Muslim and Arab Killings in the US

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Daughter of two extremely unreligious Muslims here who immigrated to the US. While we are not religious, we have a very clear religious last name. As September 11th was happening, one of my dad's coworkers walked up to him in front of everyone and slapped him blaming him for the attacks. Someone else defaced and vandalized his car. My dad is the sweetest man in the world with zero hate in his heart. He's a proud American who loves this country and his worked tirelessly his entire life here in support of it. My youngest sister was 5 when 9/11 happened and I can't even begin to tell you how badly she was bullied at school after the attacks—physically, mentally, and emotionally. My parents had to pull her out of school for a bit until things settled down. And this was in the first grade, with a lot of the hate towards her being taught by parents to their kids at home.

Fast forward to this year and Trump's candidacy. I'm legitimately (and extremely) worried that what happened after 9/11 will happen to our family again any day now. These two latest attacks on Muslim Americans terrify me to my core and as an American citizen, as a human being, I should not be made to feel this way in my own home country.

Jeff, thank you for doing your part and for deleting the hate filled threads. It makes this little corner of the Internet feel a lot more safe and I for one am grateful of all you do to keep it that way.

Some people are assholes, even some people in the US. I've been bullied, punched, picked on, laughed at, but I see it clearly that these are the actions of individuals here in the US.

Fast forward to Trump's candidacy, I don't see how his proposed policies will make your life harder or more dangerous. While two attacks on Muslim Americans is sad, lets not blow this out of proportion - there is no epidemic of violence against Muslim Americans in the US. Based on hate crime statistics, Jewish hate crime victims out-number Muslim hate crime victims by over 3 times. There were in fact more Asian hate crime victims than Muslim hate crime victims. Your fears are irrational, and it's sad that you see fit to leverage your fears to silence others.

Perfectly rational to people that have been affected by it.

Do you read what you are replying to? The PPs are worried about what's going to happen, not what has already happened. If we are worried about a general trend, the crime statistics don't warrant such fears, therefore having those fears are irrational. I agree that when something bad happens to someone on an anecdotal basis, the impact is severe and significant to that individual, but we as a group of Americans should not make policy based on anecdotes.

I'll post again for you

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2016/05/09/donald_trump_and_the_rise_of_anti_muslim_hate_crimes.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Daughter of two extremely unreligious Muslims here who immigrated to the US. While we are not religious, we have a very clear religious last name. As September 11th was happening, one of my dad's coworkers walked up to him in front of everyone and slapped him blaming him for the attacks. Someone else defaced and vandalized his car. My dad is the sweetest man in the world with zero hate in his heart. He's a proud American who loves this country and his worked tirelessly his entire life here in support of it. My youngest sister was 5 when 9/11 happened and I can't even begin to tell you how badly she was bullied at school after the attacks—physically, mentally, and emotionally. My parents had to pull her out of school for a bit until things settled down. And this was in the first grade, with a lot of the hate towards her being taught by parents to their kids at home.

Fast forward to this year and Trump's candidacy. I'm legitimately (and extremely) worried that what happened after 9/11 will happen to our family again any day now. These two latest attacks on Muslim Americans terrify me to my core and as an American citizen, as a human being, I should not be made to feel this way in my own home country.

Jeff, thank you for doing your part and for deleting the hate filled threads. It makes this little corner of the Internet feel a lot more safe and I for one am grateful of all you do to keep it that way.

Some people are assholes, even some people in the US. I've been bullied, punched, picked on, laughed at, but I see it clearly that these are the actions of individuals here in the US.

Fast forward to Trump's candidacy, I don't see how his proposed policies will make your life harder or more dangerous. While two attacks on Muslim Americans is sad, lets not blow this out of proportion - there is no epidemic of violence against Muslim Americans in the US. Based on hate crime statistics, Jewish hate crime victims out-number Muslim hate crime victims by over 3 times. There were in fact more Asian hate crime victims than Muslim hate crime victims. Your fears are irrational, and it's sad that you see fit to leverage your fears to silence others.

Perfectly rational to people that have been affected by it.

Do you read what you are replying to? The PPs are worried about what's going to happen, not what has already happened. If we are worried about a general trend, the crime statistics don't warrant such fears, therefore having those fears are irrational. I agree that when something bad happens to someone on an anecdotal basis, the impact is severe and significant to that individual, but we as a group of Americans should not make policy based on anecdotes.

I'll post again for you

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2016/05/09/donald_trump_and_the_rise_of_anti_muslim_hate_crimes.html

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/hate-attacks-muslims-u-s-spike-after-recent-acts-terrorism-n482456

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:Do you read what you are replying to? The PPs are worried about what's going to happen, not what has already happened. If we are worried about a general trend, the crime statistics don't warrant such fears, therefore having those fears are irrational. I agree that when something bad happens to someone on an anecdotal basis, the impact is severe and significant to that individual, but we as a group of Americans should not make policy based on anecdotes.

Americans should not make policy based on anecdotes. But, even more, Americans should not make policy based on negative and false stereotypes. As you note, the posters here describing their individual fears are worried about the future. The future is not represented in statistics. Maybe the posters' fears will turn out to be unfounded. But, at this point neither you nor I know if that will be the case. However, having a number of unfounded negative stereotypes being promoted by a leading presidential candidate and being used as the basis of policy proposals does nothing to alleviate such fears. Obviously, it does the contrary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Daughter of two extremely unreligious Muslims here who immigrated to the US. While we are not religious, we have a very clear religious last name. As September 11th was happening, one of my dad's coworkers walked up to him in front of everyone and slapped him blaming him for the attacks. Someone else defaced and vandalized his car. My dad is the sweetest man in the world with zero hate in his heart. He's a proud American who loves this country and his worked tirelessly his entire life here in support of it. My youngest sister was 5 when 9/11 happened and I can't even begin to tell you how badly she was bullied at school after the attacks—physically, mentally, and emotionally. My parents had to pull her out of school for a bit until things settled down. And this was in the first grade, with a lot of the hate towards her being taught by parents to their kids at home.

Fast forward to this year and Trump's candidacy. I'm legitimately (and extremely) worried that what happened after 9/11 will happen to our family again any day now. These two latest attacks on Muslim Americans terrify me to my core and as an American citizen, as a human being, I should not be made to feel this way in my own home country.

Jeff, thank you for doing your part and for deleting the hate filled threads. It makes this little corner of the Internet feel a lot more safe and I for one am grateful of all you do to keep it that way.

Some people are assholes, even some people in the US. I've been bullied, punched, picked on, laughed at, but I see it clearly that these are the actions of individuals here in the US.

Fast forward to Trump's candidacy, I don't see how his proposed policies will make your life harder or more dangerous. While two attacks on Muslim Americans is sad, lets not blow this out of proportion - there is no epidemic of violence against Muslim Americans in the US. Based on hate crime statistics, Jewish hate crime victims out-number Muslim hate crime victims by over 3 times. There were in fact more Asian hate crime victims than Muslim hate crime victims. Your fears are irrational, and it's sad that you see fit to leverage your fears to silence others.

Attacks on anyone who looks Middle Eastern (even a Seikh) have increased since 9/11. FBI hate crime database has indicated as much.

As an Asian American, I have no doubt that if the US were to go to war with some Asian country, there'd be more assaults on Asians. I feel so badly for innocent Muslims in this country. It sucks to be Black, ME, and with Trump, now Hispanic, in this country.

Yes and even with that increase, hate crime against Muslims are less than 1/3rd of hate crime against Jews, and less than hate crime against Asians. This is according to FBI hate crime statistics.

There's currently a stand-off between the US and China over their territorial disputes in South China Sea. We sent carriers over there and Chinese leaders have given off the sense that they are "preparing for war". Speaking of China, if you think Donald Trump's stance on Muslims is leading to increased hate crimes against Muslims, what about his stance on China as it relates to hate crimes against the Chinese? You see us Chinese Americans hyperventilating about it?

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:Yes and even with that increase, hate crime against Muslims are less than 1/3rd of hate crime against Jews, and less than hate crime against Asians. This is according to FBI hate crime statistics.

There's currently a stand-off between the US and China over their territorial disputes in South China Sea. We sent carriers over there and Chinese leaders have given off the sense that they are "preparing for war". Speaking of China, if you think Donald Trump's stance on Muslims is leading to increased hate crimes against Muslims, what about his stance on China as it relates to hate crimes against the Chinese? You see us Chinese Americans hyperventilating about it?

You seem really vested in demonstrating that Muslims and Arabs are irrationally fearful. Can you point me to the statistics to which you keep referring? The only ones I could find precede Donald Trump's candidacy and, therefore, are not particularly reverent to this discussion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Daughter of two extremely unreligious Muslims here who immigrated to the US. While we are not religious, we have a very clear religious last name. As September 11th was happening, one of my dad's coworkers walked up to him in front of everyone and slapped him blaming him for the attacks. Someone else defaced and vandalized his car. My dad is the sweetest man in the world with zero hate in his heart. He's a proud American who loves this country and his worked tirelessly his entire life here in support of it. My youngest sister was 5 when 9/11 happened and I can't even begin to tell you how badly she was bullied at school after the attacks—physically, mentally, and emotionally. My parents had to pull her out of school for a bit until things settled down. And this was in the first grade, with a lot of the hate towards her being taught by parents to their kids at home.

Fast forward to this year and Trump's candidacy. I'm legitimately (and extremely) worried that what happened after 9/11 will happen to our family again any day now. These two latest attacks on Muslim Americans terrify me to my core and as an American citizen, as a human being, I should not be made to feel this way in my own home country.

Jeff, thank you for doing your part and for deleting the hate filled threads. It makes this little corner of the Internet feel a lot more safe and I for one am grateful of all you do to keep it that way.

Some people are assholes, even some people in the US. I've been bullied, punched, picked on, laughed at, but I see it clearly that these are the actions of individuals here in the US.

Fast forward to Trump's candidacy, I don't see how his proposed policies will make your life harder or more dangerous. While two attacks on Muslim Americans is sad, lets not blow this out of proportion - there is no epidemic of violence against Muslim Americans in the US. Based on hate crime statistics, Jewish hate crime victims out-number Muslim hate crime victims by over 3 times. There were in fact more Asian hate crime victims than Muslim hate crime victims. Your fears are irrational, and it's sad that you see fit to leverage your fears to silence others.

PP here. It's people like you who make me afraid of what the future holds. How dare you attempt to trivialize my experiences and my feelings without walking even half a step in my shoes. My fears are very rational and are rooted in real events and experiences that have happened to my family. Despite your repeated ignorant posts, I don't wish any of my experiences on you and I hope you never have to hear or witness the things I have. Enjoy life in your bubble but don't ever try to diminish what another person has gone through and how they feel.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Daughter of two extremely unreligious Muslims here who immigrated to the US. While we are not religious, we have a very clear religious last name. As September 11th was happening, one of my dad's coworkers walked up to him in front of everyone and slapped him blaming him for the attacks. Someone else defaced and vandalized his car. My dad is the sweetest man in the world with zero hate in his heart. He's a proud American who loves this country and his worked tirelessly his entire life here in support of it. My youngest sister was 5 when 9/11 happened and I can't even begin to tell you how badly she was bullied at school after the attacks—physically, mentally, and emotionally. My parents had to pull her out of school for a bit until things settled down. And this was in the first grade, with a lot of the hate towards her being taught by parents to their kids at home.

Fast forward to this year and Trump's candidacy. I'm legitimately (and extremely) worried that what happened after 9/11 will happen to our family again any day now. These two latest attacks on Muslim Americans terrify me to my core and as an American citizen, as a human being, I should not be made to feel this way in my own home country.

Jeff, thank you for doing your part and for deleting the hate filled threads. It makes this little corner of the Internet feel a lot more safe and I for one am grateful of all you do to keep it that way.

Some people are assholes, even some people in the US. I've been bullied, punched, picked on, laughed at, but I see it clearly that these are the actions of individuals here in the US.

Fast forward to Trump's candidacy, I don't see how his proposed policies will make your life harder or more dangerous. While two attacks on Muslim Americans is sad, lets not blow this out of proportion - there is no epidemic of violence against Muslim Americans in the US. Based on hate crime statistics, Jewish hate crime victims out-number Muslim hate crime victims by over 3 times. There were in fact more Asian hate crime victims than Muslim hate crime victims. Your fears are irrational, and it's sad that you see fit to leverage your fears to silence others.

Perfectly rational to people that have been affected by it.

Do you read what you are replying to? The PPs are worried about what's going to happen, not what has already happened. If we are worried about a general trend, the crime statistics don't warrant such fears, therefore having those fears are irrational. I agree that when something bad happens to someone on an anecdotal basis, the impact is severe and significant to that individual, but we as a group of Americans should not make policy based on anecdotes.

The statistics don't seem to agree with you. While hate crimes agent Jewish people and other groups have decreased, there was an uptick in hate crimes against muslims from 2012 to 2013, and again from 2013 to 2014. When they release the 2015 results soon I wouldn't be surprised if it increased even further. So I'll repeat myself, it's perfectly rational for someone that has been affected by it, and YES the most recent data does support that trend. Helps to do your research.

Here are the links if you care to see some real data.

https://ucr.fbi.gov/hate-crime/2012/topic-pages/victims/victims_final

https://ucr.fbi.gov/hate-crime/2013/topic-pages/victims/victims_final

https://ucr.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/hate-crime/2014/topic-pages/victims_final

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you read what you are replying to? The PPs are worried about what's going to happen, not what has already happened. If we are worried about a general trend, the crime statistics don't warrant such fears, therefore having those fears are irrational. I agree that when something bad happens to someone on an anecdotal basis, the impact is severe and significant to that individual, but we as a group of Americans should not make policy based on anecdotes.

Americans should not make policy based on anecdotes. But, even more, Americans should not make policy based on negative and false stereotypes. As you note, the posters here describing their individual fears are worried about the future. The future is not represented in statistics. Maybe the posters' fears will turn out to be unfounded. But, at this point neither you nor I know if that will be the case. However, having a number of unfounded negative stereotypes being promoted by a leading presidential candidate and being used as the basis of policy proposals does nothing to alleviate such fears. Obviously, it does the contrary.

Jeff, history is a great reference of what will happen in the future. There is no wide spread epidemic of violence against Muslims here in the US and there is no rational evidence that supports there will be widespread violence in the future. Our fears should be founded on something other than "just because the future is not set". Sure none of us knows for sure what the future will bring, but all evidence point to "not a whole lot" with respect to hate crimes against innocent Muslim Americans.

Stereotypes are perfectly fine if they have a basis in past experience or direct observation. You stay away from colorful snakes because they may be poisonous - that's a stereotype. With regards to policy based on stereotypes, that Muslims currently perform the bulk of terrorist attacks in the world is a fact. It is also fact that contemporary Islam teachings in predominantly Muslim countries are incompatible with the values we hold dear here in the US. Therefore, it is prudent to filter immigration of people from predominantly Muslim countries. People who want to immigrate into the US must understand and agree to how we want to live together. If they disagree with how we want to live, then they should not be allowed to come here. I can tell you that when our family immigrated into the US some decades ago, my parents had to explain why they were members of the communist party back in the home country. This type of scrutiny is exactly what we need to apply to all immigrants. I don't doubt that there are freedom loving Muslims who practice a more progressive version of Islam, and they will fit in just fine with the rest of us. But we need to filter out those that wants to come here to change our way of life, to impose their values onto us.

I don't particularly like Donald Trump, he is a bad presidential candidate, but his position on this is a lot closer to mine than Hillary or Obama's.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Daughter of two extremely unreligious Muslims here who immigrated to the US. While we are not religious, we have a very clear religious last name. As September 11th was happening, one of my dad's coworkers walked up to him in front of everyone and slapped him blaming him for the attacks. Someone else defaced and vandalized his car. My dad is the sweetest man in the world with zero hate in his heart. He's a proud American who loves this country and his worked tirelessly his entire life here in support of it. My youngest sister was 5 when 9/11 happened and I can't even begin to tell you how badly she was bullied at school after the attacks—physically, mentally, and emotionally. My parents had to pull her out of school for a bit until things settled down. And this was in the first grade, with a lot of the hate towards her being taught by parents to their kids at home.

Fast forward to this year and Trump's candidacy. I'm legitimately (and extremely) worried that what happened after 9/11 will happen to our family again any day now. These two latest attacks on Muslim Americans terrify me to my core and as an American citizen, as a human being, I should not be made to feel this way in my own home country.

Jeff, thank you for doing your part and for deleting the hate filled threads. It makes this little corner of the Internet feel a lot more safe and I for one am grateful of all you do to keep it that way.

Some people are assholes, even some people in the US. I've been bullied, punched, picked on, laughed at, but I see it clearly that these are the actions of individuals here in the US.

Fast forward to Trump's candidacy, I don't see how his proposed policies will make your life harder or more dangerous. While two attacks on Muslim Americans is sad, lets not blow this out of proportion - there is no epidemic of violence against Muslim Americans in the US. Based on hate crime statistics, Jewish hate crime victims out-number Muslim hate crime victims by over 3 times. There were in fact more Asian hate crime victims than Muslim hate crime victims. Your fears are irrational, and it's sad that you see fit to leverage your fears to silence others.

Perfectly rational to people that have been affected by it.

Do you read what you are replying to? The PPs are worried about what's going to happen, not what has already happened. If we are worried about a general trend, the crime statistics don't warrant such fears, therefore having those fears are irrational. I agree that when something bad happens to someone on an anecdotal basis, the impact is severe and significant to that individual, but we as a group of Americans should not make policy based on anecdotes.

The statistics don't seem to agree with you. While hate crimes agent Jewish people and other groups have decreased, there was an uptick in hate crimes against muslims from 2012 to 2013, and again from 2013 to 2014. When they release the 2015 results soon I wouldn't be surprised if it increased even further. So I'll repeat myself, it's perfectly rational for someone that has been affected by it, and YES the most recent data does support that trend. Helps to do your research.

Here are the links if you care to see some real data.

https://ucr.fbi.gov/hate-crime/2012/topic-pages/victims/victims_final

https://ucr.fbi.gov/hate-crime/2013/topic-pages/victims/victims_final

https://ucr.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/hate-crime/2014/topic-pages/victims_final

Sigh...

Based on 2014 statistics:

Jewish victims: 647
Muslim victims: 183
Asian victims: 200

Again, fears of widespread systemic violence against Muslims is unfounded. If we want to use FBI statistics, we should be far more concerned about hate crimes against Jews. Yes, hate crimes against Muslims is increasing as a percentage, most likely due to repeated terrorist attacks all over the world committed by Muslims - even Slate points to this causal relationship; blaming Trump's rhetoric for crime statics in 2014 is stretching it quite a bit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Daughter of two extremely unreligious Muslims here who immigrated to the US. While we are not religious, we have a very clear religious last name. As September 11th was happening, one of my dad's coworkers walked up to him in front of everyone and slapped him blaming him for the attacks. Someone else defaced and vandalized his car. My dad is the sweetest man in the world with zero hate in his heart. He's a proud American who loves this country and his worked tirelessly his entire life here in support of it. My youngest sister was 5 when 9/11 happened and I can't even begin to tell you how badly she was bullied at school after the attacks—physically, mentally, and emotionally. My parents had to pull her out of school for a bit until things settled down. And this was in the first grade, with a lot of the hate towards her being taught by parents to their kids at home.

Fast forward to this year and Trump's candidacy. I'm legitimately (and extremely) worried that what happened after 9/11 will happen to our family again any day now. These two latest attacks on Muslim Americans terrify me to my core and as an American citizen, as a human being, I should not be made to feel this way in my own home country.

Jeff, thank you for doing your part and for deleting the hate filled threads. It makes this little corner of the Internet feel a lot more safe and I for one am grateful of all you do to keep it that way.

Some people are assholes, even some people in the US. I've been bullied, punched, picked on, laughed at, but I see it clearly that these are the actions of individuals here in the US.

Fast forward to Trump's candidacy, I don't see how his proposed policies will make your life harder or more dangerous. While two attacks on Muslim Americans is sad, lets not blow this out of proportion - there is no epidemic of violence against Muslim Americans in the US. Based on hate crime statistics, Jewish hate crime victims out-number Muslim hate crime victims by over 3 times. There were in fact more Asian hate crime victims than Muslim hate crime victims. Your fears are irrational, and it's sad that you see fit to leverage your fears to silence others.

Perfectly rational to people that have been affected by it.

Do you read what you are replying to? The PPs are worried about what's going to happen, not what has already happened. If we are worried about a general trend, the crime statistics don't warrant such fears, therefore having those fears are irrational. I agree that when something bad happens to someone on an anecdotal basis, the impact is severe and significant to that individual, but we as a group of Americans should not make policy based on anecdotes.

The statistics don't seem to agree with you. While hate crimes agent Jewish people and other groups have decreased, there was an uptick in hate crimes against muslims from 2012 to 2013, and again from 2013 to 2014. When they release the 2015 results soon I wouldn't be surprised if it increased even further. So I'll repeat myself, it's perfectly rational for someone that has been affected by it, and YES the most recent data does support that trend. Helps to do your research.

Here are the links if you care to see some real data.

https://ucr.fbi.gov/hate-crime/2012/topic-pages/victims/victims_final

https://ucr.fbi.gov/hate-crime/2013/topic-pages/victims/victims_final

https://ucr.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/hate-crime/2014/topic-pages/victims_final

Sigh...

Based on 2014 statistics:

Jewish victims: 647
Muslim victims: 183
Asian victims: 200

Again, fears of widespread systemic violence against Muslims is unfounded. If we want to use FBI statistics, we should be far more concerned about hate crimes against Jews. Yes, hate crimes against Muslims is increasing as a percentage, most likely due to repeated terrorist attacks all over the world committed by Muslims - even Slate points to this causal relationship; blaming Trump's rhetoric for crime statics in 2014 is stretching it quite a bit.

I suggest you google what "trend" means, and compare the year to year data instead of trying to skew the data to favor your side of the story. Now you're saying "yes there is a trend of increased violence ,but it's justified"? It doesn't matter what the cause is, the trend is that muslims are increasingly becoming victims of hate crimes...which you said was not the case and fearing that trend was irrational. You need to pick one argument and stick with it, instead of moving on to the next after someone disproves you

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you read what you are replying to? The PPs are worried about what's going to happen, not what has already happened. If we are worried about a general trend, the crime statistics don't warrant such fears, therefore having those fears are irrational. I agree that when something bad happens to someone on an anecdotal basis, the impact is severe and significant to that individual, but we as a group of Americans should not make policy based on anecdotes.

Americans should not make policy based on anecdotes. But, even more, Americans should not make policy based on negative and false stereotypes. As you note, the posters here describing their individual fears are worried about the future. The future is not represented in statistics. Maybe the posters' fears will turn out to be unfounded. But, at this point neither you nor I know if that will be the case. However, having a number of unfounded negative stereotypes being promoted by a leading presidential candidate and being used as the basis of policy proposals does nothing to alleviate such fears. Obviously, it does the contrary.

Jeff, history is a great reference of what will happen in the future. There is no wide spread epidemic of violence against Muslims here in the US and there is no rational evidence that supports there will be widespread violence in the future. Our fears should be founded on something other than "just because the future is not set". Sure none of us knows for sure what the future will bring, but all evidence point to "not a whole lot" with respect to hate crimes against innocent Muslim Americans.

Stereotypes are perfectly fine if they have a basis in past experience or direct observation. You stay away from colorful snakes because they may be poisonous - that's a stereotype. With regards to policy based on stereotypes, that Muslims currently perform the bulk of terrorist attacks in the world is a fact. It is also fact that contemporary Islam teachings in predominantly Muslim countries are incompatible with the values we hold dear here in the US. Therefore, it is prudent to filter immigration of people from predominantly Muslim countries. People who want to immigrate into the US must understand and agree to how we want to live together. If they disagree with how we want to live, then they should not be allowed to come here. I can tell you that when our family immigrated into the US some decades ago, my parents had to explain why they were members of the communist party back in the home country. This type of scrutiny is exactly what we need to apply to all immigrants. I don't doubt that there are freedom loving Muslims who practice a more progressive version of Islam, and they will fit in just fine with the rest of us. But we need to filter out those that wants to come here to change our way of life, to impose their values onto us.

I don't particularly like Donald Trump, he is a bad presidential candidate, but his position on this is a lot closer to mine than Hillary or Obama's.

So much of what you say is based upon a very specific interpretation.

Muslims commit most terrorist attacks is only true if you define terrorist attacks a very specific way.

"contemporary Islam teachings in predominantly Muslim countries" is a vague phrase based on impressions not knowledge. I don't deny the bigoted and fundamentalist BS most religious governments have adopted, but you also need to do some research before justifying Trump's stereotypes.

And in case it isn't obvious, terrorist interpretations of Islam are very far from the truth of the religion.

Muslim Americans have diverse beliefs. Just because the "progressives" are ok with you, doesn't mean the others are illegitimate, unAmerican, or problematic.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you read what you are replying to? The PPs are worried about what's going to happen, not what has already happened. If we are worried about a general trend, the crime statistics don't warrant such fears, therefore having those fears are irrational. I agree that when something bad happens to someone on an anecdotal basis, the impact is severe and significant to that individual, but we as a group of Americans should not make policy based on anecdotes.

Americans should not make policy based on anecdotes. But, even more, Americans should not make policy based on negative and false stereotypes. As you note, the posters here describing their individual fears are worried about the future. The future is not represented in statistics. Maybe the posters' fears will turn out to be unfounded. But, at this point neither you nor I know if that will be the case. However, having a number of unfounded negative stereotypes being promoted by a leading presidential candidate and being used as the basis of policy proposals does nothing to alleviate such fears. Obviously, it does the contrary.

Jeff, history is a great reference of what will happen in the future. There is no wide spread epidemic of violence against Muslims here in the US and there is no rational evidence that supports there will be widespread violence in the future. Our fears should be founded on something other than "just because the future is not set". Sure none of us knows for sure what the future will bring, but all evidence point to "not a whole lot" with respect to hate crimes against innocent Muslim Americans.

Stereotypes are perfectly fine if they have a basis in past experience or direct observation. You stay away from colorful snakes because they may be poisonous - that's a stereotype. With regards to policy based on stereotypes, that Muslims currently perform the bulk of terrorist attacks in the world is a fact. It is also fact that contemporary Islam teachings in predominantly Muslim countries are incompatible with the values we hold dear here in the US. Therefore, it is prudent to filter immigration of people from predominantly Muslim countries. People who want to immigrate into the US must understand and agree to how we want to live together. If they disagree with how we want to live, then they should not be allowed to come here. I can tell you that when our family immigrated into the US some decades ago, my parents had to explain why they were members of the communist party back in the home country. This type of scrutiny is exactly what we need to apply to all immigrants. I don't doubt that there are freedom loving Muslims who practice a more progressive version of Islam, and they will fit in just fine with the rest of us. But we need to filter out those that wants to come here to change our way of life, to impose their values onto us.

I don't particularly like Donald Trump, he is a bad presidential candidate, but his position on this is a lot closer to mine than Hillary or Obama's.

I could not be less surprised than to find that you: a) believe stereotypes are perfectly fine; b) personally believe a number of false stereotypes about Muslims; and c) hold a position regarding Muslims similar to that of Trump.

Of course, it is also fitting that with your apparent world view the best metaphor for Muslims you could find was snakes. Good job all the way around with that post.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Daughter of two extremely unreligious Muslims here who immigrated to the US. While we are not religious, we have a very clear religious last name. As September 11th was happening, one of my dad's coworkers walked up to him in front of everyone and slapped him blaming him for the attacks. Someone else defaced and vandalized his car. My dad is the sweetest man in the world with zero hate in his heart. He's a proud American who loves this country and his worked tirelessly his entire life here in support of it. My youngest sister was 5 when 9/11 happened and I can't even begin to tell you how badly she was bullied at school after the attacks—physically, mentally, and emotionally. My parents had to pull her out of school for a bit until things settled down. And this was in the first grade, with a lot of the hate towards her being taught by parents to their kids at home.

Fast forward to this year and Trump's candidacy. I'm legitimately (and extremely) worried that what happened after 9/11 will happen to our family again any day now. These two latest attacks on Muslim Americans terrify me to my core and as an American citizen, as a human being, I should not be made to feel this way in my own home country.

Jeff, thank you for doing your part and for deleting the hate filled threads. It makes this little corner of the Internet feel a lot more safe and I for one am grateful of all you do to keep it that way.

Some people are assholes, even some people in the US. I've been bullied, punched, picked on, laughed at, but I see it clearly that these are the actions of individuals here in the US.

Fast forward to Trump's candidacy, I don't see how his proposed policies will make your life harder or more dangerous. While two attacks on Muslim Americans is sad, lets not blow this out of proportion - there is no epidemic of violence against Muslim Americans in the US. Based on hate crime statistics, Jewish hate crime victims out-number Muslim hate crime victims by over 3 times. There were in fact more Asian hate crime victims than Muslim hate crime victims. Your fears are irrational, and it's sad that you see fit to leverage your fears to silence others.

PP here. It's people like you who make me afraid of what the future holds. How dare you attempt to trivialize my experiences and my feelings without walking even half a step in my shoes. My fears are very rational and are rooted in real events and experiences that have happened to my family. Despite your repeated ignorant posts, I don't wish any of my experiences on you and I hope you never have to hear or witness the things I have. Enjoy life in your bubble but don't ever try to diminish what another person has gone through and how they feel.

It really seems you are not reading what you are replying to. As I said "I've been bullied, punched, picked on, laughed at..." It was tough growing up as a kid from a communist country here in the states in the early 80's. Even people who looked like me didn't tolerate me: South Korean kids picked on me because China supported the wrong side in the Korean war, Taiwanese kids didn't like me because they are the one true China, Hongkong/Cantonese people looked down on us because they considered themselves a part of UK. There were very very few other mainland Chinese kids in the US back then. So while I have not walked any steps in your shoes, neither have you mine. But the point here is not about our individual experiences because those are anecdotal. Fact of the matter is, there is no evidence of widespread systemic problem of hate crimes against Muslims or Asians here in the US. The data simply does not support that claim. You are free to feel as you wish, and I am free to point out that your fears are irrational. I hope we can have a constructive dialogue rather than let this devolve into a dismissive exchange of "you don't understand because you are not one of us".

[Anonymous]

I could not be less surprised than to find that you: a) believe stereotypes are perfectly fine; b) personally believe a number of false stereotypes about Muslims; and c) hold a position regarding Muslims similar to that of Trump.

Of course, it is also fitting that with your apparent world view the best metaphor for Muslims you could find was snakes. Good job all the way around with that post.

and let's not forget here that we aren't just talking about muslims or arabs, but rather anyone who is of middle eastern descent. My husband is of middle-eastern descent -- when Trump talks about muslims and their American born children being dangerous, he's talking about my kids, neither of whom knows Jesus from Mohammed. The Lebanese family who suffered at the hands of their neighbor were Christians.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Daughter of two extremely unreligious Muslims here who immigrated to the US. While we are not religious, we have a very clear religious last name. As September 11th was happening, one of my dad's coworkers walked up to him in front of everyone and slapped him blaming him for the attacks. Someone else defaced and vandalized his car. My dad is the sweetest man in the world with zero hate in his heart. He's a proud American who loves this country and his worked tirelessly his entire life here in support of it. My youngest sister was 5 when 9/11 happened and I can't even begin to tell you how badly she was bullied at school after the attacks—physically, mentally, and emotionally. My parents had to pull her out of school for a bit until things settled down. And this was in the first grade, with a lot of the hate towards her being taught by parents to their kids at home.

Fast forward to this year and Trump's candidacy. I'm legitimately (and extremely) worried that what happened after 9/11 will happen to our family again any day now. These two latest attacks on Muslim Americans terrify me to my core and as an American citizen, as a human being, I should not be made to feel this way in my own home country.

Jeff, thank you for doing your part and for deleting the hate filled threads. It makes this little corner of the Internet feel a lot more safe and I for one am grateful of all you do to keep it that way.

Some people are assholes, even some people in the US. I've been bullied, punched, picked on, laughed at, but I see it clearly that these are the actions of individuals here in the US.

Fast forward to Trump's candidacy, I don't see how his proposed policies will make your life harder or more dangerous. While two attacks on Muslim Americans is sad, lets not blow this out of proportion - there is no epidemic of violence against Muslim Americans in the US. Based on hate crime statistics, Jewish hate crime victims out-number Muslim hate crime victims by over 3 times. There were in fact more Asian hate crime victims than Muslim hate crime victims. Your fears are irrational, and it's sad that you see fit to leverage your fears to silence others.

PP here. It's people like you who make me afraid of what the future holds. How dare you attempt to trivialize my experiences and my feelings without walking even half a step in my shoes. My fears are very rational and are rooted in real events and experiences that have happened to my family. Despite your repeated ignorant posts, I don't wish any of my experiences on you and I hope you never have to hear or witness the things I have. Enjoy life in your bubble but don't ever try to diminish what another person has gone through and how they feel.

It really seems you are not reading what you are replying to. As I said "I've been bullied, punched, picked on, laughed at..." It was tough growing up as a kid from a communist country here in the states in the early 80's. Even people who looked like me didn't tolerate me: South Korean kids picked on me because China supported the wrong side in the Korean war, Taiwanese kids didn't like me because they are the one true China, Hongkong/Cantonese people looked down on us because they considered themselves a part of UK. There were very very few other mainland Chinese kids in the US back then. So while I have not walked any steps in your shoes, neither have you mine. But the point here is not about our individual experiences because those are anecdotal. Fact of the matter is, there is no evidence of widespread systemic problem of hate crimes against Muslims or Asians here in the US. The data simply does not support that claim. You are free to feel as you wish, and I am free to point out that your fears are irrational. I hope we can have a constructive dialogue rather than let this devolve into a dismissive exchange of "you don't understand because you are not one of us".

More I think about it, there are parallels to be drawn here. Reagan lead a presidency of anti-communism. He was largely responsible for the fall of the USSR and pursued foreign policies of aiding nations/groups that fought against communism. The threat of communism throughout the cold war was tangible just as the current threat of Muslim terrorism. Remember that kids used to go through exercises in school of what to do in a nuclear attack. People built fall out shelters in their yards. That was real. The US worked through that, I never once thought that Reagan was a bad president for taking a strong line against communism even though that meant that I might become guilty-by-association in the eyes of certain individuals. Instead, I've seen first hand the evils of communism and am for one glad to see it fail all over the world.