After what income level does money not buy happiness?

[Anonymous]

It isn’t an income line for me. For me, things changed once we had saved enough for our minmum for retirement and enough for our children’s college. We are still adding to retirement, but college savings are done (older DC is a junior and younger is a freshman in college so we know what we need and we have it). Our HHI is around $200k and has been for a while now.

Now, a substantial increase to where we could fly first class and stay in the concierge level of really nice hotels in big cities would be nice and I wouldn’t say no, but they would not have a huge impact on our happiness. I also love expensive spa weekendsbut again, my happiness does not depend on them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This won't be popular, and I know there is research to the contrary, but for me it was at about $750k. At that point we could do pretty much what we wanted (within reason), not worry much about money, save for retirement, have a second house, pay for college, outsource stuff we don't want to do, etc. Money we've earned over that level tended to not make much difference in our life - mostly went to savings.

This sounds right to me. We are at about half that, and while we are obviously very lucky, I don't yet feel like I can do whatever I want without financial consequences.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This won't be popular, and I know there is research to the contrary, but for me it was at about $750k. At that point we could do pretty much what we wanted (within reason), not worry much about money, save for retirement, have a second house, pay for college, outsource stuff we don't want to do, etc. Money we've earned over that level tended to not make much difference in our life - mostly went to savings.

This sounds right to me. We are at about half that, and while we are obviously very lucky, I don't yet feel like I can do whatever I want without financial consequences.

Is that anyone's working definition of happiness?

[Anonymous]

Our household income jumped from 65k to 100k once and that absolutely changed our lives. I didnt have to shave off grocery money to get an oil change, I was able to book regular vet appointments for the dog, my kids started going to a preschool, etc etc. No jump has ever felt that good since and we are up to 400k.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's when you can buy what you want and don't have to worry about money anymore.

We make about $350K. We live comfortably but I would definitely like to be able to send my 3 kids to private school and still feel like I could easily pay for their college educations, to have full-time household help at home, to support my parents in their later years so they didn't have to worry about money and take several "big" trips a year (10K+) and make more generous (25K+) yearly donations to causes I support. We are not able to do this at 350K, maybe at 500-700.

So you're not happy unless your life has no obstacles whatsoever, even to vague whims?

That wasn't the question, though. The question as I understood it (though phrased awkwardly, and perhaps seeking to elicit something else), and that this poster answered, is when can money actually buy happiness. And the answer, which I agree with, is when it eliminates life's annoyances, relieves life's stresses, and adds significant enjoyment. Nowhere did this poster say she could only be happy with no obstacles - but having the money it takes to eliminate obstacles sure helps.

An old family friend, who is very wealthy, once told me, "Thank goodness for the problems we can solve by throwing money at them."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This won't be popular, and I know there is research to the contrary, but for me it was at about $750k. At that point we could do pretty much what we wanted (within reason), not worry much about money, save for retirement, have a second house, pay for college, outsource stuff we don't want to do, etc. Money we've earned over that level tended to not make much difference in our life - mostly went to savings.

This sounds right to me. We are at about half that, and while we are obviously very lucky, I don't yet feel like I can do whatever I want without financial consequences.

Is that anyone's working definition of happiness?

Again (I assume you are the same PP from above), I wasn't providing my personal definition of happiness.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's when you can buy what you want and don't have to worry about money anymore.

We make about $350K. We live comfortably but I would definitely like to be able to send my 3 kids to private school and still feel like I could easily pay for their college educations, to have full-time household help at home, to support my parents in their later years so they didn't have to worry about money and take several "big" trips a year (10K+) and make more generous (25K+) yearly donations to causes I support. We are not able to do this at 350K, maybe at 500-700.

So you're not happy unless your life has no obstacles whatsoever, even to vague whims?

People with money still have obstacles. Money just isn't one of them. And I wouldn't say I am unhappy but it would make me happy to do some things that I cannot do with our current income.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's when you can buy what you want and don't have to worry about money anymore.

We make about $350K. We live comfortably but I would definitely like to be able to send my 3 kids to private school and still feel like I could easily pay for their college educations, to have full-time household help at home, to support my parents in their later years so they didn't have to worry about money and take several "big" trips a year (10K+) and make more generous (25K+) yearly donations to causes I support. We are not able to do this at 350K, maybe at 500-700.

So you're not happy unless your life has no obstacles whatsoever, even to vague whims?

That wasn't the question, though. The question as I understood it (though phrased awkwardly, and perhaps seeking to elicit something else), and that this poster answered, is when can money actually buy happiness. And the answer, which I agree with, is when it eliminates life's annoyances, relieves life's stresses, and adds significant enjoyment. Nowhere did this poster say she could only be happy with no obstacles - but having the money it takes to eliminate obstacles sure helps.

An old family friend, who is very wealthy, once told me, "Thank goodness for the problems we can solve by throwing money at them."

You're saying the same thing again -- only when money is absolutely no object is happiness achieved. Because the answers you're providing/cosigning here aren't "when money makes my life easier" they're "when it wouldn't be possible for another dollar to make my life an iota easier." Someone with a 200k HHI has an easier life than someone with a 50k HHI, but they don't have literally zero money concerns. But if you need all school costs (at the most expensive option) to not register on your savings radar, full-time household staff, several "big" trips a year (defined not by the level of interest to the poster but rather by a random price tag) ... this isn't just "money smooths my way" it's I have every dollar I can think of a use for. And that's not what happiness means outside of a warped hedge fund sales pitch, at least to anyone I've ever met IRL.

There's a reason that the studies showed 70k was the tipping point into diminishing returns -- in most places 70k gives you options to choose to order your life according to your priorities. But apparently DCUM doesn't define happiness by being able to achieve your priorities, but rather by not having to have priorities so that you can have everything you can think of, all the time. And it should seriously go without saying that that way does not lie happiness. Never in history has just unfettered wealth and sating every passing desire led to a happy person, it's only led to the craziest and most deranged people history can offer up as examples.

[Anonymous]

Our hhi is only $250k or so but have $3m in liquid assets plus a $2m home mostly paid off. We have fully funded retirement and all kids college graduated this year with no student loans. We are both in early 50s and thankfully all healthy. If we had more $$, both in income or net worth, it would not matter but would permit us to start a non profit which is something we plan to do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This won't be popular, and I know there is research to the contrary, but for me it was at about $750k. At that point we could do pretty much what we wanted (within reason), not worry much about money, save for retirement, have a second house, pay for college, outsource stuff we don't want to do, etc. Money we've earned over that level tended to not make much difference in our life - mostly went to savings.

This sounds right to me. We are at about half that, and while we are obviously very lucky, I don't yet feel like I can do whatever I want without financial consequences.

Huh?

We make that now and we still budget. You can’t just spend whatever and whenever. You can go broke making 750k by spending it all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This won't be popular, and I know there is research to the contrary, but for me it was at about $750k. At that point we could do pretty much what we wanted (within reason), not worry much about money, save for retirement, have a second house, pay for college, outsource stuff we don't want to do, etc. Money we've earned over that level tended to not make much difference in our life - mostly went to savings.

This sounds right to me. We are at about half that, and while we are obviously very lucky, I don't yet feel like I can do whatever I want without financial consequences.

Huh?

We make that now and we still budget. You can’t just spend whatever and whenever. You can go broke making 750k by spending it all.

^ we don’t do private school (we have a good public avaulable) but we do spend a lot on travel, easily 50k or more. You still have to make choices at that level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's when you can buy what you want and don't have to worry about money anymore.

We make about $350K. We live comfortably but I would definitely like to be able to send my 3 kids to private school and still feel like I could easily pay for their college educations, to have full-time household help at home, to support my parents in their later years so they didn't have to worry about money and take several "big" trips a year (10K+) and make more generous (25K+) yearly donations to causes I support. We are not able to do this at 350K, maybe at 500-700.

So you're not happy unless your life has no obstacles whatsoever, even to vague whims?

That wasn't the question, though. The question as I understood it (though phrased awkwardly, and perhaps seeking to elicit something else), and that this poster answered, is when can money actually buy happiness. And the answer, which I agree with, is when it eliminates life's annoyances, relieves life's stresses, and adds significant enjoyment. Nowhere did this poster say she could only be happy with no obstacles - but having the money it takes to eliminate obstacles sure helps.

An old family friend, who is very wealthy, once told me, "Thank goodness for the problems we can solve by throwing money at them."

You're saying the same thing again -- only when money is absolutely no object is happiness achieved. Because the answers you're providing/cosigning here aren't "when money makes my life easier" they're "when it wouldn't be possible for another dollar to make my life an iota easier." Someone with a 200k HHI has an easier life than someone with a 50k HHI, but they don't have literally zero money concerns. But if you need all school costs (at the most expensive option) to not register on your savings radar, full-time household staff, several "big" trips a year (defined not by the level of interest to the poster but rather by a random price tag) ... this isn't just "money smooths my way" it's I have every dollar I can think of a use for. And that's not what happiness means outside of a warped hedge fund sales pitch, at least to anyone I've ever met IRL.

There's a reason that the studies showed 70k was the tipping point into diminishing returns -- in most places 70k gives you options to choose to order your life according to your priorities. But apparently DCUM doesn't define happiness by being able to achieve your priorities, but rather by not having to have priorities so that you can have everything you can think of, all the time. And it should seriously go without saying that that way does not lie happiness. Never in history has just unfettered wealth and sating every passing desire led to a happy person, it's only led to the craziest and most deranged people history can offer up as examples.

I get what you’re saying but I don’t think it’s entitely true. Travel is pensive and it makes me very happy. Many of my best memories in life are the trips we take with our family (I’m the PP who spends 50k or more on travel).

For another person, keeping a horse or sending 3 kids to private school might make them happy.

My husband has an 85k car that he says gives him a pulse of pleasure every day. He is planning to replace it with a 110k car.

Money doesn’t buy happiness itself. But it does enable you to buy things (like travel experiences) that facilitate happiness.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's when you can buy what you want and don't have to worry about money anymore.

We make about $350K. We live comfortably but I would definitely like to be able to send my 3 kids to private school and still feel like I could easily pay for their college educations, to have full-time household help at home, to support my parents in their later years so they didn't have to worry about money and take several "big" trips a year (10K+) and make more generous (25K+) yearly donations to causes I support. We are not able to do this at 350K, maybe at 500-700.

So you're not happy unless your life has no obstacles whatsoever, even to vague whims?

That wasn't the question, though. The question as I understood it (though phrased awkwardly, and perhaps seeking to elicit something else), and that this poster answered, is when can money actually buy happiness. And the answer, which I agree with, is when it eliminates life's annoyances, relieves life's stresses, and adds significant enjoyment. Nowhere did this poster say she could only be happy with no obstacles - but having the money it takes to eliminate obstacles sure helps.

An old family friend, who is very wealthy, once told me, "Thank goodness for the problems we can solve by throwing money at them."

You're saying the same thing again -- only when money is absolutely no object is happiness achieved. Because the answers you're providing/cosigning here aren't "when money makes my life easier" they're "when it wouldn't be possible for another dollar to make my life an iota easier." Someone with a 200k HHI has an easier life than someone with a 50k HHI, but they don't have literally zero money concerns. But if you need all school costs (at the most expensive option) to not register on your savings radar, full-time household staff, several "big" trips a year (defined not by the level of interest to the poster but rather by a random price tag) ... this isn't just "money smooths my way" it's I have every dollar I can think of a use for. And that's not what happiness means outside of a warped hedge fund sales pitch, at least to anyone I've ever met IRL.

There's a reason that the studies showed 70k was the tipping point into diminishing returns -- in most places 70k gives you options to choose to order your life according to your priorities. But apparently DCUM doesn't define happiness by being able to achieve your priorities, but rather by not having to have priorities so that you can have everything you can think of, all the time. And it should seriously go without saying that that way does not lie happiness. Never in history has just unfettered wealth and sating every passing desire led to a happy person, it's only led to the craziest and most deranged people history can offer up as examples.

You have reading comprehension issues. Nowhere did I say that only when money is no object is happiness possible. There are innumerable ways to achieve happiness.

[Anonymous]

For us it was about $250,000. At that point we were living comfortably and saving a fair amount. As we started to make a lot more our lifestyle didn't change much but our net worth did. Once our kids educations were paid for, including medical school, we started spending more (vacation home aid in cash, better travel) and donating more. Even now we could live very well on $300,000 but its very nice to know we have a lot more. There is great piece of mind in working hard, saving a lot and then enjoying the fruits. I know a lot of people say why not enjoy it NOW but that was never our style, nor did we want our kids to grow up with a lifestyle they might not be able to achieve.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's when you can buy what you want and don't have to worry about money anymore.

We make about $350K. We live comfortably but I would definitely like to be able to send my 3 kids to private school and still feel like I could easily pay for their college educations, to have full-time household help at home, to support my parents in their later years so they didn't have to worry about money and take several "big" trips a year (10K+) and make more generous (25K+) yearly donations to causes I support. We are not able to do this at 350K, maybe at 500-700.

So you're not happy unless your life has no obstacles whatsoever, even to vague whims?

That wasn't the question, though. The question as I understood it (though phrased awkwardly, and perhaps seeking to elicit something else), and that this poster answered, is when can money actually buy happiness. And the answer, which I agree with, is when it eliminates life's annoyances, relieves life's stresses, and adds significant enjoyment. Nowhere did this poster say she could only be happy with no obstacles - but having the money it takes to eliminate obstacles sure helps.

An old family friend, who is very wealthy, once told me, "Thank goodness for the problems we can solve by throwing money at them."

You're saying the same thing again -- only when money is absolutely no object is happiness achieved. Because the answers you're providing/cosigning here aren't "when money makes my life easier" they're "when it wouldn't be possible for another dollar to make my life an iota easier." Someone with a 200k HHI has an easier life than someone with a 50k HHI, but they don't have literally zero money concerns. But if you need all school costs (at the most expensive option) to not register on your savings radar, full-time household staff, several "big" trips a year (defined not by the level of interest to the poster but rather by a random price tag) ... this isn't just "money smooths my way" it's I have every dollar I can think of a use for. And that's not what happiness means outside of a warped hedge fund sales pitch, at least to anyone I've ever met IRL.

There's a reason that the studies showed 70k was the tipping point into diminishing returns -- in most places 70k gives you options to choose to order your life according to your priorities. But apparently DCUM doesn't define happiness by being able to achieve your priorities, but rather by not having to have priorities so that you can have everything you can think of, all the time. And it should seriously go without saying that that way does not lie happiness. Never in history has just unfettered wealth and sating every passing desire led to a happy person, it's only led to the craziest and most deranged people history can offer up as examples.

I get what you’re saying but I don’t think it’s entitely true. Travel is pensive and it makes me very happy. Many of my best memories in life are the trips we take with our family (I’m the PP who spends 50k or more on travel).

For another person, keeping a horse or sending 3 kids to private school might make them happy.

My husband has an 85k car that he says gives him a pulse of pleasure every day. He is planning to replace it with a 110k car.

Money doesn’t buy happiness itself. But it does enable you to buy things (like travel experiences) that facilitate happiness.

If you're the PP who spends 50K on travel, then you're also the PP who says you have to budget and make choices on 750k. So you're not the first PP (or the parallel PP in the thread) who is equating "happiness" with "the amount of money that gets me whatever I want whenever I want it." Because although you corrected them on the point, they picked their numbers (500-700K or 750K) specifically because they thought meant they could never think/worry about money again. That's the mentality I'm pushing back against, not whether travel is pleasurable (it is) or people can find happiness in expensive hobbies (sure, why not).