shocking is Stanford’s reaction to this. A family lost their daughter forever!

I am amazed at their callous treatment of her - she was a goalie for their women’s soccer team. Where were the coaches? There were no faculty/coaches looped in or supporting her?

Exactly. No one was there for her. I get she was an adult but still she was vulnerable and let Stanford know that in many formats. I am not condoning her actions (assuming it was not an accident). But there was context and also she earned the right to make a mistake. After all she did for the school, she deserved someone there supporting her. I don’t think $10m is enough.

There for her how? She was seeing a therapist at Stanford but skipped her last appointment. The school specifically told her she was entitled to bring someone with her to the hearing and was given a number where she could seek assistance 24/7.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder how many men accused of sexual assault at Stanford received an email threatening to withhold their diploma? I would be shocked if it were any. Certainly if a woman decides not to file a complaint, there is no discipline.

Meanwhile, she spills coffee. He doesn’t file a complaint. And Stanford still goes for the nuclear option. That’s an absurd over reaction. Did they learn nothing from Brock Turner?

I’m so furious. I was part of a similar incident at Dartmouth. The deans tried to push me into the campus disciplinary system and were pissed when I went to the Hanover police and asked to press charges. I was repeatedly asked by an administrator responsible for my access to course registration and on-campus job recruiting to drop the charges because it would be “better” to deal with it on campus. For them.

In the end, I stayed on campus during a break to testify in court. Unfortunately the prosecutor accepted a plea deal the day before. The incident- in which I had done nothing- ultimately affected my recruiting and my life after graduation.

Rest in peace, Katie Meyer. I hate what they did to her and respect her so much- anyone who doesn’t understand the power an institution has over its students in this kind of scenario is ignorant and naive. I wish they hadn’t cornered her like this.

How is this remotely similar? You were the victim, Katie was alleged to be the assailant.

The point is that universities should NOT be allowed to handle these situations.

The real problem is that the original sexual which was reported on campus was ignored by the university, and none of this might have happened if the university had properly addressed the sexual assault! Instead, Stanford, Dartmouth, and a host of other universities have broken extralegal disciplinary processes that do nothing but serve the university and its PR. Imagine if the original assailant had been punished? Instead he’s walking free and a girl who stood up for her friend was dragged into a convoluted, opaque system of punishment.

Adults don’t “stand up for their friends” by committing assault (yes, that’s what it is) and deliberately burning someone with a hot liquid. No. Sorry.

This could only be posted by a man, because I have known multiple adult women in college and grad school who, facing inaction by a university, threw a beer, a plate of dining hall food, trash, etc. at the assailant of their friend. Sometimes the only option left to show in public that friends will stand up for their victimized friend is a petty and stupid but very public act- like the coffee thing. And if you knew anything about Stanford biking culture, the layout of campus, and the fact that most athletes know each other at least by face, this would seem so much less “shocking” to you.

Six days later is plenty of time for cooler heads to prevail. I don’t think people would be defending a male athlete throwing hot coffee on a female athlete for some perceived wrongdoing that had been investigated and dropped by two different investigatory agencies.

Yes. Women should just get over a sexual assault in less than a week.

I only saw one investigatory agency. And interesting they felt they could investigate and make a decision on the football player in less than a week, but the soccer player has it drag on for six months

Where are you getting that the investigation into the football player was over in a week? I haven’t seen that anywhere.

I saw somewhere that it was reported 8/21 and the coffee happened 8/28…but am a little confused about that because it is weird it would be resolved so quickly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It seems to me that this threatened punishment was excessively punitive and should not have been communicated by email given the prior notice the university had of her heightened stress AND suicidal thoughts. I think the university is at fault. Do I think it was an accident, of course not. Should she have admitted it and begged for forgiveness, maybe. But for all she had done for the university, she deserved a slip up. Her mistake just pales in comparison to all the positivity AND the victim was not asking for justice, he wanted the issue dropped. Shame of Stanford for using her as an example. I believe it was bullying. They had so many opportunities to protect her but chose to make an example out of her. If she had been a male football player, it would not have happened.

+1

If you just read the headlines, I can understand why many question the merits of the lawsuit. .

But digging deeper, it's hard not to conclude that Stanford's handling of the case was overly punitive and inconsistent with their handling of other campus disciplinary cases. That contributes to the mental health crisis on campus...the sense that discipline is arbitrary and unfair, and certain groups of students are protected by the university while others face more severe consequences. There's no question she shouldn't have poured coffee on the football player. Yet reading the details of how it was handled, I can't see how anyone can logically conclude that the university's actions and threats were appropriate. College kids aren't known for sound judgment...I get that there are lessons to be learned and responsibility to be taken, but I'm floored that anyone in the administration thought this approach was a sound way to produce those outcomes. Clearly it wasn't.

One can only hope that this tragedy might lead to reform. Sadly, a lawsuit is sometimes what it takes for change to happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems to me that this threatened punishment was excessively punitive and should not have been communicated by email given the prior notice the university had of her heightened stress AND suicidal thoughts. I think the university is at fault. Do I think it was an accident, of course not. Should she have admitted it and begged for forgiveness, maybe. But for all she had done for the university, she deserved a slip up. Her mistake just pales in comparison to all the positivity AND the victim was not asking for justice, he wanted the issue dropped. Shame of Stanford for using her as an example. I believe it was bullying. They had so many opportunities to protect her but chose to make an example out of her. If she had been a male football player, it would not have happened.

+1

If you just read the headlines, I can understand why many question the merits of the lawsuit. .

But digging deeper, it's hard not to conclude that Stanford's handling of the case was overly punitive and inconsistent with their handling of other campus disciplinary cases. That contributes to the mental health crisis on campus...the sense that discipline is arbitrary and unfair, and certain groups of students are protected by the university while others face more severe consequences. There's no question she shouldn't have poured coffee on the football player. Yet reading the details of how it was handled, I can't see how anyone can logically conclude that the university's actions and threats were appropriate. College kids aren't known for sound judgment...I get that there are lessons to be learned and responsibility to be taken, but I'm floored that anyone in the administration thought this approach was a sound way to produce those outcomes. Clearly it wasn't.

One can only hope that this tragedy might lead to reform. Sadly, a lawsuit is sometimes what it takes for change to happen.

How can you conclude that when they had not even gotten to the hearing stage and no discipline had yet been imposed? The Last email was the email saying there would be a hearing and informing her of her rights with respect to a hearing. Expulsion was listed as a possible outcome among other punishments.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I don’t think people would be defending a male athlete throwing hot coffee on a female athlete for some perceived wrongdoing that had been investigated and dropped by two different investigatory agencies.

That's not the issue. Throwing hot coffee on another person is not defensible.

The concern is how the university handled that transgression. Was it overly punitive? Was it appropriate to threaten removal of her degree? Is it fair that other students who commit physical assault don't face similar consequences? Should her previously clean disciplinary record (3+ years on campus) be considered? Should their knowledge that she was seeking therapy factor into how they delivered this news? Was it necessary to draw out the process for six months and deliver the threat of expulsion within hours of the filing deadline? Was there appropriate due process? And the bigger question...did the sum of their actions contribute to her death?

Stanford's OCR judicial process was under scrutiny for over 10 years prior to this incident. Reforms were recommended. It seems many of those reforms were not implemented.

I'm not sure the university will be held accountable, but one can hope this leads to reform of their disciplinary process. This is a life that could have been saved with a different approach...that's the real tragedy here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I don’t think people would be defending a male athlete throwing hot coffee on a female athlete for some perceived wrongdoing that had been investigated and dropped by two different investigatory agencies.

That's not the issue. Throwing hot coffee on another person is not defensible.

The concern is how the university handled that transgression. Was it overly punitive? Was it appropriate to threaten removal of her degree? Is it fair that other students who commit physical assault don't face similar consequences? Should her previously clean disciplinary record (3+ years on campus) be considered? Should their knowledge that she was seeking therapy factor into how they delivered this news? Was it necessary to draw out the process for six months and deliver the threat of expulsion within hours of the filing deadline? Was there appropriate due process? And the bigger question...did the sum of their actions contribute to her death?

Stanford's OCR judicial process was under scrutiny for over 10 years prior to this incident. Reforms were recommended. It seems many of those reforms were not implemented.

I'm not sure the university will be held accountable, but one can hope this leads to reform of their disciplinary process. This is a life that could have been saved with a different approach...that's the real tragedy here.

She hadn’t even had her hearing on the merits of the charge and appropriate punishment, so most of those questions can’t be answered. It certainly sounds like sufficient due process as she had a least one opportunity, possibly more, to present her side of the story before the decision was made to hold a hearing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't expect the universities to watch over my child's mental health. They are adults. There are millions of 18 -22 year olds out there working and living on their own with no one managing their mental health. I sent my kids there to receive an education. Sure they make a big deal about 'family' and nonsense like that but in the end it is a business and a business arrangement. As a business, they are not going to provide anything they don't have to to keep your business.

As for the discipline. I have always told my children if anything happens to them, they go to the real police. We don't deal with the campus police and those disciplinary committees. Frankly I can't believe how acceptable it is for the school to adjudicate that stuff as they clearly have a conflict of interest. The same way they have an incentive to keep their crime stats low.

You are paying for classes and a hotel. All the other stuff is smoke and mirrors. I feel very bad for this girl and her family but this isn't all on the University at all.

18-22 year Olds are not adults in the moral sense.

What does that even mean?? Not adults in the “moral sense”??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder how many men accused of sexual assault at Stanford received an email threatening to withhold their diploma? I would be shocked if it were any. Certainly if a woman decides not to file a complaint, there is no discipline.

Meanwhile, she spills coffee. He doesn’t file a complaint. And Stanford still goes for the nuclear option. That’s an absurd over reaction. Did they learn nothing from Brock Turner?

I’m so furious. I was part of a similar incident at Dartmouth. The deans tried to push me into the campus disciplinary system and were pissed when I went to the Hanover police and asked to press charges. I was repeatedly asked by an administrator responsible for my access to course registration and on-campus job recruiting to drop the charges because it would be “better” to deal with it on campus. For them.

In the end, I stayed on campus during a break to testify in court. Unfortunately the prosecutor accepted a plea deal the day before. The incident- in which I had done nothing- ultimately affected my recruiting and my life after graduation.

Rest in peace, Katie Meyer. I hate what they did to her and respect her so much- anyone who doesn’t understand the power an institution has over its students in this kind of scenario is ignorant and naive. I wish they hadn’t cornered her like this.

How is this remotely similar? You were the victim, Katie was alleged to be the assailant.

The point is that universities should NOT be allowed to handle these situations.

The real problem is that the original sexual which was reported on campus was ignored by the university, and none of this might have happened if the university had properly addressed the sexual assault! Instead, Stanford, Dartmouth, and a host of other universities have broken extralegal disciplinary processes that do nothing but serve the university and its PR. Imagine if the original assailant had been punished? Instead he’s walking free and a girl who stood up for her friend was dragged into a convoluted, opaque system of punishment.

Adults don’t “stand up for their friends” by committing assault (yes, that’s what it is) and deliberately burning someone with a hot liquid. No. Sorry.

This could only be posted by a man, because I have known multiple adult women in college and grad school who, facing inaction by a university, threw a beer, a plate of dining hall food, trash, etc. at the assailant of their friend. Sometimes the only option left to show in public that friends will stand up for their victimized friend is a petty and stupid but very public act- like the coffee thing. And if you knew anything about Stanford biking culture, the layout of campus, and the fact that most athletes know each other at least by face, this would seem so much less “shocking” to you.

Six days later is plenty of time for cooler heads to prevail. I don’t think people would be defending a male athlete throwing hot coffee on a female athlete for some perceived wrongdoing that had been investigated and dropped by two different investigatory agencies.

Yes. Women should just get over a sexual assault in less than a week.

I only saw one investigatory agency. And interesting they felt they could investigate and make a decision on the football player in less than a week, but the soccer player has it drag on for six months

Where are you getting that the investigation into the football player was over in a week? I haven’t seen that anywhere.

I saw somewhere that it was reported 8/21 and the coffee happened 8/28…but am a little confused about that because it is weird it would be resolved so quickly.

Odds are the football player assault was not resolved in 6 days.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I don’t think people would be defending a male athlete throwing hot coffee on a female athlete for some perceived wrongdoing that had been investigated and dropped by two different investigatory agencies.

That's not the issue. Throwing hot coffee on another person is not defensible.

The concern is how the university handled that transgression. Was it overly punitive? Was it appropriate to threaten removal of her degree? Is it fair that other students who commit physical assault don't face similar consequences? Should her previously clean disciplinary record (3+ years on campus) be considered? Should their knowledge that she was seeking therapy factor into how they delivered this news? Was it necessary to draw out the process for six months and deliver the threat of expulsion within hours of the filing deadline? Was there appropriate due process? And the bigger question...did the sum of their actions contribute to her death?

Stanford's OCR judicial process was under scrutiny for over 10 years prior to this incident. Reforms were recommended. It seems many of those reforms were not implemented.

I'm not sure the university will be held accountable, but one can hope this leads to reform of their disciplinary process. This is a life that could have been saved with a different approach...that's the real tragedy here.

Can you please give examples on how it was overly punitive? I read the complaint and I don’t see it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder how many men accused of sexual assault at Stanford received an email threatening to withhold their diploma? I would be shocked if it were any. Certainly if a woman decides not to file a complaint, there is no discipline.

Meanwhile, she spills coffee. He doesn’t file a complaint. And Stanford still goes for the nuclear option. That’s an absurd over reaction. Did they learn nothing from Brock Turner?

I’m so furious. I was part of a similar incident at Dartmouth. The deans tried to push me into the campus disciplinary system and were pissed when I went to the Hanover police and asked to press charges. I was repeatedly asked by an administrator responsible for my access to course registration and on-campus job recruiting to drop the charges because it would be “better” to deal with it on campus. For them.

In the end, I stayed on campus during a break to testify in court. Unfortunately the prosecutor accepted a plea deal the day before. The incident- in which I had done nothing- ultimately affected my recruiting and my life after graduation.

Rest in peace, Katie Meyer. I hate what they did to her and respect her so much- anyone who doesn’t understand the power an institution has over its students in this kind of scenario is ignorant and naive. I wish they hadn’t cornered her like this.

How is this remotely similar? You were the victim, Katie was alleged to be the assailant.

The point is that universities should NOT be allowed to handle these situations.

The real problem is that the original sexual which was reported on campus was ignored by the university, and none of this might have happened if the university had properly addressed the sexual assault! Instead, Stanford, Dartmouth, and a host of other universities have broken extralegal disciplinary processes that do nothing but serve the university and its PR. Imagine if the original assailant had been punished? Instead he’s walking free and a girl who stood up for her friend was dragged into a convoluted, opaque system of punishment.

Adults don’t “stand up for their friends” by committing assault (yes, that’s what it is) and deliberately burning someone with a hot liquid. No. Sorry.

This could only be posted by a man, because I have known multiple adult women in college and grad school who, facing inaction by a university, threw a beer, a plate of dining hall food, trash, etc. at the assailant of their friend. Sometimes the only option left to show in public that friends will stand up for their victimized friend is a petty and stupid but very public act- like the coffee thing. And if you knew anything about Stanford biking culture, the layout of campus, and the fact that most athletes know each other at least by face, this would seem so much less “shocking” to you.

Six days later is plenty of time for cooler heads to prevail. I don’t think people would be defending a male athlete throwing hot coffee on a female athlete for some perceived wrongdoing that had been investigated and dropped by two different investigatory agencies.

Yes. Women should just get over a sexual assault in less than a week.

I only saw one investigatory agency. And interesting they felt they could investigate and make a decision on the football player in less than a week, but the soccer player has it drag on for six months

It was reported to the police and Stanford, there were two separate investigations.

Was if reported to the police? I did nor see that anywhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Stanford should be held liable for this. Utterly callous and negligent. Young adults when put in vulnerable positions aren’t in a position to think rationally. Their brains are not fully developed yet.

What’s more shocking is Stanford’s reaction to this. A family lost their daughter forever!

I am amazed at their callous treatment of her - she was a goalie for their women’s soccer team. Where were the coaches? There were no faculty/coaches looped in or supporting her?

Exactly. No one was there for her. I get she was an adult but still she was vulnerable and let Stanford know that in many formats. I am not condoning her actions (assuming it was not an accident). But there was context and also she earned the right to make a mistake. After all she did for the school, she deserved someone there supporting her. I don’t think $10m is enough.

I’m just curious if posters like you would say the same if the roles were reversed. A man throws coffee on a woman he perceives to have wrong a friend of his, and he injures her in some way. Would you expect the university to provide him with “support” while they investigated his actions?

Yes, I absolutely would. All the students deserve support. And even more so if they were a 4 year role model with stellar record and the “wronging” of friend was sexual in nature. Question for you— why was the boys mother involved but Katie’s parent never brought in? This did not need to escalate in the manner it did and it is the University’s fault. Again, wrong of her but the punitive action of the school was abhorrent.