She said, he said, but he has proof

[Anonymous]

This is a dumb assignment to use a plagarism check for.
I’m a lawyer that writes these policies for companies. We all basically take the standards model language from internet sources (some of which he may have used such as SHrM, others of which would not be easily accessible to a non lawyer) and then edit for our particular client’s needs. You can’t ask someone to write a form policy and then ding them because their form policy follows the form.
This is a ridiculous application of plagiarism—you would not want a policy where people put things in their own words. The whole point of a policy is to use certain standard accepted terms so there is no later dispute about meaning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kids aren’t old enough to use plagiarism checkers yet but I’m shocked that common phrases like “in accordance with American Disabilities Act” or “sexual harassment” could be flagged. How is the possible? That’s not plagiarism and using something that would flag these common errors seems like a terrible policy. If what you say is true, I truly hope it can be resolved in time. It’s totally appropriate to seek a parent’s advice when faced with an untrue accusation like this. If the facts in your OP are true, I really wish you the beet of luck and wish I had some actual advice for you.

Reputable checkers used appropriately work well. There are free things ones that over-call things like “Paris, the capital of France...” and then, ironically, try to sell a student a paper that comes up unplagarized. Also, good teachers (using good checkers) use them as a flag to investigate further not as an Oracle to pronounce judgement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:That sounds like a bad assignment and he should know to include works cited if he’s essentially using quotes regardless of rubric. However, the teacher sounds like she has no understanding of what plagiarism is if she thinks it can be identified by a subpar checker and then fixed in 10 minutes. If it was accurately picking up plagiarism the papers should be rewritten, not reworded.

Yeah, he’s a senior AND has had this teacher three years already. He should be able to avoid plagiarizing without an explicit instruction to not plagiarize.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:She has dug in. She is not going to back down no matter what evidence he provides. Some teachers are cray cray.

My kids never had a single issue except for one teacher..and boy she was cray. I later found out there was quite a precedent with other students. I’m not sure what was happening in her personal life, but she got nuttier.

Kinda like an overzealous cop who takes out a ruler to ticket you for parking too far from the curb. Or the ER doctor who runs pregnancy tests on every female between 11 and 60, even those who say they are lesbians or celibate. There are hard asses in every field, but if the person follows procedure without unfairly singling out individuals or racial/ethnic subgroups, you probably don’t have a leg to stand on.

[Anonymous]

This is DC, land of frivoulous lawsuits. That's why doctors cover their asses and so do others. Lesson learned. Works cited even if it isn't required. Instead of works cited, it can be renamed "covering your ass."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kids aren’t old enough to use plagiarism checkers yet but I’m shocked that common phrases like “in accordance with American Disabilities Act” or “sexual harassment” could be flagged. How is the possible? That’s not plagiarism and using something that would flag these common errors seems like a terrible policy. If what you say is true, I truly hope it can be resolved in time. It’s totally appropriate to seek a parent’s advice when faced with an untrue accusation like this. If the facts in your OP are true, I really wish you the beet of luck and wish I had some actual advice for you.

Plagarism checkers are very dumb and more than four or five matching words gets flagged. If you write about any popular topic, plagarism checkers will find these issues. If the teacher is taking the score from the checker without examining the findings, the teacher is using the tool incorrectly. Plagarism checkers will flag properly cited quotes because they match. It's really that dumb.

[Anonymous]

I would let it go because he dropped from a high A to a low A. Doesn’t his transcript just show overall letter grade?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That sounds like a bad assignment and he should know to include works cited if he’s essentially using quotes regardless of rubric. However, the teacher sounds like she has no understanding of what plagiarism is if she thinks it can be identified by a subpar checker and then fixed in 10 minutes. If it was accurately picking up plagiarism the papers should be rewritten, not reworded.

He used quotes when given that final 20 minutes. Rubric didn't require works cited (though he does this for many assignments). What he did was state a policy, and include, "In accordance with Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990"

Rubric may not have required works cited, but if you cite someone else's work (even the American Disabilities Act), you need to include a works cited. If you continue to make excuses for him, as others have pointed out, he will figure it out the hard way in college.

[Anonymous]

It sounds to me like an older teacher who doesn’t understand modern tech. The program told her he plagiarized, and she sounds like she feels betrayed. I can see her not understanding why the program would be wrong. So sorry your DC lost NHS. To me, that’s worse than the grade drop. I would escalate since it’s a COVID issue. During a regular year, he could have finished up after school.

[Anonymous]

He should have known NOT to plagiarize without her explicitly stating it, especially since he is a Senior. Of course he should have been citing everything. I mean, perhaps a 5th- or 6th-grade student I can see this being a discussion point but for a high school senior? Honestly it sounds like he (and you, OP) are trying to take advantage of the longtime relationship.

[Anonymous]

Thanks to all of you who posted support and snarky.
I'll avoid requoting and answer.

Yes, mid year report is an average so a 94. He needed the 98 to balance out his overall GPA. But, he didn't push back on the zero. He offered alternatives, and maybe he shouldn't have. Initially, it was supposed to be a test grade, but she changed it to a project grade (less weight). The final corrected project was pushed to 3rd quarter, as a test grade (moving goal post).

He offered to take the zero test grade for 3rd quarter and balance it out. This may not have been received very well. He also offered to give up her nomination for an excellence award/scholarship. He told her how appreciative he is, but other students are as well. She adamantly said no, but then retracted it anyway (double jeopardy). I told him to keep his head low, shut up and carry on. She kind of forced him into a discussion in person. He calmly told her that he never deliberately plagiarized, stood his ground, showed her proof, supports her early morning tech issues, and he's chair of her advisory board. Now, I don't know if he pushed too far. He really is extremely polite and respectful. The next day she escalated it. Retracted nomination, threatened NHS, and no further reference letters (not sure what this means).

He didn't receive one consequence or two, but four! It makes no sense. He isn't a grade grubber. He tried to do damage control. She has always been strict. He knows her MO. He called her out on emails not received, and told her he must be an idiot to have handed in plagiarized work, and if she wanted him to rewrite actual laws.

Honestly, I'm freaking out that she'll retract college LORs. I don't want to mention it to him. But, I told him we should send deposit for his EA safety now. All apps for RD being reviewed now. Could she call colleges and retract? He has 5 teacher LORs, and chose which ones for each college. He used hers for specific schools.

Yaay effin senior year! He's deflated. They had a very strong relationship.

[Anonymous]

What does “he’s chair of her advisory board” mean?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What does “he’s chair of her advisory board” mean?

Chairperson for Business Advisory Board.

Gd, I've had way too much coffee today. I'm not making excuses for him. And, pp is right. He overstepped their relationship. He writes business stuff all the time. He has an internship and edits business plans for start ups and manages a hub for starups.

I've read the emails (he forwarded). Not a drop of disrespect. He apologized, wrote with all due respect and expressed his panic. He's 17, not an excuse, but give a little grace, no?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thanks to all of you who posted support and snarky.
I'll avoid requoting and answer.

Yes, mid year report is an average so a 94. He needed the 98 to balance out his overall GPA. But, he didn't push back on the zero. He offered alternatives, and maybe he shouldn't have. Initially, it was supposed to be a test grade, but she changed it to a project grade (less weight). The final corrected project was pushed to 3rd quarter, as a test grade (moving goal post).

He offered to take the zero test grade for 3rd quarter and balance it out. This may not have been received very well. He also offered to give up her nomination for an excellence award/scholarship. He told her how appreciative he is, but other students are as well. She adamantly said no, but then retracted it anyway (double jeopardy). I told him to keep his head low, shut up and carry on. She kind of forced him into a discussion in person. He calmly told her that he never deliberately plagiarized, stood his ground, showed her proof, supports her early morning tech issues, and he's chair of her advisory board. Now, I don't know if he pushed too far. He really is extremely polite and respectful. The next day she escalated it. Retracted nomination, threatened NHS, and no further reference letters (not sure what this means).

He didn't receive one consequence or two, but four! It makes no sense. He isn't a grade grubber. He tried to do damage control. She has always been strict. He knows her MO. He called her out on emails not received, and told her he must be an idiot to have handed in plagiarized work, and if she wanted him to rewrite actual laws.

Honestly, I'm freaking out that she'll retract college LORs. I don't want to mention it to him. But, I told him we should send deposit for his EA safety now. All apps for RD being reviewed now. Could she call colleges and retract? He has 5 teacher LORs, and chose which ones for each college. He used hers for specific schools.

Yaay effin senior year! He's deflated. They had a very strong relationship.

He never "deliberately" plagiarized. That won't cut it in college. It will be an honors violation at most schools and he will be expelled. It is good he is learning this lesson in high school and not in college when the stakes are higher.

OP, your son is fortunate that the teacher isn't pushing it and asking for the plagiarism to be added to his academic record. All in all he may be "deflated" but he is very, very, VERY lucky that the teacher isn't taking this to the max. You should be reinforcing that.

I feel badly for the teacher that he (and you, apparently) were hoping that the "strong relationship" would mean that his actions wouldn't have consequences.

[Anonymous]

That does not sound like a respectful dialogue, honestly, especially the “must be an idiot” and “expect to rewrite laws” stuff. He needs to apologize and accept the results.