What can be done to level the playing field?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dc prep and kipp get results from lower ses kids

It's mainly drill and kill which is needed when folks are so far behind

The end goal is foolish you are advocating for communism ina capitalistic society

Those kids largely fail at college or if they go to another prep school for high school.

Signed,
Former boarding school teacher who saw every KIPP kid fail within 2 years. Not their fault even, but you can’t handhold to that extent and then throw them in the deep end. They need to be thrown in the deep end so to speak before leaving KIPP to make sure they can do it on their own, but then KIPP would rarely have any kids leave them.

Those kids don't have the aptitude for college and a college prep high school model in the first place. High school should be a trades based education. DC Prep and KIPP keep those kids from getting into trouble by providing structure and teaching the basics so those kids have a shot at a productive life instead of continuing the cycle of poverty.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dc prep and kipp get results from lower ses kids

It's mainly drill and kill which is needed when folks are so far behind

The end goal is foolish you are advocating for communism ina capitalistic society

Those kids largely fail at college or if they go to another prep school for high school.

Signed,
Former boarding school teacher who saw every KIPP kid fail within 2 years. Not their fault even, but you can’t handhold to that extent and then throw them in the deep end. They need to be thrown in the deep end so to speak before leaving KIPP to make sure they can do it on their own, but then KIPP would rarely have any kids leave them.

Those kids don't have the aptitude for college and a college prep high school model in the first place. High school should be a trades based education. DC Prep and KIPP keep those kids from getting into trouble by providing structure and teaching the basics so those kids have a shot at a productive life instead of continuing the cycle of poverty.

Not everyone has to go to college. There should be more trade and vocational high schools. I do think the US should place kids into tracks in high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Whenever schools are mentioned and equity is mentioned, it always seems to be for African Americans. No other ethnic group struggles the way this group does.

I have seen African immigrants excel. I have seen uneducated refugees from all over the world work hard and succeed. The US has so many opportunities. You have to take advantage of the opportunities.

I wonder why that could possibly be....what have African Americans experienced that no other ethnic group has... let's think....

Oh please. Slavery ended 150+ years ago. Some of these new immigrants come from war zones, had family members murdered and lived in abject poverty that doesn’t exist in the US.

you do realize after slavery there was Jim Crow and extreme segregation?

interracial marriage was not legalized in alabama until 2000.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Whenever schools are mentioned and equity is mentioned, it always seems to be for African Americans. No other ethnic group struggles the way this group does.

I have seen African immigrants excel. I have seen uneducated refugees from all over the world work hard and succeed. The US has so many opportunities. You have to take advantage of the opportunities.

Because people who descended from slavery have generations of trauma epigenetically encoded into their genome.
Even when slaves were freed, they were sent out with no money to survive on their own in a country that still treated them as subhuman. Family networks so critical to survival were not intact.. Slaves weren’t taught to read, so of course they weren’t reading books to their kids. Poverty itself affects brain development. It’s a very deep hole to try to climb out of.

You need to do a bit more in-depth research on each of these assertions before you try to design education policy.

Education and social science are science devoid of scientific rigor. The lack of standards makes statements like "Because people who descended from slavery have generations of trauma epigenetically encoded into their genome" possible

Agree with you, especially about education. And agree that these statements are ridiculous. But social science research is necessary because we are human. It is clear that much of the "conventional wisdom" right now has no basis in research.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Whenever schools are mentioned and equity is mentioned, it always seems to be for African Americans. No other ethnic group struggles the way this group does.

I have seen African immigrants excel. I have seen uneducated refugees from all over the world work hard and succeed. The US has so many opportunities. You have to take advantage of the opportunities.

I wonder why that could possibly be....what have African Americans experienced that no other ethnic group has... let's think....

Interesting how school performance correlates amazingly well with percentage of births to unmarried women in the U.S.:
Blacks - 69.4 percent;
American Indians/Alaska Natives - 68.2 percent
Hispanics, 51.8 percent
Whites, 28.2 percent;
Asians, 11.7 percent.

Data from 2018.

And other data on children in single-parent families by race...
https://datacenter.kidscount.org/data/tables/107-children-in-single-parent-families-by-race#detailed/1/any/false/1729,37,871,870,573,869,36,868,867,133/10,11,9,12,1,185,13/432,431

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Whenever schools are mentioned and equity is mentioned, it always seems to be for African Americans. No other ethnic group struggles the way this group does.

I have seen African immigrants excel. I have seen uneducated refugees from all over the world work hard and succeed. The US has so many opportunities. You have to take advantage of the opportunities.

I wonder why that could possibly be....what have African Americans experienced that no other ethnic group has... let's think....

Oh please. Slavery ended 150+ years ago. Some of these new immigrants come from war zones, had family members murdered and lived in abject poverty that doesn’t exist in the US.

you do realize after slavery there was Jim Crow and extreme segregation?

interracial marriage was not legalized in alabama until 2000.

You do realize that there was a thriving black professional class and well educated black people during segregation? The social problems happened later...

[Anonymous]

Children out of wedlock or no dad families seem at most risk.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Children out of wedlock or no dad families seem at most risk.

You need to look at other demographics. I had a child out of wedlock. Sometimes birth control doesn't work. I had my Master's degree at the time. I raised my DS alone. His father was semi involved until he got married and moved away. My DS is in college at Fordham and doing well. Look at the mother's educational level. That's usually the driving force behind the academic success of the child. Not all single mothers are poor and hopeless.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Children out of wedlock or no dad families seem at most risk.

You need to look at other demographics. I had a child out of wedlock. Sometimes birth control doesn't work. I had my Master's degree at the time. I raised my DS alone. His father was semi involved until he got married and moved away. My DS is in college at Fordham and doing well. Look at the mother's educational level. That's usually the driving force behind the academic success of the child. Not all single mothers are poor and hopeless.

You are an anecdote, not data.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Children out of wedlock or no dad families seem at most risk.

You need to look at other demographics. I had a child out of wedlock. Sometimes birth control doesn't work. I had my Master's degree at the time. I raised my DS alone. His father was semi involved until he got married and moved away. My DS is in college at Fordham and doing well. Look at the mother's educational level. That's usually the driving force behind the academic success of the child. Not all single mothers are poor and hopeless.

You are an anecdote, not data.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t see what’s really wrong with closing the achievement gap from the top down.

Virtually all the people at the top benefited from unearned privilege.

OMG - you can't possibly be this racist and stupid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Children out of wedlock or no dad families seem at most risk.

You need to look at other demographics. I had a child out of wedlock. Sometimes birth control doesn't work. I had my Master's degree at the time. I raised my DS alone. His father was semi involved until he got married and moved away. My DS is in college at Fordham and doing well. Look at the mother's educational level. That's usually the driving force behind the academic success of the child. Not all single mothers are poor and hopeless.

You are an anecdote, not data.

+100

I am from a single mother home. Mother had addiction problems. She barely finished high school. I am successful - two top 10 schools with honors and a NCAA All American (D1). On my own since 18. I am an anecdote and a relatively rare one. I attribute my lot in life to genetic luck - not just in athletics but my make up is such I had zero desire to drink or do drugs. Plus physically I was enough of a dork to delay having relationships with women until I was mature. Bear in mind my anecdote could have easily gone the others way. Two caring parents is overwhelmingly the best route. Empirically is seems beyond question.

How we tackle the single parent issue is challenging (it is not easy to talk about). A study in Philadelphia 15 years ago that single mothers in the challenging communities actually really valued marriage. They just found little practical way to act on it. The decline of acceptable wage labor positions may be more significant than it first appears.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Schools cannot overcome the parental advantage/ disadvantage faced by kids 18 hours a day outside of school. You cannot just throw $ at the problem.

You can but it has to be A LOT of $.
Like, classes of 10 with 2 teachers, extensive mental health services, extensive hands on learning, mentoring, nutrition services etc.
Effectively a boarding school without spending the night so that you can avoid calling it that.

Cities that are predominantly low income and/or immigrants typically have programs or schools specifically for students who are eager to excel but their local schools don’t have what it takes. There’s one in Boston all year round including Saturdays. Tuition free. It’s a small school and these kids from the worst neighborhoods do very well and 100% of them go to college.

I have a feeling there’s not much in the red states but the blue states do try and address the unfairness that some children who go to dilapidated schools with no resources.

There need to be hundreds of these schools to give kids a chance who otherwise would not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How about closing the achievement gap from the top down by eliminating so-called “gifted and talented” programs like NYC has done?

I would suggest going the opposite direction and try to meet all children where they are when possible.

But the GT programs are elitist and cater only to the privileged.

I guess that's one way of looking at it. Another is meeting each kid where they are to ensure all children receive an appropriate education.

99% of the kids identified as gifted are not gifted they are smart and will do fine in elementary school. They will work faster in middle school. They will take all AP classes and go to college.

The truly gifted minority will easily find a scholarship to a private school because they are rare.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Schools cannot overcome the parental advantage/ disadvantage faced by kids 18 hours a day outside of school. You cannot just throw $ at the problem.

You can but it has to be A LOT of $.
Like, classes of 10 with 2 teachers, extensive mental health services, extensive hands on learning, mentoring, nutrition services etc.
Effectively a boarding school without spending the night so that you can avoid calling it that.

The government cannot provide this level of parenting