Dual language when DC already fluent in both languages?

[Anonymous]

DS was in a 2 way immersion program in FL that had some Spanish speakers but nowhere close to 50% (maybe 20%?). It was good for us, and most of the families in the program loved it - both the native English and native Spanish speakers. There were also a few Haitian kids in the program, so they came in with 2 languages, just not Spanish.

The biggest problem with the program was that because there was only 50% of the instructional time in each child's native language, kids who were gifted and advanced readers in K tended to do just fine, but some kids were struggling with learning the basic curriculum material in their native language. So we ended up with a lot of the English speaking kids needing phonics help for reading in English, math help for mastering basics of 2nd and 3rd grade math, etc. By the time they got to 4th grade a lot of the Spanish instruction time was being taken over by test prep for the state standardized testing because those test scores mattered more to the administration than Spanish fluency in the dual language program.

I actually put DS in the dual language program because he was reading before K and we thought it would be a good challenge for him and keep him from getting bored. They moved at a pretty quick pace and I didn't get the impression that the native speakers were bored sitting through the immersion parts in their native languages - it was just K or 1st in their native language. It also really helps to have kids who speak fluently, so your DS isn't going to be sitting reading to himself or anything while the others are learning to count and say hello, etc.

[Anonymous]

My kids have all done a dual immersion program (Spanish) for K-5. My youngest is currently in 4th. We are not native speakers.

There have always been a few kids in their classes that are fluent Spanish speakers, and far more who have at least one Spanish speaking parent so have some exposure at home.

I can’t speak from their perspective, but I do know that the fluent speakers tend to be leaders in the classroom (for obvious reasons) and develop some leadership skills.

All of the native speaking families I know have been thrilled with the program.

At our school the curriculum for dual immersion is really no different from English-only. The only real difference is half the subjects are taught in Spanish from day one. This rotates somewhat by year. All K-5 have English Language Arts. All immersion students also have “Spanish” as one of their specials (two days a week I think)- this is with a designated Spanish teacher where they work in grammar and vocab

[Anonymous]

Thank you so much to the two PPs who just posted! This is very helpful!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess I’m wondering what’s the point for your kid if he’s already bilingual in those languages? Save the spot for a kid who really wants to learn.

Op here. DC will lose the target language and likely end up speaking only English unless we keep reinforcing the target language.

You're worried your DC will be bored if they attend but think they will lose the target language if they don't attend?

Yes, but won’t DC also be learning the ENTIRE Kindergarten curriculum? Math? Reading? Writing? Science and Social Studies? Is he already on the first grade level in everything? Since the school is excited, and they know the program better than anyone, I would bring up your concern to them. Personally, I would send him.

Op here. I haven’t seen it in action. In kinder they teach 90% in the target language but over 95% of the students in the class dont speak it at all. So I assume they must do something to try and accommodate that. And I worry DC will be bored/frustrated.

[Anonymous]

I’m poster 09:36 and wanted to add a few things, as I was in a rush before...

I wanted to add that in our dual immersion program (Spanish) there is actually NOT specific “Spanish instruction” in the regular classroom. They don’t sit and go over vocabulary and grammar. Instead, they quite simply teach the regular curriculum in Spanish for the designated subjects. The English speaking kids catch on FAST and the native speakers aren’t bored- they are learning the same exact things they’d learn in English only. For example, for Science- the teacher just teaches the normal lesson in Spanish and the English only speakers are expected to catch on- and they DO. They do use techniques like repetition, visual cues, hand gestures as needed, and the kids are allowed to ask politely (in Spanish) the English word but are discouraged from doing so frequently. Classroom rules etc same thing- they are spoken in Spanish from day one on an age appropriate level and the kids catch on. For example in K the teacher will say each morning “good morning!! Please place yourself backpack in your cubby (gestures) and have a seat on the rug (gestures)” the kids catch on after one day. The non Spanish speakers often take cues and follow along with the Spanish speaking kids at first (very helpful) if they are not sure.

There is zero time spent on Spanish grammar and vocab in their regular classroom- beyond what they are learning organically through their instruction. Grammar and vocab is focused on in their twice weekly “special” (just like art music etc) with a designated Spanish teacher who provides additional instruction.

At our school K-5 has a teaching team (two teachers)- one teaches in Spanish only, the other in English. The teachers flip flop classes mid-day. So Group A has Spanish teacher in the AM while Group B has English. They switch mid days & the classrooms are connected with an office in between. Most communication (for all 40 or so kids- two classrooms) comes from BOTH teachers jointly.

Hope that helps some. My oldest two completed this program and are now in middle school. In MS they are in a Spanish class for native speakers (which they tested into on a skills assessment before starting MS) but the rest of their classes are in English.

[Anonymous]

What language?

Since you and your husband are not native speakers, I think it would likely be useful to have your kid in an immersive environment. Do you have weekend language school as an alternative?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can you tell me how it went? Was your DC bored?

For the dual language program I am looking at, DS will be the only child in the class who knows both languages.

I’m attracted to the program because I want him to keep both languages but I’m worried he will be bored.

We don’t live in DC and bilingual kindergarteners are not common here, so the program doesn’t have many kids like DS.

Would love to hear your experiences!

Is it two way immersion, designed to have speakers of both languages, or is it designed to be one way? Because it doesn't make sense to put a native speaker in the latter.

Op here. It’s Two way immersion, but all the kids in the class speak English and none speak the target language (at best, a handful might know a little of the target language but they are all English dominant).

The school claims that it works, but it takes 6 years for the kids to learn the target language.

I’m not in DC. In an ideal environment you’d have half native English speakers and half native speakers of the target language, but that’s not possible for a variety of reasons in my state.

I guess I would try to talk to other families who have been at the school. My kid is in 4th as a predominantly english-speaker in a dual language program. What you are describing doesn't sound very appealing to me. I wouldn't want my kid doing 90% in one language for the early grades, I really prefer dual, and the strengths I see in my child's school are that it truly functions bilingually which helps the kids build their skills.

[Anonymous]

Op here. It starts out 90% in target language in kinder, with that percentage gradually going down until it reaches 50/50 in 4th or 5th.

This is how most (actually I think all) dual language programs are set up in the school district where we will be living.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m poster 09:36 and wanted to add a few things, as I was in a rush before...

I wanted to add that in our dual immersion program (Spanish) there is actually NOT specific “Spanish instruction” in the regular classroom. They don’t sit and go over vocabulary and grammar. Instead, they quite simply teach the regular curriculum in Spanish for the designated subjects. The English speaking kids catch on FAST and the native speakers aren’t bored- they are learning the same exact things they’d learn in English only. For example, for Science- the teacher just teaches the normal lesson in Spanish and the English only speakers are expected to catch on- and they DO. They do use techniques like repetition, visual cues, hand gestures as needed, and the kids are allowed to ask politely (in Spanish) the English word but are discouraged from doing so frequently. Classroom rules etc same thing- they are spoken in Spanish from day one on an age appropriate level and the kids catch on. For example in K the teacher will say each morning “good morning!! Please place yourself backpack in your cubby (gestures) and have a seat on the rug (gestures)” the kids catch on after one day. The non Spanish speakers often take cues and follow along with the Spanish speaking kids at first (very helpful) if they are not sure.

There is zero time spent on Spanish grammar and vocab in their regular classroom- beyond what they are learning organically through their instruction. Grammar and vocab is focused on in their twice weekly “special” (just like art music etc) with a designated Spanish teacher who provides additional instruction.

At our school K-5 has a teaching team (two teachers)- one teaches in Spanish only, the other in English. The teachers flip flop classes mid-day. So Group A has Spanish teacher in the AM while Group B has English. They switch mid days & the classrooms are connected with an office in between. Most communication (for all 40 or so kids- two classrooms) comes from BOTH teachers jointly.

Hope that helps some. My oldest two completed this program and are now in middle school. In MS they are in a Spanish class for native speakers (which they tested into on a skills assessment before starting MS) but the rest of their classes are in English.

Exactly. They learn the Kindergarten curriculum IN Spanish.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What language?

Since you and your husband are not native speakers, I think it would likely be useful to have your kid in an immersive environment. Do you have weekend language school as an alternative?

This. We decided not to do an immersion program for our two kids who are dual language, but instead to do weekend classes with other native kids where they learn reading, writing, grammar, etc.

[Anonymous]

My son is in a Spanish immersion program (preK-3 last year), virtual prek-4 this year. He is a simultaneous bilingual (Dad speaks Spanish only to him) plus he was in an in-home daycare where only Spanish was spoken. His spanish immersion program tries to get at least 1/3 native speakers but struggles to get that number. The ones they have are also somewhat passive in their understanding (meaning they don't actually speak in Spanish much.) His class this year actually has a few more (I only know this from some spying on online class where my son actually barely speaks as well even though he is extremely fluent.)

Anyway all that to say is I am sure there are a few times he is a bit bored, but they are learning things hes needs to learn anyway as he is only 3-4 years old. Having a child be bilingual is extremely hard in the US and it is a huge goal of ours to do everything we can to keep him bilingual. If your child is not in a setting where he is getting the language, he will lose much of it in a year (not that he cant get it back.) So if you want him to keep up the language, then definitely need to be in Dual LAnguage.

[Anonymous]

My kids were learning Spanish and Japanese at Preply. They did it before courses, so they got a good base for that. If you want to educate your children or yourself - I can truly recommend you this platform. I am studying French there now and it seems successful.

[Anonymous]

NP here hoping some longer view info may also be helpful. We are in the DC area. Our DCs Did some years in two way immersion and more recent years in Saturday school for native level speakers. The Saturday school has given really useful background on the arc of 2nd language acquisition. Here is my attempt to summarize that. It is built in to our brains to prune out unused language skills right around age 6. So if you can keep going past that, the 2nd (3rd, etc.) language remains accessible at some level for life. Many younger children speak at a native level but never become literate. Research shows doing the additional work to become literate is what really deepens the learning and skill levels. Becoming literate also greatly enhances the likelihood of your children's children learning the language. If the parents show interest and support that helps carry the kids forward in the language until around 4th/5th grade. Then very helpful to push them to stick with it... and by the time they are in middle school and focusing on peers instead of immediate family, skills in another language become socially desirable in a way that makes them want to keep going.

This is how it has gone for our DS and seems to be going for our younger DD.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can you tell me how it went? Was your DC bored?

For the dual language program I am looking at, DS will be the only child in the class who knows both languages.

I’m attracted to the program because I want him to keep both languages but I’m worried he will be bored.

We don’t live in DC and bilingual kindergarteners are not common here, so the program doesn’t have many kids like DS.

Would love to hear your experiences!

How do you know he will be the only child knowing both languages?
Do you personally know every other child in his class already?

[Anonymous]

My sister speaks Chinese natively, her husband speaks English native. Their children are bilingual, but they both did a Mandarin/English immersion program.

They said the good bit was that the children learned the actual grammar mechanics (?) of both languages, rather than just memorizing 'how it is said'. Even my sister said she learned a few things about both languages watching how the kids were formally learning them.

On the bad side, they felt learning everything twice basically (in English and Chinese) consumed quite a bit of time that could have been spent doing other things like extra curricular or something else. They did question if it was worth the time, as the kids probably would have been native in English and basically native in Chinese (especially if they took Chinese in university).