For Those of You Who Keep Carping that $200K-250K is a "middle class" salary &

[Anonymous]

Thank you for not cursing. However, why all the anger? I don't feel like the PP came out all Marie Antoinettey about her $200K. She compared what even to her seemed like a lot of money $200K and what her lifestyle is. I know myself, I make what seems like a really high salary (not $200 K, but certainly high by national standards), and I really don't have a lot to show for what seems like a ridiculous amount of money on paper. I think that's the point the person was making (not, "I'm so poor! I only have $200k!"). I know I am extremely fortunate with my salary. But I also know I live in a 2 bedroom townhouse in DC, I only take car-trip vacations, I don't go out to eat, I drive a used car, and all my furniture came from IKEA. All my money goes to the mortgage (for the 2 bedroom townhouse!) and my kid's private school, which I choose because the public school can't accomodate his learning needs. Obviously I could make other choices.

Anyway, these boards are for discussing things. More and more there are people like you who just shoot off obscenities or mean retorts. You had every opportunity to express things nicely, but for some reason you have incredible hatred to someone who makes a lot of money and wonders where her money goes. You rant about it being her bad choices when you know nothing about her or her choices. Maybe you have made bad choices. You certainly have made bad language choices.

[Anonymous]

Did anyone see the tax plans broken down in the Parade magazine today? No one is saving much under McCain unless you are a millionaire.

[Anonymous]

That is the irony with the Republicans. Somehow, they manage to convince all these poor people in the rural bible-belt that they are going to be better off with them. They never are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OK fine. No cursing or shouting. Here's my point:

You people that think you have a middle class lifestyle because you have a 3-4 bedroom house and a commute? You've made choices and are just complaining about them.

We make quite a bit less that 200K. Four years ago, we bought a house with three bedrooms, 2 full bathrooms, 2 half bathrooms and a finished basement and patio. More than enough space and a very safe neighborhood. It takes me 5 minutes to get to work in SW.

The house is a townhouse. It does not have a lot of frills. Original kitchen (1981). Actually, original everything except for the new floors and carpet we put in. And I know that by any NATIONAL (not just REGIONAL) standard, I am affluent. Even compared to the rest of the city or region as a whole, I am affluent. And I am lucky.

If you want a detached family home with a big new kitchen and lots of bells and whistles and a huge jacuzzi tub out in Vienna or Chantilly or Columbia, and maybe one parent stays home and the other one is willing to endure a 30-60 minute commute, that is your choice. That is your privilege. But don't tell me that makes you working middle class. Because that is an insult.

The people described in that article are working middle class. When you are working two jobs, and sleeping 5 hours a night, and not going on any vacations, then you can call yourself working middle class.

But I don't want to hear a lot of complaining about one beach vacation per year and clipping coupons and shopping at Target and getting movie passes. That's not middle class. That is savvy.

Anyone making a quarter of a million dollars a year should feel a moral obligation to be taxed more. If you don't feel that moral obligation, that's your own conscience. But I suggest you just be quiet instead of characterizing yourself as working middle class.

Not one curse word.

So much better of an explanation, OP, than the earlier statements. Thanks!
Yep, between my husband and me, we make just over 200,000 and I feel dang rich! But then I live in a working-class/poor neighborhood and I can see how much more we have than my neighbors. Really makes a difference when you have a different reference group. I would feel so poor if I lived in upper NW.

[Anonymous]

PP, good thing you DON'T live in that upper NW neighborhood because the cursing poster would have jumped all over you (since you said you would FEEL poor).

I work with the truly poor (not the one in the video, but those who live in developing countries where sending children to school is sometimes not an option). I do understand how incredibly fortunate I am. Americans in general are incredibly fortunate. Half of all people in the world live in poverty (living on less than $2.50 a day). About a quarter of adults in the world are illiterate. About 1 in 6 people do not have access to clean water for drinking. About 1 in three do not have access to basic sanitation. In regions like Sub-Saharan Africa and South Asia, 1 in 3 children is malnourished.

Anyway you look at the world, we are rich beyond our right.

[Anonymous]

What does the poster mean by "working middle class"? There is "working class" and there is "middle class" and they are two different things.

[Anonymous]

I don't think the poster is all that knowledgeable (the one who wrote...I mean cussed...about working middle class). Really had a holier than thou attitude. I could ask her why she is complaining about having a 1981 kitchen (or even mentioning it). A third of the world doesn't even have plumbing. Why is she mentioning that all she replaced in the house were some floors and carpets? She could have used that money and all the rest from her frivolous expenditures to adopt a child who is hard to place. Somehow because she acknowledges she is fortunate, we're all supposed to admire her. Spare me!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: I make what seems like a really high salary (not $200 K, but certainly high by national standards), and I really don't have a lot to show for what seems like a ridiculous amount of money on paper. I think that's the point the person was making (not, "I'm so poor! I only have $200k!"). I know I am extremely fortunate with my salary. But I also know I live in a 2 bedroom townhouse in DC, I only take car-trip vacations, I don't go out to eat, I drive a used car, and all my furniture came from IKEA. All my money goes to the mortgage (for the 2 bedroom townhouse!) and my kid's private school, which I choose because the public school can't accomodate his learning needs. Obviously I could make other choices.

I don't think you have taken the time to compare your lifestyle to that of the woman's in the article.

How is a society like this fair? And I'm not talking about other countries; I want to look at ours.

I have seen post after post on this board with people saying that they do not want to vote Obama because 250K is a middle class salary and they have no money to spare for the common good. That was the point of this post.

One of the PPs said her life was "middle class" because someone in the family had a long commute and they clipped coupons. That was the point of this post.

I mentioned my house to illustrate the fact that you don't have to have a big commute if you don't want to. You can live in a nice part of the District and not have a commute. Some people choose to have a long commute so that they can come home to very well appointed houses (that probably cost only a little more than my modest house in the District). Commuting does not = middle class.

I mentioned the particulars of my house to give the reader a sense of the trade-offs. I am very happy with my choices. I don't ever want to commute more than 5 minutes. I hate waking up early and I hate traffic and I hate public transportation. Especially the metro with its stench and those germ-ridden poles and my fear of terrorism at Metro Center.

Why did we fix the floors and the carpet? Because we had a big flood and the first floor and basement were badly damaged. The insurance paid for it, and my new wooden floor is beautiful. And my son thinks our basement is "comfortable!" Thank you very much.

One poster said that her 200K income here would be comparable to 80K in Ohio. Maybe so. But that's not want the working middle class in Ohio make.

We are affluent, and we should show some humility.

I used to make fun of white people living in rural areas. I thought they were racist and I didn't understand the tensions. I could not fathom why a working white middle class person would not enthusiastically vote Obama. I am ashamed of myself for that. I was naive. George Packard put an end to that.

We are affluent. Show some humility.

[Anonymous]

Stop telling OTHER people what to do. I'm okay with all my decisions and I don't need some person who watches one stinking video on the rural poor who has suddenly found religion telling me what things I have done wrong. Examine yourself. I do. I don't want to hear about your flood or your carpet or your perceptions of rural racism. Stop going through the litany of your so called acceptable decisions as if that gives you the right to curse at someone you don't know. I think you must have problems at home because it's not nice (or civilized) to just go on a thread and attack someone. I can tell you I certainly am not going to take any advice from someone who used to "make fun" of white people living in rural areas. I don't know why your shame does not apply to the same scathing manner in which you judge people now.

[Anonymous]

It's not a video, you dumbshit. It's a very well-written piece written by a well-respected journalist and published in a respected publication. I am an atheist.

My post had nothing to do with what choices are acceptable and what are not. It is the way people choose to characterize the choices that bother me ("oh, i have such a long commute to my big house, i'm middle class")

And I certainly do have the right to curse. At anyone I want to. You dumbfuck.

[Anonymous]

I hope you don't use that potty-mouth when you have to apologize to Jesus Christ for your atheism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OK fine. No cursing or shouting. Here's my point:

You people that think you have a middle class lifestyle because you have a 3-4 bedroom house and a commute? You've made choices and are just complaining about them.

We make quite a bit less that 200K. Four years ago, we bought a house with three bedrooms, 2 full bathrooms, 2 half bathrooms and a finished basement and patio. More than enough space and a very safe neighborhood. It takes me 5 minutes to get to work in SW.

The house is a townhouse. It does not have a lot of frills. Original kitchen (1981). Actually, original everything except for the new floors and carpet we put in. And I know that by any NATIONAL (not just REGIONAL) standard, I am affluent. Even compared to the rest of the city or region as a whole, I am affluent. And I am lucky.

If you want a detached family home with a big new kitchen and lots of bells and whistles and a huge jacuzzi tub out in Vienna or Chantilly or Columbia, and maybe one parent stays home and the other one is willing to endure a 30-60 minute commute, that is your choice. That is your privilege. But don't tell me that makes you working middle class. Because that is an insult.

The people described in that article are working middle class. When you are working two jobs, and sleeping 5 hours a night, and not going on any vacations, then you can call yourself working middle class.
But I don't want to hear a lot of complaining about one beach vacation per year and clipping coupons and shopping at Target and getting movie passes. That's not middle class. That is savvy.

Anyone making a quarter of a million dollars a year should feel a moral obligation to be taxed more. If you don't feel that moral obligation, that's your own conscience. But I suggest you just be quiet instead of characterizing yourself as working middle class.

Not one curse word.

That is not middle class - that is poor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's not a video, you dumbshit. It's a very well-written piece written by a well-respected journalist and published in a respected publication. I am an atheist.

My post had nothing to do with what choices are acceptable and what are not. It is the way people choose to characterize the choices that bother me ("oh, i have such a long commute to my big house, i'm middle class")

And I certainly do have the right to curse. At anyone I want to. You dumbfuck. "

I know who George Packard is. I was responding to the video posted. So be it, George Packard moved you. Anyway, the point is you did used to make fun of white rural people. So you're a dumbass. A dumbass with a new carpet.

At the very least, please don't associate yourself with Obama. This kind of language and or ignorance is usually reserved for the McCain crowd.

[Anonymous]

I posted no video. I know you're a little slow, and a bit jealous of my new hardwood floor and carpet, but try to stay up to speed with the rest of us. Again: NO VIDEO.

[Anonymous]

I am not jealous of your hardwood floors. Remember, I make the big bucks. I have hardwood floors AND a new kitchen. But all IKEA furniture and only 2 bedrooms. And I am not slow. I went to Penn too.