Fed HR refusing to promote me to GS-13

Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:yup pmf here too and you're screwed. as an anecdote i got hired as a gs9 from law school (two weeks earlier someone with a masters got in at gs11 based on school years). then i was gona try of accelerated promotion but then that was gone too. then the position was not gs13 anymore just gs12. so i just took a detail at another agency, stayed, did awesome, and converted there with a gs14 scale. goodluck but i'd move from this agency, if they're not trying to help it won't happen.


The bolded doesn't make sense to me. How could someone with a masters come in at GS11 from the PMF program?


Haha ask FEMA HR that. Can you tell I’m still bitter af? I saw that guys leave and earning statement myself, no work experience. What I’m saying is the rules are arbitrary and you’re your only advocate.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:yup pmf here too and you're screwed. as an anecdote i got hired as a gs9 from law school (two weeks earlier someone with a masters got in at gs11 based on school years). then i was gona try of accelerated promotion but then that was gone too. then the position was not gs13 anymore just gs12. so i just took a detail at another agency, stayed, did awesome, and converted there with a gs14 scale. goodluck but i'd move from this agency, if they're not trying to help it won't happen.


The bolded doesn't make sense to me. How could someone with a masters come in at GS11 from the PMF program?


Haha ask FEMA HR that. Can you tell I’m still bitter af? I saw that guys leave and earning statement myself, no work experience. What I’m saying is the rules are arbitrary and you’re your only advocate.


NP everyone knows FEMA is the worst. Glad you got out! I've heard many horror stories.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Are you sure the job really has promotion potential to the 13? Double check your PD and the announcement (or your application in USAJOBS). If this was truly an error when you were hired, they need to fix it.


I am a PMF and I did not apply through USAjobs. The PMF program is 3 years and is supposed to go GS9 the first year, then GS11, then GS12. My understanding is only PHDs end the PMF with a 13. What my supervisor told me, over and over and over again, was that my job has promotion potential to GS 13. Everyone else in my team and everyone else who has been in my team is a GS 13. Where there were once 2 GS 13s and a GS14 team lead in my team, now there is just me, a GS12. It is not exactly fair.

I would like a new job... but there is not exactly a lot of hiring going on. Things just seem very dysfunctional and I guess it is just time for a career change and time to move on from government. I am 33 years old and half the agency seems like they're at the appropriate age to retire, but I can't really move up this way.


Are you at State by chance? While your position itself may be in a career ladder (i.e. promotion potential to a GS-13), the PMF program is by nature excepted service and at least where I am, ends at conversion at the GS-12 level. You were not hired into that specific career ladder but a PMF excepted service PD. So, you individually are not automatically eligible for non-competitive promotion to the top of that career ladder. You can absolutely compete for it under normal circumstances - this hiring freeze is not a normal environment. I’m sorry but that’s just the way it is. They’re not wrong.
Anonymous
Also, the hiring freeze has demeaned ALL of us for the past year and a half. I personally know dozens of people including myself who have been barred from competitive promotions they’d otherwise easily get, and we’re totally short-staffed everywhere. There’s just nothing you can do but wait. We are all in the same boat.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Are you sure the job really has promotion potential to the 13? Double check your PD and the announcement (or your application in USAJOBS). If this was truly an error when you were hired, they need to fix it.


I am a PMF and I did not apply through USAjobs. The PMF program is 3 years and is supposed to go GS9 the first year, then GS11, then GS12. My understanding is only PHDs end the PMF with a 13. What my supervisor told me, over and over and over again, was that my job has promotion potential to GS 13. Everyone else in my team and everyone else who has been in my team is a GS 13. Where there were once 2 GS 13s and a GS14 team lead in my team, now there is just me, a GS12. It is not exactly fair.

I would like a new job... but there is not exactly a lot of hiring going on. Things just seem very dysfunctional and I guess it is just time for a career change and time to move on from government. I am 33 years old and half the agency seems like they're at the appropriate age to retire, but I can't really move up this way.


Are you at State by chance? While your position itself may be in a career ladder (i.e. promotion potential to a GS-13), the PMF program is by nature excepted service and at least where I am, ends at conversion at the GS-12 level. You were not hired into that specific career ladder but a PMF excepted service PD. So, you individually are not automatically eligible for non-competitive promotion to the top of that career ladder. You can absolutely compete for it under normal circumstances - this hiring freeze is not a normal environment. I’m sorry but that’s just the way it is. They’re not wrong.


Thanks, your explanation at least makes some sense. Does this mean there is no way to fight it, I guess?
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Are you sure the job really has promotion potential to the 13? Double check your PD and the announcement (or your application in USAJOBS). If this was truly an error when you were hired, they need to fix it.


I am a PMF and I did not apply through USAjobs. The PMF program is 3 years and is supposed to go GS9 the first year, then GS11, then GS12. My understanding is only PHDs end the PMF with a 13. What my supervisor told me, over and over and over again, was that my job has promotion potential to GS 13. Everyone else in my team and everyone else who has been in my team is a GS 13. Where there were once 2 GS 13s and a GS14 team lead in my team, now there is just me, a GS12. It is not exactly fair.

I would like a new job... but there is not exactly a lot of hiring going on. Things just seem very dysfunctional and I guess it is just time for a career change and time to move on from government. I am 33 years old and half the agency seems like they're at the appropriate age to retire, but I can't really move up this way.


Are you at State by chance? While your position itself may be in a career ladder (i.e. promotion potential to a GS-13), the PMF program is by nature excepted service and at least where I am, ends at conversion at the GS-12 level. You were not hired into that specific career ladder but a PMF excepted service PD. So, you individually are not automatically eligible for non-competitive promotion to the top of that career ladder. You can absolutely compete for it under normal circumstances - this hiring freeze is not a normal environment. I’m sorry but that’s just the way it is. They’re not wrong.


Thanks, your explanation at least makes some sense. Does this mean there is no way to fight it, I guess?


I’m not aware of any way to fight it at this time besides an exemption. But honestly, it’s probably a low priority because it’s just a competitive promotion. Vacancies are the focus. I’d apply for GS-13 jobs elsewhere on USAJobs if you don’t want to wait.
Anonymous
OP have you been there for 3 years? I had to wait 3 years to be converted to competitive from excepted service. I came in under the Honors program which was similar to PMF. Our PMFs also had to wait 3 years. Once you were converted to competitive you could apply for other jobs.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:OP have you been there for 3 years? I had to wait 3 years to be converted to competitive from excepted service. I came in under the Honors program which was similar to PMF. Our PMFs also had to wait 3 years. Once you were converted to competitive you could apply for other jobs.


I was converted almost a year ago. It's been almost 4 years at this job.

I could apply to other jobs but honestly I am sort of ready to move on from government at this point. It has been a valuable experience but I sort of want to have more control over my life and my salary and I am sick of the bureaucratic bs.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Are you sure the job really has promotion potential to the 13? Double check your PD and the announcement (or your application in USAJOBS). If this was truly an error when you were hired, they need to fix it.


I am a PMF and I did not apply through USAjobs. The PMF program is 3 years and is supposed to go GS9 the first year, then GS11, then GS12. My understanding is only PHDs end the PMF with a 13. What my supervisor told me, over and over and over again, was that my job has promotion potential to GS 13. Everyone else in my team and everyone else who has been in my team is a GS 13. Where there were once 2 GS 13s and a GS14 team lead in my team, now there is just me, a GS12. It is not exactly fair.

I would like a new job... but there is not exactly a lot of hiring going on. Things just seem very dysfunctional and I guess it is just time for a career change and time to move on from government. I am 33 years old and half the agency seems like they're at the appropriate age to retire, but I can't really move up this way.


Are you at State by chance? While your position itself may be in a career ladder (i.e. promotion potential to a GS-13), the PMF program is by nature excepted service and at least where I am, ends at conversion at the GS-12 level. You were not hired into that specific career ladder but a PMF excepted service PD. So, you individually are not automatically eligible for non-competitive promotion to the top of that career ladder. You can absolutely compete for it under normal circumstances - this hiring freeze is not a normal environment. I’m sorry but that’s just the way it is. They’re not wrong.


Thanks, your explanation at least makes some sense. Does this mean there is no way to fight it, I guess?


Freeze is officially over at State and first new hiring policy directives have come out, so this could possibly get sorted out soon. Some bureaus (L) have gotten permission to really jump on hiring. Do you know what position your bureau is in? If you're in OES or DRL or GCJ, you're likely screwed, unfortunately... but EB or INL, hiring has started already.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:OP have you been there for 3 years? I had to wait 3 years to be converted to competitive from excepted service. I came in under the Honors program which was similar to PMF. Our PMFs also had to wait 3 years. Once you were converted to competitive you could apply for other jobs.


Depending on the position the person may never be competitive service. I came in as a PMF and converted into yet another excepted service position. My group generally takes a PMF per year and the target conversion is always a GS 12.
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