Cambridge UK

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I used to date someone who went to Cambridge, and first of all, it is very restrictive. Not only should your daughter be pretty confident about sticking out her chosen course of study, she needs to pretty confident about sticking it out at Cambridge, because if she does decide to leave after a year, not all of her credit will transfer easily to a program here.

I had another friend who went to a 3-year well regarded, highly respected program at another university, dropped out after a year and found that none of his credits would transfer as anything other than electives.

The other thing is that Cambridge is pretty upper class society in England. And in England, there is stronger sense of class than there is here. Your daughter might be romanticizing studying in England, but when she gets there, she might find that socially it is difficult. I find that upper class British will be very polite to Americans, but they do tend (and this is a generalization) to look down on Americans. It's something that I'm sure is not on your daughter's radar.

If she chooses not to go to Cambridge or if she doesn't get in, another option might be to go to a college here that has a really good study abroad program where she can spend a semester or a year in England. That might be a nice and practical compromise.

Haha, I agree with this. My British relatives are very upper class (my grandparents actually met at Cambridge in the 1920s), but they look down on us Americans cousins in subtle but unmistakeable ways. From the little potshots ("in Britain we recycle, unlike in your country" to "you Americans just don't understand about the Middle East"), there's an element of ignorance and an element of truth. The best you can do is try to fend off the stereotyping and help them see that not all Americans belong to the tea party. A.A. Gill has a funny chapter in his book about America (To America With Love or something like that) about how Britain's elite is reflexively anti-American, and why he disagrees with it.

This doesn't mean it can't be a great learning experience - for the right kind of kid. You might be interested in the experience of Chelsea Clinton, who found she ran up against anti-Americanism often. http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=126376. Of course, Chelsea was there in the middle of the Iraq war, which made things even worse. But when I studied in Europe in the 1980s I ran against a similar anti-Americanism. It doesn't help to say that you agree with them, which I did (re our involvement in Iran in the 1950s, or the possibility that we assassinated a Chilean president, or whatever). They still want to be angry at you, the American student in front of them. It is what it is. For the wrong type of kid it may seem an unfriendly environment. For a kid who has a firm sense of self, you can ignore it and still make friends, and you will definitely learn a lot about the USA and also about them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I used to date someone who went to Cambridge, and first of all, it is very restrictive. Not only should your daughter be pretty confident about sticking out her chosen course of study, she needs to pretty confident about sticking it out at Cambridge, because if she does decide to leave after a year, not all of her credit will transfer easily to a program here.

I had another friend who went to a 3-year well regarded, highly respected program at another university, dropped out after a year and found that none of his credits would transfer as anything other than electives.

The other thing is that Cambridge is pretty upper class society in England. And in England, there is stronger sense of class than there is here. Your daughter might be romanticizing studying in England, but when she gets there, she might find that socially it is difficult. I find that upper class British will be very polite to Americans, but they do tend (and this is a generalization) to look down on Americans. It's something that I'm sure is not on your daughter's radar.

If she chooses not to go to Cambridge or if she doesn't get in, another option might be to go to a college here that has a really good study abroad program where she can spend a semester or a year in England. That might be a nice and practical compromise.

Haha, I agree with this. My British relatives are very upper class (my grandparents actually met at Cambridge in the 1920s), but they look down on us Americans cousins in subtle but unmistakeable ways. From the little potshots ("in Britain we recycle, unlike in your country" to "you Americans just don't understand about the Middle East"), there's an element of ignorance and an element of truth. The best you can do is try to fend off the stereotyping and help them see that not all Americans belong to the tea party. A.A. Gill has a funny chapter in his book about America (To America With Love or something like that) about how Britain's elite is reflexively anti-American, and why he disagrees with it.

This doesn't mean it can't be a great learning experience - for the right kind of kid. You might be interested in the experience of Chelsea Clinton, who found she ran up against anti-Americanism often. http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=126376. Of course, Chelsea was there in the middle of the Iraq war, which made things even worse. But when I studied in Europe in the 1980s I ran against a similar anti-Americanism. It doesn't help to say that you agree with them, which I did (re our involvement in Iran in the 1950s, or the possibility that we assassinated a Chilean president, or whatever). They still want to be angry at you, the American student in front of them. It is what it is. For the wrong type of kid it may seem an unfriendly environment. For a kid who has a firm sense of self, you can ignore it and still make friends, and you will definitely learn a lot about the USA and also about them.

Well, my experience with the British in particular is that it isn't just about politics. There is also a strong sense among the British upper class that most Americans are low class, low born, no matter how liberal they are. Even upper class Americans are considered sort of imposters and wannabes; not *true* upper class. It could be a rude awakening if OP's kid is from Bethesda or Chevy Chase and isn't used to being seen as low class. I actually think it would be easier if OP's kid is working class, because then it isn't such a shock facing stereotypes or being looked down on and having to prove yourself. But for upper class Americans (especially the ones who romanticize British high bred culture), I don't think they realize that the British are not going to consider them "one of them." Of course, working class Brits are very different (and actually much more accepting and friendly and actually curious about Americans). But at Cambridge, it's going to be the upper class mostly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I used to date someone who went to Cambridge, and first of all, it is very restrictive. Not only should your daughter be pretty confident about sticking out her chosen course of study, she needs to pretty confident about sticking it out at Cambridge, because if she does decide to leave after a year, not all of her credit will transfer easily to a program here.

I had another friend who went to a 3-year well regarded, highly respected program at another university, dropped out after a year and found that none of his credits would transfer as anything other than electives.

The other thing is that Cambridge is pretty upper class society in England. And in England, there is stronger sense of class than there is here. Your daughter might be romanticizing studying in England, but when she gets there, she might find that socially it is difficult. I find that upper class British will be very polite to Americans, but they do tend (and this is a generalization) to look down on Americans. It's something that I'm sure is not on your daughter's radar.

If she chooses not to go to Cambridge or if she doesn't get in, another option might be to go to a college here that has a really good study abroad program where she can spend a semester or a year in England. That might be a nice and practical compromise.

Haha, I agree with this. My British relatives are very upper class (my grandparents actually met at Cambridge in the 1920s), but they look down on us Americans cousins in subtle but unmistakeable ways. From the little potshots ("in Britain we recycle, unlike in your country" to "you Americans just don't understand about the Middle East"), there's an element of ignorance and an element of truth. The best you can do is try to fend off the stereotyping and help them see that not all Americans belong to the tea party. A.A. Gill has a funny chapter in his book about America (To America With Love or something like that) about how Britain's elite is reflexively anti-American, and why he disagrees with it.

This doesn't mean it can't be a great learning experience - for the right kind of kid. You might be interested in the experience of Chelsea Clinton, who found she ran up against anti-Americanism often. http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=126376. Of course, Chelsea was there in the middle of the Iraq war, which made things even worse. But when I studied in Europe in the 1980s I ran against a similar anti-Americanism. It doesn't help to say that you agree with them, which I did (re our involvement in Iran in the 1950s, or the possibility that we assassinated a Chilean president, or whatever). They still want to be angry at you, the American student in front of them. It is what it is. For the wrong type of kid it may seem an unfriendly environment. For a kid who has a firm sense of self, you can ignore it and still make friends, and you will definitely learn a lot about the USA and also about them.

Well, my experience with the British in particular is that it isn't just about politics. There is also a strong sense among the British upper class that most Americans are low class, low born, no matter how liberal they are. Even upper class Americans are considered sort of imposters and wannabes; not *true* upper class. It could be a rude awakening if OP's kid is from Bethesda or Chevy Chase and isn't used to being seen as low class. I actually think it would be easier if OP's kid is working class, because then it isn't such a shock facing stereotypes or being looked down on and having to prove yourself. But for upper class Americans (especially the ones who romanticize British high bred culture), I don't think they realize that the British are not going to consider them "one of them." Of course, working class Brits are very different (and actually much more accepting and friendly and actually curious about Americans). But at Cambridge, it's going to be the upper class mostly.

I'm the PP and I agree with this. Even the fact that our American family includes some illustrious Declaration signers doesn't really help because, of course, that was only 200 years ago. But, after all, this isn't limited to Britain: I know many Canadians and while they are lovely people, they consider most Americans hayseeds, too. And let's not get started on the French....

As I said, it is what it is, and all you can do is laugh and try to dispel the stereotypes in small ways.

[Anonymous]

PS, this British attitude towards Americans goes back 200 years, to "Jonathan," the uncultured, immature American nephew of British John Bull.

[Anonymous]

This British attitude pp talked about is why I decided to go to lse over Oxbridge. Lse is more international so you'll have friends from all over the world.

[Anonymous]

London School of Economics?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:London School of Economics?

Yes.

Oxbridge probably offers a better, more intense academic experience (can't be sure since I didn't go) but London and the student population at lse are incredibly diverse, which was educational in and of itself.

[Anonymous]

A good friend was a female Rhodes. She hated Oxford. She very much felt the anti-American attitude. There is also a strong anti-Rhodes attitude. Rooms can be very cold and beds are uncomfortable. She had a miserable two years. It really was one of the most miserable experiences of her life. I walked the gorgeous grounds with her while she told me how much of an "outsider" she felt there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A good friend was a female Rhodes. She hated Oxford. She very much felt the anti-American attitude. There is also a strong anti-Rhodes attitude. Rooms can be very cold and beds are uncomfortable. She had a miserable two years. It really was one of the most miserable experiences of her life. I walked the gorgeous grounds with her while she told me how much of an "outsider" she felt there.

Curious, was this during the period we invaded Afghanistan and Iraq? Anti-Americanism seemed to have reached a fever pitch at that time. Possibly the anger has died down a little by now. But I agree that there will always be some under-current of anti-Americanism (I'm the Jonathan/John Bull poster among other posts).

[Anonymous]

The academics are excellent. Certainly less superficial than the US system where you can wander around frome Indian basket-weaving class to Econ 101 to whatever else, and much more rigorous.

The environment is more upper middle class than upper class. There is some anti-americanism, but less than on the continent, and as with many stereotypes it can be easily deflected once people get to know you, though it can certainly be annoying at times.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The academics are excellent. Certainly less superficial than the US system where you can wander around frome Indian basket-weaving class to Econ 101 to whatever else, and much more rigorous.

The environment is more upper middle class than upper class. There is some anti-americanism, but less than on the continent, and as with many stereotypes it can be easily deflected once people get to know you, though it can certainly be annoying at times.

To be fair, many kids can, and do, take very rigorous courses in the US system. Nobody is forcing your kid to take basket-weaving and, if you don't like it, then tell your kid you won't pay for it. There's no way you can argue that the kids in American engineering, STEM and even the top liberal arts schools are doing "superficial" coursework. And for those with kids who do take 1-2 classes on gender in Hollywood, consider that they are filling up four years of classes, not three years of classes as in Europe.

I also disagree with your comparison re relative rigor. It varies from university to university, just like here in the US. At one well-known European university I attended, footnotes were not the norm - once the prof actually held up a paper with footnotes and said how wonderful it was to see them. I remember another day when a girl sat in the back of class and used her lighter to melt the ties on her backpack while the prof talked. Then an oral exam at the end of the year, not a big deal, and you're done.

I do agree about the upper classes not thronging to Oxbridge. The upper class in Britain either isn't bothering with college, or they're at schools like St. Andrews with Will and Kate. Oxbridge is for the super-intellectuals, and many of the old elite just haven't developed their identities around this sort of intellectualism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A good friend was a female Rhodes. She hated Oxford. She very much felt the anti-American attitude. There is also a strong anti-Rhodes attitude. Rooms can be very cold and beds are uncomfortable. She had a miserable two years. It really was one of the most miserable experiences of her life. I walked the gorgeous grounds with her while she told me how much of an "outsider" she felt there.

That's kinda lame on her part. You only have to be at oxford like 28 weeks out of the year if you are a student there. The rest holiday/study time. You can travel the rest of the time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A good friend was a female Rhodes. She hated Oxford. She very much felt the anti-American attitude. There is also a strong anti-Rhodes attitude. Rooms can be very cold and beds are uncomfortable. She had a miserable two years. It really was one of the most miserable experiences of her life. I walked the gorgeous grounds with her while she told me how much of an "outsider" she felt there.

That's kinda lame on her part. You only have to be at oxford like 28 weeks out of the year if you are a student there. The rest holiday/study time. You can travel the rest of the time.

Though you are defn right about the lack of heat!