Young, socially awkward child: To redshirt or not to redshirt... that is the question

[Anonymous]

i would wait. fwiw, my sister is an early childhood teacher and this comes up for her quite frequently. in her experience, it is almost always better to wait. she rarely recommends that parents push ahead. part of her argument is about development over the entire course of their education. he may seem capable now but things will change as he grows. her opinion is that it is almost always to the child's advantage to be older rather than younger.

[Anonymous]

Funny to read about 'red-shirting' from the parents' perspective...I'm a middle school teacher and out of my current students, I can think of about 5 boys and 1 girl who would have benefitted from being given that extra year between Pre-K and K. Interesting how as a teacher I can see the good behind the extra year...but admit it would be hard to swallow if I held my own daughter back. In all honesty though, I think in my case those feelings are based on stigma and stereotypes...not facts. ugh. Good luck with your decision, OP...sure wish it were an easier one to make and hope you found some validation here in the midst of your struggle.

[Anonymous]

Similar but different situation. Similar in that DS is shy/introverted. Different in that he's not (yet anyway) an academic powerhouse. We faced the decision last year about what to do and opted to send him to kindergarten. No regrets, but he's struggling academically in some ways. Why no regrets? Because it's not clear that an extra year really would make a difference. He's doing fine socially with the kids, but isn't very participatory with the teachers. This is definitely an innate part of his personality. In terms of academics, even the teachers say it all tends to even out by second grade (with reading, for example). We think kindergarten, while somewhat of a struggle, has stretched him in good ways. He's generally happy to go to school in the morning and rarely wants to leave at the end of the day.

[Anonymous]

"Funny to read about 'red-shirting' from the parents' perspective...I'm a middle school teacher and out of my current students, I can think of about 5 boys and 1 girl who would have benefitted from being given that extra year between Pre-K and K. "

Some of the posters identifying themselves as teachers worry me a bit. It almost seems as if there is an expectation that all children are the same and a narrowed view of the personality ranges.

[Anonymous]

OP, in my opinion, emotional and social development are THE MOST important things to focus on for the preschool and kindergarten years.

I commend your son's preschool teacher for focusing on those issues as well, because with a bright, young child who has good fine motor skills and pays attention well in class, it would be easy for her to overlook his social issues. Poor fine motor skills and inability to sit still at story time are more typical concerns for "young for their age-group" boys.

There are many very important social and emotional abilities that should be nurtured and developed in preschool. You can get a good idea of the range if you check this out: look on pages 2 through 8, especially:

http://www.haddonfield.k12.nj.us/tatem/dev-cont.pdf

Take a look at the far right column for the areas of sense of self, responsibility for self and others, and prosocial behavior. Ideally, your child would be in stage III for many of these BEFORE entering kindergarten. Now of course, you woudn't hold a child back for "not hitting the mark" in a few areas, any more than you'd hold a child back for not being able to kick a ball well. But these three areas are a key part of the developmental priorities for preschoolers -- learning to interact and negotiate with other children, learning to stand up for themselves. And a child, especially a shy or introverted one, who has always been in a classroom with older children may not have had as many opportunities to develop those skills.

Especially because your child is right on the cusp, I think you could easily have him repeat a year of preschool. I'd look for a good school where interaction with other children and doing physical, hands-on activities outdoors was stressed -- not one that tried to do too many academic activities or had kids working individually most of the time.

If we were in a different age, kindergarten might be the place for this kind of group interaction and play, but kindergartens in most places nowadays really are stressing academics and early reading and math, above social interation.

If you hold your child back for this year and then enter him in kindergarten in 2 years, chances are good that there will still be several older kids in his class who are also working on his academic level -- they might be the smart kids who are one or two months younger than him. I feel that it is better to be more emotionally and social secure in the early years.

[Anonymous]

Thanks PP for posting the link. My son's preschool uses the Creative Curriculum but I had never seen the checklist before. My son has a loooong way to go socially and emotionally before he hits kindergarten. I am a former teacher and have many teacher friends. Social and emotional development is usually overlooked in the more academic K programs these days sadly. The kids who have problems are often referred to the guidance counselor. Sometimes the GC will come into the classroom to talk to the kids and do presentations about certain topics but it is nowhere near a priority. I don't have any answers for the OP except that you know your child best. Go observe the K classes he would be in next year. Talk to one or more of the K teachers and ask them what they expect of kids coming into their class.

[Anonymous]

OP -- one more thing -- I'd urge you to take things one year at a time, right now. Look at what is best for your son next year, and don't worry too much about five or 10 years from now.

There are very few things that can't be altered later. There's no law that says that the way things get set in motion now is the way they have to be, forever. Sure it might take some effort, but there are often options down the line that might be possible if need be. Kids can skip a grade. Kids can move to a different type of school, from public to private or private to public. Kids can get into a Gifted and Talented program or school. Kids can be homeschooled.

[Anonymous]

"Funny to read about 'red-shirting' from the parents' perspective...I'm a middle school teacher and out of my current students, I can think of about 5 boys and 1 girl who would have benefitted from being given that extra year between Pre-K and K. "

"Some of the posters identifying themselves as teachers worry me a bit. It almost seems as if there is an expectation that all children are the same and a narrowed view of the personality ranges."

Ummm...I don't see it. So how did the middle school teacher cause the PP to worry when the teacher mentioned 5 or 6 students who could've benefitted from the extra year to mature--that seems like it's taking personality into account, no--it's not ALL of the students? How did the teacher's comments lead you to think there was a 'cookie cutter' policy to red-shirting? I don't get it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"Funny to read about 'red-shirting' from the parents' perspective...I'm a middle school teacher and out of my current students, I can think of about 5 boys and 1 girl who would have benefitted from being given that extra year between Pre-K and K. "

"Some of the posters identifying themselves as teachers worry me a bit. It almost seems as if there is an expectation that all children are the same and a narrowed view of the personality ranges."

Ummm...I don't see it. So how did the middle school teacher cause the PP to worry when the teacher mentioned 5 or 6 students who could've benefitted from the extra year to mature--that seems like it's taking personality into account, no--it's not ALL of the students? How did the teacher's comments lead you to think there was a 'cookie cutter' policy to red-shirting? I don't get it.

I dont get it either. I'm guessing that the teachers who have commented have come across hundreds of children in their careers. I'm sure they can tell the difference between students who are just introverted vs. students who are socially/academically behind their peers. I really appreciate their feedback and it's certainly something I'll consider when my DC reaches school age.

[Anonymous]

Your child sounds exactly like mine. I would send him to school because you don't know for sure if it's a social delay or if its just his personality. What if it is just his personality and he was held back for this?

I don't think social skills are a reason to hold a child back.

But on the other hand, you, as his mother, know him best. Follow your heart.

[Anonymous]

I was your son. Beat the age cut-off by less than two weeks. Was both smart and precocious. Somewhat shy and socially awkward. Middling athlete. My parents redshirted me, and I can't thank them enough.

It wasn't pure upside, especially in the early years. Add "old" to "smart" and "precocious" and you get an often-bored elementary school kid who's likely to act out in class. But here's the thing, most (70%? 80%?) of classroom boredom came from "smart" rather than "precocious" or "old." Over the course of my school days, I took a lot of classes with older, sometimes much older, kids. If there was any reduction in boredom due to "precocious" and "old" being neutralized, it was vanishingly small. (The boredom disappeared only when I was in classes full of other really smart kids, whatever their ages.) I was better behaved in the classes with older kids, but purely because I wanted to minimize the bullying by laying low. And that's the other thing: An older kid acting out in class is a problem for the class, but a younger kid acting out in class is a problem for the class and is likely to be picked on. A younger kid not acting up in class purely because he doesn't want to get picked on is probably learning things you'd rather he not learn.

So, all told, elementary school was probably a wash for me as far as the decision to redshirt went. But, wow, what a bonus it was for middle school and high school. And there I have a control group: I moved to a new town in the summer before sixth grade, and one of my best friends there was a boy who was the same school year, as smart and precocious as I was, and almost exactly one year younger than me. He did fine academically (not quite as well as I did, which could be attributed to a confidence gap from struggling to keep up at the very beginning of his schooling -- there's a pretty good NYT article on that phenomenon and a link somewhere on these boards). He struggled socially (with both boys and girls) and athletically, though, while I didn't. Now that we're both adults, and still close friends, it's clear that he's both much more socially gifted than I am and somewhat more athletic. Those inherent advantaged were swamped, though, during those grim years between sixth and twelfth grade by the extra year I had on him. I played the sports I wanted to play, generally hung out with the boys I wanted to hang out with, and sometimes even dated the girls I wanted to date. My friend had to compromise, at best, in each respect.

He's ultimately done fine, but it took him a long time to get his groove fully back after ms/hs, and I have to believe that his path would have been quicker, and may have led higher, if it could have started a year later. I'm certain that the decade-and-a-half starting around age 11 would have been a heck of a lot more fun. I know mine was.

Now, I recognize that this sample is personal, biased, and laughably insignificant. And I also happen to be married to the counter-example (my wife started school "on time," in the younger half of her class, skipped an early grade, and dominated both academically and athletically through college nonetheless). But I'll tell you this: We now have a son with a mid-September birthday. He's young enough that redshirting is not an immediate concern, but old enough that we are pretty confident he's both smart and precocious. And there's no way he'll be the youngest kid in his class. We are fortunate enough to be able to give him the gift of time, and we will.

Good luck.

[Anonymous]

OP here. Thank you everyone for your thoughts, especially the PP who posted his own experience (although I know its just ONE person!)

Some of the posters here have hit on what I think is the source of the divide between his father and I: How much should the "social readiness" aspect play into this decision? I feel he's ready in all other respects. Its only the social aspect that worries me, but it worries me quite a bit. His father sees school as...well... school. In other words, he feels school is about academics and learning, and if he's bright enough to do those things reasonably well, we should send him. I take a much broader view of the impact of school. Kids spend so much time there, I think it is an integral part of their emotional and social development..., and it will probably have as big an impact (or maybe bigger?) on my child's overall development... his values, his feelings of self-worth, his social interactions... Often I think these life skills are more important than the subject matter being taught.

Some of you have opined that you don't think that is a good reason to hold back a kid who is otherwise ready. Others have stated that you think its THE most important factor to consider. In any event, I very much value the opinions stated by both camps, and appreciate the respectful dialog.

[Anonymous]

OP, I just thought of something last night.

Can you and your husband imagine what you would do, if your chid had been born 15 days later?

Or if the cut-off date had been arbitrarily 15 days earlier?

Looking at your son, same child, same issues -- would you deliberately ask to have him advanced a year and start kindergarten next year, a year "early", or would you be content to have him stay with his age group?

Because that's what you are essentially talking about -- a difference of 15 days.

I have a close friend whose daughter did miss the cut off point for kindergarten by one week, and she did ask to move her bright child up to kindergarten a year early. One issue, quite frankly, was that they didn't want to pay an extra year of preschool. Also, they had started her in preschool when she was 2, just turning three. SO it felt like she should just graduate with the rest of the kids in her class, that were moving up to Kindy.

The daughter is doing just fine academically, and is now in a 2nd grade G/T program actually, but is shy and introverted, and has had serious bowel issues for the past two years; problems with using the bathroom at school, having accidents, etc. Mom thinks there may well be some social/emotional reasons for her daughter's bowel issues. Her daughter likes school, but is nervous and shy about interacting with children there.

I was very fortunate with my son, who was 4 weeks younger than this girl. He was just as smart as her in preschool, and also as senstive as she was... they were peas in a pod in preschool; had meltdowns, etc., more than other kids. But with a later birthday, there was no question that he'd just do his second year of preschool. He had a lot of social difficulties his first year of preschool, didn't play with kids, etc. The second year was much better, and he is now very social and extroverted in first grade. He is somewhat bored in 1st grade but moves up to the 2nd grade for some subjects.

Homework is pretty easy for him, and he isn't having too many meltdowns compared to when he was younger. I compare how much easier a time he's having socially with my friend's child, because the kids were only 1 month apart.

[Anonymous]

OP, I have a younger brother who was 'redshirted' in the oldfashioned way - my parents opted to have him repeat K. His teachers would have promoted him, and his birth date coincided with the cut off, so he was already the oldest kid in the class. My parents felt strongly that he wasn't thriving socially or academically as he sould be. Now, 30-some-odd years later I can honestly say it was a great decision. He absolutely came into himself and is better adjusted emotionally than any of us; he is quiet and was a pretty neurotic kid, so I can easily imagine he would have been steamrolled had he stayed with his grade. And though he differs from your child in that he was more of a mediocre student, his added maturity helped him do very well in school and graduate Phi Beta Kappa. You know your child best - trust your maternal instincts and don't guilt yourself into worrying about the politics of redshirting etc. BTW, my parents worried about how it might impact his confidence - in the end they bribed him with a Star Wars toy and he never really thought much about having "stayed back" in K.

[Anonymous]

OP, as hard as this decision is to make, NO-ONE is better able to make it with your child's best interests at heart than you are. Small comfort perhaps, but at least you have a choice and it's up to you to exercise it and not for someone else to dictate it to you.

Best of luck to you and your son.